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You are here: MacNN Forums > Hardware - Troubleshooting and Discussion > Consumer Hardware & Components > all-in-one printer/scanner/fax reccomendations?

all-in-one printer/scanner/fax reccomendations?
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CMYKid
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Dec 12, 2003, 01:13 PM
 
I'm going to need to purchase one of these in the next couple days and really don't have an idea where to begin. feature-wsie the top end ones all seem to be fairly matched thoa t present I'm leaning more towards the Epsons. I'd loike to be able to do some decent scanning of photos as well as soem near laser-quality printing but am really concerned that throwing everything together into one package requires sacrificing a bit of quality on all fronts. If I could find a decent one that incorporated a regular fax and scanner/copier but contained a laser printer instead of a color inkjet I'd be inclined to go that direction.

Any first-hand experience with either sort?
     
GORDYmac
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Dec 12, 2003, 04:29 PM
 
For quality, I'd say go with Epson, but the Canon folk around here seem to swear by Canon's drivers. You can't go wrong with either.

However, I wouldn't recommend a multifunction device. You know, lose one and you lose them all.

Oh, here's a Laser model, the Canon imageCLASS® MF5530. Oops, that's not Mac ready.
     
Severed Hand of Skywalker
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Dec 12, 2003, 04:49 PM
 
they are all bad. Hp has terrible drivers.

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MUGlover
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Dec 12, 2003, 05:12 PM
 
Epson's manuals are online. Check whether you like what their OS X drivers can do. Some functions are more limited than in their Classic drivers (for OS 9). For example, OCR may or may not be supported.

I have a free (after rebates) Epson CX3200 that I got with my Mac but I am in no hurry to take it out of the box until I read more about it. (Not offering to sell, just thinking about when I need to use it and start that ink evaporating).
     
CMYKid  (op)
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Dec 12, 2003, 05:37 PM
 
yeha, i'm less concerned with things such as OCR and more so with print quality and ability to network to print via Airport which of course will probably be a big pain in the ass.
     
tooki
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Dec 12, 2003, 11:43 PM
 
My opinion: don't.

Get separate units. It'll just be better.

And then you can get the ultimate combination of Epson scanner and Canon printer. And driver support. (Epson never supported many of its AIO devices on OS X, while they do support standalone printers and scanners from the same era.)

tooki
     
songoku912
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Dec 13, 2003, 12:28 AM
 
Also the Canon multifunctions are not mac compatible, just pc.
     
monkeyspeak
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Dec 14, 2003, 01:58 AM
 
This March I bought an Epson CX3200. It doesn't have the FAX functionality you're asking about, but it does have a decent scanner/copier feature and it seems like an excellent color and B/W printer.

I've always figured if I wanted to FAX something, I could just scan it and use the built in FAX in Panther.

It's had OS X support from the beginning, and the scanner is supported by Image Capture. The TWAIN drivers work flawlessly with Photoshop 7.

I have 3 macs at home, networked with Airport using a Belkin basestation. (Which, by the way, I think is a piece of crap.) Printer sharing using MacOS X Just Works. Very nicely. Also, I can scan remotely with the Rendezvous feature of Image Capture. I think that is a super-duper cool feature.

Ink isn't cheap, and you have to replace all 3 colors at the same time. But that's to be expected with a consumer-level machine.

Best of all, with rebates and some other miscellaneous discounts I had, my total out of pocket cost for the machine was somewhere around $75!
( Last edited by monkeyspeak; Dec 14, 2003 at 02:04 AM. )
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tooki
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Dec 14, 2003, 12:15 PM
 
Epson's printers are crap now, and the ones in the all-in-one devices are the low end printers. Look at total cost of ownership, not the "just $75" it cost to acquire it. (It'll be cheaper in the long run to use a more expensive printer with cheap consumables.)

Also, if any part of your all-in-one dies, you have to replace the whole thing (or at minimum, you are without ALL the functions while it's being repaired). With separate devices, you only lose the part that died.

Again, just get an Epson (or Canon) scanner, and a Canon printer.

tooki

P.S. It's "fax" not "FAX" -- it's not an acronym, it's an abbreviation of telefacsimile.
     
slider
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Dec 14, 2003, 01:14 PM
 
Well, I can recommend the HP 950 aio or psc. The no longer make this particuliar model, but the new version is similiar; sorry don't have then current model name. First aio are great for space saving. That is why I went with an aio, however, I do not rely on a scanner from what I do, it is simply a nice thing to have when I need it. Plus, this model comes with a built in modem so it functions autonomously from the computer when you need to send a fax. But here is the big "But", if you reley on any induvidual component for your work, definately get seperate components, for all the reasons already stated. HP could definately be doing a better job with their drivers. As far as quality, I could not be happier, this model has compact media readers built for camera storage cards and can also print those pictures autonomously from the computer, so it was meant to produce quality pictures. My biggest complaint has been the hp drivers, which are clearly carbonized. The current work just fine and I had no issues going from Jaguar to Panther. The biggest thing to ask yourself is what you need it for, for space saving and convenience, it can't be bet, for a scanner workhorse, go dedicated. Good luck with your purchase.
     
