[kennedy]

With all the students on this forum, maybe someone has a good answer for this...

What's the best notetaking setup??

For a while I was using a laptop... easy to type on, but when the prof starts drawing boxes and lines, its hell. With no mouse, drawing is tough. And a mouse is tough in class. Plus, what software supports notes and quick-easy drawings.

Then I tried using a Palm... with folding keyboard. Very portable. Used some outline software that supports typed notes and drawings fairly well. However, although drawing is straight-forward, the screen size limit always got in the way... not enough real estate to label those boxes and lines.

So, with the 12"PB I'll be picking up soon, I want something that:

1) Allows me to type up notes as fast as the prof can utter them.
2) Allows me to draw notes as fast as the prof can draw them.
3) Allows me to mix #1 and #2.
4) Allows me to later keyword annotate and organize those notes.

Is there a BlueTooth drawing pad that would work well?
Feeding into what software?

Any suggestions? I am good with FileMaker, so I can take care of #4 if I can find a good solution for #1-3 that can export/output in a form I can pull into FileMaker.

Any ideas welcome,

Brian

[Wiskedjak]

Best notetaking setup:
Pen, paper, tape recorder (if possible)

As a student, you shouldn't be so worried about capturing EVERYTHING the prof says. Instead, you should pre-read for your lectures, and capture only that which isn't in the reading. If there in no pre-reading, it is even more important that you not try to capture everything since you will spend too much time on capture (and trying to look technologically cool) and not enough time LISTENING and INTERACTING. Trust me, you will remember much if you listen to, concentrate and interact with the lecture than if you simply try to regurgitate it.

[HasanDaddy]

Microsoft Word is pretty good --- it has a drawing feature that allows you to do text and draw

although ---- I recommend two programs, and multitasking with them at the same time

1. a word processor --- either AppleWorks or Word.....both are fine

2. OmniGraffle --- its AWESOME for drawing pictures or connecting things

so I suggest grabbing OmniGraffle and a Word processor and multitasking between the two

You can also write notes in OmniGraffle, so you might just want to use that one alone

[GlobalNomad]

Originally posted by Wiskedjak:
Best notetaking setup:
Pen, paper, tape recorder (if possible)

Tape recorder == bad idea!

You have to do every lecture twice, why not just take good hand writen notes.

[HasanDaddy]

I take notes on my laptop all the time!

I've never taken better notes than now! I wish I had done it earlier!

[CrazedVW]

Personally, I find it easiest to just take notes by hand and then go back later and type them up. This has the added advantage of allowing me to review the material again as I type and is particulary good if I put off doing it until a week or so after the lecture. (Like I'm prone to do.)

[Angus_D]

A lot of people have reported success with OmniOutliner and/or DEVONthink.

[melman101]

I have used the Microsoft Word / OmniGraffle setup, but again, depending on the type of class, you have to make exceptions. For instance, if your taking a class in lets say Electromagnetic wave theory, your definitely not going to be able to take notes unless you have a real good drawing pad, and even then, its still not as good as pen and paper. But if you got a class like Business Statistics, you got no problem. Do everything in Excel, and write instructions next to it ;-). Thats what I did.

I've taken notes for a few classes on my 12" and let me tell you, it turns head. Too bad there aren't more girls in my classes.

As for bluetooth drawing pads, man that would be neat. Doing search for one now. I found one, seems to be just PC

http://www.stg-inc.com/meetingpad.shtm

Maybe someone else knows more.

[macxtal]

Depends on the courses.. in a technical field like Engineering, from my experience electronic notetaking was almost worthless. Need those diagrams and squiggly guys.

[Wiskedjak]

Originally posted by GlobalNomad:
Tape recorder == bad idea!

You have to do every lecture twice, why not just take good hand writen notes.

The tape recorder was a concession to his desire to capture everything said by the lecturer.

[wilsonX]

Originally posted by HasanDaddy:
I take notes on my laptop all the time!

I've never taken better notes than now! I wish I had done it earlier!

Just curious, do you think that you took better notes with your laptop because you didn't write down everything the teacher said? Maybe the laptop forced you to be more concise and pick out the key points?

