Welcome to the MacNN Forums.

ikeem · Dec 20, 2003, 01:45 AM

Hello, well I finally decided to make the switch from the PC to the MAC, I am very interested in the Laptops that Mac has to offer, but I can�t decide which one I want, I don�t know if I want the ibook or the powerbook, I like both of them, but if I had to say one looks much better, I would say the powerbook is much more attractive looking to me, if a computer could be cute the powerbook would be it. My main concern is price, I am saving up money now and I have to the Apple Store, CompUSA, and MicroCenter, I have sat there and played on both computers. I am sure I really don�t need the powerbook, but I really like it, I will use the computer for, email, and documents, and with my digital camera as well, so I am thinking ibook might be best for me, but I am just not sure and I am worried about the ibook getting dirty, since it�s so white, any suggestions on which computer might be right for me. Any suggestions would help me greatly

Thanks
From a Soon to be Mac User

rjenkinson · 10:16 AM

you don't need the powerbook for what you want to do. save the money or use the difference in price to upgrade the ibook with more RAM or peripherals.

-r.

andreas_g4 · Dec 20, 2003, 08:39 AM

Word. Get an iBook. You are right, the powerbook is - as the name says - more powerful, but that doesen't mean, the iBook is not powerful enough. For the things you mentioned, the iBook is the perfect mac. And to your concerns about the iBook getting filthy after some time, don't worry. The iBook I'm typing on is my 3rd white iBook, and none of them ever has been more dirty than any other laptop I've seen. Just be sure to get an iBook bag, there are several threads to this in the forums here.

ryeguy · Dec 20, 2003, 10:02 AM

Get the PowerBook. Check out www.macopinion.com and the latest about ibooks failing logic boards. I do not have hard numbers to present you, but I know just in the states alone that 1000's of ibooks have had to have their logic boards replaced. Mine too failed (3.5 months old). The quality of these computers is questionable. Put a powerbook beside an ibook and the powerbook blows away the ibook in both speed and quality. The keyboard on the ibook is poor, it is about 25% slower than the powerbook (check out barefeats.com for the numbers), and this logic board problem should be a deterrent for anyone wanting to buy an ibook. I have used both a new ibook and a new 12" powerbook side by side and there IS a noticeable difference in speed between the two. Do yourself a favor and buy the powerbook, I know I should have.

enk0d · Dec 20, 2003, 03:21 PM

I am also considering on getting a G4 933Mhz ibook and i was wondering if these are included in the logic board failures that have been plaguing ibook users? Have been any issues with these models as yet or is it just the G3 series?

I am asking because the cost difference between the two is about 500.00 so is it really worth it? Should i be concerned seeing how i am getting a G4 series over the old G3?

discotronic · Dec 20, 2003, 03:51 PM

The failing logic board problem seems to be a problem with the G3's. Mostly the late 2001 and 2002 models. That's not to say that those are the only ones. It is too early to tell if it is a problem with the new G4's. I would say not but only time will tell.

The PowerBooks are sweet but I wouldn't spend the extra $500 on one if I don't need it. The speed difference isn't "that much". If you are doing graphics intense projects maybe. For simple email, surfing, and word processing why would you need more. Don't worry about the white getting dirty. All I have ever done is wipe it down with a soft cloth and it looks near new.

Something to keep in mind. Computers are machines and machines break. Get Applecare because it is a laptop. These things aren't like a desktop that probably won't move from the same spot for years. All it takes is one nice bump inside your pack for something to fail. All laptops are this way.

My iBook 700 (2002 model) is the 5th Mac laptop that I have owned. The quality of this one is better than the previous 4. I would recommend them to anyone even with the logic board problems that are going around. Just think of the ratio of laptops sold to logic board failures. Odds are you will never have a problem out of your laptop.

ryeguy · Dec 21, 2003, 04:52 AM

Thank you for your post discotronic. However, you present no evidence to support your comments. "Just think of the ratio of dead ibooks to ones that have no problems." OK, I am thinking, now what? "Odds are..." Insert numbers discotronic. And yes, the last run of G3 ibooks suffer from the logic board problem. Mine is one of the last run ones. What about your comment about speed? You say the powerbook is not that much faster, why? It should be noted that my comments about the ibook being 25% slower are based on comparing the 900 mhz G3 to the new 12" powerbook. Granted the new G4 ibooks are quicker so that percentage will drop.

However, the ibook is still not a good choice, not when the powerbook offers so much more. But, if price is really an issue, then you really have NO choice, do you? If you want a new Apple laptop and can only afford to spend 1100 bucks, you are stuck with the ibook. It should be noted that there are many good points to the ibook. However, if you have the funds, buy the powerbook; the negatives far outway the positives in regards to the ibook (potential logic board failure, crappy keyboard, cheap outer case construction, white finish that shows dirt easily, crappy trackpad and trackpad button, potential battery problems). Trust me, if you think a logic board failure cannot happend to you, you are mistaken. I bought mine brand new at an apple store, barely used the thing, treated it like gold, and it failed after only about 3 months. But I am not alone. 100's of people have posted comments about failing logic boards. 1000's have been repaired.

terkwong · Dec 21, 2003, 09:52 AM

I would say get the iBOok G4!!! I have one now and its a pleasure to work on! I upgraded from an old iBOok G3...cos I love the iBook compact size and its steadiness...rugged and more resistant than those metal powerbooks....

