[ort888]

Originally Posted by Eug 

The PS3 sold 298% more than usual (or was that 298% as much?) after the intro of the 40 GB PS3 (Nov. 2) thru Nov. 24 in North America. During that month the PS3 also outsold the Wii in Japan.

I know the press release you're talking about. They claimed to have sold 245% more then they did the week after Black Friday last year. The problem is that the PS3 was sold out everywhere last year on black friday, because it was a week after launch.

Every console sells 3 times as much in November. It's not really an accomplishment. Miscrosoft also released a press release (in response to Sony) in which they stated that they had outsold the PS3 2 to 1 in the exact same time frame.

We'll get new NPD numbers on Thursday I think.

[icruise]

Originally Posted by ort888 

We'll get new NPD numbers on Thursday I think.

Which people will dismiss out of hand.

[analogue SPRINKLES]

Originally Posted by ort888 

I know the press release you're talking about. They claimed to have sold 298% more then they did last Black Friday. The problem is that the PS3 was sold out everywhere last year on black friday, because it was a week after launch.

It's true but you have to remember even with the low launch sales and poor month it still beat HD-DVD within one month of the PS3 coming out.

1 year later and the PS3 is selling even more.

Now keep in mind how many PS3 owners must be using it for BR movies. Lots.

[ort888]

I think it's obvious that Blu-ray is going to win. If they can manage to get a $200 player out there in the next few months, they will have this in the bag.

Even though I have an HD DVD player, I would love to see the format war end. I would also like to see sony doing better in the console game. All 3 companies scare and annoy me for different reasons, and I think all three need to remain competitive for the consumer's benefit.

[goMac]

Originally Posted by TETENAL 

"Your backups are always up to date" means you don't have historical backups. That can become a huge problem when you months or years later realize you are missing some data. And that's not theoretical. I actually once lost very important data and only realized 3 years later. It was gone for good, because I didn't have a proper backup.

How so? I use Time Machine, which is incremental and historical. My source code is stored in SVN, which is again, incremental (in the scope of the entire project) and historical. I can easily pull a file from a few months ago.

Originally Posted by TETENAL 

Since then I make a monthly backup on optical media and I carry it to a safe deposit box of my bank (I had daily backups on hard disk, but they didn't reach back far enough, and I now have daily backups with Time Machine). I can expect this backup on optical discs to be readable for at least 10 years, which is maximum time you are legally required to keep records. I don't get this with a clone of my current hard disk. Regardless of whether I have one, two or one hundred clones.

Sorry, can't do monthly backups. It leaves the potential for me to lose a few weeks of data, which turns into a loss of a few weeks of man hours. Besides, hard drive backups are historical, up to date, and I don't have to think about them.

[Kenneth]

I have a 60GB PS3. Now, I started to look at the HD-DVD offering. Personally, I don't like Toshiba. What's the other option I have for budget standalone player?

[jokell82]

Originally Posted by analogue SPRINKLES 

For the last 12 months BR has been outselling HD by a large margin since the PS3 launched.

BR has more studio support and more movies.

PS3 sales have gone way up lately (not that it matters as HD fans will tell you 9% of PS3 owners use the BR player apparently).

HD-DVD sells more "Stand alone players" which is a big deal for some reason. Personally I think $200 is too much for something that does nothing but play movies.

The 3:2 advantage that Blu-Ray has with the low quantities of discs sold does not equal a "large margin" - but Blu-Ray is in the lead.

And more studio support equates to approximately the same number of movies released on both formats...

[exca1ibur]

Originally Posted by Kenneth 

I have a 60GB PS3. Now, I started to look at the HD-DVD offering. Personally, I don't like Toshiba. What's the other option I have for budget standalone player?

That's kinda of the problem. With prices so low, there is no way for anyone else, making an HD-DVD player, to make any money. You will pretty much see Toshiba going it alone for a while.

[TETENAL]

Originally Posted by goMac 

Sorry, can't do monthly backups. It leaves the potential for me to lose a few weeks of data, which turns into a loss of a few weeks of man hours.

You can't do a monthly backup to an optical disc because you do daily ones to a hard drive? I'm afraid I don't follow your logic.

Originally Posted by goMac 

I can easily pull a file from a few months ago.

You can pull a file from 3 years ago from your hard drive? A file from 10 years ago? You must have really large backup drives available.

[goMac]

Originally Posted by TETENAL 

You can't do a monthly backup to an optical disc because you do daily ones to a hard drive? I'm afraid I don't follow your logic.

Why would I do a monthly backup to an optical disk when I have daily backups?