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Dec 14, 2003, 01:27 PM
 
Originally posted by monkeyspeak:
I've always figured if I wanted to FAX something, I could just scan it and use the built in FAX in Panther.
It is receiving that is more of an issue.

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monkeyspeak
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Dec 14, 2003, 03:55 PM
 
Originally posted by tooki:
Epson's printers are crap now, and the ones in the all-in-one devices are the low end printers. Look at total cost of ownership, not the "just $75" it cost to acquire it. (It'll be cheaper in the long run to use a more expensive printer with cheap consumables.)

Also, if any part of your all-in-one dies, you have to replace the whole thing (or at minimum, you are without ALL the functions while it's being repaired). With separate devices, you only lose the part that died.

Again, just get an Epson (or Canon) scanner, and a Canon printer.

tooki

P.S. It's "fax" not "FAX" -- it's not an acronym, it's an abbreviation of telefacsimile.
Your decision to act like a jerk in this post just makes you look bad.

When I bought the printer, the comparable standalone Epson printer was $75. I wasn't really in the market for a scanner. So I said to myself, "Hey, free scanner!" And since I didn't feel like spending hundreds of dollars up front for the more expensive printers, I didn't care much about the cost of the ink. Any printer ink is expensive.

I'm just letting other people know about my experiences with this scanner- both the pros and the cons as I see them. You have a different opinion, and that's fine. No need to act like an ass and attack others for feeling differently.

So let's just imagine that I'd asked for your advice back in March and bought a high-end Canon printer and an Epson Scanner. Let's see- $200 for the printer, and probably 4 (but maybe more, since they're single color) refill cartidges at $12 a piece, and then another $130 for the scanner. Comes out to about $380, no?

And let's see what I've spent- $75 for the MFP, and 3 cartridges at $30. So in total, I've spent about $165 for my setup so far. I'll probably have this printer for over a year and a half before I hit the break even point where your suggestions would be cheaper. And for my mind, and in my situation, that's a pretty good deal.

If the scanner dies, well, that sucks, because it was essentially free to me. And if the printer breaks, well, that also sucks, but I'm not going to spend money on fixing it, when I can get a better one for less. It's sad but true that printers are disposable nowadays.

Different people have different needs. You need to learn that.

P.S. Where did I say that "FAX" is an acronym? That's right! I didn't! Sure, it's probably an older construction that's fallen out of favor to write the word in all caps, but I still see it used that way in some places.
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monkeyspeak
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Dec 14, 2003, 03:58 PM
 
Originally posted by Immortal K-Mart Employee:
It is receiving that is more of an issue.
Good point. If you expect to be receiving, best to get one that has FAX (or "fax", for tooki) built in.
- Mojo the Monkey
     
Severed Hand of Skywalker
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Dec 14, 2003, 05:03 PM
 
Originally posted by monkeyspeak:
Your decision to act like a jerk in this post just makes you look bad.
No, everything he said about Epsons are true.

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GORDYmac
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Dec 15, 2003, 02:49 PM
 
I saw a Lexmark at Wal-mart over the weekend for 88 dollars. Printer, fax, and scanner. It has OS X drivers. I've nexer used Lexmark, but the price seems good.

But, again, I wouldn't recommend a MF device.
     
tooki
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Dec 16, 2003, 03:12 AM
 
Your decision to act like a jerk in this post just makes you look bad.
You need to take a serious chill pill.
When I bought the printer, the comparable standalone Epson printer was $75. I wasn't really in the market for a scanner. So I said to myself, "Hey, free scanner!" And since I didn't feel like spending hundreds of dollars up front for the more expensive printers, I didn't care much about the cost of the ink. Any printer ink is expensive.
The differences in ink costs are not trivial -- on a $75 Epson, for example, $75 buys you three black ink cartridges that each last 1/2 as long as the $13 cartridges for a $130 Canon. In only a couple of reams of printing, the Epson's ink costs FAR exceed the difference in price of the printer.
I'm just letting other people know about my experiences with this scanner- both the pros and the cons as I see them. You have a different opinion, and that's fine. No need to act like an ass and attack others for feeling differently.
I didn't attack, I provided my professional opinion on the matter.
So let's just imagine that I'd asked for your advice back in March and bought a high-end Canon printer and an Epson Scanner. Let's see- $200 for the printer, and probably 4 (but maybe more, since they're single color) refill cartidges at $12 a piece, and then another $130 for the scanner. Comes out to about $380, no?

