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Fyre4ce · Dec 7, 2005, 01:09 AM

Originally Posted by Kerrigan

So nobody here is willing to consider what the producers did to her which led to her breakdown? Remember when she started to feel anxious and then vomitted at the beginning of the show? That should have been the sign for the producers to back off, because the woman is cleary unstable and vulnerable.

And when they found out how much she disliked psychics, they put her on that radio-show with the psychic guest. She started irrationally freaking out, but remember how she said "I'm tired of doing all of this stuff for you guys, I want to go home". They were deliberately putting her in positions where she would freak out.

Would this have been so funny if they had taken a mentally unstable Muslim and made him hang around with homosexuals and infidels and other people who think Islam is a joke? No, people would be talking about how intolerant Fox is to manipulate a person's faith to make him have a breakdown.

You know, the longer I think about what you wrote here, the more I agree with you. The first time I watched the video I found it amusing (my views on Christianity contributing) but now that I've watched it again and read the FOX episode recaps on their website...

http://www.fox.com/tradingspouses/recaps/201.htm
http://www.fox.com/tradingspouses/recaps/202.htm

...I do pity the woman. It definitely seems like the producers went out of their way to provoke her. Despite her tirade, she seems basically harmless and I don't think she wishes ill on anyone. On the other hand, FOX (or whoever wrote those recaps, at least) seemed to take an almost sadistic pleasure from her discomfort and suffering. As I said here before, I am a humanist, and just because I disagree with the woman's beliefs doesn't mean I think she should suffer. I also pity her for morbid obesity, and while I disapprove of gastric bypass surgery, I hope it improves her quality of life.

Severed Hand of Skywalker · Dec 7, 2005, 01:43 AM

These people are what give Christians a bad name:

http://money.cnn.com/2005/12/06/news...ex.htm?cnn=yes

Rolling Bones · Dec 7, 2005, 03:21 AM

Originally Posted by Severed Hand of Skywalker

These people are what give Christians a bad name:

http://money.cnn.com/2005/12/06/news...ex.htm?cnn=yes

Shoulda started a new thread for that one. Domestic auto industry must be getting real bad.

Asians will take over the ads. They don't care.

goMac · Dec 7, 2005, 03:33 AM

Originally Posted by Severed Hand of Skywalker

These people are what give Christians a bad name:

http://money.cnn.com/2005/12/06/news...ex.htm?cnn=yes

Very interesting article.

Henry Ford himself was basically a Nazi. He was awarded the highest non-German citizen award from Hitler. He gave away anti-Jewish books at his dealership.

Not boycotting the Volvo brand though is telling. Volvo's are more expensive, and they market heavily to gays because gays are seen to have more disposable income. Apparently Ford isn't holy enough to want to loose that market.

Kevin · Dec 7, 2005, 07:58 AM

Originally Posted by Severed Hand of Skywalker

These people are what give Christians a bad name:

http://money.cnn.com/2005/12/06/news...ex.htm?cnn=yes

Tell us SWF, what is Christmas about, and what does that have to do with Christmas. Or what this even has to do with this thread?

Mastrap · Dec 7, 2005, 08:36 AM

It's certainly an interesting article, so as far as I am concerned, thanks for posting it SWG. While I believe that Ford has every right to decide where or where not to advertise their goods I think it would indeed be a very sad state of affairs if they have indeed caved in to the 'Christian' right.

Christian in quotes because I personally don't believe these guys have as much to do with true Christianity like Muslim extremists have with the true Muslim faith. The difference seems to be that we tolerate our home grown fanatics.

Kevin · Dec 7, 2005, 08:43 AM

Originally Posted by Mastrap

It's certainly an interesting article, so as far as I am concerned, thanks for posting it SWG.

Interesting article, wrong place to post it.

While I believe that Ford has every right to decide where or where not to advertise their goods I think it would indeed be a very sad state of affairs if they have indeed caved in to the 'Christian' right.

