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jfischetti · Apr 28, 2003, 02:38 PM

DAMN!

I've been waiting for the Playlist on the fly (make your playlist on the iPod) since they were released, and now it seems that that is a feature of the new ipods

DAMN!

mishap · Apr 28, 2003, 02:41 PM

Originally posted by jfischetti:
DAMN!

I've been waiting for the Playlist on the fly (make your playlist on the iPod) since they were released, and now it seems that that is a feature of the new ipods

DAMN!

that is pretty lame... very apple-like i guess

mrl14 · Apr 28, 2003, 03:05 PM

I'm extremely pissed off that we dont have these new features. It'd be different if the ipod had like some new hardware upgrade, but there is no reason why these features aren't available in the old versions...another way apple makes us buy the latest and greatest....Won't happen here apple, you owe us those features....CHEAP BUMS!!

sanford · Apr 28, 2003, 03:11 PM

Won't happen here apple, you owe us those features....CHEAP BUMS!!

[/B]

I wouldn't say they owe us anything so much as they should add a little sugar to the mix if they FREAKING EXPECT US TO BUY MUSIC FROM THEM!

I lived through the .mac paid service deal. I paid; no real grudge; it is a service. I paid for Jaguar with no complaints: It was worth it. But I've bought a $1000 worth of iPod in the last year and I can't BELIEVE they won't offer a full firmware upgrade so I can have an alarm clock and on-the-go playlists. Hell, charge me $25 for the firmware upgrade that includes these features. But buy a new iPod for what is I'll bet a pretty simple piece of programming. Good Lord, I am for the first time in a long time really pissed off at Apple.

neps · Apr 28, 2003, 03:16 PM

This is insane, it's almost as if they weren't confident enough in peoples want of these products that they dumb downed the upgrade to the old iPod users.

I've been dying for playlist on the go, and I can't believe it isn't there. Notepad and Game features are nice, but I can't believe it either. I'm sure this will be an iSync thing as well.

I know things have to grow in time, but there doesn't seem to be any technical reason why we shouldn't be able to have the same update, the revision isn't that great. If it's about space, remove the bleeping breakout and give me playlists on the go.

I hope Unsanity starts developing iPod haxies to pick up were Apple drops the ball.

I hope perhaps in time they will release it after the press dies down or something.

sanford · Apr 28, 2003, 03:19 PM

Originally posted by neps:
I hope perhaps in time they will release it after the press dies down or something.

If they would just say something like 1.3 is intended to get AAC on your old iPods, but you'll certainly be getting the rest of the firmware features in the future, then I'd calm down. But, this!!!

Even if I were given to saying what the hell, I'll just buy a new for those features. I don't WANT a new one. I don't want a cradle, I like the old button layout better, and I want my Firewire port on the iPod not on the cradle. The cradle is just another piece of trash to clutter up my desk

GORDYmac · Apr 28, 2003, 03:22 PM

I decided before the event that I would not buy the new iPod if it didn't have everything I wanted. I followed similar rationale when I bought my iBook 500. I'll take a pause on this update, but I think it's awesome.

I'm giving Apple the benefit of doubt by saying the first generation iPod's may not have the innards to support some of the new features. In any event, the new features aren't enough for me to give up my 5GB--as cool as they are. Heck, I just bought iTrip, and it's now obselete.

sanford · Apr 28, 2003, 03:28 PM

Originally posted by GORDYmac:
Heck, I just bought iTrip, and it's now obselete.

And the iTrip is one of the coolest 3rd party upgrades. Welcome to the new iPod downgrade.

It just seems so foolish to piss of such a large user base. If I could sell my 5 GB and 10 GB for enough for $300 total, I might even chip in the extra bucks and buy one of the new 15 GB iPods, but I have no idea what I could get for the 5 & 10 I already own and it's a hassle to try and sell them.