I will recommend that you wait till after Macworld SF 2004 first though...you never know what Steve has up his sleeves.,.,

ter

discotronic · 11:11 AM

Originally posted by ryeguy:
Thank you for your post discotronic. However, you present no evidence to support your comments. "Just think of the ratio of dead ibooks to ones that have no problems." OK, I am thinking, now what? "Odds are..." Insert numbers discotronic. And yes, the last run of G3 ibooks suffer from the logic board problem. Mine is one of the last run ones. What about your comment about speed? You say the powerbook is not that much faster, why? It should be noted that my comments about the ibook being 25% slower are based on comparing the 900 mhz G3 to the new 12" powerbook. Granted the new G4 ibooks are quicker so that percentage will drop.

However, the ibook is still not a good choice, not when the powerbook offers so much more. But, if price is really an issue, then you really have NO choice, do you? If you want a new Apple laptop and can only afford to spend 1100 bucks, you are stuck with the ibook. It should be noted that there are many good points to the ibook. However, if you have the funds, buy the powerbook; the negatives far outway the positives in regards to the ibook (potential logic board failure, crappy keyboard, cheap outer case construction, white finish that shows dirt easily, crappy trackpad and trackpad button, potential battery problems). Trust me, if you think a logic board failure cannot happend to you, you are mistaken. I bought mine brand new at an apple store, barely used the thing, treated it like gold, and it failed after only about 3 months. But I am not alone. 100's of people have posted comments about failing logic boards. 1000's have been repaired.

Can't you read? Did you read the initial posting by ikeem?

My comments about speed where about simple everyday tasks like surfing the net, email, word processing. With these tasks there is virtually no difference in the two. I did mention that there would be a difference in power hungry tasks like graphics intense work. Show me evidence where the G4's are plagued by the logic board failures. Tell me how a PowerBook will save a document faster than an iBook. Will the PowerBook log onto MacNN faster than an iBook?

I was using your expertly compiled numbers as reference. If you compare the 1000's (your #'s) to the hundred's of thousands of iBooks sold the odds are in favor of never having a logic board go bad. Go back and read the first line of my posting.

Why don't YOU post some hard #'s? If you have all the inside information, tell everyone here how many logic boards have failed. Tell us how many iBooks have been sold. On the other end of the spectrum give us numbers from other companies like Dell or Gateway with sales to failure ratios. I'm sure that the readers here would like to have some data like that handy. That way we can make an accurate assessment about the true extent of these logic board failures. I have been reading articles and forum posts for months now about the failure. I have yet to see hard numbers.

Tell ikeem and enk0d how the PB is better than the iBook with something besides the logic board failures of the G3 models. They are looking at the G4 model and there is no evidence that the problem has carried over. Also, if you read the first posting by ikeem, money is an issue.

I was offering my opinion and you try to bash me for it. Trying to get publicity for yourself here Ryan? Get a life and go sign the class action lawsuit petition.

ryeguy · Dec 21, 2003, 01:01 PM

Originally posted by discotronic:
Can't you read? Did you read the initial posting by ikeem?

My comments about speed where about simple everyday tasks like surfing the net, email, word processing. With these tasks there is virtually no difference in the two. I did mention that there would be a difference in power hungry tasks like graphics intense work. Show me evidence where the G4's are plagued by the logic board failures. Tell me how a PowerBook will save a document faster than an iBook. Will the PowerBook log onto MacNN faster than an iBook?

I was using your expertly compiled numbers as reference. If you compare the 1000's (your #'s) to the hundred's of thousands of iBooks sold the odds are in favor of never having a logic board go bad. Go back and read the first line of my posting.

Why don't YOU post some hard #'s? If you have all the inside information, tell everyone here how many logic boards have failed. Tell us how many iBooks have been sold. On the other end of the spectrum give us numbers from other companies like Dell or Gateway with sales to failure ratios. I'm sure that the readers here would like to have some data like that handy. That way we can make an accurate assessment about the true extent of these logic board failures. I have been reading articles and forum posts for months now about the failure. I have yet to see hard numbers.

Tell ikeem and enk0d how the PB is better than the iBook with something besides the logic board failures of the G3 models. They are looking at the G4 model and there is no evidence that the problem has carried over. Also, if you read the first posting by ikeem, money is an issue.

I was offering my opinion and you try to bash me for it. Trying to get publicity for yourself here Ryan? Get a life and go sign the class action lawsuit petition.

Socrates refers to people like discotronic as "Misologists." That is, people who focus on winning an argument rather than focussing on the truth. Yes I read the original posting my ikeem. He really likes the powerbook because it is more attractive and it is not white, which is an issue for him. Furthermore, as price is an issue for him, he can still afford a powerbook - he is just not sure if he needs to spend the extra money. I urge ikeem to spend the extra money and get a powerbook for the reasons I went over in my original post.

"My comments about speed where about simple everyday tasks like surfing the net, email, word processing. With these tasks there is virtually no difference in the two."

Really discotronic? I beg to differ. I tried both the ibook G4 933 and the powerbook 1 GHZ side by side today running panther and there IS a difference in speed. My criteria for testing was number of icon bounces in the dock it takes to, for example, open Microsoft Word, open safari, and surf the net. Furthermore, The G4 chip in the powerbook out performs the ibook on the web - it has a better caching system.

"I did mention that there would be a difference in power hungry tasks like graphics intense work."

