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NHL - 2011 Stanley Cup Playoffs (Page 4)
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freudling
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May 10, 2011, 02:54 PM
 
San Jose is a way better team than Detroit on the ice right now. They deserve to win. They had a goaltending breakdown in the 3rd last game. Detroit looks old and slow in comparison. Still a great team, but San Jose has all the potential to eliminate them tonight.

My prediction is that San Jose will win tonight. The Wings are injured and battered. It's going to be a hard game for them tonight with all their injured players on the ice trying to keep up to San Jose. If San Jose stays on their system and pushes hard every shift, it's going to be 5-1 San Jose.
     
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May 10, 2011, 03:10 PM
 
trade marleau
     
ort888
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May 10, 2011, 03:30 PM
 
Hockey is a sport that us practically impossible to predict.

I've been watching hockey for about 25 years now, and one (fairly unpopular) conclusion that I've come to is that hockey is about 50% luck. Your team can do everything right and still lose. It tends to balance out over the course of a season or (maybe) a 7 game series.

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ShortcutToMoncton
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May 10, 2011, 04:26 PM
 
I disagree. Generally the team with the better players in that game, wins. Not all of the time, but definitely most of the time.

And I think my statement will bear fruit.
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ort888
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May 10, 2011, 04:49 PM
 
That's the other 50%.

50% of the time, the better team will win because they were better. 25% of the time, the better team will get the good bounces and will win like they would have anyway. The other 25% of the time, the team that did not deserve to win despite being outplayed. Does this make sense?

The "problem" is that most teams aren't really that much better then each other. There is a lot of parity in the league right now. I'm not saying that playing hockey is like playing pachinko or something... just that it takes a lot of skill, a lot of hard work, a lot of teamwork, AND a lot of luck to go far in the playoffs.

A good player might have a 5% chance at scoring on a shot from the point on a powerplay. This player might be in nearly identical position 10 times in 10 straight games. Those 10 shots might result in 5 goals or 0 goals. You just don't know. But you keep doing the things to put yourself in the highest chance situation for success and hope for the best. The better team will generally win, but not always.

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May 10, 2011, 05:02 PM
 
I feel there's been a mathematical error here somewhere but La Fin du Monde will not let me identify it
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freudling
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May 10, 2011, 05:44 PM
 
Those percentages you guys threw out are hilarious.

Anyway... in the playoffs, it all comes down to goaltending. You have to have amazing goaltending to advance. If San Jose had great goaltending last game, they would have won. Period. San Jose 42 shots to 22 for Detroit. Howard stood strong and tall, and won Detroit the game.

Goalies have to stand on their heads, because of how close the teams are in terms of skill.
     
ort888
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May 10, 2011, 05:50 PM
 
Are they 100% hilarious?

If I could talk for 5 minutes I could explain exactly what I mean. I'm not a crazy person... I mean, I am a crazy person, but not about this.

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May 10, 2011, 06:27 PM
 
i feel the wings made it fun; but will be out of gas tonight. even with the couple of line-up changes...just think it won't be enough.
     
ShortcutToMoncton
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May 10, 2011, 06:36 PM
 
Originally Posted by freudling View Post
Those percentages you guys threw out are hilarious.

Anyway... in the playoffs, it all comes down to goaltending. You have to have amazing goaltending to advance. If San Jose had great goaltending last game, they would have won. Period. San Jose 42 shots to 22 for Detroit. Howard stood strong and tall, and won Detroit the game.

Goalies have to stand on their heads, because of how close the teams are in terms of skill.
Yes, except for Niemi and Fleury, the last two SC goalies, and except for the Detroit Red Wings, who've consistently used their system to win because it makes average goaltenders look great....

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May 10, 2011, 06:56 PM
 
niemi sucks, put in nitty.

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May 10, 2011, 06:57 PM
 
Originally Posted by freudling View Post
Those percentages you guys threw out are hilarious.

Anyway... in the playoffs, it all comes down to goaltending. You have to have amazing goaltending to advance. If San Jose had great goaltending last game, they would have won. Period. San Jose 42 shots to 22 for Detroit. Howard stood strong and tall, and won Detroit the game.