Anomalous · Apr 28, 2003, 03:55 PM

I did not realize that older iPods could not create playlists on the fly. That is really surprising. Even my Rio 600 can do that (although it can't transfer playlists between the computer and the Rio).

kupan787 · Apr 28, 2003, 04:15 PM

Originally posted by mrl14:
I'm extremely pissed off that we dont have these new features. It'd be different if the ipod had like some new hardware upgrade, but there is no reason why these features aren't available in the old versions...another way apple makes us buy the latest and greatest....Won't happen here apple, you owe us those features....CHEAP BUMS!!

Well, I could understand the alarm thing, as there is no speaker on the old ipods, so how would th ealarm be audible?

But the other things (notes, playlist on the fly, and the games) could be easily added, I think (it doesn't have any new buttons on the front does it?)

amrosario · Apr 28, 2003, 04:26 PM

I installed the update twice, after wiping my iPod clean and the version says 1.3 but there are no new features. What a rip off!! I mean, it's just a software update, right? Shouldn't have to buy new hardware to get these features?

And why isn't Apple mentioning anything on their web sites about the fact that the iPod update does not add any new features to legacy iPods.

Anomalous · Apr 28, 2003, 05:11 PM

Originally posted by amrosario:
I installed the update twice, after wiping my iPod clean and the version says 1.3 but there are no new features. What a rip off!! I mean, it's just a software update, right? Shouldn't have to buy new hardware to get these features?

And why isn't Apple mentioning anything on their web sites about the fact that the iPod update does not add any new features to legacy iPods.

No new features? What about AAC support? In my opinion that's more important than the stuff that got left out.

Agasthya · Apr 28, 2003, 05:13 PM

Originally posted by Anomalous:
No new features? What about AAC support? In my opinion that's more important than the stuff that got left out.

Bah. Only reason AAC was added was because Apple can make money off of it (Online Music Store).

higuy83 · Apr 28, 2003, 05:29 PM

Originally posted by GORDYmac:
Heck, I just bought iTrip, and it's now obselete.

Um, your iTrip is not obsolete unless the previous-generation iPod you have is malfunctioning in some way.

The fact that the device is not compatible with Apple's latest iPods means nothing... as Mac users, are we to expect Apple to retain a product's same form-factor merely so that 3rd-party developers' products remain functional?

Enjoy the iPod you have, the iTrip you have, and let's all move on and be happy that the iPod has entered to a new level in style and function.

(Nevertheless, I do agree with you that the SOFTWARE features of the product should have been included in the latest firmware update...)

-Brian

pokka · Apr 28, 2003, 05:46 PM

Well, I could understand the alarm thing, as there is no speaker on the old ipods, so how would th ealarm be audible?

The old ipod *does* have an external piezo buzzer (it makes the clicking sound when you use the wheel). It is certainly capable of functioning as an alarm clock.

There is no excuse for leaving out the "playlist on-the-fly" or the alarm clock.

pokka · Apr 28, 2003, 06:36 PM

By the way, To everyone who is disappointed that these features were left out, I would recommend letting apple know through their feedback system:

http://www.apple.com/feedback/ipod.html

If they get enough complaints, maybe they will do something about it.

GORDYmac · Apr 28, 2003, 08:07 PM

Thanks for the reminder pokka. I just sent mine.

ender2002 · Apr 28, 2003, 08:12 PM

EVERYONE CALM DOWN

The update, if you look at the bottom of the "beyond music" section, is to be released around JUNE. All the new features, playlists on the fly, the games, the notes, everything on JUNE.

http://www.apple.com/ipod/beyondmusic.html

"*Syncing with USB 2.0 (Windows-only) requires optional USB 2.0 + FireWire Cable and free software update (available in June)."

Check yaself before ya wreck yaself.

pokka · Apr 28, 2003, 08:21 PM

ender2002,

Sorry, but you are incorrect; read that page more carefully.

All that page says is that USB 2.0 for the *new* iPod is not currently available and that they will be releasing an update in June which provides that functionality.

In other words, the June update is *only* for new iPods, and will *only* add USB 2.0 support.