Good, because ikeem mentioned he will be using his digital camera with his computer. Not sure if that means manipulating the pictures to any great extent, but again, as you point out, the powerbook is better equipped for things that are power hungry, like loading and maniputlating digital pictures/videos.

"Why don't YOU post some hard #'s? If you have all the inside information, tell everyone here how many logic boards have failed."

I do not have access to such information. The 1700 logic boards replaced this past quarter was revealed to me by someone who has a friend that works for apple in the US. If you say 100's of thousands of ibooks sold, is that just in the states alone or worldwide? 1700 refers to the US alone. I gave some numbers for Poland, which came straight from the manager at the Apple Service Center here in Warsaw - 1 ibook per day for a logic board replacement. It should be noted that the latter is for ibooks purchased outside of Poland but for people residing in Poland - the units get shipped to Holland or Amsterdam for repair work. If you bought your ibook in Poland, you can get repair service here in Poland. So, if you include ibooks that get repaired here in Poland, that 1 per day will increase.

I saw three ibooks on the table with the same problem. I did not ask how many they repair here in Poland per day or week. You should also know that the manager is aware of a "problem with these units" out here in Europe - logic board failures. He had a discussion about it with his colleagues in Paris. You should also know that of the 3 ibooks on the table, 2 were G4's. You are right about not being able to tell just yet if the G4's will fail like the G3's, but seeing these units on the table makes me curious. But even if the logic boards are good, I still urge ikeem to buy the powerbook (better keyboard, better construction, faster, smaller, better graphics, etc., etc.). Just take a look at the tech specs. I am not hinging my comments solely on logic board failures, but it is one major factor to consider when deciding betwn a powerbook and an ibook. Charles Moore of Macopinion also agrees that the ibook is not a good buy right now - too risky.

As for wanting to bash you, I am not, I am pointing out facts. It is not fun to be typing this on an old PC because my ibook is on repair for 3 weeks getting a most likely refurbished part. Buyer beware with ibooks - even if it is too early to tell, better wait to see the stats and see if they fail or not. The Powerbook 12" has an excellent track record, all the more reason to buy it.

discotronic · Dec 21, 2003, 02:44 PM

I am sorry to say that you are wrong about your analysis of me. What arguement am I trying to win? PowerBook vs. iBook? For "overall" performance the PowerBook is going to come out on top.

I have compared the PB and iBook side by side myself. Yes, the PB does have a better caching system. Yes, it is definately a faster laptop. Does it perform $500 better than an iBook at simple everyday tasks? I don't see it. The keyboard is a matter of personal preference. The weight on the 12" models (0.3 lbs) isn't enough to make a good arguement. Graphics and raw speed is a non-issue. PB wins without an arguement but how could it not? It was designed to be a faster, more feature rich computer. Battery life, durability and Airport range are better with the iBook.

Compare my iMac 1.25GHz with 768MB RAM (basically the same as the PB 15" 1.25GHz) and iBook 700 with 640MB RAM . Both of them operate virtually the same when opening Microsoft Word, Safari, iTunes and iPhoto. Same number of bounces in the dock. Opening web pages take almost the same amount of time. Games are another story. The bundled game Deimos Rising is a whole lot faster to load on the iMac and Castle Wolfenstein is terrible on the iBook. Virtual PC running Windows XP is the clear winner on the iMac. VPC with Win 98 is about the same on both systems.

Tell me how the PB and iBook differ in performance with simple tasks? If more speed for graphics/processor intense programs is needed, definatly go for the PowerBook. In my opinion: If it isn't needed don't get it.

As for the logic board failures. I realize that there is a problem but then again who doesn't besides Apple. The fact is this: You can't present hard numbers yourself. "I heard it through a friend that knows this guy who is the son of guy who works on iBooks" or "I was told by such and such that this is a problem". That doesn't say much in the way of facts. Who you have talked to and what they have told you is meaningless. I'm not saying that your not telling the truth but can you back up the numbers? I could come up with something to contradict everything you have said and make it sound like very reliable information.

I'm sorry that your iBook bit the bullet. There is always a chance that my iBook will do the same thing. I am waiting for Apple to own up to the problem as they should. It is bad for the consumer and for Apple when things like this happen.

I still believe that the iBook is a great value and I really don't see where there is a basis for an arguement on the subject.

ryeguy · Dec 21, 2003, 03:42 PM

Originally posted by discotronic:
I am sorry to say that you are wrong about your analysis of me. What arguement am I trying to win? PowerBook vs. iBook? For "overall" performance the PowerBook is going to come out on top.

I have compared the PB and iBook side by side myself. Yes, the PB does have a better caching system. Yes, it is definately a faster laptop. Does it perform $500 better than an iBook at simple everyday tasks? I don't see it. The keyboard is a matter of personal preference. The weight on the 12" models (0.3 lbs) isn't enough to make a good arguement. Graphics and raw speed is a non-issue. PB wins without an arguement but how could it not? It was designed to be a faster, more feature rich computer. Battery life, durability and Airport range are better with the iBook.

Compare my iMac 1.25GHz with 768MB RAM (basically the same as the PB 15" 1.25GHz) and iBook 700 with 640MB RAM . Both of them operate virtually the same when opening Microsoft Word, Safari, iTunes and iPhoto. Same number of bounces in the dock. Opening web pages take almost the same amount of time. Games are another story. The bundled game Deimos Rising is a whole lot faster to load on the iMac and Castle Wolfenstein is terrible on the iBook. Virtual PC running Windows XP is the clear winner on the iMac. VPC with Win 98 is about the same on both systems.