Originally Posted by TETENAL 

You can pull a file from 3 years ago from your hard drive? A file from 10 years ago? You must have really large backup drives available.

My laptops internal hard drive is 100 gigabytes. The hard drive on my desk is 500 gigabytes. It's going to be a while before that fills up. When I buy a Mac Pro when the new ones come out, I'm putting at least a 1 terrabyte drive in there for time machine.

[Kenneth]

Originally Posted by exca1ibur 

That's kinda of the problem. With prices so low, there is no way for anyone else, making an HD-DVD player, to make any money. You will pretty much see Toshiba going it alone for a while.

By looking up the list of standalone HD DVD players on wikipedia, there ain't any low-end non-Toshiba brand on the market.

[jokell82]

Originally Posted by Kenneth 

By looking up the list of standalone HD DVD players on wikipedia, there ain't any low-end non-Toshiba brand on the market.

Except for the Venture which retails for $100 cheaper than the low-end Toshiba...

[mrtew]

Originally Posted by goMac 

Why would I do a monthly backup to an optical disk when I have daily backups?



My laptops internal hard drive is 100 gigabytes. The hard drive on my desk is 500 gigabytes. It's going to be a while before that fills up. When I buy a Mac Pro when the new ones come out, I'm putting at least a 1 terrabyte drive in there for time machine.

Some people have totally different concepts of what a backup is. They keep important data on a hard media in a remote location or at least another room so they will still have it years or decades later. That has little to do with your daily time machine backup drive. If you won't be interested in BluRay backups, know that many other people will.

[jokell82]

Next wave of HDTV adopters may lean towards HD DVD:

Originally Posted by http://www.engadgethd.com/2007/12/11/next-wave-of-hdtv-adopters-may-lean-towards-hd-dvd/

If there's one group that likes the format war, it's market analysts. The latest prognostication comes from The Diffusion Group (TDG), which looked at consumers intending to bite into the HD fruit in the next six months. These "HDTV Intenders" tend to, among other things, have a lower income than the "early adopters" who have already taken the HD plunge. But here's the rub: among these "HDTV Intenders," TDG finds that 43% prefer HD DVD and 27% Blu-ray. If that figure holds up, will it be enough to decide the format war? TDG expects this group of mass-market buyers to open their wallets as the early adopter wave settles down in he beginning of 2008. No doubt about it, we've seen growing evidence that both HDM camps are reaching for lower price points.

As one commenter points out on that story, that's a very similar percentage breakdown we saw in the Amazon customer vote deal that had both HD and BD. Granted it's all speculation at this point, though...

[Eug]

Originally Posted by jokell82 

Except for the Venture which retails for $100 cheaper than the low-end Toshiba...

Venturer.

It should be noted though it IS the low-end Toshiba. Alco Electronics, the parent company of Venturer, also happens to be Chinese manufacturer for Toshiba's HD-A3. We're told that as part of Alco's contract, it's allowed to rebrand the A3 for sale under its own brand.

The internals of the units are 100% identical, as disassembly has already shown. The only difference is the faceplate, and a bit of the organization of the setup menus. The firmwares are the same revisions however, and firmware udpates are done identically.

IOW, in truth, it's not really a different player, but OTOH, you basically get a Toshiba product for a much lower price, with the firmware update schedule being the same as Toshiba's as well. For these reasons, I have no problems whatsoever recommending the Venturer to people. It's a good product for a great price.

It also puts to rest the arguments that Toshiba loses money on the manufacturing of $200 players. Venturer has no patents in HD DVD, so Venturer has no desire to lose money on players sold. Thus, their price for the player must include profit for them. The MSRP for the Venturer is $199.99 both in Canada and the US, which means their wholesale price is much lower than that, and their manufacturing cost is much lower than that again. ie. I wouldn't be surprised if it costs only about $95-130 to make one of these players.

[exca1ibur]

Originally Posted by Eug 

Venturer.It also puts to rest the arguments that Toshiba loses money on the manufacturing of $200 players. Venturer has no patents in HD DVD, so Venturer has no desire to lose money on players sold. Thus, their price for the player must include profit for them. The MSRP for the Venturer is $199.99 both in Canada and the US, which means their wholesale price is much lower than that, and their manufacturing cost is much lower than that again. ie. I wouldn't be surprised if it costs only about $95-130 to make one of these players.

If it costs them $95-130 in wholesale... and Toshiba is competing by selling players at $99... If you try to match, you aren't making much of anything for profit.