All the other features, such as playlists on the fly, etc. are *already* on the new iPod, and are not planned to be added to the old iPod at all.

todrain · Apr 28, 2003, 08:23 PM

Ummm.. I think the free update software refers to the USB connection with Windows. I think those of us with older iPods are still SOL.

mfessenden · Apr 28, 2003, 08:45 PM

That's for Window, read a little closer.

Originally posted by ender2002:
EVERYONE CALM DOWN

The update, if you look at the bottom of the "beyond music" section, is to be released around JUNE. All the new features, playlists on the fly, the games, the notes, everything on JUNE.

http://www.apple.com/ipod/beyondmusic.html

"*Syncing with USB 2.0 (Windows-only) requires optional USB 2.0 + FireWire Cable and free software update (available in June)."

Check yaself before ya wreck yaself.

Camera God · Apr 28, 2003, 08:48 PM

Originally posted by agasthya:
Bah. Only reason AAC was added was because Apple can make money off of it (Online Music Store).

Who cares what their initial motives were to developing AAC, when we as the consumers get better quality ripping?

x user · Apr 28, 2003, 10:04 PM

Do you think Apples crazy? They are a company just like any other that is expected to make money. They aren't going to just give you new features of their brand new product on your old one free.

MadBrowser · Apr 28, 2003, 10:08 PM

This is so retarded. You guys are a bunch of ****ing whiners.

When you bought your iPod, you must have thought it was a good enough deal to buy it.

Why do you think they "owe" you anything? Never was any updates at all guaranteed with the iPod, on the box, in the docs, etc... The fact that they are giving you anything in an update is a nice thing that is above and beyond the call of duty... And don't forget that iTunes is a free DL too.

Those of you that are acting like you are entitled to something from Apple on this issue, where do you get that sense?

This makes me mad and confuses the hell out of me.

cjrivera · Apr 28, 2003, 10:12 PM

Originally posted by pokka:
By the way, To everyone who is disappointed that these features were left out, I would recommend letting apple know through their feedback system:

http://www.apple.com/feedback/ipod.html

If they get enough complaints, maybe they will do something about it.

Go to this page and look at the selection

"What iPod software are you running?"
One of the options is 2.0.
They are just now giving us 1.3.

I'd bet 2.0 has all the games/playlist features.

At least I'm hoping......

(I just noticed, someone else had started another thread on this topic in the peripherals forum)

WJMoore · Apr 28, 2003, 10:55 PM

Originally posted by cjrivera:
Go to this page and look at the selection

"What iPod software are you running?"
One of the options is 2.0.
They are just now giving us 1.3.

I'd bet 2.0 has all the games/playlist features.

At least I'm hoping......

(I just noticed, someone else had started another thread on this topic in the peripherals forum)

2.0 is what is on the new ones. Perhaps when people get them someone will work out if the 2.0 firmware will work on the old ones.

pokka · Apr 28, 2003, 10:56 PM

Do you think Apples crazy? They are a company just like any other that is expected to make money. They aren't going to just give you new features of their brand new product on your old one free.

Apple has written the "playlist-on-the-fly" feature. Regardless of whether or not they will admit it, it will work perfectly well on any version of the iPod.

I understand that they have spent time on this feature and want to be compensated. I would gladly pay $30 - $50 to have the features of the new iPod. But instead of providing that option, they expect everyone to shell out another $300 - $500 for a few games and a some features that couldn't have taken more than a few days to write.

All of you who say that "apple is a business and they have to make money" don't seem to understand that making a profit involves building a relationship with the customer. If your customer knows that you're going to support the product by releasing regular updates, then he/she is much more likely to buy your products.

I don't care about the alarm clock, games, etc. The main reason I'm disappointed is that on-the-fly playlist creation (or even the ability to queue songs) is one of the most fundamental features of any mp3 player that holds more than a handful of songs. Not having it in the first place is ridiculous; when I decided to buy the iPod, I honestly didn't even consider the possibility that it could be missing. Now that it's written and can easily be ported to the old iPod, I think it's a big mistake to screw over the old users by not giving them any option other than buying a new iPod.