Christian in quotes because I personally don't believe these guys have as much to do with true Christianity like Muslim extremists have with the true Muslim faith. The difference seems to be that we tolerate our home grown fanatics.

And they don't?

We tolerate alot extremist groups. The KKK, PETA, NAACP, etc

SuvsareRetarded · Dec 7, 2005, 10:13 AM

Originally Posted by goMac

Wrong. Buddhism is a religion, but does not belief in the supernatural.

One of buddishm's main beleifs has to do with the wheel of life and reaching nirvana. Hence the reason it is called a religion. Again, you lose. Science is not a religion, because it does not believe in or worship the supernatural.

SuvsareRetarded · Dec 7, 2005, 10:15 AM

Originally Posted by goMac

An example of Buddhism taking on supernatural believes is the Tibetan Buddhist belief in reincarnation. While they believe in it, original Buddhism refused to deal with reincarnation.

I've been taught that buddhists believe in the wheel of life, and that achieving enligtenment and becoming one with teh 'brahma' releases you from that cycle of unending rebirth.

Anybody else ever hear differently? You're wrong.

Kevin · Dec 7, 2005, 10:16 AM

Originally Posted by SuvsareRetarded

Science is not a religion, because it does not believe in or worship the supernatural.

Not all religions deal with the supernatural rob.

You'd do much better in these sort of discussions if you actually knew what you were talking about.

BTW Rob, the supernatural is anything that Science cannot explain. So if Science studies things that aren't known yet, it deals with the supernatural.

SuvsareRetarded · Dec 7, 2005, 10:17 AM

Originally Posted by goMac

Hope. Which is something science cannot provide, which is why religion will always be around. When science fails, people will always turn to religion. There are still quite a few things science can fail to do. I think science will always advance, and religion will always change in reaction, but religion will always be around.

I have hope, and it doesnt' require god or religion. It's called a positive outlook. We don't have all the cures to disease yet, but someday I hope we will. That doesn't mean that since we don't have all the cures, I'm going to go pray to god for things to be magically cured. You are right about religion always being around though. Here's a good quote:

Historically the belief in heaven and the belief in utopia are like compensatory buckets in a well: when one goes down the other comes up. When the classic religions decayed, communistic agitation rose in Athens (430 B.C.), and revolution began in Rome (133 B.C.); when these movements failed, resurrection faiths succeeded, culminating in Christianity; when, in our eighteenth century, Christian belief weakened, communism reappeared. In this perspective the future of religion is secure.
-Will Durant

SuvsareRetarded · Dec 7, 2005, 10:19 AM

Originally Posted by Mastrap

Gautama Buddha sometimes refers to nirvana as 'the deathless', a negative formulation of what Jesus refers to as 'eternal life'. Elsewhere the Buddha calls nirvana 'the unconditioned element' (i.e., that which is not subject to causation).

All of which is supernatural, and thus, the reason why Buddhism is a religion. GoMac is just too simple to understand.

SuvsareRetarded · Dec 7, 2005, 10:23 AM

Originally Posted by nonhuman

The faith comes in when you make the assumption that the world really is the way your senses tell you it is. It's basically the old brain in a vat argument from philosophy. For all you know 'reality' is essentially a virtual environment that God shows you. For all you know you're God and the universe is really just a delusion your mind has cooked up to keep you from the incredible boredom of being the only thing in existence. Even in those cases your senses would tell you the same thing they do now.

I disagree. I rely on my senses and my brain, and neither of them require faith. Faith is the belief in something despite rational thought, without evidence, stuff like that. If I SEE a chair, I understand that light is being reflected off a chair, into my eye, invereted, it's exciting the cones and rods, then the signal travels to my brain, at which point it is decoded as a chair. I understand this, and so when i see a chair, I make a judgement: There is a chair in front of me. There's zero faith involved. Why? Because I have REASON TO BELIEVE that there is a chair in front of me.