And let's see what I've spent- $75 for the MFP, and 3 cartridges at $30. So in total, I've spent about $165 for my setup so far. I'll probably have this printer for over a year and a half before I hit the break even point where your suggestions would be cheaper. And for my mind, and in my situation, that's a pretty good deal.
Yes, situations vary, but again, it doesn't take long for cheap printers' ink costs to far exceed the savings on the purchase price.
If the scanner dies, well, that sucks, because it was essentially free to me. And if the printer breaks, well, that also sucks, but I'm not going to spend money on fixing it, when I can get a better one for less. It's sad but true that printers are disposable nowadays.

Different people have different needs. You need to learn that.
You need to take a serious chill pill.

I don't think you realize that my job (in working with clients) is to determine what's right for each person (and if you were familiar with my style of advice here, you'd know that). What I also do is to point out things that people may not realize -- like the frighteningly high operational costs of low-end printers. I help people figure out what's the best for them in the long run.

I stand by my belief that the cheap printers are never a bargain (at least not when they're from Epson). The argument goes "well, I don't print often, so a high page cost is OK, I won't need to buy ink often." But then what happens is that because the printer's not being used often, it requires more extensive cleaning between uses, consuming vast amounts of ink. (This is an extremely common problem on Epsons, since they clog in no time if they're not used enough.)
P.S. Where did I say that "FAX" is an acronym? That's right! I didn't! Sure, it's probably an older construction that's fallen out of favor to write the word in all caps, but I still see it used that way in some places.
I didn't say that you said that FAX is an acronym, I was relying on common knowledge that acronyms are typically capitalized while abbreviations retain the fundamental capitalization of the full word. The fact is, fax is an abbreviation, and thus should not be all-caps. And just because you see it used doesn't mean it's right.

So just chill out. Nobody was attacking you -- I was just providing what I consider to be the soundest advice around. The person who started the thread can then weigh whose advice to take.

tooki
     
CambAngst
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Dec 16, 2003, 12:11 PM
 
HP's drivers for my 6110 all-in-one were actually pretty decent until 10.3 came out. Now I can't scan from my new G5.

HP had a practically humorous rationalization for not having new drivers:

"As the completed version of Mac OS X 10.3 (Panther) was only recently made available, we have not yet completed the testing of our All-in-One drivers with this new operating system."
This was sent on November 11. Late developer builds of Panther had been available for, what, 3 months by that point? At any rate, rumors are that there will be updated drivers before the end of the year. HP, of course, will not officially commit to any timeline. They only say that you should subscribe to their driver update list. Once you subscribe, they spam you almost daily with unrelated HP services.

Moral of the story? Avoid HP.
     
haifischjunge
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Dec 16, 2003, 09:58 PM
 
I have the hp psc 1210 and i like it very well. mostly i bought due to style and space issues, because is perfectly fits in my office and damn looks good.

about the drivers, i coudnt say anything realy diapointing under 10.2.8. not as cute as the windows drivers, however fine and good working
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mbryda
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Dec 17, 2003, 12:54 PM
 
Originally posted by tooki:

The differences in ink costs are not trivial -- on a $75 Epson, for example, $75 buys you three black ink cartridges that each last 1/2 as long as the $13 cartridges for a $130 Canon. In only a couple of reams of printing, the Epson's ink costs FAR exceed the difference in price of the printer.
Do they, or is your hatred for Epson printers making you blind? Black printing on my Epson 880 and my old 875DC has the same black usage as my Canon i960. Color usage is hands down, Canon, but I'm not sure the advantages are as great as they would lead you to beleive. With my 875, color carts were $20 and included all colors. With my i960, I replaced 2 colors (the photo) @ $20. Next in line will most likely be Black and Yellow at another $20. The total ink cost is like $75 vs $40 for the Epson. But the i960 uses way less ink...

Although I did luck out with the 880 - it doesn't use chips, so the generica cartridges are ~$2/ea. However, I've seen chipped carts for $5 or so. After the warranty runs out, they can be an option.
     