Tell me how the PB and iBook differ in performance with simple tasks? If more speed for graphics/processor intense programs is needed, definatly go for the PowerBook. In my opinion: If it isn't needed don't get it.

As for the logic board failures. I realize that there is a problem but then again who doesn't besides Apple. The fact is this: You can't present hard numbers yourself. "I heard it through a friend that knows this guy who is the son of guy who works on iBooks" or "I was told by such and such that this is a problem". That doesn't say much in the way of facts. Who you have talked to and what they have told you is meaningless. I'm not saying that your not telling the truth but can you back up the numbers? I could come up with something to contradict everything you have said and make it sound like very reliable information.

I'm sorry that your iBook bit the bullet. There is always a chance that my iBook will do the same thing. I am waiting for Apple to own up to the problem as they should. It is bad for the consumer and for Apple when things like this happen.

I still believe that the iBook is a great value and I really don't see where there is a basis for an arguement on the subject.

"Graphics and raw speed is a non-issue."

Really? I have never heard anyone talking about buying computers say that before.

"Does it perform $500 better than an iBook at simple everyday tasks? I don't see it."

That is your opinion. Also, $500 doesn't just get you better performance, you also get a larger HD (10 GB) to store all those digital pics and music/videos on, an arguably more durable computer, built in bluetooth, and what looks to be a better screen (my opinion and my eyes are good), among other things. However, the difference in performance alone is staggering.

"The keyboard is a matter of personal preference."

Beg to differ. A crappy keyboard is a crappy keyboard.

"The weight on the 12" models (0.3 lbs) isn't enough to make a good arguement."

Ya it is, and the powerbook is also thinner and has smaller dimensions to boot (but hey, just go compare the tech specs yourself).

"Battery life, durability and Airport range are better with the iBook."

Really? Battery life is another possible endemic problem with the ibook. 1000's of posts in the last 6 months tallied from macfixit, macnn, and apple discussions relating to battery failures on these units. And guess what? apple is aware of the problem discoman (I know because I had battery trouble too! they told me on the phone they were aware of pre-mature battery failure). They have been sending out refurbished batteries (grey ones to be exact) and people are pissed because it does not match the color of their white ibooks.

As for durability, what are you talking about? The powerbook is made of aluminum - damn durable. The properties of aluminum make it extremely strong, light, and maleable (absorbs shock well). The ibook is durable too, but more durable discoman? What tests have you run to come to that broad sweeping generalization?

Airport range? How do you know?

"Tell me how the PB and iBook differ in performance with simple tasks?"

Already did. Ran my tests on two brand new stock machines at the Apple store here in Warsaw. Read my assessment again if need be.

You also setup a straw man with that imac ibook comparison. Go see for yourself discoman - compare the two machines in question not an imac to an older ibook. Run panther on both machines and do the test. If you do not believe the powerbook elicits less bounces in the dock than a 933 G4 ibook, then there is nothing I can do. Also, I am being generous, as ikeem will be purchasing the 800 MHZ G4, not the 933, which may or may not elicit slower performance.

"The fact is this: You can't present hard numbers yourself. "I heard it through a friend that knows this guy who is the son of guy who works on iBooks" or "I was told by such and such that this is a problem". That doesn't say much in the way of facts. Who you have talked to and what they have told you is meaningless."

Fair enough. I do not work for apple so I cannot access the numbers. But I did not hear it through a friend that knows this guy who is the son of a guy who works on ibooks. I heard it through a friend that is the roomate of a guy that works at an apple service center in the States. You are really taking away from the credibility of yourself discoman. If you think my comments are meaningless, then I dare say you are being rather childesh.

"As for the logic board failures. I realize that there is a problem but then again who doesn't besides Apple."

Contradicting yourself discoman!

"I could come up with something to contradict everything you have said and make it sound like very reliable information."

This comment is confusing.

"I am waiting for Apple to own up to the problem as they should."

What the hell are you arguing with me about then? So you admit there is a logic board problem? Why urge someone to buy a machine with such a known issue then? There are so many positives to the powerbook, and ikeem really likes it/he can affor it. Therefore ikeem, buy the powerbook.

"I still believe that the iBook is a great value and I really don't see where there is a basis for an arguement on the subject."

Oh my god, you are the man discoman! All that partying has given you dimentia. Peace.

gonadman · Dec 21, 2003, 03:59 PM

Well, we sure are bringing the discussion forward constructively.

I, for one, have never had a problem with an iBook - be it a G3 or G4. I don't think a PowerBook is *necessary* for any iPhoto related work, as the iBook G4 is mighty fast.

On the other hand, the PowerBook is more visually appealing and performs slightly better, so if you've got the cash it's definately not a bad buy. I just couldn't justify the price leap myself.

Either way, you'll be getting a very nice OS and hardware package that will hopefully serve you well for a very long time to come!

