[MindFad]

So I'm flipping through a MacConnection magazine today, and I stumble upon Flightcheck Pro by MarkzWare. You'll see the clipboard with the green checkmark on the software box. The original one I made here a long while ago:



Flattering that a company would rip off one of my old, cheesy clipboard icons, but I was never contacted or asked about it. So what are my options besides tell them to stop? Hmm, maybe I can ask them for a job, since apparently no one at the company can even make software box art with original work. I would like them to take it off, though.

It's just lame. If they had just asked, I probably would've been cool with it.

[Spheric Harlot]

Sue them for ten percent of their profits.

[ManOfSteal]

Originally posted by Spheric Harlot:
Sue them for ten percent of their profits.

But he wants money I think.

[nredman]

Originally posted by MindFad:
So I'm flipping through a MacConnection magazine today, and I stumble upon Flightcheck Pro by MarkzWare. You'll see the clipboard with the green checkmark on the software box. The original one I made here a long while ago:



Flattering that a company would rip off one of my old, cheesy clipboard icons, but I was never contacted or asked about it. So what are my options besides tell them to stop? Hmm, maybe I can ask them for a job, since apparently no one at the company can even make software box art with original work. I would like them to take it off, though.

It's just lame. If they had just asked, I probably would've been cool with it.

email me them, maybe you can get them to give you credit or link to your website? thats pretty shady though, sue em

[ThisGuy]

Originally posted by manofsteal:
But he wants money I think.

hey ooooooooooo!

[MindFad]

[Truepop]

Send them a bill

[spacefreak]

dp

[Severed Hand of Skywalker]

I would send them a bill for fun.

If they update the app and keep the icon then send them a nasty letter telling them to stop.

[spacefreak]

Can you scan the MacConnection piece you saw?

I just want to see the box closer than what they show on the website, but perhaps I'll take your word for it. Is the image the exact icon as yours, but with a green check? Or is it different image, but the same concept?

[olePigeon]

I would send them a bill for however much you charge for your icons accompanied by a letter saying that if they wish to continue to use your proprietary artwork, they need to sign an official license agreement.

[ort888]

It could be that they hired someone to create them an icon and then that person stole it from you.

I bet they don't even know it's not legit.

[MindFad]

Originally posted by Severed Hand of Skywalker:
I would send them a bill for fun.

If they update the app and keep the icon then send them a nasty letter telling them to stop.

I think I will do this for the hell of it. Should be funny to see what they do, or maybe I'll get a check.

Originally posted by spacefreak:
Can you scan the MacConnection piece you saw?

I just want to see the box closer than what they show on the website, but perhaps I'll take your word for it. Is the image the exact icon as yours, but with a green check? Or is it different image, but the same concept?

The pic in the magazine is just as tiny, but it's obvious looking at the website box that it's the icon just with the green check. And if there was any question, just take a look at their registration page, where they have another of my clipboard icons from the set:

http://register.markzware.com/cgi-bin/register.cgi

Damn it.

I'll write these mofos.

Originally posted by ort888:
It could be that they hired someone to create them an icon and then that person stole it from you.

I bet they don't even know it's not legit.

I considered this. I'll just inform them first, then offer up a bill and license maybe.

[dillerX]

they may have hired out the graphic work on the box. be polite at first, if they don't let you know who/where the design came from, hire yourself a lawyer and get some green.

[MindFad]

Originally posted by dillerX:
they may have hired out the graphic work on the box. be polite at first, if they don't let you know who/where the design came from, hire yourself a lawyer and get some green.

I'll be nice at first, of course. I don't know about fancy legal stuff; I'd rather deal with it without that kind of hassle (of which I have no experience with anyway). I could send Phil to go kick some ass perhaps.

[Macfreak7]

Sign a contract to have them pay you $.50 per icon for every license they ever sell (or sold) if the software includes any of your icons.

Then hope they become successful, and retire.

[Lancer409]

Originally posted by MindFad:

[BlueSky]

Check this out and see if it applies to you. It's geared towards web pages but it might give you some pointers. There's also a letter you can customize and send to the thieves.

[storer]

you probably won't have any luck unless your prove you made that icon a long time ago. But send them a logical, but not abusive letter about it.

[FulcrumPilot]

Get a two bit lawyer to send a cease and desist or face the consequences letter!

[MindFad]

Originally posted by Bluesky:
Check this out and see if it applies to you. It's geared towards web pages but it might give you some pointers. There's also a letter you can customize and send to the thieves.

Great, thanks!

[starman]

Just don't pull a hissy fit that the mixthepix.com guy did.

Mike

[ironknee]

Originally posted by starman:
Just don't pull a hissy fit that the mixthepix.com guy did.

Mike

what did he do?

[starman]

A company did the same thing so he brought his site down. Completely. Some of the best icons ever made and he won't release them anymore.

Mike

[effgee]

Originally posted by ort888:
It could be that they hired someone to create them an icon and then that person stole it from you. I bet they don't even know it's not legit.

Possible. But as far as liability is concerned, they are responsible since they are the ones (knowingly or not) selling a product containing unlicensed artwork.

