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adept1 · Jun 21, 2006, 03:15 AM

On the subject of ultra-portables... Check out the Futitsu Lifebook P7120:

10.6 Wide Screen XGA resolution
1.28Kg weight
DVD burner! (or replace with a second battery for 11 hours of use!)
Optional port replicator (WHY DOES APPLE NEVER USE THESE?!?)
SD card slot
Firewire

I've always loved the Lifebook P series. Just wanted to show you that the ultraportable form factor can be quite flexible. Certainly not cheap though.

But is there really a high demand for an Apple machine like this? I suspect not.

icruise · Jun 21, 2006, 07:40 AM

The new Vaio TX3s that just came out in Japan are pretty impressive. They even managed to get a dual-layer DVD burner in there!

http://www.engadget.com/2006/06/12/s...neup-launched/

slugslugslug · Jun 21, 2006, 09:49 AM

Dang. While neither Fujitsu nor Sony come close to Apple's design (the MacBook is the best-looking notebook I've ever seen (IMHO of course), in either color), those options are all pretty nice overall for combination of spec/weight/size. Almost got me thinking about doing that thing we're not supposed to talk about on these forums.

Frans · Jun 21, 2006, 04:28 PM

Originally Posted by Icruise

The new Vaio TX3s that just came out in Japan are pretty impressive. They even managed to get a dual-layer DVD burner in there!

Very nice specs indeed, 10 hours worktime and 1.27 kg, that's really light! I would prefer the screen a bit larger and it would be great to have a built in EV-DO card...

TheoCryst · Jun 21, 2006, 05:35 PM

Originally Posted by slugslugslug

Almost got me thinking about doing that thing we're not supposed to talk about on these forums.

Just so you know, I promise you that it's nigh-impossible to do "that thing" on a Sony VAIO.

...I mean, WHAT THING???

icruise · Jun 21, 2006, 10:40 PM

As nice as a lot of these laptops are, I just can't get past the fact that they run Windows. It's true that it's not that hard to use a Windows laptop in conjunction with a Mac as your main computer. Most people use ultraportables for three things: web surfing, email, and Office. So you might think that you wouldn't lose all that much by using Windows. But I bought a Windows subnotebook when I was living in Japan a while back (the Fujitsu Loox S5-53W) and I regretted it.

While the machine itself was actually not bad, it came with Windows ME (Mistake Edition) installed and there was a 50% chance that it would hang up when going to sleep -- a pretty major problem for a portable that you're meant to be taking with you all the time. Fujitsu had an upgrade program, so I upgraded it to Windows XP, which solved most of the stability problems, but XP is pretty painful with only 128MB of (non-upgradeable) RAM. There was also the problem that the external CD-ROM was PC-card based, which meant that you couldn't boot from it, which caused me no end of trouble when I wanted to reinstall Windows or install Linux (never did get that to work properly).

Admittedly, a lot of these problems have probably been solved now that machines are faster and have better connectivity options, but I still found myself really missing a lot of the software that I had grown accustomed to on my main Mac. Mac OS X is just so much better for me and makes me so much more productive. That's why it's so frustrating that there aren't any Macs that really fit what I want in a portable.

slugslugslug · Jun 21, 2006, 11:12 PM

Originally Posted by Icruise

it's so frustrating that there aren't any Macs that really fit what I want in a portable.

Yeah, I hear you. The "thing" I referred to wasn't settling for Windows, I'll tell you that much.

Yakov · Jun 22, 2006, 12:07 AM

the "thing":

Simon · Jun 22, 2006, 01:59 AM

And that thing is supposed to be closer to a MacBook Light than Apple's MacBook? Riiiiight.

icruise · Jun 22, 2006, 03:24 PM

I believe he is referring to using dark juju to get Mac OS X to run on a non-Apple machine.

slugslugslug · Jun 22, 2006, 04:04 PM

I was gonna point this out to Simon (but continuing the roundabout not-actually-saying-what-"it"-is trend), but then I guessed that maybe the

meant he was playing along. He'd certainly have to think Yakov was really dumb, for Yakov to think that a desktop is a good substitute for a MacBook mini. And I don't think Simon thinks Yakov is that dumb.

icruise · Jun 22, 2006, 04:46 PM

You're probably right, but I can imagine some people reading along and not understanding what the heck we're talking about.

Simon · Jun 23, 2006, 01:00 AM

Originally Posted by slugslugslug

He'd certainly have to think Yakov was really dumb, for Yakov to think that a desktop is a good substitute for a MacBook mini. And I don't think Simon thinks Yakov is that dumb.