[Link]

If anything you can always take a stylus and draw on the touchpad roflmao.

for some DIRE circumstances this could actually work fairly well!

[Lebensm�de]

The real question is when are we finally going to see the full implementation of Ink which has been built into Mac OS X since Jaguar, but as yet has resulted in no hardware solutions from Apple that take full advantage of the technology (e.g. a laptop with touch-sensitive screen and handwriting recognition � la Newton).

[PowerMatt]

Before my wife dropped my PocketPC, I took text notes using Pocket Word and used a legal paper pad and a pencil for drawings & illustrations. I always made sure to cross-reference between the PDA and the drawings so I knew where stuff belonged.

[kennedy]

Thanks for the good feedback so far... I'll definitely look into some of those things. Please keep the advice coming. But to clarify my desires and to keep things on track...

FWIW, I don't try to capture everything the lecturer says... rather, I just don't want to miss anything due to technology getting in my way when I hear something I need to record (as often happens with my previous setups when non-trivial drawings are put up). I type about 60wpm without thought (I am a programmer)... so I can actually type text far quicker than I can handwrite it... its just when those darn drawings or charts or graphs or whatever occur...

As far as a recorder or typing it up later... that's what I am trying to avoid... I have zero-time... so I want to get it the first time.

And one final point... the huge value to having it typed up, IMO, is that it makes it effortlessly quick to do searches on things. Years ago in my undergrad days, I spent huge amounts of study time flipping thru my notes trying to figure out "where'd I write that down... I know I wrote something on that..." only to eventually find it as a single line of notes tucked among other stuff, written a little sloppy... I could have found it instantly with a simple text search.

Anyway, thanks again... anyone who feels their note-taking setup works well, please contribute...

[elysian]

Originally posted by Wiskedjak:
Best notetaking setup:
Pen, paper, tape recorder (if possible)

As a student, you shouldn't be so worried about capturing EVERYTHING the prof says. Instead, you should pre-read for your lectures, and capture only that which isn't in the reading. If there in no pre-reading, it is even more important that you not try to capture everything since you will spend too much time on capture (and trying to look technologically cool) and not enough time LISTENING and INTERACTING. Trust me, you will remember much if you listen to, concentrate and interact with the lecture than if you simply try to regurgitate it.

I couldn't agree more (except for the tape recorder...never used one before). I've always found it helpful to scan future lecture material in the textbook before class in order to take notes on stuff that I can't find in the textbook. There's no point in copying down material that can be easily found in a book that has a decent index.

Sometimes, listening and trying to understand the concept in class and only jotting down the few important things (and reviewing them later) is better than trying to transcribe a lecture and trying to figure out what the heck the professor was talking about during the hour you were busy typing/writing down everything he said.

That being said, everybody's study habits are different. Those are just things that I've learned are helpful to me as a math/cs/pre-law major.

[jojobe99]

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...category=38331

[NewOldbie]

My best friend in college (in the 80s) was an older student who was a computer consultant before returning to school for his degree. He took notes on a laptop computer (one of the first powerbooks) and drew anything that needed to be drawn on paper while leaving space for diagrams in the notes. As soon as class was over he would edit and revise his notes. By the time he got back to our apartment in the evening, he's revised his notes 3 times and simply prints it out and adds the diagrams. This guy rocked!

His advise was to keep things simple and be prepared for system problems in class. I saw him do an emergency recovery on his laptop while in a neuroscience class I think his computer was down for about 15 minutes during which time he simply took notes by hand.


This same guy did an upper division Biochemistry class with me and while everyone was picking their nose waiting for the rxn, he's typing up his lab report. By the end of the 4-5 hour lab session, he has the report printed out on his portable printer and hands it in to the professor as he walks out the door. This while the rest of us struggled to get our data in the right grid.

Keep it simple, focus on what's important in class. Your laptop is a tool that helps you in class, don't let it become a weight that will affect your academic performance.

[LfGrdMike]

Use MS Words Outlining feature its the best because you can organize facts and data logically. Keep in mind take notes on paper and transfering later might be the fastest most efficent way to go about this.

[Shaddim]

I used a laptop for notes, and a sketch pad for diagrams and sketches. Just place indicators in your notes for the diagrams, indexing each diagram.