Luca Rescigno · Apr 29, 2003, 02:22 AM

I wonder if someone could use Carbon Copy Cloner to make a duplicate of a new iPod's drive and move it to an old iPod? It might just work!

As for my opinion on the matter: if Apple wants to drop users that are using a product that was discontinued a year or three ago, fine. Those users have had plenty of time to use their products. For example - if Panther didn't run on "Old World" machines like tray-load iMacs, Wallstreet PowerBooks, or beige G3s, a number of people would be mad. But at the same time, they bought their machines years ago and Apple has no real obligation to support them. But Apple sold some $500, 20 GB iPods YESTERDAY and immediately afterwards they turned around and screwed over their customers. As I see it, Apple should provide some sort of safeguard against this. It shouldn't be obsolete before the warranty is even up. Yeah, they don't have any legal obligation... but still, if they really want to be a company that inspires such loyalty, why do they keep doing this sort of crap?

BTW I'm getting a 15 GB iPod because I've always wanted an iPod but now's the time!

Gee4orce · Apr 29, 2003, 04:44 AM

So let me get this right. You bought an iPod. You presumably like it. You use it. You get a lot of pleasure out of it.

Apple releases a free software update. This adds features to your iPod (eg. AAC, longer play time, better hold performance) - and you whine and complain because you didn't get exactly everything you wanted.

Jeezus - some people here are very spoilt. Ususally, you buy something, that's it. The TV repair man doesn't spontaneosly visit your house to upgrade your TV a couple of inches bigger does he ? The garage doesn't tune up your car or install a bigger exhaust next time you have the oil changed, do they ?

You should be happy that Apple continues to offer such great, free support for a product you possibly bought 18 months ago !

AJ · Apr 29, 2003, 04:59 AM

Originally posted by Gee4orce:
So let me get this right. You bought an iPod. You presumably like it. You use it. You get a lot of pleasure out of it.

Apple releases a free software update. This adds features to your iPod (eg. AAC, longer play time, better hold performance) - and you whine and complain because you didn't get exactly everything you wanted.

Jeezus - some people here are very spoilt. Ususally, you buy something, that's it. The TV repair man doesn't spontaneosly visit your house to upgrade your TV a couple of inches bigger does he ? The garage doesn't tune up your car or install a bigger exhaust next time you have the oil changed, do they ?

You should be happy that Apple continues to offer such great, free support for a product you possibly bought 18 months ago !

Exactly. It is not like Apple haven't been adding features over the last 18months anyway!

motti · Apr 29, 2003, 05:48 AM

Who says there is no firewire port on the ipod? I think it has moved to the bottom to better fit into the cradle, isn't that so?

as2 · Apr 29, 2003, 07:41 AM

Originally posted by motti:
Who says there is no firewire port on the ipod? I think it has moved to the bottom to better fit into the cradle, isn't that so?

No....

It's a weird port that connects to the dock - long and thin.

as2 · Apr 29, 2003, 07:48 AM

Do a search for iPod Software 2.0 on knowledge base and it comes up with a few articles, but they don't give much detail.

Adam

dav · Apr 29, 2003, 08:31 AM

Originally posted by pokka:
By the way, To everyone who is disappointed that these features were left out, I would recommend letting apple know through their feedback system:

http://www.apple.com/feedback/ipod.html

sent feedback respectively asking apple to offer the new features to older ipods.

mfessenden · Apr 29, 2003, 09:40 AM

Originally posted by x user:
Do you think Apples crazy? They are a company just like any other that is expected to make money. They aren't going to just give you new features of their brand new product on your old one free.

Well, they did the last time. My first 5G iPod got a calendar, contacts and a few other things when the 10 and 20G models were released. It's an MP3 player, and it's a pretty expensive one at that. I don't think it's too much to ask that we are able to create our own playlists on a year-old iPod.