Yeah, I don't the Simon thinks Yakov's that dumb. I think Simon was just fooling around, see ->

TheoCryst · Jun 23, 2006, 01:33 AM

Oh, and to clear things up with the uninitiated: the image Yakov posted is part of the logo for the OSx86 Project. Don't know what that is? Google is your friend!

Frans · Jun 27, 2006, 03:31 PM

On the stability of the Windows subnotebooks:

I had three different Vaio's: one that was under 1 kilo with a very small 7" screen, one TX (first edition, 10,4" screen, 1,4 kg) and one S-series (13" screen and all, 2kg). All three were great machines in terms of looks and weight. However, all three had systematic problems:
- the Sony-specific software for special features (wifi, BT, scroll wheel, webcam, battery life) were horrible, terrible interface, terribly slow

- the machines would turn extremely slow within two months after purchase, due to all kinds of spy-ware, software conflicts, etc (yes, I had a spyware-detector etc, but it didn't work well enough and took a lot of memory and also made the machine slow...)

- cleaning everything up, newly installing the OS would help for a while, but that would take a days work and only last for two months

- regular crashes of different programs or extremely sluggish performance

So after all these problems I decided to switch to Mac, simply because it works much better. It's great to have a light and sleak laptop, but it's extremely frustrating to loose so much time and energy because it's just not working as it should....

Frans · Jul 22, 2006, 06:54 PM

Hi there,

Any news on a Mac sub notebook? I haven't been able to follow the rumours the last month, so if anyone has new info please let us all know...

kaido · Jul 22, 2006, 07:07 PM

If they could shave off another pound or two from the MacBook I'd be estatic

fox-orian · 02:38 AM

Originally Posted by chipchen

I'd prefer an ULTRA portable.

- 10.4" Widescreen LCD
- NO optical drive
- Boots from flash or 60GB iPod size drive
- Touch screen capability (but not a tablet)
- Built-in WiFi and Bluetooth
- Maybe 90% size keyboard or something
- FireWire 400 (but not likely)
- USB 2.0 (at least three)
- Mini-DVI out
- NO modem, yes ethernet port
- Headphone port
- No expansion slot
- One slot for memory to save space (will be upgradeable to the 2GB chips)
- MAYBE built-in isight.

This could easily weight in at about 3 pounds... doesn't have to be a Core Duo.. could be Core Solo. Main purpose could be for students, professionals that need ultra portability, internet browser around the house or business, and eventually control the Mac-centered media house (maybe through a Mac mediahouse utility app).

It will be able to push media from one mac in the house (that has downloaded movies from itunes) through to another device (maybe a new AirPort Express with video).

The utility app will be able to use the touch screen feature to show all the media on a connected mac network (and PCs too). When 802.11g gets an upgrade, it will finally have faster throughput to stream better quality video, and the AirPort Express can be upgraded to streaming video. Or maybe by then we can just hook up the Mac mini to the TV using HDMI and the Mac mini can be used to pull the media from another Mac in the house (much like a modded xBox can show video from a PC streaming video.

This MacBook mini or MacBook Lite or whatever would not necessarily be for full functioning computing. Sure, it will probably be able to edit a few minute clips in iMovie etc, but it's main purpose is a ultra portable and a media house (trying not to use the term media center) control admin.

Anyway... just my wishes...

Spot-on, man. I would love to see more applications for iPod-sized MicroHDD's. For an ultra portable, a MicroHDD would be ULTRA space/power efficient, and you wouldnt care too much about its speed because it would be mostly for office/class/work/net type situations. I'd ike to see no disc drive, but apple would definately add one. They consider optical drives to be a complete necessity, as Steve Jobs pointed out in a previous keynote. [then again, anything he says loses its validity after one year...]

But a MacBook Mini would be a perfect companion to fit the missing block!

Professional Level Desktop:
PowerMac G5
[This will of course become a quad-core intel based system someday once Core Duo's turn 64-bit... but what will they call it? I'd like to see the Intel PowerMac G5 made more affordable by a small margin, and perhaps called just the "Mac". I can forsee a name "Mac Pro," but it wouldnt make much sense since there's no base-Mac. Just the name "Mac" would sort of be a setting stage for what a mac really is.]