Landos Mustache
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Dec 17, 2003, 01:59 PM
 
Originally posted by mbryda:
Do they, or is your hatred for Epson printers making you blind? Black printing on my Epson 880 and my old 875DC has the same black usage as my Canon i960. Color usage is hands down, Canon, but I'm not sure the advantages are as great as they would lead you to beleive. With my 875, color carts were $20 and included all colors. With my i960, I replaced 2 colors (the photo) @ $20. Next in line will most likely be Black and Yellow at another $20. The total ink cost is like $75 vs $40 for the Epson. But the i960 uses way less ink...
That's nice. HP's have the highest cost per page followed by Epsons. Just because they have the same priced ink cart does not mean they cost the same as one wastes more in the then the other.

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mbryda
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Dec 17, 2003, 02:33 PM
 
Originally posted by Landos Mustache:
That's nice. HP's have the highest cost per page followed by Epsons. Just because they have the same priced ink cart does not mean they cost the same as one wastes more in the then the other.
Actually, the order, from cheapest per page to most expensive is:
1) Canon
2) Epson
3) HP
4) Lexmark
(HP and Lexmark flip-flop, depending on the model)

The HP is easily double the cost per page of the Epson, and the Epson and Canon are very close, probably within a penny or 2.

Form the mfg:
Epson CX3200
Black - 600 pages text
Color - 300 pages

Canon i560 (pointless to do their MFPs since they don't support Macs):
Black - 740 pages
Cyan - 570
Magenta - 440
Yellow - 380
( Last edited by mbryda; Dec 17, 2003 at 02:46 PM. )
     
Landos Mustache
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Dec 17, 2003, 02:59 PM
 
Originally posted by mbryda:

The HP is easily double the cost per page of the Epson, and the Epson and Canon are very close, probably within a penny or 2.
Ya right, what you are not taking into account is the amount of ink head clogging and repeated cleaning that the Epsons do.

With my epson I get perhaps 50 8x10 photos and on the canon I get at least 80-90 of the same. Also the canon has yet to clog or have lines across ONE photo in over 120 printed.

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mbryda
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Dec 17, 2003, 03:15 PM
 
Originally posted by Landos Mustache:
Ya right, what you are not taking into account is the amount of ink head clogging and repeated cleaning that the Epsons do.

With my epson I get perhaps 50 8x10 photos and on the canon I get at least 80-90 of the same. Also the canon has yet to clog or have lines across ONE photo in over 120 printed.
Had my 875DC for 3 years and never had a clog. Same with the 880. I only went Canon after waiting 3 hours for 3 8x10's to come out of the 875. Needed more speed withour sacrificing quality, so Canon was the only way to go.
     
tooki
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Dec 17, 2003, 09:27 PM
 
Originally posted by mbryda:
Do they, or is your hatred for Epson printers making you blind? Black printing on my Epson 880 and my old 875DC has the same black usage as my Canon i960. Color usage is hands down, Canon, but I'm not sure the advantages are as great as they would lead you to beleive. With my 875, color carts were $20 and included all colors. With my i960, I replaced 2 colors (the photo) @ $20. Next in line will most likely be Black and Yellow at another $20. The total ink cost is like $75 vs $40 for the Epson. But the i960 uses way less ink...

Although I did luck out with the 880 - it doesn't use chips, so the generica cartridges are ~$2/ea. However, I've seen chipped carts for $5 or so. After the warranty runs out, they can be an option.
I don't have "blind hatred" for Epsons -- I've owned several and was happy with them at the time. But the fact is, Canon ink is far cheaper. (As for the i960 -- remember, it's a dedicated photo printer, so its black cartridge is appreciably smaller than the large BCI-3eBk cartridge used in the better all-purpose Canons.) Add to this that Canon printers are just plain less aggravating -- better drivers, handy functions like quiet mode and auto power on and off, and don't clog.

Yes, a whole change of Canon inks may cost more in the photo models (especially if you don't buy the multipacks), but they last much longer.

tooki
     
jimf_81
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Dec 18, 2003, 01:48 PM
 
Originally posted by CambAngst:
HP's drivers for my 6110 all-in-one were actually pretty decent until 10.3 came out. Now I can't scan from my new G5.

HP had a practically humorous rationalization for not having new drivers:



This was sent on November 11. Late developer builds of Panther had been available for, what, 3 months by that point? At any rate, rumors are that there will be updated drivers before the end of the year. HP, of course, will not officially commit to any timeline. They only say that you should subscribe to their driver update list. Once you subscribe, they spam you almost daily with unrelated HP services.

Moral of the story? Avoid HP.
I can't agree more. I've had two different HP printers, one ink jet, and one laser (black and white). They worked fine, but HP is terrible, terrible at updating and supporting their drivers, especially after they make a new model. Go with something other than HP who will support your drivers for more than 2-3 years.