ShaneBryant · Dec 21, 2003, 04:38 PM

hey man, get an ibook, it's rad. out of thousands and thousands of something sold, there's gonna be issues with a few. and out of thousands of people that write on these boards, therre's gonna be the guy that always thinks the cup is less than half empty. whatever. you get a warranty anyway. i think the ibooks rawk. for real.

oh, and ryeguy, just want to mention that you're a dork. anybody that starts out a reply with "Socrates says" is just jerking off looking at their own picture. and please waste another 4 hours writing a long reply trying to tell me I'm wrong, i won't read it, but somebody will get a kick out of it. later.

ryeguy · Dec 21, 2003, 05:13 PM

Originally posted by ShaneBryant:
hey man, get an ibook, it's rad. out of thousands and thousands of something sold, there's gonna be issues with a few. and out of thousands of people that write on these boards, therre's gonna be the guy that always thinks the cup is less than half empty. whatever. you get a warranty anyway. i think the ibooks rawk. for real.

oh, and ryeguy, just want to mention that you're a dork. anybody that starts out a reply with "Socrates says" is just jerking off looking at their own picture. and please waste another 4 hours writing a long reply trying to tell me I'm wrong, i won't read it, but somebody will get a kick out of it. later.

It took about 10 minutes to post. Ad Hominem attacks eh? Still not focussing on the facts of the argument. My friend told me not to argue with stupid people, maybe he was right. ShaneBryant, you fail to recognize what is going on here. You also fail to backup your comments. I have established, thus far in the argument, that there is a logic board issue with the ibooks. That, coupled with the positives that the 12" powerbook brings along with it make the extra $500 worth it if you have the funds. If you do not have the funds, then you must opt for the ibook if you want a brand new apple laptop, right? But be warned that they are flakey, even if the new G4's do not suffer the logic board problems. Also, it is pretty obvious that not everyone posts on these boards so our stats will never show true numbers when taking a sample from these forums.

I am glad you like the ibook but you are also rather rude and unhelpful in regards to adding anything useful to this thread. Your subjective opinion does not translate into anything but that. Because you like it does not mean (a) it is the right comuter for ikeem (b) it is not flakey.

And as for the iphoto comment; how do you know what ikeem is doing with his digital camera? You are making assumptions. Ikeem likes the powerbook, he can afford it, the ibook is flakey, the powerbook is not, therefore, ikeem should buy the powerbook. Oh, and guys, when and if your ibook fails, I hope you will share it with us here on the forums. Let me know how you feel about typing on a PC and waiting 3-4 weeks for it to come back. My ibook was ok when it was working, but now it is non-existent. Warranty shwarranty. You have to realize the time and annoyance of having your computer break down - taxi fare to get to the service depot, lineups, paperwork, and 3-4 weeks without the computer. But all logic board and battery flakeyness aside, the ibook is still not that great of a machine (ugly white, crappy keyboard, battery that does not fit right, and generally, the outer construction is poor - i.e. screen does not sit right on mine and 50 others I saw in a service depot. I checked them out becuase I wanted to know if I was just unlucky. Come on, 50 units out of 54 had warped lids - they were not in for warped lids mind you.

I dare you to inspect your ibook closely. How does the battery fit? How does the lid sit? And as for the logic board, I think I know what the defect is - the video card. The video card is prone to frying due to its design, thus calling for a whole new logic board. Almost every post I read that descriped symtoms had video card fried symptoms. Now, the G4's may not suffer from this, but still, the ibook sucks.

si_lance · Dec 21, 2003, 07:08 PM

Sorry I'm going to have to "attack the man", your logician jargon does not intimidate me, but you are a loser.

If you can't realize that you posted into the "iBook" section of the board, and people are going to rationally and irrationally defend their choice of getting an iBook, then you need to take a stern look at your education and intelligence. Please go take your snobby posts to the Powerbook section of the forum where they belong.

rjenkinson · Dec 21, 2003, 07:14 PM

with all the talk about the ibook's logic boards, i am surprised no one has mentioned the powerbooks widespread white spots problem.

-r.

bimmerphile · Dec 21, 2003, 08:49 PM

Let's end this spread of misinformation RIGHT HERE:

The iBook G4's motherboard is Designated "Powerbook 6,3" meaning, it will not suffer the problems of the old "Powerbook 4,3" models.

THERE ARE DIFFERENT LOGICBOARDS BETWEEN THE G3 AND G4 IBOOKS!

That is all.

lurkalot · Dec 21, 2003, 11:22 PM

Severely edited by Lurkalot but...

Originally posted by ryeguy:
"I am not hinging my comments solely on logic board failures, but it is one major factor to consider when deciding betwn a powerbook and an ibook. Charles Moore of Macopinion also agrees that the ibook is not a good buy right now - too risky."

For those who have not read it yet here is a link to the Charles Moore MacOpinion piece about the iBook -primarily G3- logic board faillures. Link

NightEyes · Dec 22, 2003, 01:50 AM

I had an Al PB, but sold it after buying a new G4 iBook. Seriously, side by side for a week, with similar amounts of ram, I didn't notice any significant speed difference. Get the iBook.

deathvole · 06:04 PM

ikeem wrote:
" ... My main concern is price [ ... ] I will use the computer for, email, and documents, and with my digital camera as well, so I am thinking ibook might be best for me."

ikeem, I'd definitely vote you go with the G4 iBook. I've owned Apples since 1981 - Apple ][+w/ 64K :-) - and my G4 iBook is by far the best of them.

I use mine for all the things you mention, plus software development when I'm on the road and gaming. (640MB RAM/Airport Extreme).

A key factor many overlook is that the iBook has greater battery life than the PowerBooks. That and price were critical to me. An extra hour of battery can really save the day.

All the published tests I've read place the G4 12" iBook on very favorable terms with the 12" Powerbook. Take the money you save and invest in max RAM (640MB) and an Airport Extreme card. Both will make your iBook a pleasure to use. Given your tight budget, if you go with a PowerBook you'll be stuck with a stock box with no wireless connectivity. OS X really shines with 512+MB RAM.