Then when you get home scan the diagrams and insert them into your notes, or redo the diagrams in OmniGraffle or such.

[Simon X]

Have you tried NoteBook app?

Easy to use with a truly fantastic auto index system. The latest update can also record if you so wish. Easy to import graphics too. Nice clipping service available in all Cocoa apps, with a contextual menu add-on for Carbon apps which allow that sort of thing.

Is quite cheap, especially with an academic discount. Also good developer support who listens and acts upon user suggestions. Have a look at their newly opened forums to see how highly other users rate it, and how open they are to user feedback. Which is always a good thing, especially for an app such as this, as you would want the app to grow the more you start filling in those notebooks.

I think this app is going places. Sure, there's NoteTaker with its flashy extras, but NoteBook is much more refined and easier to use. And at a much better starting place to develop further.

As you might have guessed, I really like this app. I have it open all the time.

[real]

If your getting a 12" powerbook then you have all you need. Omnigraffe and omnioutliner. Both come with the PB. They are great never taken note in a class, but have in meetings and such. Check them out, pretty good.
real

[Tomster]

I have to ask one very fundamental question: for what subject do you intend to use this? If it's math, I suppose you could use Mathmatica, but you better be quick. If it is a text based subject, like history, there should be no issues. If it is for something like organic chemistry, you might want to go with paper.

[Link]

Originally posted by NewOldbie:
I think his computer was down for about 15 minutes during which time he simply took notes by hand.

Been there.. done that ^_^

This same guy did an upper division Biochemistry class with me and while everyone was picking their nose waiting for the rxn, he's typing up his lab report. By the end of the 4-5 hour lab session, he has the report printed out on his portable printer and hands it in to the professor as he walks out the door. This while the rest of us struggled to get our data in the right grid.

Done this too... except for the portable printer.. it's all about having the right facts and such with you at the right time

That guy knew his stuff

[Tomster]

Originally posted by NewOldbie:
This same guy did an upper division Biochemistry class with me and while everyone was picking their nose waiting for the rxn, he's typing up his lab report. By the end of the 4-5 hour lab session, he has the report printed out on his portable printer and hands it in to the professor as he walks out the door. This while the rest of us struggled to get our data in the right grid.

Wow, I guess things have changed a bit since I was in school. Anyone else remember when lab reports were only acceptable if written in a bound, sequentially numbered lab note book? You could not type up the report even if you wanted to. Progress. Sigh. As for handing it to the professor, I don't think I ever had the luxury of seeing any tenured prof in a lab. Lots of overworked grad students, but no faculty.

[Toaster]

Well if none of that works, you could always buy an iSight and use it to take snapshots during the lecture. Then you could review them after class and draw pictures to insert at your own leisure. Or just insert the image into your notes and be done with it.

[yoyoman]

one thing ink well with a waycom tablit or something similar. Use that part of the os to work. Might as well use it if its there right?

[MilkmanDan]

Its a great deal. Only $3 bucks gets you a brand new wireless notebook! Apple, Dell, Gateway, they can't beat that price! It runs the brand new version of Pencil OS, version #2. Upkeep costs are low, and buying new versions of the OS is extremely cheap and easy to install. Than again, it can run any operating system you want it to. So easy. It will run without batteries until the time you decide to throw it away. Overall this is the best notebook for any college bound student.

http://www.walgreens.com/store/produ...1&CATID=100441

You know its true.

[PowerMatt]

Originally posted by NewOldbie:
Your laptop is a tool that helps you in class, don't let it become a weight that will affect your academic performance.

Mine was a toy that I used to play Solitare!

[waffffffle]

I use Word on my iBook in most non-technical classes (history, politics, etc). Even though it is dirt slow and often takes SECONDS for text to appear after I type it, I still like it better than using TextEdit because I need auto-correct to fix my constant typos. I can type pretty quickly but my accuracy is pretty bad. I also like the outline features of word. The only problem I have is that I don't know how to "tab left" so to speak. If you hit tab it drops down into a lower level of the outline, but I can't figure out how to get it to do the opposite via a keyboard shortcut. Does anyone know?