If a contractor "ripped off" Mindfad's work and they have a proper contractual agreement with the firm/guy, they can (and should) collect damages from them/him afterwards, of course.

Just don't let them off the hook too easily - Flightcheck Pro is a fscking expensive piece of software (≥ $1,000.00) and the application icon is an integral part of the product branding.

[fireside]

Originally posted by starman:
A company did the same thing so he brought his site down. Completely. Some of the best icons ever made and he won't release them anymore.

Mike

and its been that way for like 2 years. get over it Hein!

[alligator]

Without telling you my profession, here's what you need to do:

1. Hire an attorney who specializes in intellectual property law, specifically copyright law.
2. Send them a notice letter regarding copyright infringement.
3. Embed a watermark in all of your future images
4. Make sure you have a copyright notice on or near the images on the site where they are posted. A copyright notice can look like: (c) 2004 John Smith It's that simple, and you do not need to register your work to put the copyright notice on the work.
5. If you can convince them to sign a license agreement - do it (doubtful since they will simply redesign the work), otherwise look into statutory damages for copyright infringement.

Be warned, the cost of the attorney and any possible litigation might outweigh any revenue you can expect for use, assuming you could prove copyright infringement.

Good luck!

[Superchicken]

I'd say e-mail the companyu and ask if they know it's your's.

[demograph68]

Originally posted by starman:
A company did the same thing so he brought his site down. Completely. Some of the best icons ever made and he won't release them anymore.

Mike

Does anyone here still haves his icons?

[starman]

I have some floating around here somewhere.

Mike

[Captain Obvious]

Well, the first problem I see is that you are all assuming Mindfad was first to make the image that resembles the one on the Markzware site. I am not familiar with the program but its on version 5 right now. The oldest listing I saw for it was for version 3.5 which dates back to 99. This is just a guess but I would say the original program goes back to around 1995. Being that Mindfad is not that old unless he made the image when he was 12 its going to be tough to prove the image concept originated with him.
It is far more likely that the one the Markzware people use is an evolved graphic based on one they had made when they first released the program.

Unless, there is some distinguishable watermark that you used to prove you made it then you are going to have a tough time proving you are the original creator.
Their lawyers are going to chew up your copyright infringement notice and send you one right back asking that you take yours down and they have the resources to follow up on that request. And I bet they took steps to ensure their copyrights hold up a long time ago.

If you really want to pursue this then you need an attorney. Say goodbye to your beer money, your nintendo money, and pretty much all your disposable income.

BTW: without telling you my profession? Easy there CIA guy you don't want to blow your cover.

[ManOfSteal]

Originally posted by demograph68:
Does anyone here still haves his icons?

Yeah, I have 4 or 5 of his icon sets still around. Which are you looking for?

[storer]

send them a letter. tell them how much you want. make it reasonable, the same or less it would cost to get another created. take it if they offer. thats probably the best you will get.

[Sandbaggins]

Nintendo money

[Xeo]

Some of you are assuming this is the icon on the app itself. All MindFad said is that he saw it in an add and they are also using it on a webpage.

So in response to CO, there's no real reason to think that this particular icon has been used for any version but the current. You mention that they've probably been around since '95 but the application icon wasn't necessarily a clipboard with a checkmark, and they very well could have never used such an icon ever before.

[MilkmanDan]

I enjoy the classic brick through the window approach. It always does wonders.

[Captain Obvious]

Originally posted by Xeo:
Some of you are assuming this is the icon on the app itself. All MindFad said is that he saw it in an add and they are also using it on a webpage.

So in response to CO, there's no real reason to think that this particular icon has been used for any version but the current. You mention that they've probably been around since '95 but the application icon wasn't necessarily a clipboard with a checkmark, and they very well could have never used such an icon ever before.

OK, so someone who cares should research and clarify all those points. I have never heard of the application or the company before last night. But if they are a relatively large company and this icon is closely linked to that program then I am sure they took more extensive steps than Mindfad to copyright the image
What actual proof does he have he made it first? Who runs the server he hosts his distributed icons on? Do they have dated records of the files being uploaded and can they corroborate that those files have not been changed/replaced since then?

If this company is just one developer then he might have a better chance compared to challenging an entire company. But I guarantee that if they care at all about having to replace the image with a new graphic that they will match all his claims to ownership and probably impress a larger amount of legal force then he can afford. In the end he may be the one having to take down his icon.

If he is not making money on the distribution of his icon sets then he should take this as a lesson to protect and copyright his work.

[MrBS]

Any action taken?

(ah ha. Got this topic to have a red dot next to it. much easier to track)

I'd like to hear how this turns out.

~BS

[storer]

Originally posted by MilkmanDan:
I enjoy the classic brick through the window approach. It always does wonders.

[TheJoshu]

Originally posted by Captain Obvious:
Well, the first problem I see is that you are all assuming Mindfad was first to make the image that resembles the one on the Markzware site. I am not familiar with the program but its on version 5 right now. The oldest listing I saw for it was for version 3.5 which dates back to 99. This is just a guess but I would say the original program goes back to around 1995. Being that Mindfad is not that old unless he made the image when he was 12 its going to be tough to prove the image concept originated with him.
It is far more likely that the one the Markzware people use is an evolved graphic based on one they had made when they first released the program.

