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You are here: MacNN Forums > Hardware - Troubleshooting and Discussion > Mac Notebooks > Is Apple trying to screw me over?

Is Apple trying to screw me over?
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moofman
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Nov 8, 2004, 04:32 AM
 
Yes, I've dropped my computer. I'm a college student and my computer resides in my joyfully padding-free messenger bag (and please don't turn this into a giant thread about how stupid is to carry an aluminum computer around with no padding). But the power-button problem started long after my last dent-worthy drop. Basically, what happens is the power button only works once for about every twenty or thirty presses. That, normally, wouldn't be a problem, but I'm being plagued by the whole everything-but-the-mouse freeze right now, which means having a dysfunctional power-button is slightly obnoxious. So, as an AppleCare owner, I sent my power-book in to get it fixed. The Apple Rep and the good guys over in Hardware Repair are telling me that I'm going to have to pay over half the price of the computer itself in order to replace the logic board, as the computer appears physically damaged. The computer runs fine (other than that freeze), and shows no signs of a erratic behavior that I haven't been having for a while or would make me think I've got a cracked logic board. Is apple trying to rob me of a grand, or is there a real possibility that I'm going to have to replace my entire logic board for the power button? Or should I just get it back and take it to the nearest Apple Repairman and get him to crack it open and re-solder the power-button to the logic board? The problem just doesn't seem to be serious enough to warrant the grand.

Other option. If I have no choice other than ponying up a grand, should I just order a new 12" iBook instead of spending it fixing the 15" AlBook (keep in mind aside from a few things I don't use that often, the iBook now matches my AlBook's specs [aside from screen size])? With the educational discount, I could actually get the iBook for cheaper than the repair. Could I use the spare parts from the PowerBook (Screen [as in, make it external], HD, RAM) to just upgrade and add on to the iBook? Or would it be better to get my PowerBook repaired?
     
Maflynn
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Nov 8, 2004, 08:00 AM
 
Originally posted by moofman:
Yes, I've dropped my computer. I'm a college student and my computer resides in my joyfully padding-free messenger bag (and please don't turn this into a giant thread about how stupid is to carry an aluminum computer around with no padding). But the power-button problem started long after my last dent-worthy drop.
Unfortunitly for you Apple doens't know this problem existed before you dropped it, all they know is that there's physical damage and its not working as it should.

A stock ibook 12" is 900 (with edu discount). Will the cost of the repair be more then that? if so and your use of an unpadded messanger bag, you should opt for the ibook.

Mike
     
Powaqqatsi
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Nov 8, 2004, 09:06 AM
 
I agree that Apple's repair prices are insane. And needing a new logic board to change the power button is bull.
     
-Q-
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Nov 8, 2004, 09:50 AM
 
Crappy situation, but I don't think they're trying to rip you off. If your PB took a nasty fall, that very well could have caused the crack in the logic board. Or it could have existed prior to the fall. Either way, as mentioned above, the Apple techs are just going by what they can see. And it looks like a powerbook took a nasty fall and that's not a manufacturing defect.

And if the 12" is cheaper, I'd go for it.
     
jamil5454
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Nov 8, 2004, 11:09 AM
 
My 12" iBook is my hero.
     
iREZ
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Nov 8, 2004, 12:36 PM
 
Yeah I know talk about crappy situations, My window in my car wouldn't roll down and before I could take it in last week I crashed my car and screwed up the entire front end of my car. I took it to the dealership because it was still under warranty and asked them to repair it and they had the odacity to not fix my car, can you believe that. People these days.....

Your better off getting an iBook instead of paying outrageous prices for repairing your own 'book.
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moofman  (op)
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Nov 8, 2004, 09:47 PM
 
Originally posted by iREZ:
Yeah I know talk about crappy situations, My window in my car wouldn't roll down and before I could take it in last week I crashed my car and screwed up the entire front end of my car. I took it to the dealership because it was still under warranty and asked them to repair it and they had the odacity to not fix my car, can you believe that. People these days.....

Your better off getting an iBook instead of paying outrageous prices for repairing your own 'book.
I wasn't complaining about the fact that they wouldn't fix it. I was trying to see if it was really necessary to get the logic board fixed if all I needed was a good soldering for my power button. No, I'm not happy about shelling out a grand, but who would be in this situation?

Anyway, I guess I'll go for the iBook. Goodbye my not-so-wonderous-but-still-loved PowerBook...
     