Goalies have to stand on their heads, because of how close the teams are in terms of skill.
Here is something the two of us agree on about hockey.
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May 10, 2011, 07:03 PM
 
...even though Vancouver has made it through two rounds with Luongo not having to be anything but "good"?
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freudling
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May 10, 2011, 10:42 PM
 
San Jose played horrible. Brutal. They couldn't sustain any offence. Jesus, just brutal. Terrible breakouts, terrible front-line performance. Great goaltending but there was no team in front. Come on Marleau, get your crap together.
     
OldManMac
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May 10, 2011, 10:58 PM
 
They were outplayed, by a better team.
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Athens
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May 10, 2011, 11:07 PM
 
If Detroit wins next game I was dead on for 3 out of my 4 Predictions
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May 10, 2011, 11:20 PM
 
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freudling
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May 11, 2011, 12:36 AM
 
Originally Posted by Athens View Post
If Detroit wins next game I was dead on for 3 out of my 4 Predictions
You and your dead on.
     
freudling
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May 11, 2011, 12:37 AM
 
Originally Posted by OldManMac View Post
They were outplayed, by a better team.
Detroit was the better team today. But they are not a better team in general. If San Jose plays like they can, they can beat Detroit. Matter of fact, they've already beaten them 3 times.
     
ShortcutToMoncton
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May 11, 2011, 06:12 AM
 
Originally Posted by freudling View Post
Detroit was the better team today. But they are not a better team in general. If San Jose plays like they can, they can beat Detroit. Matter of fact, they've already beaten them 3 times.
Ummm, actually, Detroit is the better team in general. They've got some real big injuries right now. Not to take anything away from San Jose, but if Dats, Zetterberg and Franzen were healthy...those are some big names pushing through injuries.

greg
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OldManMac
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May 11, 2011, 08:38 AM
 
Originally Posted by freudling View Post
Detroit was the better team today. But they are not a better team in general. If San Jose plays like they can, they can beat Detroit. Matter of fact, they've already beaten them 3 times.
Your opinion is duly noted, but IMO Detroit is the better team, with more experience, and depth, than any NHL team. There's a reason they're the only team in professional sports to make the playoffs 20 straight years, and Mike Babcock is the only coach to win 50 games, or more, in four consecutive seasons. Detroit is Hockeytown!
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ort888
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May 11, 2011, 10:31 AM
 
First of all, they might hold the record for current playoff streak, but the Blues made the playoffs for 25 straight years. Didn't do them much good.

Second of all, "Hockeytown" is a marketing slogan thought up by an ad agency in the mid-nineties. Saying "Detroit is Hockeytown!" with pride is like saying "I love Taco Bell, I Think Outside The Bun!" with a straight face.

"Hey man, cool car!" "Thanks... It's a BMW... [dramatic pause] the ULTIMATE driving machine."

Third of all, **** Detroit. Detroit has won 4 cups in the last 15 years thanks to some form of unholy pact with the sinister forces of the underworld. There is no reason to present stats beyond that. That should be all you need.
( Last edited by ort888; May 11, 2011 at 10:58 AM. )

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OldManMac
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May 11, 2011, 10:52 AM
 
Originally Posted by ort888 View Post
First of all, the Blues made the playoffs for 25 straight years. Didn't do them much good.
Didn't know that. Learn something new everyday. I was always under the impression that Detroit had the record. They do hold the current record however, and are still the best team in hockey today.

Second of all, "Hockeytown" is a marketing slogan thought up by an ad agency in the mid-nineties. Saying "Detroit is Hockeytown!" with pride is like saying "I love Taco Bell, I Think Outside The Bun!" with a straight face.

Third of all, **** Detroit.
Your opinion is duly noted. I could say **** You, but I don't need to stoop to that level. It's amazing how much negative energy some people waste.
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ort888
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May 11, 2011, 11:07 AM
 
Originally Posted by OldManMac View Post
...and are still the best team in hockey today.
That's debatable. What we need is some sort of system for determining who the best team is. Maybe we take all the teams, and have them play a large amount of games against each other... and then we take the 16 teams with the best records and have them play in some sort of elimination tournament, eventually getting down to one team, which would then be considered the best.
( Last edited by ort888; May 11, 2011 at 12:22 PM. )

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olePigeon  (op)
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May 11, 2011, 12:12 PM
 
God damn Sharks.
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freudling
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May 11, 2011, 03:38 PM
 
Originally Posted by OldManMac View Post
Didn't know that. Learn something new everyday. I was always under the impression that Detroit had the record. They do hold the current record however, and are still the best team in hockey today.



