[powerbook867]

It is a beautiful looking machine and while the specs are nice, I don't understand why the top of the heep machine doesn't have a Quad core processor in it. I know there are only a handful of manufacturers building them now, but on a pro laptop, shouldn't it at lease be an option?

I personally could use the horsepower and it is about the only thing that would swing me to upgrade...

Also, when the frak are DDR3 4Gb upgrades coming down in price? I'd love to upgrade my Macbook to 6Gb but wowsa, that is a lot of coin... Guess we need more pc manufacturers to go to DDR3 to motivate the memory manufacturers to up production..

[amazing]

So, the 17" has a $50 anti-glare option, but not the new 15".

Instead, TechRestore has found a market-niche, and is offering it for $199.

http://www.techrestore.com/xcart/pro...cat=273&page=1

They remove the glossy screen, you get a new non-glossy screen, they remove the glass, and you get a new black bezel.

[Simon]

Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot 

Um. What the hell are you doing dis-/reconnecting your MacBook to mains every few minutes?

The way Apple defines a battery cycle that would get you nowhere close to ten a day!

[schuey100]

Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot 

That's almost ten cycles A DAY!

Um. What the hell are you doing dis-/reconnecting your MacBook to mains every few minutes? The current batteries are designed to last 300+x cycles - that should be close to two years or over!

It's not a lot really is it?

Wake up - Connect
Leave home - Disconnect
Get to work - Connect

Lunch - Disconnect
Back from lunch - Connect
Leave work - Disconnect
Get home - Connect
Move upstairs to the home office after a bit of Facebook downstairs Connect

That's 5 cycles already. Then you have a couple of meetings that's another 2 cycles. You're at 7. When you factor in some high CPU work when you're off the power supply then you have another cycle or two. I don't lug my power supply everywhere I go and I have a laptop because I'm very mobile.

[driven]

Isn't a cycle a full discharge / recharge? I don't think unplugging and plugging it back in counts as a cycle.

[Simon]

Originally Posted by schuey100 

It's not a lot really is it?
...
That's 5 cycles already. Then you have a couple of meetings that's another 2 cycles. You're at 7. When you factor in some high CPU work when you're off the power supply then you have another cycle or two. I don't lug my power supply everywhere I go and I have a laptop because I'm very mobile.

Nonsense. Those are not cycles. This is the proper definition of a cycle:

A charge cycle means using all of the battery’s power, but that doesn’t necessarily mean a single charge. For instance, you could use your notebook for an hour or more one day, using half its power, and then recharge it fully. If you did the same thing the next day, it would count as one charge cycle, not two, so you may take several days to complete a cycle.

[schuey100]

Originally Posted by Simon 

Nonsense. Those are not cycles. This is the proper definition of a cycle:

A charge cycle means using all of the battery’s power, but that doesn’t necessarily mean a single charge. For instance, you could use your notebook for an hour or more one day, using half its power, and then recharge it fully. If you did the same thing the next day, it would count as one charge cycle, not two, so you may take several days to complete a cycle.

'Nonsense'? That's a rather harsh way of making a point isn't it? Why be so dismissive? I do wonder why I continue to come to these forums, so many others have left over the years because members here are unable to show others even a modicum of respect. Oh well.

[amazing]

schuey: be ye not so thin-skinned...instead, download coconutbattery which will give you the battery load cycle count.

[Simon]

It wasn't an attempt at being dismissive. You were spreading misinformation and you were corrected. Nothing personal.

[driven]

When did 'Nonsense' become an inflammatory word?

[Spheric Harlot]

Originally Posted by Simon 

Nonsense. Those are not cycles. This is the proper definition of a cycle:

A charge cycle means using all of the battery’s power, but that doesn’t necessarily mean a single charge. For instance, you could use your notebook for an hour or more one day, using half its power, and then recharge it fully. If you did the same thing the next day, it would count as one charge cycle, not two, so you may take several days to complete a cycle.

Something doesn't make sense here:

If that is what the System Profiler declares a charge cycle, then there is NO WAY that 250 charge cycles could have accumulated since September 27, 2008, given his described usage.

Yes, I am aware that that quote comes from Apple's own page.


It is my understanding that what breaks batteries is the fact that every time you discharge/recharge a battery - even for a few minutes -, the electrical chemistry inside the battery changes completely, and that THIS CHEMISTRY CHANGE is what eventually deteriorates the internal makeup of the battery.

IOW: The ideal way to kill your battery is to re-/dis-/re-/dis-/reconnect it all the time.

[schuey100]

Why am I going off topic and arguing here?

To get back on topic, a built in battery has certainly stopped me from upgrading my 17". I might go for the 15" though but we'll see what the wife says

[voicebox]

Originally Posted by Simon 

Remove ten Phillips 00 screws to pop off the bottom case shell. Beneath you will probably find the easily accessible two RAM slots and HDD. It's the same screwdriver you need to swap the RAM or disk on the current 15" MBP.