BenN
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Nov 9, 2004, 12:18 AM
 
Originally posted by moofman:
I wasn't complaining about the fact that they wouldn't fix it. I was trying to see if it was really necessary to get the logic board fixed if all I needed was a good soldering for my power button.
How do you know that its just the button itself that is broken? Its certainly possible that the logic board itself was damaged in the fall.
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Casper Crane
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Nov 9, 2004, 12:47 AM
 
Originally posted by iREZ:
Yeah I know talk about crappy situations, My window in my car wouldn't roll down and before I could take it in last week I crashed my car and screwed up the entire front end of my car. I took it to the dealership because it was still under warranty and asked them to repair it and they had the odacity to not fix my car, can you believe that. People these days.....
if you're going to be a wiseass, you should at least check your speeling.
     
moofman  (op)
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Nov 9, 2004, 01:01 AM
 
Originally posted by BenN:
How do you know that its just the button itself that is broken? Its certainly possible that the logic board itself was damaged in the fall.
That's what I was saying... If there was no fall that was significant enough for me to notice which would prompt the powerbutton to fail, and my computer was showing no signs of, say, a cracked logic board before I sent it in (other than the standard freezing event that a lot of people have been having problems with), it seems to me that it's just the power button that somehow got loosened. Especially since the power button still works sometimes, and when it does work, the computer runs fine, aside from the common freezing problem. So if I could just get it sent back to me, take it up to a computer store somewhere, crack the case and get 'em to solder the connection back, why should I pay a grand for Apple to replace it?

I, in my personal, daily, extensive usage of the computer have seen no signs of a cracked logic board. Only a disconnected powerbutton. Even prior to the powerbutton problem, which was not related to a fall, I saw no problems. So if I'm having no problems other than the unsolved everything-but-the-mouse freeze, and there is a possibility that I can just fix the powerbutton, why would I want to pay a thousand bucks?

But, if a failed powerbutton is almost always related to a cracked logic board, should I pay the grand and keep my old computer, or pay the grand for a new computer? And the general concensus seems to be that I should just get the iBook.

The defense rests.
     
iREZ
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Nov 9, 2004, 03:07 AM
 
moofman, you mention that your power button still works sometimes but the PB still acts screwy and freezes. How often are these freezes and what causes them, ie. is there something you do which triggers it or is it out of the blue?
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Casper Crane
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Nov 9, 2004, 03:14 AM
 
Originally posted by iREZ:
What are you talking about odacity is spelled right, how bouts you go grab a dictionary and check your spelling.
you know what, maybe i should give you the benefit of the doubt. you might be from a different nation than myself, and spell things differently...

nevermind. we're in the same county even.
     
Ω
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Nov 9, 2004, 03:24 AM
 
Originally posted by Casper Crane:
you know what, maybe i should give you the benefit of the doubt. you might be from a different nation than myself, and spell things differently...

nevermind. we're in the same county even.
Hmmm

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=odacity



Maybe....

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=audacity
     
mismith
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Nov 9, 2004, 03:34 AM
 
I hoped my odition would go smoothly, but there was something wrong with my odio file and the odience only heard static, so I got in my ODI and drove home.
     
moofman  (op)
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Nov 9, 2004, 03:43 AM
 
Originally posted by iREZ:
moofman, you mention that your power button still works sometimes but the PB still acts screwy and freezes. How often are these freezes and what causes them, ie. is there something you do which triggers it or is it out of the blue?
See this: http://forums.macnn.com/showthread.p...hreadid=199524

They didn't start until I updated to 10.3.5...
     
iREZ
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Nov 10, 2004, 01:06 PM
 
Damn, you caught it before I got to take it down. Audacity, my bad.....I'll run spell check before my next wiseass post.
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urrl78
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Nov 10, 2004, 01:24 PM
 
If you decide on the 12" I would take the 15" apart myself and try to detect the problem first. If I could not find the problem I would perhaps buy the 12", but if I DO discover the problem I am home free. Wrecking the 15" further is a moot point if you are buying the 12" anyway. There are take apart manuals on the internet now.
     
Maflynn
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Nov 10, 2004, 02:05 PM
 
Originally posted by urrl78:
If you decide on the 12" I would take the 15" apart myself and try to detect the problem first.
That's an excellent idea.
     
Since EBCDIC
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Nov 10, 2004, 02:47 PM
 
You might want to hold off with that purchase.

It's been widely reported that the 10.3.6 Combo Update (91 MB) fixes the freeze issue. It certainly has for me.

And if you set the "restart after power failure" option in Energy Saver (IIRC) then it'll start up after you yank the battery & power cord.

Good luck with it all.
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buffalolee
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Nov 10, 2004, 03:08 PM
 
You should have insured your iBook.
     
moofman  (op)
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Nov 10, 2004, 08:51 PM
 
Originally posted by urrl78:
If you decide on the 12" I would take the 15" apart myself and try to detect the problem first. If I could not find the problem I would perhaps buy the 12", but if I DO discover the problem I am home free. Wrecking the 15" further is a moot point if you are buying the 12" anyway. There are take apart manuals on the internet now.
I was planning on doing that, actually. My only problem is that I don't really know how to do soldering, and if it is fixable, then I don't wanna be the one to practice doing it on a logic board. The problem is that the only computer store in my area (Small Texas towns... gotta love) refuses to even touch a mac, despite my insistence that I don't care about the warranty because if it doesn't work I'm getting a new computer anyway.

