[Spheric Harlot]

Originally Posted by BLAZE_MkIV 

Eventually tablets and phones will have the performance for most computing tasks and when that happens I can see docking type solutions were the UI switches from touch to keyboard/mouse. Note I used switches.

Switching to a mouse/menu/window based interface will require completely different interface design for both modes, i.e. two sets of applications. More likely, two different machines.

Or Windows 8.

What will happen to iOS is that Apple figures out how to add features within the new interface construct, which will continue to obsolete "classic" computers for more and more tasks, and relegate them to niche markets. (See iPhoto on iPad for an example of how this might work.)

[besson3c]

Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot 

Apple is definitely NOT about "uniting the desktop OS and the mobile OS".

They are transferring features between the two, which makes sense, but unification is something they are explicitly NOT planning, and despite Microsoft's efforts, it actually makes very little sense to do so. Operating Metro with a mouse is apparently quite literally a total drag.

I would say that they are also unifying concepts, paradigms, and user experience where it makes sense to do so, but the difference is that they aren't bashing a square peg into a round hole and just pretending that a mouse is the same as a touch screen.

[freudling]

For any of you who say marketshare doesn't matter to developers...

Put your money where your mouth is. Why aren't you investing in developing for WebOS? Or Blackberry? Or even the Palm OS? Or while you're at it, the Newton OS?

Who cares about marketshare, right?

In other words, bullshit marketshare doesn't matter...

And this coming from the same people who say that Windows Phone 7 doesn't have enough Apps... they don't have the marketshare...

[besson3c]

Originally Posted by freudling 

For any of you who say marketshare doesn't matter to developers...

Put your money where your mouth is. Why aren't you investing in developing for WebOS? Or Blackberry? Or even the Palm OS? Or while you're at it, the Newton OS?

Who cares about marketshare, right?

In other words, bullshit marketshare doesn't matter...

And this coming from the same people who say that Windows Phone 7 doesn't have enough Apps... they don't have the marketshare...

If you are addressing me, this is a complete straw man argument.

I would develop for any of those devices in a heartbeat if my customers were on those devices. Their choice of platform doesn't always have everything to do with marketshare. For instance, I'm a musician and I know that a disproportionate number of musicians are on Macs. If I were to just go with the market leader and develop for Windows I could be missing out.

Marketshare numbers are useless because this is raw data that doesn't paint a complete picture.

[mduell]

Originally Posted by freudling 

For any of you who say marketshare doesn't matter to developers...

Put your money where your mouth is. Why aren't you investing in developing for WebOS? Or Blackberry? Or even the Palm OS? Or while you're at it, the Newton OS?

We've released apps for iOS, Android, BlackBerry OS 4-7, Blackberry 10/Tablet OS, Windows Phone 7, and Symbian S^3.

We don't offer WebOS, Palm OS, or Newton OS since they were all pulled from market. There's no path forward with them.

[freudling]

Originally Posted by mduell 

We've released apps for iOS, Android, BlackBerry OS 4-7, Blackberry 10/Tablet OS, Windows Phone 7, and Symbian S^3.

We don't offer WebOS, Palm OS, or Newton OS since they were all pulled from market. There's no path forward with them.

So because you've 'released' Apps for these OSes, that means marketshare doesn't matter? Nice logic.

And those Apps, was it 1 single App ported to these different OSes using things like PhoneGap...

[mduell]

Originally Posted by freudling 

So because you've 'released' Apps for these OSes, that means marketshare doesn't matter? Nice logic.

That was the logic you used and benchmark you set: For any of you who say marketshare doesn't matter to developers...
Put your money where your mouth is. Why aren't you investing in developing for WebOS? Or Blackberry? Or even the Palm OS? Or while you're at it, the Newton OS?

I also specified why we weren't developing for the dead platforms, as requested.

Originally Posted by freudling 

And those Apps, was it 1 single App ported to these different OSes using things like PhoneGap...

Full native app using native widgets/conventions for each platform based on a common brand/design/feature set. Even among platforms using a common language (notably the Java platforms) we weren't able to leverage any code reuse.

[freudling]

Originally Posted by mduell 

That was the logic you used and benchmark you set: For any of you who say marketshare doesn't matter to developers...
Put your money where your mouth is. Why aren't you investing in developing for WebOS? Or Blackberry? Or even the Palm OS? Or while you're at it, the Newton OS?