Hi Simon,
After a visit to the Apple Store in Regent Street yesterday, I was told that any RAM that needed swapping/installing in the new 17" MBP will have to be done at your nearest Apple store or elsewhere by an Apple Certified techie. The Apple store will do the job for free, although you will have to buy the RAM from them! They will not install third party RAM for free or for a fee ..!
I was also told that if I choose to swap the RAM myself I will run the risk of invalidating any Apple Care warranty I might have on the MBP - plus any guarantee the RAM might have if the install fails!!!
Now all the above seems a little draconian, considering that they (the Apple Store) will be not receiving a shipment of the new 17" MBP's for another ten days, therefore how do they know what the 'official Apple party line' will be on this?
voicebox

[Simon]

Yeah, as I said we don't know the details yet. Apple hasn't released the user manual for the new 17" yet. We'll probably have to wait until they do to get real confirmation.

[voicebox]

Originally Posted by Simon 

Yeah, as I said we don't know the details yet. Apple hasn't released the user manual for the new 17" yet. We'll probably have to wait until they do to get real confirmation.

Thanks for the update Simon.
voicebox

[ctt1wbw]

Are motherboards user replaceable on macbooks?

[Atheist]

Originally Posted by ctt1wbw 

Are motherboards user replaceable on macbooks?

With the right tools, skill, and patience... yes. But it will void your warranty.

[ctt1wbw]

So why aren't people making such a fuss over that, but they are about the battery? Sorry, the battery thing isn't a deal breaker for me, IF I had the money to buy a new Macbook Pro. Which I don't. So why bitch about it? Seems like EVERYONE who uses a Mac is waiting to buy one, then they see the battery thing, and then the bitching starts. Give it a rest.

[Atheist]

Originally Posted by ctt1wbw 

So why aren't people making such a fuss over that, but they are about the battery? Sorry, the battery thing isn't a deal breaker for me, IF I had the money to buy a new Macbook Pro. Which I don't. So why bitch about it? Seems like EVERYONE who uses a Mac is waiting to buy one, then they see the battery thing, and then the bitching starts. Give it a rest.

Keep in mind there are people who need to use their computers for an extended period between charging. Without the ability to quickly swap in a second battery, they are at a disadvantage.

Count me in with the bitches. I think Apple's form over function mantra is a little tired.

[ctt1wbw]

I was using my laptops for school, too. But I never noticed anything about the battery. I am very anal with how I treat my computers. My G3 Wallstreet lasted me about 6 years. The battery broke when I took it out for a good cleaning, so I had to order a new one. If I hadn't taken it out, it would have lasted, too.

I was cleaning the whole computer, took the keyboard out and everything.

[Simon]

Originally Posted by Atheist 

Keep in mind there are people who need to use their computers for an extended period between charging. Without the ability to quickly swap in a second battery, they are at a disadvantage.

Swapping a battery after four hours of use is not the same thing as getting eight hours out of one battery. Let's wait till we see how good battery life really is with the new 17" until we judge its adequacy.

[ctt1wbw]

Originally Posted by Simon 

Swapping a battery after four hours of use is not the same thing as getting eight hours out of one battery. Let's wait till we see how good battery life really is with the new 17" until we judge its adequacy.

No, I want to judge its failure right now. I predict Apple will go under in a year after spending billions replacing worn out batteries.

[amazing]

Ahh! but just think: what if Apple gave you a very long lasting removable battery? And then you had a second very long lasting battery to put in? Close to Nirvana, maybe?

It's all the what-ifs? that kill the built-in battery scenario...

[Simon]

Originally Posted by amazing 

Ahh! but just think: what if Apple gave you a very long lasting removable battery? And then you had a second very long lasting battery to put in?

You can't have your cake and eat it too.

[fisherKing]

Originally Posted by Simon 

You can't have your cake and eat it too.

i dunno, i had a piece of cake this morning, and ate it too...

it IS funny, no one's even gotten a chance to check out the battery life on the 17", and we're all in a panic. i'd say this thread should re-awaken AFTER some users here have had a chance to use the new mbp... (but just my opinion, of course...). 8 hours on one charge, instead of carrying a second battery, and swapping after 4 hours, seems a good deal (potentially)...

[amazing]

Originally Posted by fisherKing 

i dunno, i had a piece of cake this morning, and ate it too...

it IS funny, no one's even gotten a chance to check out the battery life on the 17", and we're all in a panic. i'd say this thread should re-awaken AFTER some users here have had a chance to use the new mbp... (but just my opinion, of course...). 8 hours on one charge, instead of carrying a second battery, and swapping after 4 hours, seems a good deal (potentially)...

Shucks, you're taking the fun out of all the polemics!