Your opinion is duly noted. I could say **** You, but I don't need to stoop to that level. It's amazing how much negative energy some people waste.
Well, objectively, if we're going to say "This is the best team", this year, it's the Vancouver Canucks, who finished first and won the President's Trophy. Period. End of story.
     
CreepDogg
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May 11, 2011, 03:44 PM
 
Originally Posted by freudling View Post
Well, objectively, if we're going to say "This is the best team", this year, it's the Vancouver Canucks, who finished first and won the President's Trophy. Period. End of story.
Or we could say it's the team that currently holds the Stanley Cup, which is the Chicago Blackhawks. Until someone else wins it.
     
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May 11, 2011, 03:46 PM
 
Well considering the Hawks did poorly in the regular season and have already been ousted in the playoffs by the Canucks, we can at least conclude that it's not them, no?
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freudling
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May 11, 2011, 05:14 PM
 
Originally Posted by CreepDogg View Post
Or we could say it's the team that currently holds the Stanley Cup, which is the Chicago Blackhawks. Until someone else wins it.
Canucks, first in the league, President's Trophy, eliminated the Blackhawks. Period. End of story.
     
Athens
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May 11, 2011, 06:09 PM
 
Another way you can look at it is with the Awards. Which team has the most nominees playing for them. In the end wont know the years best team until the fat lady sings and the cup is dished out and the awards are given.

VAN = 7 Heart Memorial, Vezina, Frank J Selke Trophy, Jack Adams Award, Ted Lindsay Award, x2 NHL Foundation Award
TBL = 3 Heart Memorial, Lady Byng Memorial, Ted Lindsay Award
ANA = 3 Heart Memorial, Bill Masterton Memorial, Ted Lindsay Award
DET = 3 James Norris Memorial, Lady Byng Memorial, Frank J Selke Trophy
NSH = 3 Vezina, James Norris Memorial, Jack Adams Award,
BOS = 2 Vezina, James Norris Memorial,
SJS = 1 Calder Memorial
NYI = 1 Calder Memorial
CAR = 1 Calder Memorial
DAL = 1 Lady Byng Memorial
CHI = 1 Frank J Selke Trophy
PIT = 1 Jack Adams Award,
CGY = 1 Bill Masterton Memorial,
PHI = 1 Bill Masterton Memorial,
LAK = 1 NHL Foundation Award
WSH = 1 NHL Foundation Award
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May 12, 2011, 09:49 AM
 
What we DO know is that Canuck fans apparently don't have much of a sense of humor.
     
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May 12, 2011, 01:55 PM
 
Its not enough that we just beat you but we need to break you too (J/K)
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olePigeon  (op)
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May 12, 2011, 11:46 PM
 
Yes!!! Yes!!! Go sharks! Go sharks! **** yeah!!!! Woooooooo!!!!!!!!
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freudling
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May 12, 2011, 11:47 PM
 
Originally Posted by OldManMac View Post
Your opinion is duly noted, but IMO Detroit is the better team, with more experience, and depth, than any NHL team. There's a reason they're the only team in professional sports to make the playoffs 20 straight years, and Mike Babcock is the only coach to win 50 games, or more, in four consecutive seasons. Detroit is Hockeytown!
Hey it's Hockeytown! You've just been dusted. See ya later.
     
CreepDogg
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May 12, 2011, 11:48 PM
 
Well, we know that at least one perennial playoff choker will be in the finals this year. History will be made!
     
OldManMac
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May 12, 2011, 11:50 PM
 
Originally Posted by freudling View Post
Hey it's Hockeytown! You've just been dusted. See ya later.
Yeah, maybe we just need to crash the net and run into goalies.
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freudling
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May 12, 2011, 11:58 PM
 
Originally Posted by OldManMac View Post
Yeah, maybe we just need to crash the net and run into goalies.
It's over, better team won. Period. End of story.
     
exca1ibur
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May 13, 2011, 03:14 AM
 
Whoa that was a nail bitter there. Good job Sharks, but I have to give a hand to the Wings. They never gave up and fought till the very end.
     
freudling
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May 13, 2011, 11:10 AM
 
Originally Posted by exca1ibur View Post
Whoa that was a nail bitter there. Good job Sharks, but I have to give a hand to the Wings. They never gave up and fought till the very end.
Yes, indeed they did. But they're getting old. Amazing players... but the skill and talent of young teams just wears them down. Amazing they got this far. But they're a beaten up, tired bunch. Great effort though. I think San Jose will beat the Canucks because they have more depth.