Professional Level Portable:
MacBook Pro

Consumer Level Desktop:
iMac

Consumer Level Portable:
MacBook

Entry Level Desktop:
Mac Mini

Entry Level Portable:
[empty]

--- So, the plausible Entry Level portable? MacBook Mini, no doubt.

fox-orian · Jul 23, 2006, 02:18 AM

Artists concept of a possible MacBook mini?
Looks about right, I'd say.

http://web.mac.com/keith.wilson/iWeb...0C1D07CEE.html

Simon · Jul 23, 2006, 03:31 AM

That's rather an iBook with iSight and Frontrow. I think it was originally intended to be a mockup of what the MB would look like.

fox-orian · 10:50 AM

Originally Posted by Simon

That's rather an iBook with iSight and Frontrow. I think it was originally intended to be a mockup of what the MB would look like.

Yeah, but as a small mockup it looks fitting for what would be a mini macbook. I can see the keyboard isn't MacBook style in the concept meaning this image was made even before the macbook was released, but the keyboard would likely be flush with the edges of the case like previous small apple laptops. It gives you an idea that it should be about that thin, too -- or I would expect it to be.

Come to think of it, the price point of a MacBook mini would be pretty low. Usually ultra-portable lapops are more expensive than mid-sized powerhouses -- like that tiny Sony one, that little thing is like $2500, gtanted it could fit in your cars glovebox. I havent been keeping up on prices of ultraportables, but could this mac one be a first *ultra*-affordable ultra-portable?

mduell · Jul 23, 2006, 02:35 PM

Originally Posted by fox-orian

Entry Level Portable:
[empty]

--- So, the plausible Entry Level portable? MacBook Mini, no doubt.

No. Ultralight/thin laptops are generally relatively pricey.
But Apple also has the increased screen size/increased price trend (which no other manuf does... Dell has $2000 12" and $700 17"), so maybe.

fox-orian · Jul 23, 2006, 10:34 PM

Originally Posted by mduell

No. Ultralight/thin laptops are generally relatively pricey.
But Apple also has the increased screen size/increased price trend (which no other manuf does... Dell has $2000 12" and $700 17"), so maybe.

That is true.
From a lot of previous Apple Keynotes I've seen, I've usually always seen price comparisons to similar products. If apple does release an ultra-portable, it's possible they could maybe it affordable just for the sake of sticking it to everyone else, by margins. I still expect something around the price of $900~$1100. The idea of an ultra-portable isn't value, anyway. It's more of "what you really need for your lifestyle."

Frans · Jul 29, 2006, 06:23 PM

My bet would be that the MacBook light is a Pro-product, with a price range between 1800 and 2600 euro's. It's a product aimed at business travellers.

I'm one

It will compete with Sony Vaio TX and S-series.

f1000 · Jul 29, 2006, 07:49 PM

Originally Posted by fox-orian

I still expect something around the price of $900~$1100.

You're dreaming. As mduell says, ultra-portability is a high-end "feature" that'll cost extra. I'd bet that an ultra portable will cost at least $1,300, and possibly more than $1,500.

masugu · Jul 30, 2006, 05:51 PM

Originally Posted by Frans

My bet would be that the MacBook light is a Pro-product, with a price range between 1800 and 2600 euro's. It's a product aimed at business travellers.

I'm one

It will compete with Sony Vaio TX and S-series.

I totally agree re: what Apple might focus on - in terms of the competion. I mentioend VAIO Tx in another post. The latest from Sony here has a terrible keyboard. I hope Apple will do a better job. Wonder if Apple will integrate a WAN antennae as well? Hope they remember to allow for an integrated security filter. As biz folks will be looking at confidential Powerpoint inflight, you gotta cover that stuff up. As far as I can recall, I have never seen a Mac user with a privacy filter.

Jawbone54 · Jul 30, 2006, 07:59 PM

So let's get this straight. Apple is working on...

1. A PDA-like device
2. An "iPhone"
3. A touchscreen video iPod
4. A "Macbook Light"
5. X-Ray vision implant eyes

f1000 · Jul 30, 2006, 08:25 PM

No, they're working on just one device: the X-Ray vision implant eyes, otherwise known as the eye-Pod. It'll replace the PDA, cell-phone, iPod, AND MacBook, and it'll look something like this,

"Wow!"

masugu · Jul 31, 2006, 01:25 AM

The PDA is dead. Long live the lite wireless laptop and cell phone.

Frans · Aug 4, 2006, 07:00 PM

Originally Posted by f1000

No, they're working on just one device: the X-Ray vision implant eyes, otherwise known as the eye-Pod. It'll replace the PDA, cell-phone, iPod, AND MacBook, and it'll look something like this,

"Wow!"