Why would you assume the icon used on the current packaging of version 5 of the software has ever been used before version 5?

It'd be pretty easy to tell, with a larger image, whether it's identical or not.

[CharlesS]

God, that's annoying. I had that happen to me once - the developers of this shitty app decided to use an ancient version of Pacifist's icon for their "Prebinding" tab. I asked them to remove it in September 2003 and they promised they would, and still haven't.

[Xeo]

Originally posted by CharlesS:
God, that's annoying. I had that happen to me once - the developers of this shitty app decided to use an ancient version of Pacifist's icon for their "Prebinding" tab. I asked them to remove it in September 2003 and they promised they would, and still haven't.

That folder thing was Pacifist's icon?

[MacOSR]

If you are serious about protecting your work contact a good corporate attorney. I have sewed in the past for copyright infringement and won. If you want to stay in business you must protect your IP.

[Xeo]

Originally posted by TheJoshu:
Why would you assume the icon used on the current packaging of version 5 of the software has ever been used before version 5?

It'd be pretty easy to tell, with a larger image, whether it's identical or not.

That's exactly what I was trying to say but I guess CO didn't catch that.

CO, I agree with you that if they have used some version of this icon for their app since version 1, then MindFad is going to have a hard time proving they stole this one. But if this is the first time they have used something like this, then it wouldn't be as difficult.

[CharlesS]

Originally posted by Xeo:
That folder thing was Pacifist's icon?

Try downloading the actual app instead of looking at the screenshot. Yes, they changed the screenshot but not the app itself. I guess they think I'm too lazy to check.

This is what that tab looks like in the actual app if you download it:



I guess the fact that the screenshot is changed means that they've changed it in their latest builds, and it'll be changed whenever they release a new version... but it's been over a year since they told me the icon would be removed in the next version, and still nothing has happened.

[Xeo]

Originally posted by CharlesS:
Try downloading the actual app instead of looking at the screenshot. Yes, they changed the screenshot but not the app itself. I guess they think I'm too lazy to check.

This is what that tab looks like in the actual app if you download it:



I guess the fact that the screenshot is changed means that they've changed it in their latest builds, and it'll be changed whenever they release a new version... but it's been over a year since they told me the icon would be removed in the next version, and still nothing has happened.

Wow, that is crappy. They even changed the screenshot. That's just not right.

[TETENAL]

That must be the crappiest looking application ever, by the way.

Who would want to run an app of someone who can't even steal an icon properly. I wouldn't want to know how the code looks like.

[zigzag]

You have an automatic copyright in an original work. However, as C.O. said, you should probably try to determine who actually created it first. You can do this independently, or write to them, tell them when you created your image, and state that unless they can document that they created it before you did, you demand that they cease and desist.

Even if you created it first, you have some problems:

a) You can't bring suit for copyright infringement unless and until you register the work.

b) It's not an infringement to independently create the same work. If you can't prove that they had access to and copied your design, you might not have a claim (but you should check with a copyright attorney about that).

c) As for a potential trademark infringement claim, you can normally only protect a trademark if you're actually using it in connection with an actual product or service.

You can write to them but if it's not on a lawyer's letterhead and they know it's not registered, they'll probably ignore you or politely tell you to go away. But I suppose there's no harm in trying. If you pester them enough, you never know, they might throw you a bone.

[CharlesS]

Originally posted by TETENAL:
That must be the crappiest looking application ever, by the way.

Indeed. It looks even worse when you have the whole window to look at instead of that little portion I posted. This is actually the reason why I hate my app's icon (even an old, outdated version of it) being in there - I really don't want to be associated with this application.

Who would want to run an app of someone who can't even steal an icon properly. I wouldn't want to know how the code looks like.

I believe it's a RealBasic app. Although there are exceptions, that fact usually gives a fair clue of what the code probably looks like.

[Captain Obvious]

Originally posted by Xeo:
That's exactly what I was trying to say but I guess CO didn't catch that.

CO, I agree with you that if they have used some version of this icon for their app since version 1, then MindFad is going to have a hard time proving they stole this one. But if this is the first time they have used something like this, then it wouldn't be as difficult.

I caught it, maybe you didn�t catch what I said above. I said someone who has some vested interest should look into that.
Mindfad has given us no information besides the two images, one of which is not even large enough to discern if they are the same image. He is the one who needs to figure this information out. I am not going to look into it for him especially if I have nothing to gain from it. I am just giving you things you need to consider before you accuse them of violating your copyright.

But lets assume this company is smart enough to have consulted an attorney before they made the packaging, print ads, and incorporated the images into the program. They probably registered their copyrights at some point. If Midnfad cannot definitively prove the image in question was made before their own then he does not have much proof to go after them with.

And if I worked for this company I would turn the table on him and request he remove his image and keep up persistent pressure until he does so. Then I would contact whomever represents Nintendo and have them look into the derivative work Mindfad has done based on their copyrighted and trademarked material. If nothing else it may split his efforts enough to get him off our backs.

At this point even if everything was in his favor, which it is not, the best be could do is maybe get actual damages.