And if you set the "restart after power failure" option in Energy Saver (IIRC) then it'll start up after you yank the battery & power cord.
God, I'd never seen that before and I was looking for something like that... Thanks a bunch. I feel like an idiot for not actually looking for that option.
     
bighead
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Nov 11, 2004, 07:20 PM
 
If the PMU is not working, as it controls power to pretty much everything on the machine, you're looking at a new logic board. It's also possible for internal connectors to be damaged by the drop(s) that the computer has suffered, and if it is not possible to properly reseat the appropriate cables, then you would need to replace the board as well.

While you're complaining about the cost to repair an accidentally damaged laptop, you should take a look at the cost to repair an accidentally damaged car. It is equally "unreasonable." Why do you think insurance companies declare vehicles total losses rather than pay twice the value of the car to have it repaired?
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vinster
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Nov 12, 2004, 01:57 AM
 
Originally posted by moofman:
I was planning on doing that, actually. My only problem is that I don't really know how to do soldering, and if it is fixable, then I don't wanna be the one to practice doing it on a logic board.

moofman - have you read the 15" take apart manual? There is no soldiering in relation to the power button. The 15" uses "Power-on pads" which are two pads on the logic board. When shorted together (with a tool like the head of a flat blade screwdriver) it is the equivalent to pushing the power-on button. These pads are located near the edge of the logic board, just above center of the hard drive. It is marked POWER BUTTON. The pads are separated with a vertical white line (see p. 6).

The power button on the 15" Al simply 'shorts' these pads.

My guess is you've knocked something out of whack and the power switch is no longer bridging the power-on pads.
     
moofman  (op)
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Nov 14, 2004, 09:41 PM
 
No, I didn't know that... Thanks a lot, though. I'll check that out and see if that's it...
     
macgfx
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Nov 15, 2004, 02:41 AM
 
Even in the condition that your Powerbook is in it would still bring $500+could go for as much as $900 you add the $900 that you were going to spend on the iBook you could get a new 12" Powerbook or a refurb 15". I'd get a secound Tech outside of Apple to look at it before I shelled out 1K. Years ago I had a 5300c repaired for $350 rather than the 2K logic board swap Apple wanted to do.

If that's the 1Ghz Alum PB with FW800 I can get you the LogicBoard for $800 with 6 month warranty, it is Used. So shop around before you buy.
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moofman  (op)
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Nov 15, 2004, 04:54 AM
 
Okay, so I cracked open the powerbook and I can't see anything wrong with it. Of coure, I don't know exactly what I'm loking for, but I don't have a screwdriver small enough to take out the one piece that is the actual power-button connector...

Anyway, you mentioned that even though the computer is essentially dead, I could still fetch a few hundred for it. If I kept the RAM and harddrive for my next computer, how much would the rest be worth?
     
macgfx
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Nov 15, 2004, 02:26 PM
 
Originally posted by moofman:
Okay, so I cracked open the powerbook and I can't see anything wrong with it. Of coure, I don't know exactly what I'm loking for, but I don't have a screwdriver small enough to take out the one piece that is the actual power-button connector...

Anyway, you mentioned that even though the computer is essentially dead, I could still fetch a few hundred for it. If I kept the RAM and harddrive for my next computer, how much would the rest be worth?
With the Case being beat up from falls and you removing the Ram and HD I'd say $450 to $500, if the screen is still in good shape. If the PowerBook still boots after pressing the powerbotton many times it should be fixable. Also if you still have the Boxes and manuals CD's etc. that came with it, that could help in the final price.

I'll put my money were my mouth is and offer $450 for it with out the HD and Ram,should you decide to sell don't for less than that.
Joy!peffpwpc
     
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Nov 15, 2004, 02:41 PM
 
You could always try and sell it to www.pbparts.com . They seems to have secondhand parts for the last 2-3 series of Apple PowerBooks.
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moofman  (op)
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Nov 15, 2004, 05:12 PM
 
Well, I ended up leaving the RAM in, and PB Fix it offered me $750. So that, along with me selling my Apple stock should give me enough to get the 12" iBook. Anyone got any good or bad comments on PB Fix It?

Oh, and thanks for everybody's help.
     
macgfx
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Nov 16, 2004, 01:05 AM
 
$750 seems more than fair, let us know how the deal goes through.
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mitchell_pgh
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Nov 16, 2004, 11:36 AM
 
I don't think Apple is screwing you over. They are doing their job. Like others have said... they don't know when you dropped the computer. If you would have sent them the computer prior to the drop, they should have taken care of it, but that's not the case.

Try to haggle with them the best you can.
     
   
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