DannyVTim · Apr 29, 2003, 12:39 PM

Originally posted by Gee4orce:
So let me get this right. You bought an iPod. You presumably like it. You use it. You get a lot of pleasure out of it.

Apple releases a free software update. This adds features to your iPod (eg. AAC, longer play time, better hold performance) - and you whine and complain because you didn't get exactly everything you wanted.

Jeezus - some people here are very spoilt. Ususally, you buy something, that's it. The TV repair man doesn't spontaneosly visit your house to upgrade your TV a couple of inches bigger does he ? The garage doesn't tune up your car or install a bigger exhaust next time you have the oil changed, do they ?

You should be happy that Apple continues to offer such great, free support for a product you possibly bought 18 months ago !

This would be correct if it were an object that could not be upgraded. An iPod is a computer and you can add new software to a computer. This is what seperates a computer from other devices.

I'm happy with my 10 gig iPod, but solitare etc can certainly run on my iPod. Apple has a history of doing this same thing to force people to upgrade. It is a poor policy. Given enough feedback they will reverse course. However, when one pays top price from something it is reasonable to expect top service. Apple is asking for it both ways.

Besides, all the previous iPods are what paid for teh development the the new software.

I believe it is reason's like this that cause Apple to consistently loose market share in a marker they initaily dominate. Currently they are 42% market share. It costs them nothing to give solitare away.

Perhaps though this is all incorrect and they will release 2.0 which is what has the new features in the future.

It's bad carma either way.

todrain · Apr 29, 2003, 12:47 PM

Apple has upgraded the old models in the past, so their customers expect that they will do the same with the new models. If they never added the new features in the past, then we'd wouldn't have such backlash. (just like .Mac)

phylaxis · Apr 29, 2003, 04:33 PM

OK.
In looking at the Knowledege Base on Apple's web site I believe that version 2.0 of the iPod software is what is running on the Windows iPods. So I don't think it is the version running on the new iPods. Can anyone confirm or deny?

Luca Rescigno · Apr 29, 2003, 05:05 PM

One bad thing is that you're not even allowed to BUY the new software. People grumbled about .Mac because they had to pay for it, but at least you could still use it. Same with Jaguar - it was basically punishing those who were loyal to Apple. But at the same time, at least you were allowed to buy the upgrade and run the new OS. With the iPod, you're not even able to buy it. AND, the other point I made above is that there were people who bought brand new iPods just two days ago who are already not able to use the new features. As I mentioned earlier, if they want to cut off users that have been using discontinued hardware for a year or more, then fine. But right now Apple is cutting off ALL iPod owners (yes, all iPod owners because I don't think anyone has a brand new one yet unless they're close to Apple). What if Panther was incompatible with all G3s? I'd be really pissed, as an iBook owner. Think about it - I would have an UNSUPPORTED machine that is still under warranty! It just doesn't make any sense. If they really feel that the new iPods are good, they will be confident that they can sell themselves instead of having to stab previous users in the back (like Apple so often does). Sure, there will be a few people who sell their old iPod and buy a new one, but they will be far outweighed by the number of people who feel betrayed by Apple and choose not to buy Apple products anymore. .Mac was one thing - they had a bunch of people, all Mac users, who were paying nothing for a service which turned into a pay service. They pulled the rug out from under them but we adjusted. With iPod owners though, there are LOTS of Windows users that will drop Apple quickly if they do something bad.

SomeToast · Apr 29, 2003, 07:03 PM

Originally posted by pokka:
All the other features, such as playlists on the fly, etc. are *already* on the new iPod, and are not planned to be added to the old iPod at all.

"Not planned to be added to the old iPod at all"? On what basis can you make such a definitive statement?

If Apple really wanted to push existing iPod owners to buy new iPods, they would have withheld an update to play AAC, not a friggin' parachute game (just imagine the sh�t-storm we'd be in if that AAC update wasn't released!