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mbryda
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Dec 18, 2003, 01:52 PM
 
Originally posted by tooki:
to this that Canon printers are just plain less aggravating -- better drivers, handy functions like quiet mode and auto power on and off, and don't clog.


I'm not so sure about the clogging - some have issues with it, just like with Epsons. Head over to www.dpreview.com and see. It seems to be something that mostly effects the photo printers, though.


Yes, a whole change of Canon inks may cost more in the photo models (especially if you don't buy the multipacks), but they last much longer.
That may have been true when everyone else had single color cartridges, but now that Epson and Canon have cartridges for each color, I wonder if that's still as big of an issue? I dono - I went Canon for the separate tanks and the fact that it's lightning fast. If Epson made a printer that did a full color, high quality 8x10 in 1.5 mins, I would have stayed with them.
     
Disgruntled Head of C-3PO
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Dec 18, 2003, 01:59 PM
 
Originally posted by tooki:
I don't have "blind hatred" for Epsons -- I've owned several and was happy with them at the time.
tooki
I do have a hatred for Epsons but that is only owning several and wasting tons of money on ink on them. I have never seen any other printer that prints with blank lines or off colours in my life. The stupid things would clog every week also and I spent more ink cleaning it then printing!

My Canon i950 is a printing dream!
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tooki
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Dec 18, 2003, 05:51 PM
 
Originally posted by mbryda:


I'm not so sure about the clogging - some have issues with it, just like with Epsons. Head over to www.dpreview.com and see. It seems to be something that mostly effects the photo printers, though.


That may have been true when everyone else had single color cartridges, but now that Epson and Canon have cartridges for each color, I wonder if that's still as big of an issue? I dono - I went Canon for the separate tanks and the fact that it's lightning fast. If Epson made a printer that did a full color, high quality 8x10 in 1.5 mins, I would have stayed with them.
Unlike an Epson, though, Canon's printheads are replaceable (by the user, no less). And they're a warranty part if it fails during warranty (Epson's aren't).

Not having owned an Epson with separate cartridges, I can't say. But to me, the other downsides of the Epsons alone are enough to steer me to the Canon.

tooki
     
power142
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Dec 21, 2003, 09:21 PM
 
I just picked up the Epson CX6400 that Apple is offering with a $99 rebate.

Print quality is good, fast and relatively quiet, has separate color + black cartridges, seems happy enough printing using Rendezvous plugged into an Airport.

My frame of reference is an HP OfficeJet G85... which never worked over Rendezvous and the drivers from HP were terrible...... would hog the processor when not doing anything.

The only disappointment so far is that it doesn't appear as a device that can be shared in Image Capture (when plugged directly into a computer) and isn't detected as a scanner when plugged into the Airport (but the HP never did either of those either)
     
OreoCookie
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Dec 21, 2003, 11:50 PM
 
How about a laser-all-in-one?

Brother DCP-8025 (no fax)
Brother DCP-8820

The printer unit is rendezvous-enabled (AFAIK one of the very rendezvous printers out there), laser printers are far cheaper in consumables.

Both can talk in PCL6 and Postscript 3.

You can use the scanner and the printer with X. (But this annoying all-in-one software doesn't run on it, good).
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romeosc
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Dec 27, 2003, 11:46 PM
 
I bought 4 HP 750 xi AIO printers for $40 each. They work great under X.3.2 from Walmart (when they were discontinued)...... when they run out of Ink ..... I'll toss one and open another..... cheaper than buying refills!
     
romeosc
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Dec 28, 2003, 12:04 AM
 
I bought 4 HP 750 xi AIO printers for $40 each. They work great under X.3.2 from Walmart (when they were discontinued)...... when they run out of Ink ..... I'll toss one and open another..... cheaper than buying refills!
     
maxintosh
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Dec 28, 2003, 12:05 AM
 
Originally posted by romeosc:
I bought 4 HP 750 xi AIO printers for $40 each. They work great under X.3.2 from Walmart (when they were discontinued)...... when they run out of Ink ..... I'll toss one and open another..... cheaper than buying refills!
LMAO. That's the way I feel about most inkjets. For the price of replacing all the cartridges, you could just buy the newest model. It's really kind of depressing.
     
tooki
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Dec 28, 2003, 08:58 AM
 
I'm sure you could sell the "spent" printer on eBay and get back most if not all of what you paid for it.

That said, my Canon's ink is still cheaper. And it'll print photos faster.

tooki
     
   
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