SuvsareRetarded · Dec 7, 2005, 10:25 AM

Originally Posted by nonhuman

Yes, but if the matrix scenario (as you put it) is true, then the very foundation of science is suspect and can't be assumed to describe the real world. By deciding that scientific observation is valid you are taking the leap of faith that the matrix scenario is not true.

It's amazing what lengths people will go to in order to defend irrational thought.

Kevin · Dec 7, 2005, 10:26 AM

Originally Posted by SuvsareRetarded

All of which is supernatural, and thus, the reason why Buddhism is a religion. GoMac is just too simple to understand.

Supernatural doesn't a religion make. Or something. Just because something is supernatural does not make it a religion. Just becauase something is not supernatural doesn't mean it's not a religion

Originally Posted by SuvsareRetarded

I disagree. I rely on my senses and my brain, and neither of them require faith. Faith is the belief in something despite rational thought, without evidence, stuff like that. If I SEE a chair, I understand that light is being reflected off a chair, into my eye, invereted, it's exciting the cones and rods, then the signal travels to my brain, at which point it is decoded as a chair. I understand this, and so when i see a chair, I make a judgement: There is a chair in front of me. There's zero faith involved. Why? Because I have REASON TO BELIEVE that there is a chair in front of me.

No you DO use faith. The Zoroestar example. Even though there is NO PROOF that he was the first person to have such an idea, you claim it so.

That takes faith. You rely on faith and don't even realize it.

You rely on faith that the scientists that tell you things are right (Even though most of their "answers" change like the wind)

So faith is a large part of science. Like it or not. Admit it or not.

Kevin · Dec 7, 2005, 10:27 AM

Originally Posted by SuvsareRetarded

It's amazing what lengths people will go to in order to defend irrational thought.

Rob, that's a strawman. BTW, nonhuman isn't religious. He is just HONEST.

SuvsareRetarded · Dec 7, 2005, 10:27 AM

Originally Posted by nonhuman

I never denied that religion is a construct. All I'm saying is that science has an element of faith as well.

No it doesn't. Faith requires a strong belief in god or other supernatural being, based on spiritual apprehension rather than proof. Look it up yourself.

SuvsareRetarded · Dec 7, 2005, 10:30 AM

Originally Posted by Mastrap

Oh, the exploding head was just to comment on your last scenario there.

Just to recap, even if religion and science should both turn out to be constructs it still follows that science needs less of a leap of faith than religion does, even within the confines of the same construct.

If that makes any sense at all.

Religion needs skyhooks in order to explain itself. Science is produced from thinking the other direction, starting at the most basic things we can figure out and trying to work our way up to more complicated things.

Kevin · Dec 7, 2005, 10:31 AM

Originally Posted by SuvsareRetarded

No it doesn't. Faith requires a strong belief in god or other supernatural being, based on spiritual apprehension rather than proof. Look it up yourself.

That isn't what faith is Rob.

faith ( P ) Pronunciation Key (fth)
n.

1. Confident belief in the truth, value, or trustworthiness of a person, idea, or thing.
Belief that does not rest on logical proof or material evidence. See Synonyms at belief. See Synonyms at trust.
3. Loyalty to a person or thing; allegiance: keeping faith with one's supporters.
4. often Faith Christianity. The theological virtue defined as secure belief in God and a trusting acceptance of God's will.
5. The body of dogma of a religion: the Muslim faith.
6. A set of principles or beliefs.

SuvsareRetarded · Dec 7, 2005, 10:32 AM

Originally Posted by Kevin

I believe in the hampster, do you?

Only if followers of hte hamster told me that he could fly, shoot fireballs out of his anus, was the son of god, etc etc. Then they made a book with even more incredible stories, and killed millions of people who didn't believe in the hamster. Also, it'd have to be extremely contradictory. Yeah, then I would! Sounds like a rational belief system to me!

Oisín · Dec 7, 2005, 10:34 AM

Originally Posted by Kevin

Pronunciation Key (fth)

How wonderfully descriptive of the sound best fit to describe what this thread has turned into.