That notebook app looks interesting. I think I might be getting a 12" PowerBook this fall so it will be cool to check out the OmniSoftware that comes with it.

Also the iBook definitely attracts attention from girls, good looking girls.

EDIT: I also should have added that since I started taking notes on my iBook I have been much happier. I no longer have to race to keep up with what the professor is talking about and the ability to search for text later on is great. Although sometimes I get distracted since there is wireless access in some of the lecture halls. Although that is also a convenience since I can check important emails while sitting in class.

My technical classes often have the notes preprinted for students in a handout format (the comp sci department does 3 slides per page with lines for note-taking next to them, other departments do a plain 4 per page). Although some profs don't print them out for you so if I happen to forget to print out the notes before class and I can get online I'll download the ppt file and type in the "notes" box. However I have yet to find a good way to review those notes.

[tisoncam]

If you are taking math/physics courses I would recommend installing X11 and fink. Then use fink to install Lyx. Lyx is a GUI frontend to LATEX, which will allow you to type all the equations, fomulae, etc. in real time. I cannot tell you how useful it was to have typed copies of all my physics lectures--made studying for exams and writing lab reports much easier.

I have not decided what I am going to do for law school next year but I have have to check out the Omni* applications--didn't even realize that I had them.

[kennedy]

Originally posted by waffffffle:
The only problem I have is that I don't know how to "tab left" so to speak. If you hit tab it drops down into a lower level of the outline, but I can't figure out how to get it to do the opposite via a keyboard shortcut. Does anyone know?

Can't test it here... but my muscle memory says it is Shift-Tab.
There's definitely a keystroke, though... and its a modifier-Tab.
I use it all the time.

HTH.

Thanks for the feedback on my questions.

[NewOldbie]

Originally posted by Tomster:
Wow, I guess things have changed a bit since I was in school. Anyone else remember when lab reports were only acceptable if written in a bound, sequentially numbered lab note book? You could not type up the report even if you wanted to. Progress. Sigh. As for handing it to the professor, I don't think I ever had the luxury of seeing any tenured prof in a lab. Lots of overworked grad students, but no faculty.

You're right on. Most all labs are run by grad students (I did the same thing when I went through "the grind.") Except this was a special class that *that* particular professor offered. One of those honors on top of honors classes. You had to apply to get in and the department only took in 12 students/year. The scariest part was these were supposed to be the cream of the crop but they still didn't know what was going on (sigh).

The beauty was we had the professor with us in lecture and lab, had social outings, looked at many things outside the scope of the normal curriculum. I learn a great deal!!!

Originally posted by PowerMatt:

Mine was a toy that I used to play Solitare!

In some of the more boring classes I've had, I wish I had a laptop to play games. But usually just end up doing homework from another class (we need a geek smilie)

[Wiskedjak]

Originally posted by waffffffle:
Also the iBook definitely attracts attention from girls, good looking girls.

Just like big spoilers and loud car stereos attrack girls? It's funny how guys always think girls are attracted to techy toys ...

[Uisce]

Since most of my professor all use PPt these days, I download the presentation on my computer before class, and make notes in it. All the graphics are already there.

If you can't get PPt's, just use a pad and pen. KISS

[alpha rays max]

I just type out the notes in Word just as I would on paper. It's easier to go back and edit that way. Besides, I'm fairly anal about "neatness" of my notes - e.g., if I make a mistake, I feel a compulsion to start over completely to make it look nice. Which is obviously a huge waste of time.

That NoteBook app looks pretty intriguing, though. I might have to try it out.

[DSHwrd]

Actually, there are quite a few good 'outliner/note taking' type applications out there.

Check out:

MacJournal - http://homepage.mac.com/dschimpf/main.html
Z-Write - www.z-write.com
ideaSpiral - www.midnite-liteman.com/ideaSpiral/


These are just some of the few that are out there. Search on VersionTracker, there's a ton. Some are better than others in certain aspects, etc...

Cheers,
- Daniel

P.S. Yes, I know, I'm responsible for ideaSpiral. But it truly is a good application for taking notes during class. I used it when I was in college. Don't try ideaSpiral because I said it's good. MacJournal has a lot more features, and it's Free! Good luck.