And of course you can get your cake and eat it too: Anybody remember the Mac laptop from pre-historic times, where you could remove the optical drive and insert a second battery? Well, Apple, in a fit of unpredictable practicality, designed that piece of cake, and it was a hit!

[driven]

I'm glad Apple makes design changes that often give (and sometimes take away) good stuff.

If they didn't this would be a VERY boring forum.

[fisherKing]

Originally Posted by driven 

I'm glad Apple makes design changes that often give (and sometimes take away) good stuff.

If they didn't this would be a VERY boring forum.

overall, i'd rather have consistently-great macs...

[Spheric Harlot]

The new MacBook Pro sucks.

[ctt1wbw]

[QuadG5Man]

Apple will replace the battery for $179 according to macworld.com

[Simon]

$179 for the replacement of a 95Wh battery compared to the $129 I paid for my last 60Wh MBP battery sounds like a fair deal.

IMHO the real question is then if they make sure their stores and AASPs have enough parts and techs available so people can have this done on the spot. Going to a shop and having it replaced within 15 minutes is fine. Having to send it in and be w/o it for a couple of days is not.

[dpicardi]

Originally Posted by chabig 

The battery is almost certainly removable and replaceable with just a few screws. No biggie. Plus, if you're going to carry around a spare battery you might as well just carry around an external battery.

Within 6 months of release someone with come out with a plug in external battery option for the 1 in 10 times you actually need to use a second battery. Problem solved. I truly believe people who are saying won't buy it because of this really were never in the market for this machine.

The battery is not a reason not to purchase this machine. The price, well, that is another matter.

It looks gorgeous and it truly appears to be a desktop replacement for a video and photo pro.

[dpicardi]

Originally Posted by amazing 

schuey: be ye not so thin-skinned...instead, download coconutbattery which will give you the battery load cycle count.

Thanks for the info. I now know all about my Macbook Pros battery.
Battery Load cycles 54
Age of mac 19 months
Current battery capacity 88% of original

Amazing. True I don't use my laptop nearly as much in the last year since I got my Mac Pro, but it is always plugged in. Based on this info the 1000 cycles of the new 17inch MBP is more than enough.

[Spheric Harlot]

Originally Posted by dpicardi 

Within 6 months of release someone with come out with a plug in external battery option for the 1 in 10 times you actually need to use a second battery. Problem solved.

The MagSafe connector is patented, and Apple isn't licensing it out.

NOBODY makes MacBook power adapters to ANYTHING, except Apple.

[Big Mac]

There's at least one external battery solution for Apple laptops on the market right now. It's expensive, but it exists.

[dpicardi]

Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot 

The MagSafe connector is patented, and Apple isn't licensing it out.

NOBODY makes MacBook power adapters to ANYTHING, except Apple.

Really? If so good point.

You know I almost added that it would be Apple making this external battery. Seems like a no brainer. I think if enough people cry out for it, it will likely happen. Apple is stubborn, but not stupid. If they determined that 30% of buyers were holding out because of battery concerns they will address it.

[Simon]

Originally Posted by dpicardi 

It looks gorgeous and it truly appears to be a desktop replacement for a video and photo pro.

Nice you like it. But you should probably find that flame-retardent suite. You will likely see some flames coming your way for that desktop replacement comment. I'd be surprised not to see anyone jump in an rant about how it doesn't have an internal RAID5, no SLI graphics, etc. How could any serious professional ever get any work done without that?

[driven]

... or a built in wacom tablet. LOL

[Spheric Harlot]

Originally Posted by Big Mac 

There's at least one external battery solution for Apple laptops on the market right now. It's expensive, but it exists.

Huh: http://www.batterygeek.net/BG-19-24-...atterygeek.htm

Indeed.
I stand corrected.

How do they do that?

[driven]

Very nice find

[amazing]

About the Battery Geek adapter: sounds like a Apple intellectual property infringement lawsuit candidate. Plus, the quality issues?

"The Battery Geek Portable Power Station has much to recommend it. The lithium ion unit fulfills its raison d'être, which is to provide super long-lasting energy as an external battery for a laptop computer or other device. It comes in a sturdy, stylish package. The device is heavy duty and looks well made. Its sole problem is rather severe for this user and other likely readers of this piece: it doesn’t work with MacBooks or MacBook Pros. Or more precisely, its knock-off MagSafe adapter is so poorly executed that it cannot be counted on."
"Update (2007–08–13): Since preparing the above review, I have learned that Battery Geek has released a second-generation knock off MagSafe connector. To ensure that ATPM readers have as much information as possible in making their purchasing decisions, I’ve taken a look at this new iteration of the problematic component. The second version, after being connected and disconnected repeatedly and from every angle, holds up just fine. The tip is mounted securely in its plastic housing. I can recommend it without hesitation. (In the interest of full disclosure, I should say I tested the piece only for its ability to hook up to the MacBook Pro satisfactorily and sturdily; I already gave the actual battery to my brother, who took it half-way around the world—but the battery itself was always fine.) To their credit, Battery Geek recognized the problem with their earlier design. It is too bad they didn’t contact purchasers on their own initiative, but customers can contact them to get the new version free of charge."
http://www.atpm.com/13.08/magsafe.shtml

[Karlotta]

I posted this on MacRumors as well. Thought it made sense to go in this thread on MacNN.