SuvsareRetarded · Dec 7, 2005, 10:35 AM

Originally Posted by Kevin

Not all religions deal with the supernatural rob.

Oh really? ****ing hit f12 and type 'RELIGION' into your dictionary widget. Type in the definition and hit respond.

SuvsareRetarded · Dec 7, 2005, 10:37 AM

Originally Posted by Kevin

That isn't what faith is Rob.

faith ( P ) Pronunciation Key (fth)
n.

1. Confident belief in the truth, value, or trustworthiness of a person, idea, or thing.
Belief that does not rest on logical proof or material evidence. See Synonyms at belief. See Synonyms at trust.
3. Loyalty to a person or thing; allegiance: keeping faith with one's supporters.
4. often Faith Christianity. The theological virtue defined as secure belief in God and a trusting acceptance of God's will.
5. The body of dogma of a religion: the Muslim faith.
6. A set of principles or beliefs.

I don't know what you're using, but hit F12.

Kevin · Dec 7, 2005, 10:39 AM

Rob your definition STILL DOESN"T JIVE WITH WHAT YOU SAID, and STILL SUPPORTS MINE.

Really, think before you post.

You have trust and confidence in Science. You have said so. You have faith.

Kevin · Dec 7, 2005, 10:41 AM

Originally Posted by SuvsareRetarded

Oh really? ****ing hit f12 and type 'RELIGION' into your dictionary widget. Type in the definition and hit respond.

I did, and it still supports what I said Rob. You suck at the internet.

Mastrap · Dec 7, 2005, 10:42 AM

Oh good, Rob and Kevin are arguing on teh internet.

Kevin · Dec 7, 2005, 10:59 AM

Mastrap and Rob was too

SuvsareRetarded · Dec 7, 2005, 11:07 AM

Originally Posted by Kevin

I did, and it still supports what I said Rob. You suck at the internet.

You are blind.

Oisín · Dec 7, 2005, 11:07 AM

Originally Posted by Kevin

Mastrap and Rob was too

In a blatant attempt to get yet another ridiculous argument, which may speed up the locking of the abscess that this thread has become, started in here, I am now going to correct your grammar and say that the rules of congruence require that the verb in your sentence be plural, “were”. There.

SuvsareRetarded · Dec 7, 2005, 11:08 AM

Originally Posted by Oisín

In a blatant attempt to get yet another ridiculous argument, which may speed up the locking of this abscess of a thread, started in here, I am now going to correct your grammar and say that the rules of congruence require that the verb in your sentence be plural, “were”. There.

He's been doing that a lot lately. I think the jesus is getting to him. In just a few months he'll probably be missing teeth, have a camaro, mullet, and a big fat wife who plays church music.

Oisín · Dec 7, 2005, 11:13 AM

Originally Posted by SuvsareRetarded

He's been doing that a lot lately. I think the jesus is getting to him. In just a few months he'll probably be missing teeth, have a camaro, mullet, and a big fat wife who plays church music.

Can I correct your orthography as well? Proper names should be capitalised, both Jesus and Camaro.

And just to do the stupidest thing I can think of and actually jump into the pool of bickering here, no one (including Kevin) was denying that faith means “strong belief in God or the doctrines of a religion, based on spiritual apprehension rather than truth”. He (and others) were simply saying that that's not the only meaning the word has. It is also perfectly usable in the first meaning given in the dictionary widget: “complete trust or confidence in someone or something”.

Kevin · Dec 7, 2005, 11:13 AM

Originally Posted by SuvsareRetarded

You are blind.

Rob let me let you in on a secret how Dictionaries work. When there is more than one definition they list them as 1. 2. 3. The most used definition is usually listed as 1.

If something doesn't fit #1, that doesn't negate it if it fits #2.

And vice versa.

You can't pick and choose which ones you support and which ones you deem wrong.

You are simply wrong in this instance Rob.

The problem you are having Rob is, you have based your entire history of arguing religious matters because you claimed Fact was better than Faith.

Fact = Smart

Faith = Stupid.