And I'd strongly suggest the 12" iBook so long as it's friendly to your eyes. The screen resolution is the same as the 14", but the smaller physical size is ideal for carrying around.

Either way, good luck and enjoy!

-DV

ryeguy · Dec 22, 2003, 03:59 PM

Wow, you guys sure proved me wrong.

death vole: The fact that your subjective opinion sheds a positive light on the ibook G4 is worth something, but how much? I like fat chics, do you? Just because you like the ibook does not mean many others will and do too. Also, it does not mean that the ibook is not flakey either.

You speak of battery life. Well, there is a known problem with the ibook battery aknowledged by apple, so that extra 1 hour YOU claim you get on your ibook may decrease to under what the powerbook will get after about 6 months, because after about 6 months is when they start failing. And 1 hour more on the ibook! Did you run a real world test, because my ibook does not last much longer than the tibook G4 500 I used to have.

Moreover, is battery life even an issue for ikeem? He did not say. Thus, the battery is not a selling point for the ibook.

"Favorable terms." What the heck does that translate to performance wise? Nice use of jargon though.

Airport Extreme? What? Who said ikeem was even interested in wireless? What about an airport station which costs a mint? Your Airport Extreme point is thus not a selling point for the ibook.

Does ikeem really need 640 MB of RAM? If so, why? There are many places where you can get free RAM bundled with your purchase. Thus, extra RAM is not a selling point for the ibook.

"Stuck with a stock box." Ya, that outperforms your ibook!

si_lance: I am a loser? What does what you think of me change the facts? Answer: nothing. You just have nothing left to say but crap.

"I should take a stern look at my education and intelligence?" OK, I just did. Now what? Hmmm, I know, the ibook still sucks.

"White spots." The white spots are a problem on the 15" powerbooks, not the 12", so that does not apply to the powerbook 12".

In closing, all of your comments have not added a shred of anything to this thread. The ibook sucks, you guys suck, and the 12" powerbook, as I have shown so easily against you knuckleheads, is a much better computer for the extra $500 and there is no reason that ikeem should not buy it - hey, he likes it.

PS: As for the different logic board in the G4, so what, the ibook is a piece of junk with or without a good logic board as I have shown.

jerry1 · Dec 22, 2003, 04:37 PM

ryeguy, take it easy. You have had a sore experience with the iBook. Thanks for sharing it with us though you need not oppose others who have had a positive experience with iBook. I believe everything that comes from Apple will be a great product and the iBook at the price is definitely tempting.

andreas_g4 · Dec 22, 2003, 05:30 PM

Originally posted by ShaneBryant:
oh, and ryeguy, just want to mention that you're a dork. anybody that starts out a reply with "Socrates says" is just jerking off looking at their own picture.

Putting ryeguy on ignorelist. He will state I should get a life and so on - at least a five screen high website. Well, I'll not read it al least...

deathvole · Dec 22, 2003, 06:16 PM

Wow. Truly bizarre. Time to put away the Purina Troll Chow, folks. If you start feeding one they'll just start hanging around the yard.

*plonk*

-DV

si_lance · Dec 22, 2003, 10:41 PM

Originally posted by ryeguy:

si_lance: I am a loser? What does what you think of me change the facts? Answer: nothing. You just have nothing left to say but crap.

Funny I don't think you logically proved me wrong and suddenly you are also attacking the man? Have nothing intelligent to say?

I'll retract this and just put the troll on ignore... my bad sorry I didn't see the sign, "Don't Feed the Trolls".

ryeguy · Dec 22, 2003, 10:57 PM

Whatever a troll is. Also, "funny, I don't think you logically proved me wrong" adds nothing to your position in the argument. You could also say things like "I don't think you said anything legit" or "I don't think your argument is sound", etc. However, why do you not think so? Just saying you don't think so is the first step of many steps in such a case. By the way, you still suck and so does the ibook. HA!

ryeguy · Dec 22, 2003, 11:02 PM

I will take my business over to the powerbook forums where some real thinkers lurk.

discotronic · Dec 23, 2003, 01:20 AM

Originally posted by ryeguy:
I will take my business over to the powerbook forums where some real thinkers lurk.

You are the kind of person that talks just to hear the sound of your voice. I know your type. You have yet to back anything you have said up. If being an a** like you comes from owning a PowerBook I will just stick with my logic board time bomb iBook.

To everyone out there with a PowerBook, don't take this post personally.

ryeguy · Dec 23, 2003, 03:22 AM

"You are the kind of person that talks just to hear the sound of your voice. I know your type."

You are the kind of person who is substandard; I know your type.

"You have yet to back anything you have said up."

You are not only stupid, but a liar as well.

"If being an a** like you comes from owning a PowerBook I will just stick with my logic board time bomb iBook."

You do that discoman.

ryeguy · Dec 23, 2003, 09:31 AM

Excerpt from a recent Macnn Cover Story:

It didn't help that the middle schoolers had bought a first-generation product, Apple's all-white iBooks. "I remember the first year--the issues were ridiculous!" says Chris Rose, who teaches humanities. "I mean, CD drives were popping out, the plugs were not working, there were battery problems. It wasn't software; it was really basic stuff."