I want one of those!!!! That's extremely cool

Can I join in the beta???

masugu · Aug 4, 2006, 07:12 PM

If THAT is what it looked like, it woudl be called the iSore. ;-)

Googer-Giger · Aug 5, 2006, 06:18 PM

The MacBook light isn't happening. Apple keeps it simple.

chipchen · Aug 5, 2006, 06:32 PM

Originally Posted by Googer-Giger

The MacBook light isn't happening. Apple keeps it simple.

That's kind of a funny/ironic statement isn't it? We're hoping to see an Apple product that is even simpler than that of their current products... and yet, you don't think it will happen because Apple keeps it simple...

bdwelle · Aug 16, 2006, 12:29 PM

All this talk of whether an ultraportable form factor is desirable, viable, and/or reliable seems a bit silly to me. As many posters have pointed out, IBM/Lenovo, Sony, Fujitsu, and many others have been making fantastic PC ultraportables for years now. I have an IBM X40 that I use as my primary machine most of the time, and I on the (very) rare occasion that I need an optical drive, I simply access one from another machine over the network.

The idea that Apple won't build an ultraportable for the sake of "keeping it simple" is absurd -- what could be more simple than _removing_ unnecessary components - just like they did with the floppy drive? There's certainly plenty of demand for this form factor - that's why PC makers make 'em. Furthermore, ultraportable is an 'elite' form factor appealing to a high-end user that I would think would be very desirable for Apple, and who would also buy into the "Switch" proposition quite readily.

Frankly, it's a mystery to me why Apple hasn't built a MacBookLite already. The only thing I can chalk it up to is that their attention has been diverted with the switch to Intel. Now that's done, they need to get on the ball.

I blogged about this a while back: http://www.dwelle.org/archives/2004/...-me-buy-a-mac/

I will buy a MacBookLite once it exists - the only question is when, and why not now?

Frans · Sep 24, 2006, 06:28 AM

Great piece on your blog!

It's been rather quiet on the rumour-front when it comes to the ultra-portable, sleek, small, extremely light-weight new Mac laptop that we're all lusting for. Anyone got any news lately?

We're all expecting a refresh of the Macbook Pro line with Core 2 Duo's, wouldn't that be a good moment to release the Macbook Pro Light?

A Steve, come on, give us the goodies....

Frans · Sep 28, 2006, 04:37 PM

On MacRumours today a piece on NAND flash-HD support, which helps to shorten boottime and boost battery life, and which has previously been connected with the ultra-portable rumours...

Mac Rumors: Apple Flash-Booting MacBooks?

Frans · Dec 5, 2006, 02:52 AM

Discussion on the possible mac Light subnotebook is now on the forum for MacBook Pro, since it's most likely to be a Pro laptop (and boy, that's exactly what i want :-)

You can find it here:
http://forums.macnn.com/69/powerbook...otebook-razor/

redhot_nyc · Dec 5, 2006, 06:22 PM

Fujitsu and Sony ultra-portables....

Use 1.8" 4200rpm ipod drives... incredibly expensive, incredibly slow (we will never see this in a MacBook)
Use LED backlighting... (hopefully we will see this in a MacBook)
Use low-voltage, under-performing CPU's (no thanks)

That is partly how they get their outrageously good battery life, portability and excessive price. But I wouldn't want to run Vista or OSX on them. And I haven't even mentioned the eye strain and typing problems associated with their small size.

Stranger things have happened, but I don't forsee a Mac "ULTRA Portable" ... in the strictest sense of the word.

fisherKing · Dec 5, 2006, 08:48 PM

personally, i'm just waiting (& not holding my breath) for the 12" version of the macbook pro.

i just 'upgraded' from a 1.33 12" powerbook to the last gen 12" (1.5g).
i gained a small speed boost, significantly less heat (a nice surprise), a slightly brighter screen, a superdrive, and a larger, faster harddrive.

but sure, i want an intel mac.
just want it small & lite.

c'mon apple...january?

will wait... (but am happy with my powerbook for now....)

tDot · Jan 15, 2007, 12:33 PM

For all those that question whether there's a market for MacBook thin, the answer is yes. People who spend a lot of time in airplanes. If the form factor was the same as Sony Vaio T series, then you could actually open the thing up and USE IT on a plane when the seat in front of you is down all the way. Also, lighter the better.