[analogue SPRINKLES]

Since black friday Sony has been selling 200,000 PS3 a WEEK. If only 50% of those people get a BR movie that is still 100,000 new BR users a week.

And:


Samsung's BD-P1400 Blu-ray player dips to $270 - Engadget HD

[analogue SPRINKLES]

Originally Posted by jokell82 

The 3:2 advantage that Blu-Ray has with the low quantities of discs sold does not equal a "large margin" - but Blu-Ray is in the lead.

So far this year BR sold TWICE as many disks as HD. That is a huge difference.

[jokell82]

Originally Posted by analogue SPRINKLES 

So far this year BR sold TWICE as many disks as HD. That is a huge difference.

Apparently it wasn't a huge advantage for Paramount or Dreamworks...

[icruise]

Originally Posted by jokell82 

Apparently it wasn't a huge advantage for Paramount or Dreamworks...

That's the best you can do?

[Eug]

Originally Posted by icruise 

That's the best you can do?

I think it's a pretty good indication of the poor sales on both sides.

Originally Posted by exca1ibur 

If it costs them $95-130 in wholesale... and Toshiba is competing by selling players at $99... If you try to match, you aren't making much of anything for profit.

Toshiba didn't sell them for $99, Wal-Mart did. Wal-Mart's cost price is $185, at least according to Wal-Mart. ie. It was a loss leader sale.

[ort888]

I think his point is that, yes, while Blu-ray has been outselling Hd DVD 2:1, that sales of both formats are pretty much completely miserable.

[analogue SPRINKLES]

Originally Posted by ort888 

I think his point is that, yes, while Blu-ray has been outselling Hd DVD 2:1, that sales of both formats are pretty much completely miserable.

It serves the studio's right that it is selling poorly though. They are taking way to damn long to release movies and TV shows on either format. The fact that BSG season 1 just came out last week is pathetic. If anything they should have them all out by now.

Not to mention this war is taking to long. I seriously am at the point where I could care less who wins as long as one of them does and more movies come out.

If I was working at the studio's I would release all the movies I possibly could the first day a player hits the market. That's how you win.

[icruise]

On the one hand, it's true that if one side or the other got off its butt and actually started putting out way more titles than the other (including the major releases) that they would be much more likely to win. But I think studios like to spread out their releases, since it makes it more likely for people to buy them and also makes it easier to promote the releases. They don't want to release their whole catalog at once. Plus it's a big gamble if they release huge amounts of stuff and for whatever reason their side fails.

But yes, I agree that neither side really seems to be fully behind their format in some ways, and if they aren't fully committed how can they expect the consumer to be?

[exca1ibur]

Originally Posted by icruise 

But yes, I agree that neither side really seems to be fully behind their format in some ways, and if they aren't fully committed how can they expect the consumer to be?

I agree. It's all chicken and the egg. Consumers are waiting for studios and to commit, and studios are waiting for a user base. Someone has to man up and take the first step or this is going to extend the transition for years longer than it needs to be.

Seems to me the strategy it to play not to loose, instead of playing to win.

[Eug]

Originally Posted by analogue SPRINKLES 

It serves the studio's right that it is selling poorly though. They are taking way to damn long to release movies and TV shows on either format. The fact that BSG season 1 just came out last week is pathetic. If anything they should have them all out by now.

Tell me about it. I ended up finally ordering BSG Season 1 but I almost didn't, because I was pissed off they're so far behind in the seasons.

I didn't buy BSG Razor on DVD either. I just don't want to invest in DVD anymore whenever I can help it. (I'll buy it for my nephew though.)

P.S. There are perils to being format neutral...

People are getting their Harry Potter box sets today... with a few finding that one or more of the discs is from the other format.

Oops.

[Eug]

Got my Star Trek discs today. Nice looking packaging, but a little annoying to open and close. No damage to the case.

The new CGI is generally very well done. Tasteful and unobtrusive. A couple of areas look too CG, but most don't.

The image quality for the original footage is variable, ranging from good to excellent. On my projector, some scenes are crisp HD, but some are softer. Better than upscaled DVD, but not like recent HD. And a couple of scenes are simply out of focus. I'm not talking about those soft lit soft-focus shots for the women, but just bad filming. For example, in one part Bones is bent forward towards the camera, and it seems he's too close for the lens to focus on his face, so he's a bit out of focus. Maybe they just didn't have the time/money to reshoot the scene I dunno. Grain from the original print is obvious in many scenes, but I expected that.

With the added detail from HD, I was worried that things would look too fake. However, overall it doesn't, at least not much more than the DVD. OTOH, the cleaned up video is very nice as are the tasteful CGI additions, all with a resolution at better than upscaled DVD quality.