Now that you have been shown that you too practice faith, you are trying to spin out of it the best you can whilst saving face.

Religious, or non-religious Faith is in the picture. Like it or not.

If you have trust or confidence in God, you have faith in God.

If you have trust or confidence in science, you have faith in science.

There is nothing wrong with having ideas or having faith. It's not a sign of weakness I assure you.

Kevin · Dec 7, 2005, 11:22 AM

Originally Posted by SuvsareRetarded

He's been doing that a lot lately. I think the jesus is getting to him. In just a few months he'll probably be missing teeth, have a camaro, mullet, and a big fat wife who plays church music.

Rob shall we go through your past threads of your life happenings that read out like a bad episode of Jerry Springer and Cops?

I don't think you want to go there.

SuvsareRetarded · Dec 7, 2005, 11:30 AM

Originally Posted by Kevin

etc

So is it possible to believe anything without faith?

SuvsareRetarded · Dec 7, 2005, 11:31 AM

Originally Posted by Kevin

Rob shall we go through your past threads of your life happenings that read out like a bad episode of Jerry Springer and Cops?

I don't think you want to go there.

You mean me the suburban white kid taking pictures of some squads and getting ****ed by the police? I don't really care. I did nothing wrong. The cops acted like nutballs, and I'm going to court over it.

Kevin · Dec 7, 2005, 11:35 AM

Originally Posted by SuvsareRetarded

So is it possible to believe anything without faith?

Depends on your point of view. Go read nonhumans posts again. He explains it better than I do/could.

Originally Posted by SuvsareRetarded

You mean me the suburban white kid taking pictures of some squads and getting ****ed by the police?

Most people that are referred to as "rednecks" do come from the burbs Rob. Not that I am calling you one, but if between the two of us, if ANYONE is a redneck...

And that wasn't the only thread I was referring to.

SuvsareRetarded · Dec 7, 2005, 11:37 AM

Originally Posted by Kevin

Most people that are referred to as "rednecks" do come from the burbs Rob. Not that I am calling you one, but if between the two of us, if ANYONE is a redneck....

Keep going. How am I a redneck? Do I have a factory job? Do I watch nascar? Do I drink shitty beer? Do I have a mullet?

I'm a ****ing kid from the burbs who went to college on and off, worked a while in a professional white collar environment, worked a few other jobs, and I'm now a design student with a phat scholarship. For hte past 3 years of my life I've lived downtown downtown in pretty big cities.

But yeah, I could see how I'd look like a redneck through your jesus glasses. Through jesus glasses, nothing needs to make sense!

Kevin · Dec 7, 2005, 11:44 AM

Originally Posted by SuvsareRetarded

Keep going. How am I a redneck? Do I have a factory job? Do I watch nascar? Do I drink shitty beer? Do I have a mullet?

AGAIN ROB, you are missing my point and NOT reading my posts. I never SAID you were a redneck. I said you were pointing fingers to me as if I were, while your life seems to have more of a redneck tinge to it than mine does. I found it humorous.

Understand? I usually don't use terms like "redneck" or "white trash" to desribe someone anyhow.

I'm a ****ing kid from the burbs who went to college on and off, worked a while in a professional white collar environment, worked a few other jobs, and I'm now a design student with a phat scholarship. For hte past 3 years of my life I've lived downtown downtown in pretty big cities.

And that is my point Rob. I too lived in the it, actually HAVE a college degree, work in the professional "white collar" environment working IN the design field (Have for the past 10 years)

I've never owned a RWD muscle car, never had a mullet, never gotten in trouble with the law, don't have sexist views etc. So you have no reason to be inferering that I am one either.

THAT WAS MY WHOLE POINT,

But yeah, I could see how I'd look like a redneck through your jesus glasses. Through jesus glasses, nothing needs to make sense!

When you say things like this Rob, that is when the "redneck" in you comes out.

But just like the "rednecks" that say such things, they think it's cool and superior.

So yeah..