)

I fully expect an update to add the new software features to current iPods in the not-too-distant future, just like contacts, clock and calendar were before.

pokka · Apr 29, 2003, 09:01 PM

On what basis can you make such a definitive statement?

Sorry, but I was trying to explain as clearly as possible the quoted disclaimer to ender2002, who misinterpreted it as a claim that the new features will be added to old iPods in June.

What I should have said was that "the statement on the web page does not indicate in any way that new features will be added to old ipods"

I hope you're right about adding the new features to the old iPod. However, until Apple actually announces this or releases the software, I think it's a good idea to make sure that Apple knows we want these features. If no one leaves feedback, then they might assume that nobody cares.

Luca Rescigno · Apr 29, 2003, 09:17 PM

Yeah the new iPods haven't even shipped yet so I'm guessing they are working out some issues with the new software moving to the old iPods. I don't think they'll halt all software development for the older iPods. Some features just might not make it into the old ones for one reason or another, but perhaps they're having trouble getting the new software to handle the old batteries? Think about how long it took to get the battery indicator working on the old iPods... now they change the battery, rewrite the 2.0 software with the new, smaller batteries in mind... it could be a while before they figure out how to get the battery indicator to work or something.

moofman · Apr 29, 2003, 11:27 PM

"iPod 2.0 software brings exciting new features to your iPod"

Judging by the phrasing of this I think it's safe to assume that we'll get these updates when 2.0 is released. Since this is bringing exciting new features to your iPod, and nobody has a new iPod yet, therefore "your iPod" must refer to the iPods that people own now, meaning these will be available to all iPods when it is released.

"The new iPod software ... will not even be on the new iPods until June. Steve said in the address that the 'iPod software was still being tested..."

He's saying it won't even be on the new iPods until June. That obviously means that it will be on both the old and the new, otherwise there would be no reason to say this.

People, read your actual transcripts before you get your pannies in a wad. It helps...

AssassyN · Apr 30, 2003, 12:06 AM

Originally posted by moofman:
"iPod 2.0 software brings exciting new features to your iPod"

Judging by the phrasing of this I think it's safe to assume that we'll get these updates when 2.0 is released. Since this is bringing exciting new features to your iPod, and nobody has a new iPod yet, therefore "your iPod" must refer to the iPods that people own now, meaning these will be available to all iPods when it is released.

"The new iPod software ... will not even be on the new iPods until June. Steve said in the address that the 'iPod software was still being tested..."

He's saying it won't even be on the new iPods until June. That obviously means that it will be on both the old and the new, otherwise there would be no reason to say this.

People, read your actual transcripts before you get your pannies in a wad. It helps...

So this explains why 2.0 is already an option on the iPod feedback page?

I too sent Apple an email requesting updated features on the old iPods. It would be different if Apple had to spend MORE time and MORE money developing these features to work on the old iPods, if that was the case I'd definitely not expect them to do so. But the reality is all those "2.0" features would work perfectly swell on the older iPods, without a doubt, so the only reason that it be withheld/limited is so people would be pressured into buying a new iPod. It's all good though, someone will crack it if Apple doesn't release it.

Agasthya · Apr 30, 2003, 01:59 AM

Originally posted by moofman:
"iPod 2.0 software brings exciting new features to your iPod"

Judging by the phrasing of this I think it's safe to assume that we'll get these updates when 2.0 is released. Since this is bringing exciting new features to your iPod, and nobody has a new iPod yet, therefore "your iPod" must refer to the iPods that people own now, meaning these will be available to all iPods when it is released.

"The new iPod software ... will not even be on the new iPods until June. Steve said in the address that the 'iPod software was still being tested..."

He's saying it won't even be on the new iPods until June. That obviously means that it will be on both the old and the new, otherwise there would be no reason to say this.

People, read your actual transcripts before you get your pannies in a wad. It helps...

Do you know approximetly when he says those things about them still testing the new OS in the Event speech? I watched all the iPod stuff and he doesn't mention June at all.

I've read this (that it won't be out till June) in a few places but no one seems to know when in the speech he says it.