If you're into the original Star Trek, this is most definitely recommended.

[imitchellg5]

My family just purchased a Samsung HD-DVD player. If we have it, that means it wins, since we only got a DVD player 2 years ago We're really slow to upgrade, ha ha.

[Eug]

Originally Posted by imitchellg5 

My family just purchased a Samsung HD-DVD player. If we have it, that means it wins, since we only got a DVD player 2 years ago We're really slow to upgrade, ha ha.

I'm not sure if you're joking or not, but there is no such thing as a dedicated Samsung HD DVD player... unless you're talking about:

1) Samsung's hybrid Blu-ray / HD DVD player. I doubt it cuz that player is $$$$.

2) A Samsung upconverting DVD player. Those aren't HD DVD players though.

[ort888]

Originally Posted by icruise 

Plus it's a big gamble if they release huge amounts of stuff and for whatever reason their side fails.

No it's not. It's a win, because some people will end up buying it twice.

The cost of these is making the master. Putting it on Blu-ray or HD DVD is nothing once the transfer is done.

[goMac]

Has anyone here had trouble with BSG on the XBox 360 player? I know one person that was having an issue but it almost sounded like bad discs.

[Eug]

Originally Posted by ort888 

No it's not. It's a win, because some people will end up buying it twice.

The cost of these is making the master. Putting it on Blu-ray or HD DVD is nothing once the transfer is done.

Actually, that is not true.

According to the disc authors, it costs roughly twice as much to release on two formats. Why? Cuz the programming is completely different between the two formats.

The only thing that can be shared is the encode, but that's one of the easiest parts of the process.

[pman68]

Looks like Harry Potter HDDVD is outselling the Blu version:

Amazon Sales Ranks: Best Sellers (Blu-ray & HD DVD Combined) | High-Def Digest

At least at amazon.

[analogue SPRINKLES]

Originally Posted by pman68 

Looks like Harry Potter HDDVD is outselling the Blu version.

Probably because there is HD-DVD disks in the BR box

[Eug]

Originally Posted by pman68 

Looks like Harry Potter HDDVD is outselling the Blu version:

Amazon Sales Ranks: Best Sellers (Blu-ray & HD DVD Combined) | High-Def Digest

At least at amazon.

Yeah, at least at Amazon. It does seem that as the hi-def discs become more common, Amazon's numbers are becoming less representative. Early on my impression was that Amazon was a fairly good indicator, but that was because so many stores didn't have any hi-def discs at all, so people had to get the discs online anyway. Now that so many brick&mortar stores carry hi-def media, the sales ranking differences of Amazon vs. overall are getting bigger. Overall, I expect Harry Potter to sell better on Blu-ray. Unfortunately, we will never know the exact numbers, because Warner doesn't publish them.

However, the more interesting part at Amazon is that Planet Earth on HD DVD is beating them all... In fact, PE HD DVD has been the #1 hi-def Amazon seller for the past week. It's currently #11 for all of DVD there.

P.S. Speaking of comparative Amazon stats, I find this Blu-ray fan-boy site amusing.

Blu-Crew Warner HD DVD vs. Blu-ray stats

Out of the 100 Warner titles tracked at Amazon, currently 44 titles rank higher on Blu-ray Disc and 56 rank higher on HD DVD.

The average Blu-ray rank is currently 8910 and the average HD DVD rank is 7990.

[analogue SPRINKLES]

Report: 'Pirates' Blu-ray Sales Top 160k Units | High-Def Digest

[icruise]

Actually the sales are split between the 4th Harry Potter movie on its own and the 4-disc set, which includes the 4th movie. I'm sure if you were to combine the two, BR would be higher. The HD-DVD version of the set isn't even in the top ten.

[ort888]

No Country For Old Men is coming to Blu-ray in March. No HD DVD. Blech.

I think I'll go take advantage of that Sony Style store $100 off deal. I could get a PS3 for only $299.

Not just for this movie obviously, but because more movies I want to see seem to be on Blu-ray.

Since I already have a $98 Hd DVD player... I could have both format covered and a PS3 for games for just $400. That's not too bad at all when you think about it.

I'll also have to buy an HDMI switch box though, since my receiver is currently full. That will be another $50.

[analogue SPRINKLES]

'Saw IV' Blu-ray to Feature Web-Enabled "MoLog" | High-Def Digest

[jokell82]

Originally Posted by analogue SPRINKLES 

'Saw IV' Blu-ray to Feature Web-Enabled "MoLog" | High-Def Digest

Best part of that article:

At press time, it still wasn't clear whether there would be any Blu-ray players compatible with the new technology at launch.