SuvsareRetarded · Dec 7, 2005, 12:01 PM

I hate to break it to you, but rednecks are usually all about the jesus.

Kevin · 12:15 PM

Originally Posted by SuvsareRetarded

I hate to break it to you, but rednecks are usually all about the jesus.

No, usually the term "rednecks" refers to the beer swillin moon shining mullet wearing, crank smoking, muscle car owning "hell raisers" getting married at early ages, having kids at early ages, etc. And has nothing to do with religion. More to do with skin color and the rural laboring class, than what they believe in.

You however want it to because of your "redneck" outlook on those that are religious. Therefore you project it into it. Which says more about you, than those religious.

But regardless even it it were, that would be like me saying, just beause you act like a redneck on here, and have owned a muscle car, you are a redneck too.

BTW there is nothing wrong with living a simplistic southern life. Alot of the people that do, look down on those that don't as well, and call em "yankees" Just like you call them "rednecks"

In the south, you'd be the "redneck"

All in perspective.

SuvsareRetarded · Dec 7, 2005, 12:15 PM

Originally Posted by Kevin

More to do with skin color and the rural laboring class, than what they believe in.

>sigh<

White people who work blue collar jobs are generally christian. Do the math.

Kevin · Dec 7, 2005, 12:16 PM

Originally Posted by SuvsareRetarded

>sigh<

White people who work blue collar jobs are generally christian. Do the math.

People who make broad biggoted generalizations would also be known as rednecks.

Or having the word "retarded" in your internet "handle"

Severed Hand of Skywalker · Dec 7, 2005, 01:28 PM

Originally Posted by SuvsareRetarded

I hate to break it to you, but rednecks are usually all about the jesus.

+ Trailer parks, bad haircuts and sexy cousins.

jcadam · Dec 7, 2005, 01:33 PM

Take it to politics/religion forum. We're trying to make fun of the fat crazy lady here.

nonhuman · Dec 7, 2005, 01:37 PM

Can we leave the muscle cars out of this please. My Camaro and I would really appreciate it.

Severed Hand of Skywalker · Dec 7, 2005, 01:38 PM

Originally Posted by jcadam

Take it to politics/religion forum. We're trying to make fun of the fat crazy lady here.

I think the whole point as always is that once some religious nut finds this thread they try to derail it.

Kevin · Dec 7, 2005, 02:11 PM

Originally Posted by Severed Hand of Skywalker

I think the whole point as always is that once some religious nut finds this thread they try to derail it.

SWF, just a heads up. Your old "Derail thread, then blame shift" game doesn't work.

This thread was never about religion until you and Rob started the biggoted comments about Christians.

You don't play innocent very well.

SuvsareRetarded · Dec 7, 2005, 02:15 PM

Originally Posted by Kevin

SWF, just a heads up. Your old "Derail thread, then blame shift" game doesn't work.

This thread was never about religion

Are you ****ing joking? Did you see the video? It's about a christian spazzing out.

Oisín · Dec 7, 2005, 02:21 PM

*sigh*

As always, the thread was derailed either by someone with an (anti-)Christian or an (anti-)gay agenda trying (and succeeding all to well) to incite their usual opponents. We all know this, and there has been nothing in the past, say, 50 posts in this thread that has warranted in any way that any of them be posted in the first place.

Could someone please just come in here and lock this thread already?

Kevin · Dec 7, 2005, 02:22 PM

Originally Posted by SuvsareRetarded

Are you ****ing joking? Did you see the video? It's about a christian spazzing out.

No, her talking about religious things has nothing to do with it.

She has mental problems Rob.

Originally Posted by Oisín

*sigh*

As always, the thread was derailed either by someone with an (anti-)Christian or an (anti-)gay agenda trying (and succeeding all to well) to incite their usual opponents. We all know this, and there has been nothing in the past, say, 50 posts in this thread that has warranted in any way that any of them be posted in the first place.

Could someone please just come in here and lock this thread already?

I don't remember any anti-gay comments being posted in the thread.