Will the ibook G4 be less trouble than its predecessor? Why not let a bunch of stupid people be the testers to find out. Hey, wait, you guys fit that criteria so therefore you could be the testers! Think about it; now you can put your stupidity to good use.

matt_sheppard · Dec 23, 2003, 10:18 AM

Originally posted by ryeguy:
Do yourself a favor and buy the powerbook, I know I should have.

Originally posted by ryeguy:
Hey banchum. I am living in Poland, where are you? Maybe we could stay in touch via email (freudling at hotmail dot com). I own an ibook that is a piece of junk. It is in Holland getting a new logic board. The powerbooks sound like a nightmare. Pismo anyone?

(see http://forums.macnn.com/showthread.p...hreadid=190938)

If the Powerbooks are so much of a nightmare why recommend them to ikeem?

Regards,

Matt.

matt_sheppard · Dec 23, 2003, 10:23 AM

ikeem,

I currently own a iBook G4, and am using it for pretty much the same sort of stuff as you, surfing, email etc. It is perfectly fine for such tasks.

Whilst it is true there have been (or appear to have been) logic board issues on the G3s (never had such a problem on my old 500Mhz G3) there is no proof that this problem is present on G4s.

Obviously this is just a personal opinion but I am very happy with my iBook and would recommend it to you, for what you want to do I think you would be happy with a iBook too, plus you'll have saved yourself a considerable amount of cash (invest in a iPod

)

Regards,

Matt.

ryeguy · Dec 23, 2003, 01:20 PM

The powerbook 15" with the white screens sounds like a nightmare, not the 12".

Again, the ibook is a clunker, but hey, go for it!

discotronic · Dec 23, 2003, 06:22 PM

Originally posted by ryeguy:
The powerbook 15" with the white screens sounds like a nightmare, not the 12".

Again, the ibook is a clunker, but hey, go for it!

If the iBook is sooo bad....why did you buy one in the first place?

Where have you backed up anything you have said? Prick.

ryeguy · Dec 23, 2003, 07:21 PM

It was a gift Prick. But hey, critical thinkers may have thought of that.

As for the backing up, usually stupid people cannot read, so I take it the latter applies to you. Take care discoman.

ryeguy · Dec 23, 2003, 07:34 PM

Hey guys, thought you might want to know that there are posts seeping through the cracks about G4 ibook logic board failures. Take a look around. Here is one example of many that I came across over the last scan of discussion forums:

"I've had the ibook g4 933 for about a month, but not the same unit. The first one I had died after about 2 weeks - wouldn't wake from sleep
or do much of anything - bad logic board. Replaced by apple with
another unit. 2 days later, graphics card faulty. Replaced by Apple.
This third unit seems fine so far, but it sure appears that there is some
fault with ibook logic boards. At least I received replacements with no hassle. I asked what happens if this one craps out - but they just said
well have to see. I'm hopeful that I've got a good one now."

Did I mention that both the ibook sucks and so do you guys? HA!

matt_sheppard · Dec 24, 2003, 05:04 AM

Originally posted by ryeguy:
Did I mention that both the ibook sucks and so do you guys? HA!

ryeguy its comments like that that destroy any credibility your trying to give to your statements.

If you back up your statements with hard proof then fine, but at the moment its all hearsay and ought to be considered opinion not fact.

Whichever laptop ikeem chooses (be it iBook or Powerbook) he'll have chosen a fine platform none the less.

Regards,

Matt

ryeguy · Dec 24, 2003, 06:12 AM

If you back up your statements with hard proof then fine, but at the moment its all hearsay and ought to be considered opinion not fact.

hearsay? hearsay = unverified information heard from another, rumor.

Well, you could say the 1700 logic board number is hearsay, but discoman actually admits there is a problem with ibooks and logic boards (G3's). Also, it is not hearsay about Apple in Europe admitting there is problem with logic boards - saying it to my face straight from the manager in the service depot with a stack of ibooks sitting on his desk waiting for the same drasted repair. As for the rest, it is all fact (warped lids, white that shows dirt, crappy keyboard, ibook being slower than the powerbook, etc., etc.). You see, it is the problem of failing logic boards not just once, but sometimes over and over. Here is yet another one of many posts about a logic board failure in an ibook G4 taken from apples discussion boards:

"Apple store Tampa just shipped my G4 933 off to have the logic board replaced after 1 month of use. Kernal panics and crashes all over the place even after wiping the drive and reinstalling the OS. Not good. I was right in the middle of completing a project when the computer was shipped so now I'm SOL getting it completed until at the earliest after xmas. Could'a bought the iBook G3 900 for $300 less but went with the 1.0 version of the G4 iBook. Note to Apple: I won't do that again."

Moreover, Apple admits there is a battery problem, of which there are posts of G4's with failing batteries cropping up as well. If Apple admits there is a problem, then we must admit that that is not hearsay. Should I really go on dumbo? It is so easy to point out flaws in comments by stupid people, but hey, you asked for it. You guys keep coming back for more punishment. My friend as a site called suckersforpunishment, reminds me of you guys. Did I mention the ibook sucks?

matt_sheppard · Dec 24, 2003, 05:30 PM

Must you really resort to name calling? Care to show some formal statement from said manager? No? Thought not.

I'm not saying there is no problem with G3 logic boards, i've never suffered from it so can't comment, merely agreeing with Discoman that you have not backed up your statements.

But if you really want to convince people that Powerbooks are the way to go then please keep it civil, all you do is show yourself up and discredit yourself by resorting to name calling!!