[imitchellg5]

Originally Posted by Eug 

I'm not sure if you're joking or not, but there is no such thing as a dedicated Samsung HD DVD player... unless you're talking about:

1) Samsung's hybrid Blu-ray / HD DVD player. I doubt it cuz that player is $$$$.

2) A Samsung upconverting DVD player. Those aren't HD DVD players though.

Actually, we have both. My dad just picked them up yesterday, haven't seen them yet.

[analogue SPRINKLES]

Originally Posted by jokell82 

Best part of that article:

Ya just like 51 gig HD-DVD disks.

[ort888]

Those NPD numbers...

Hardware Unit Sales

Nintendo DS 1.53 million
Wii 981K
Xbox 360 770K
PSP 567K
PlayStation 2 496K
PlayStation 3 466K

November 2007 Top 10 Video Games Rank # Units
1. Call of Duty 4: Modern Warfare (Xbox 360) -- 1,570,000
2. Super Mario Galaxy (Wii) -- 1,120,000
3. Assassin's Creed (Xbox 360) -- 980,000
4. Guitar Hero III: Legends of Rock (PlayStation 2) -- 967,000
5. Wii Play w/ Remote (Wii) -- 564,000
6. Mass Effect (Xbox 360) -- 473,000
7. Call of Duty 4: Modern Warfare (PlayStation 3) -- 444,000
8. Guitar Hero III: Legends of Rock (Wii) -- 426,000
9. Halo 3 (Xbox 360) -- 387,000
10. Assassin's Creed (PlayStation 3) -- 377,000

[goMac]

Having been out at electronics stores several times the biggest issue I've seen is the $400 PS3 doesn't have backwards compatibility. I heard a conversation between a guy, his girlfriend, and a salesman that literally went like this:

Guy: "So will it play my Playstation 2 games?"
Salesman: "Nope."
Guy: "Playstation 1 games?"
Salesman: "Nope."
Girlfriend: "So ummmm... really you'd just be getting this for Bluray movies than..."

Honestly, I'm surprised the Best Buy salesman didn't tell him the $400 PS3 could play his PS1 and PS2 games.

[goMac]

Originally Posted by PaperNotes 

I studied psychology. Don't even waste your time playing that game with me like you did with others on this forum who you threatened to sue because they made you feel bad. That was weak man. Every time you deny it a new round of private messages fire away behind your back.

So I've been quietly wondering... Does anyone actually have this supposed quote where I threatened to sue somebody? (The idea that I would actually sue someone on these forums is pretty ridiculous, with my oh-so-large student budget... but still, would be interesting to see what this is all about... and Google didn't find anything...)

[Stogieman]

Originally Posted by ort888 

Those NPD numbers...

Hardware Unit Sales

Nintendo DS 1.53 million
Wii 981K
Xbox 360 770K
PSP 567K
PlayStation 2 496K
PlayStation 3 466K

A year after launch and the PS3 is still being outsold by the PS2? Damn.

[jokell82]

Originally Posted by analogue SPRINKLES 

Ya just like 51 gig HD-DVD disks.

You're right - new technology just approved by the HD DVD board with no known consumer release schedule and a movie coming out next month are exactly the same!

[Eug]

Originally Posted by ort888 

Those NPD numbers...

Gamasutra - November Sees DS, Wii Swell, COD4, Mario, Assassin's Tops Charts

Finally, NPD showed that game accessories were up 52% to $243 million. Said Frazier, "We get asked a lot about the performance of the 360 HD-DVD add-on. Life-to-date sales of this accessory are 269K units in the U.S., representing a 3.4% attach rate to the 360 install base."

With a 3.4% attach rate and 0.269 million HD DVD players, that means 7.9 million 360s in the US until the end of November. That also suggests about 500000 standalone Toshiba players up until that time.

[analogue SPRINKLES]

Originally Posted by jokell82 

You're right - new technology just approved by the HD DVD board with no known consumer release schedule and a movie coming out next month are exactly the same!

Sure is better than not knowing if your current HD-DVD player might not be able to play 51 gig disks in a the future.

[icruise]

Originally Posted by analogue SPRINKLES 

Sure is better than not knowing if your current HD-DVD player might not be able to play 51 gig disks in a the future.

I don't know about that, especially if the 51 gig discs never become commonly used. This issue of having to update the BR player software every few months is getting old. They need to finalize the standard and stick to it for a while.