I also specified why we weren't developing for the dead platforms, as requested.



Full native app using native widgets/conventions for each platform based on a common brand/design/feature set. Even among platforms using a common language (notably the Java platforms) we weren't able to leverage any code reuse.

How many Apps besides the one airport App have you published, and was this for a client or from your own company's money that it invested to make the App?

[Spheric Harlot]

Freudling, put away your penis.

You're scaring the children, and the women are breaking into laughter.

[besson3c]

Originally Posted by freudling 

How many Apps besides the one airport App have you published, and was this for a client or from your own company's money that it invested to make the App?

I don't think you are asking the right question.

I think the question you should be asking is "do you have customers using these other devices, and are there enough to warrant the development effort?" Apparently the answer is yes.

Also, the way you are going about this is rather confrontational, don't you think?

[BLAZE_MkIV]

I'm curious about the SLOC, it's not thing to port small phone apps, its another for half a million line business apps.

[mduell]

Originally Posted by freudling 

How many Apps besides the one airport App have you published, and was this for a client or from your own company's money that it invested to make the App?

We put all of our features into a single app instead of splitting into multiple apps; there's 4 main sections of the app which some competitors split into different apps. This was our own investment, not a client project (we're not a software development house).

Originally Posted by BLAZE_MkIV 

I'm curious about the SLOC, it's not thing to port small phone apps, its another for half a million line business apps.

Varies by platform, about 10-100 KLOC each excluding 3rd party libraries.

[Athens]

Market penetration vs market share is a more valid way of looking at targeted markets. You could have a device with only 5% of market share holding 25% of a target group that you want to develop for. You could be developing something that is Canada only which could have 30% market share of one device that world wide only has 5% market share as well. Other important factors include what makes money. Android has a much larger market share then iPhone now world wide, yet the ability to make money is 2 to 1 on iOS because of the user demographics.

For Macs which have world wide market share of less then 10% but a larger market share in North America might lead to a more profitable application targeted at professionals that in there market is closer to 50% share, like for example music artists.

Its not good to look at world wide market share as a determining factor. Who the application is selling to, in what markets determine best practice.

Market share numbers are very skewed for Windows when the target is just consumers because of the amount of Windows machines that operate dedicated devices and work place PC's. I have almost 2 Windows PC for every user here and im not even factoring in vendor supplied machines. We have 6 PC's for UPS alone that the only task is to deal with UPS stuff. On the consumer side of things what my users use at home there are more consumer macs then consumer PC's in use. Count the computers they interact with at work it becomes 4 - 1 Windows in what makes up the market share.

Would be nice to see a market share for only home users to get a idea of what Apples penetration really is in the market place excluding all work computers, dedicated single purpose devices. I would bet the number is closer to 30% from personal observations.

[besson3c]

Originally Posted by Athens 

Market penetration vs market share is a more valid way of looking at targeted markets. You could have a device with only 5% of market share holding 25% of a target group that you want to develop for. You could be developing something that is Canada only which could have 30% market share of one device that world wide only has 5% market share as well. Other important factors include what makes money. Android has a much larger market share then iPhone now world wide, yet the ability to make money is 2 to 1 on iOS because of the user demographics.

For Macs which have world wide market share of less then 10% but a larger market share in North America might lead to a more profitable application targeted at professionals that in there market is closer to 50% share, like for example music artists.

Its not good to look at world wide market share as a determining factor. Who the application is selling to, in what markets determine best practice.

Market share numbers are very skewed for Windows when the target is just consumers because of the amount of Windows machines that operate dedicated devices and work place PC's. I have almost 2 Windows PC for every user here and im not even factoring in vendor supplied machines. We have 6 PC's for UPS alone that the only task is to deal with UPS stuff. On the consumer side of things what my users use at home there are more consumer macs then consumer PC's in use. Count the computers they interact with at work it becomes 4 - 1 Windows in what makes up the market share.

Would be nice to see a market share for only home users to get a idea of what Apples penetration really is in the market place excluding all work computers, dedicated single purpose devices. I would bet the number is closer to 30% from personal observations.

Yeah, market share vs. market penetration is a great way of looking at the stuff I've been babbling about!

[freudling]

Marketshare doesn't matter. Everyone should develop for Blackberry.

[besson3c]

It's as if none of the above responses happened.