I had seen this debated in several threads and have been wondering about it myself. Basically, what is Apple's stance regarding user-replaceable/serviceable parts in the new 17-inch unibody MBP? Are they like the MB and 15-inch MBP, user-replaceable/serviceable? Or, because of the integrated battery design, are they, like the MB Air, not user-replaceable/serviceable. Usually the definitive answer would come from the Support pages on the Apple web site and the 17-inch user manual. Those don't appear to be available at this point. However, the Apple web site page that promotes the 17-inch machine states clearly:

The 17-inch MacBook Pro supports up to 8GB of 1066MHz DDR3 memory and comes with a large 320GB hard drive,4 so there’s plenty of room for your photo and video projects and other files. It also offers an optional 128GB or 256GB solid-state drive, which has no moving parts for enhanced durability. And for burning DVDs, it includes an ultrafast 8x SuperDrive. You can upgrade the memory and hard drive yourself, or take it to an Apple Authorized Service Provider. (emphasis added)

from: Apple MacBook Pro 17-inch Features


I had not seen this referred to in any of the posts that address this topic. So, if worry about the replacement or upgrade of hard drives/ram is of concern to someone, that concern would seem to be unwarranted. It appears that it's only slightly harder to change out the HD/ram in the new machine than in the 15-inch MBP and the MB.

Cheers,
Karlotta

[Simon]

Good find!

Another indication that swapping RAM and HDDs should be no problem at all on the new 17".

[voicebox]

Originally Posted by Karlotta 

I posted this on MacRumors as well. Thought it made sense to go in this thread on MacNN.

I had seen this debated in several threads and have been wondering about it myself. Basically, what is Apple's stance regarding user-replaceable/serviceable parts in the new 17-inch unibody MBP? Are they like the MB and 15-inch MBP, user-replaceable/serviceable? Or, because of the integrated battery design, are they, like the MB Air, not user-replaceable/serviceable. Usually the definitive answer would come from the Support pages on the Apple web site and the 17-inch user manual. Those don't appear to be available at this point. However, the Apple web site page that promotes the 17-inch machine states clearly:


from: Apple MacBook Pro 17-inch Features




I had not seen this referred to in any of the posts that address this topic. So, if worry about the replacement or upgrade of hard drives/ram is of concern to someone, that concern would seem to be unwarranted. It appears that it's only slightly harder to change out the HD/ram in the new machine than in the 15-inch MBP and the MB.

Cheers,
Karlotta

Well spotted Karlotta, an excellent find - and thanks for the link, reading it certainly put my mind at ease.
It always pays to read the smaller print!!
voicebox

[phoenix78]

Is the non user replaceable battery that big a deal?

I would imagine the user swappable battery in previous models was desirable because the battery did not last so long and you could put a spare in if you needed extra juice.

But since it lasts about twice as long as previous batteries it negates the need for a spare battery.

If a battery goes bad, in any machine, you would still be without a battery until you get a spare... so is it that big a deal to have to take it in to a service store to get it swapped out? Maybe if the service store had a backlog of repairs you could wait a few days instead of just getting a part delivered... But i dont imagine it being that big a deal in most cases...

[lschwitzer3]

The proof of the pudding will be that transatlantic flight and working on a project until the screen goes blank. At this instant, all I have read is chatter based upon unproven marketing claims and suppositions not based upon proven reality. Once they hit the street, let's hear the feed back from real world operations!

Since Apple's advertisements have stated that there is user replaceable memory and hard drives, they cannot legally retract that statement as one would could postulate that statement was the inducement to purchase the product and the purchaser was therefore mislead by false advertising.

YMMV

[Big Mac]

There's no reason to think they would be lying about the user access to memory and hard drive.

[Spheric Harlot]

Originally Posted by lschwitzer3 

Since Apple's advertisements have stated that there is user replaceable memory and hard drives, they cannot legally retract that statement as one would could postulate that statement was the inducement to purchase the product and the purchaser was therefore mislead by false advertising.

Why would they?

They've stuck a ****ing plastic PULL TAB onto the hard drive for easy removal. And the hard drive has been user replaceable on the MacBooks for nigh three years now. RAM for over ten years.

[CharlesS]

Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot 

And the hard drive has been user replaceable on the MacBooks for nigh three years now.

Did you mean the regular MacBooks? Because on the MBP it's been more like three months.