Tampa and San Jose in the final.
     
olePigeon  (op)
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May 13, 2011, 11:28 AM
 
Couture's goal was pretty cool, but Datsyuk's was crazy awesome. I have to give him props.
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May 13, 2011, 11:36 AM
 
Im going with Vancouver and Boston in the finals.

I am expecting 6-7 games for both matchups for the semi-finals.
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olePigeon  (op)
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May 13, 2011, 11:40 AM
 
Athens, Wikipedia lists several more trophies than you list for San Jose. Although I don't know the significance of all of them, if any.
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May 13, 2011, 12:16 PM
 
Datsyuk is in my opinion the second-best hockey player on the planet today (with first-half Sid taking home the trophy...hard to beat the force of nature he became before his concussion). I don't think anyone is truly close to those two to be honest. You just have to sit back and be amazed.
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May 13, 2011, 12:19 PM
 
Originally Posted by freudling View Post
Yes, indeed they did. But they're getting old. Amazing players... but the skill and talent of young teams just wears them down. Amazing they got this far. But they're a beaten up, tired bunch.
Tampa and San Jose in the final.
Comedy gold.
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freudling
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May 13, 2011, 12:19 PM
 
Originally Posted by ShortcutToMoncton View Post
Datsyuk is in my opinion the second-best hockey player on the planet today (with first-half Sid taking home the trophy...hard to beat the force of nature he became before his concussion). I don't think anyone is truly close to those two to be honest. You just have to sit back and be amazed.
Ya, Dat's a good player. I just don't like him too much, he's a sycophant. But who cares, he's a great player no doubt.
     
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May 13, 2011, 12:27 PM
 
Sycophant?

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freudling
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May 13, 2011, 01:53 PM
 
Originally Posted by ShortcutToMoncton View Post
Sycophant?

"I do not think it means, what you think it means."
Yes, that's exactly what I mean. Anyway, forget it, it's my opinion of him, move on.
     
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May 13, 2011, 05:21 PM
 
Datsyuk is one of the most humble players out there; certainly no sycophant. Do you actually follow hockey?
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May 13, 2011, 06:04 PM
 
He strikes me as one of those people who watches 2-3 games a year but has an opinion on everything. Several people in here do actually. Playoff bandwagon jumper-oners. Not that there is anything super wrong about that. I'm a playoff bandwagon jumper-oner in baseball and football myself.

How many of you guys are actual die hard fans? As in, you own season tickets and/or watch 90%+ of the games, every year, year after year??

How is this for a sad fact, I've seen in person or on TV, 95% of all Blues games over the last decade, and at least 50% of Blues games the decade before that. Even when they've sucked, which is most of the time.

I used to be way more involved then I am now though, I used to keep up with every team, every player, all the news highlight, etc... now I can barely make time for my own team, so I am no longer an expert on the NHL as a whole. I mean, I know what's going on, but I don't live and breath the sport like I have in the past.

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freudling
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May 13, 2011, 07:04 PM
 
Originally Posted by ort888 View Post
He strikes me as one of those people who watches 2-3 games a year but has an opinion on everything. Several people in here do actually. Playoff bandwagon jumper-oners. Not that there is anything super wrong about that. I'm a playoff bandwagon jumper-oner in baseball and football myself.

How many of you guys are actual die hard fans? As in, you own season tickets and/or watch 90%+ of the games, every year, year after year??

How is this for a sad fact, I've seen in person or on TV, 95% of all Blues games over the last decade, and at least 50% of Blues games the decade before that. Even when they've sucked, which is most of the time.

I used to be way more involved then I am now though, I used to keep up with every team, every player, all the news highlight, etc... now I can barely make time for my own team, so I am no longer an expert on the NHL as a whole. I mean, I know what's going on, but I don't live and breath the sport like I have in the past.
Played hockey my whole life, played pro too. Still play hockey 3 times per week, and go to several NHL games.

I can't say I'm a huge "hockey fan". I love hockey the sport. I'm critical of these guys because I've played with the odd one, know a few... this combined with the fact they're making millions of dollars....

Anyway, who gives a shit what I think about x or y player. It's only my opinion, and mine alone. Enough said.
     
 
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