[waffffffle]

Originally posted by Wiskedjak:
Just like big spoilers and loud car stereos attrack girls? It's funny how guys always think girls are attracted to techy toys ...

Well I'm sorry if you haven't been able to pick up girls with your iBook. Its not like I do it intentionally but I've met a handful of good looking girls with it and quite often it leads to something more. I certainly don't think girls are attracted to "techy" toys. They're attracted to the cute little white computer.

Maybe I'm just lucky, or my iBook has magic powers...

[mishakim]

Originally posted by tisoncam:
I have not decided what I am going to do for law school next year but I have have to check out the Omni* applications--didn't even realize that I had them.

I used OmniOutliner throughout my first year of law school, and plan to continue for the next two. Only Property occasionally had diagrams, which I didn't bother with, just sketched them in the margin of the textbook if they weren't already printed in it. The main thing I'd advise is to outline the day's cases ahead of time, then fill in the details as they come out in class.

FWIW, 90% of the 85 students in my section used laptops in class, but only 4 of us used macs--two iBooks, two TiBooks. Many people commented on the fact that the four of us seemed to be the only ones who never had any problem with out computers, not that we got any of them to switch.

[LfGrdMike]

Turn off that useless font smoothing feature in word and the typing speed improves a lot.

[Link]

hehe i am one of those people that could benefit from using a notebook to take notes instead of paper and pencil.. as usual i can type many, many times faster then I can write, and of course, can add my own thoughts at the same time.

I believe I can actually one handedly type with my left hand faster then i can write... then again.. I can type pretty fast with that hand
it is all in the way the good ole qwerty is designed lol

[cc_foo]

With regards to recording the lecture, I'm sure there are freeware/shareware that will record the microphone input onto harddisk?

[moofman]

Originally posted by cc_foo:
With regards to recording the lecture, I'm sure there are freeware/shareware that will record the microphone input onto harddisk?

I doubt that the mic pick-up in the laptop could even hear a teacher that well unless you were in, like, the front row under their nose.


I plan on taking notes on my laptop in classes that need it, but I'm doing theatre, so I don't expect to be taking just a mass of notes, either. Glad somebody brought this topic up, though.

[juanpacolopez]

Originally posted by Wiskedjak:
Just like big spoilers and loud car stereos attrack girls? It's funny how guys always think girls are attracted to techy toys ...

Big spoilers and loud car stereo's are an entirely different (and sometimes redneck) beast... trust me... Atlanta is a kicking urban city, but travel about 50 miles outside and it's like everyone is having a contest to see who can have the tallest spoiler/loudest stereo in the cheapest (Neons mostly) car.

Anyhooo... you've obviously never opened up your PB around college girls. The starbucks down the street from here is frequented by Emory students... I've had quite a few conversations with hot girlies started by virtue of my Ti sitting out on the table They seem to like the ibook even more, because it looks "cute".

[romeosc]

Originally posted by waffffffle:
Well I'm sorry if you haven't been able to pick up girls with your iBook. Its not like I do it intentionally but I've met a handful of good looking girls with it and quite often it leads to something more. I certainly don't think girls are attracted to "techy" toys. They're attracted to the cute little white computer.

Maybe I'm just lucky, or my iBook has magic powers...

or attracted to a man who has money to burn!

most PB owners spend more money than their PC counterparts.

Its like most people who drive a Mercades spend more than people who own a VW!

[billybob128]

i think that the best idea come out of here is:

write notes out and where drawings are needed make a note:
eg

Fig.3 DNA strand

then draw on paper the DNA strand and later print notes out and stick the FIG in. alternativly scan the Fig in then place it where it is needed

[Link]

or just keep a small (think those cheap small whackem tablets) tablet with ya.

[Tenstar5]

the best way is to hand write it then put it on you cpu after.

[mmurray]

If you want to write mathematics in class have a look at this long thread.

http://macslash.org/article.pl?sid=0...45&mode=thread

Personally I would use pen and paper and write it up afterwards.


Michael

[Fellow2000]

I like the whole idea of just typing everything out and then keeping just one sheet of paper with you for the diagrams. It would only take a minute after class to just scan them and put them in the document as an image. I think this would be a great time saver.