Regards,

Matt.

ryeguy · Dec 24, 2003, 05:52 PM

Hey Matt, you fecicious little xxxx.

"Care to blah blah blah"

My case number is 3115. Call 011 48 22 651 61 55 and ask for the service department. Then ask for someone that speaks english. Then ask for the manager. Then ask about the ibook logic board problem. If you do not want to call, you can visit them in person. Here is there address:

ul. Mangalia 4, 02-758 Warszawa, Poland

As for the battery problem, call apple to verify my information that there is a problem. As for verifying the info about failed logic boards on the G4's, go to the apple discussions yourself and find the posts. I mean really, how much hard evidence can I really provide through a medium such as an online forum.

Moreover, I have shown that the powerbook is worth the extra money if you can afford it. Finally, the thread is exhausted.

You suck and so does the ibook, loser.

ryaxnb · Dec 24, 2003, 11:50 PM

Get the iBook. (BTW, the logic board problem should be eliminated on the iBook G4's)

wataru · Dec 25, 2003, 02:17 AM

I recommend that you get an iBook and put ryeguy on your ignore list.

ryeguy · Dec 25, 2003, 04:51 AM

The logic board definately should be eliminated, but that does not mean that it is. Wow, is English your thrid language?

matt_sheppard · Dec 25, 2003, 07:07 PM

ryeguy,

Again with the name calling? I took the liberty of doing a quick search based on your username, do you realise that the majority of your posts on macnn are just you mouthing off at everybody else?

I hate to resort to name calling like you but there is a word for people like you, troll.

If you think the failure rate on iBook G3's is bad maybe you ought to have a look at other manufacture's.

Also it is correct that there may be a logic board problem on iBook G4's, but its far to early to say either way, why not wait and see rather than shout that there is and only be able to offer past problems with the G3's as proof?

Regards

Matt.

typoon · Dec 26, 2003, 01:52 PM

I've been looking at this issue for the past 2 days since I now have the ability to choose between iBook and Powerbook. I decided to go with the powerbook for several reasons. First for me is the RAM upgradeability. Standard installed ram is 256Megs on 1 chip. The iBook only has 128 on 1 chip and a second 128 installed to give you 256 standard installed. Second for me according to the Apple website is that all the new powerbooks come with Bluetooth pre-installed. that for me is Key. I know I could get the dongle for the Bluetooth but it's something extra I need to buy/carry. Also the larger hard drive as a standard install to me is nice as well. Also I like the "coolness factor" of the aluminum of the powerbook.

Both are great machines. I had a 600 14" iBook G3 and it was a workhorse for me. If I didn't have the funds I would easily get the G4 iBook. Christmas is a good thing. I now have the ability to get the Powerbook and the reasons I stated are some of the reasons I'm getting the powerbook over the iBook.

adamw · Dec 27, 2003, 03:08 PM

Second for me according to the Apple website is that all the new powerbooks come with Bluetooth pre-installed. that for me is Key. I know I could get the dongle for the Bluetooth but it's something extra I need to buy/carry.

Isn't the BT module on-board when ordered with the iBook from Apple? It's not a USB dongle as far as I know.

I'm currently debating the same though, the PB or IB decision...I think I'm set on the 12 inch, just not sure about the PB or IB. I guess I'm a Windoze poweruser and wonder about not being happy with the performance of the IB (even though I'd max the RAM).

Your thoughts are appreciated.

vodkajello · Dec 27, 2003, 08:06 PM

I have been having an internal debate with myself for 3 weeks now about which machine to get.

I'm no further along. There is way too much FUD about spots on screens, batteries not being the right size and motherboard defects.

I still can't decide.

It doesn't help that in Calgary, a city of a million people, I can't seem to find a G4 ibook 12" or 14", or a powerbook AL 12" or 15" anywhere. There are 2 major mac dealers in town, plus a few large electronics places that carry some mac stuff. None of them have had anything for 3-4 weeks of me looking.

How can I buy a product, or make a decision, when I can't even see the thing? I long for an Apple Store! I was in Phoenix earlier this year and had to find a store. Very nice places, with the complete line up of Apple gear. Heaven for shoppers who want to be informed. Too bad there is no damn retail support up here at all.

JCT · Dec 27, 2003, 10:29 PM

adamw,

I am also a Windows poweruser (have a maxed out Voodoo PC Envy m460 laptop on order for the spring to use for work). About 3 weeks ago I took delivery of a 12" iBook with maxed RAM to configure for my lab and fell for it *hard*

. It's the first Mac I have ever used and the form / function / portability is excellent.

So, I decided I had to buy a Mac for myself to be my carry everywhere machine (taking over for a transmeta-based Fujitsu).

After chewing on the decision for a few weeks I ordered a maxed-out 12" PB this time. I knew that I wanted to squeeze every bit of power out of it, I have never regretted getting a more powerful machine

, so I was concerned that if I went with the iBook I would always wonder whether I had made a mistake. Plus the keyboard is definitely better on the PB and I wanted to be able to hook up an external monitor without a hack.

I really like the rugged little iBook (typing on it now), I think that there is no clear right or wrong on this one......

My PB arrives on Monday ....I'll let you know what I think!

Good luck,

JT

WizOSX · Dec 27, 2003, 10:35 PM

JCT--I'm in a similar situation. I am using a 700mhz iBook that I got in March (to replace a Dual 867 MDD PM) to tide me over until just the right machine comes along. I'll be interested in your reaction to the PB versus the iBook!