Welcome to the MacNN Forums.

If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.

You are here: MacNN Forums > Software - Troubleshooting and Discussion > Applications > Pages doesn't compare to Microsoft Word (COME ON APPLE!)

Pages doesn't compare to Microsoft Word (COME ON APPLE!) (Page 3)
Thread Tools
Shades of Gray
Dedicated MacNNer
Join Date: Jun 2000
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jan 25, 2005, 02:52 PM
 
Slightly off-topic.

Originally posted by Millennium:
Because at least in the US (and, from what little data I've been able to gather), the quality of the average person's writing has gone down dramatically over the past decade or two, and spell/grammar checking is directly to blame. In their quest for 'ease of use', these features have instead taken the thinking not out of word processing, but out of writing itself.

I do not condemn grammar check as useless. I condemn it as something even worse: actively harmful.
It goes back much further back than that, long before personal computers, word processors, grammar checkers, spell checkers, etc. I graded seminary papers in 1982-1986, before any of the students had personal computers. These men had at least a four year college degree, some a graduate degree. And yet, the poor English grammar and spelling mistakes caused me to wonder whether they had ever learned anything about proper communication in the English language. Had I done that in the late 1950's and 1960's I never would have passed my English classes - in high school, let alone college and post-graduate school. I found it interesting that several of our students were non-native English speakers, and yet they often had better papers overall.

But it was not only poor grammar and spelling that contributed to the problem. There was an absence of proof-reading on the part of many of the students. I developed a habit through four years of college and nine years of post-graduate education to always re-write every paper five times (this was in the days when the first three drafts were by hand, and the final two were done on a manual typewriter). On the few occasions when I didn't follow this practice, I knew that the result would be less than satisfactory (in terms of acceptable writing) - and it always was.

So, it is not easy to assign one thing as "the cause" of the present predicament. Even now, if there is a longer post that I want to present in a forum, I will write it in a word processor, not for grammar or spell checking, but for thought development and cohesion.

From a dottering old fool...
Ignore the argumentative nature of this poster. He is old and can't engage in meaningful dialog
very long. Therefore, management asks that you at least humor him. Thanks.
     
leperkuhn
Senior User
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Burlington, VT, USA
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jan 25, 2005, 05:13 PM
 
Originally posted by Chuckit:
Why should you have to download a separate program to do anything? Why shouldn't Pages search the Web, edit images and play Super Nintendo games? In general, I would say you should have to justify why two features belong in the same program instead of why they don't.
A SNES emulator should be built into the OS. Available as a dashboard widget.
     
cpac
Professional Poster
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: New York, NY
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jan 25, 2005, 05:20 PM
 
Originally posted by leperkuhn:
A SNES emulator should be built into the OS. Available as a dashboard widget.
exactly.

And why stop at software? There should be a console-style controller shipped with every mac.

Actually, Apple should just partner with Sony and glue a PS2 onto the side of every mac mini (or vice-versa) - it'd only bump the price by $150...
cpac
     
leperkuhn
Senior User
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Burlington, VT, USA
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jan 25, 2005, 05:23 PM
 
Originally posted by Green Leaf:

I want each of you to list 5 things that you don't like in Pages or would like to see Pages have. Or is the program PERFECT in your eyes that you are unable to list anything?
1. spreadsheet
2. this might sound dumb, but a tool like access. it would have to be easy write the scripts for it too.. gotta be easier than cocoa. maybe applescript?
3. thesaurus would be nice, but I do have the ability to leave the program to check thesaurus.com.. so it's not really a huge problem, unless you want pages aggressively replacing words less than 4 characters or something..
4. drawing app.. maybe

I've been using pages for a few documents, it does what I want, and it does it quickly without getting in my way. I've been looking for an alternate to word, which gets in my way, trying to make lists, indenting automatically, and is generally slow. Not to mention i had to force quit the corrupt font checker app (or whatever the hell it runs on startup) and now it only recognizes like 2 fonts. I don't feel like trying to fix it, since I now have a tool that works perfectly.

Now if safari can handle the animated gifs at the bottom of this page better I'll be happy.

*shakes head*
     
leperkuhn
Senior User
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Burlington, VT, USA
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jan 25, 2005, 05:25 PM
 
Originally posted by cpac:
exactly.

And why stop at software? There should be a console-style controller shipped with every mac.

Actually, Apple should just partner with Sony and glue a PS2 onto the side of every mac mini (or vice-versa) - it'd only bump the price by $150...
And a helicopter. No computer is complete without an apache gunship.
     
Millennium
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Nov 1999
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jan 25, 2005, 05:26 PM
 
Originally posted by leperkuhn:
A SNES emulator should be built into the OS. Available as a dashboard widget.
For that matter, why download roms? They should bundle a copy of Super Metroid right alongside the OS.
You are in Soviet Russia. It is dark. Grue is likely to be eaten by YOU!
     
discotronic
Mac Elite
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Richmond,Va
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jan 25, 2005, 05:31 PM
 
Originally posted by leperkuhn:
And a helicopter. No computer is complete without an apache gunship.
I am hoping that Apple does something about this. The Blackhawk that my iMac came bundled with just doesn't have the speed and fire power that I need for day to day life
     
MrForgetable
Mac Elite
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: New York City, NY
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jan 25, 2005, 07:27 PM
 
iWork vs. Microsoft Office

must say I am pretty used to MS Office so I'll probably stay with it. iWork is nice though.
iamwhor3hay
     
Spirit_VW
Senior User
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Fort Worth, TX, USA
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jan 25, 2005, 07:48 PM
 
...
Kevin Buchanan
Fort Worthology
     
Green Leaf  (op)
Forum Regular
Join Date: Jun 2002
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jan 25, 2005, 07:55 PM
 
All of you keep saying that Pages isn't a word processor, but even Steve Jobs called it a word processor. What would you describe it as?


And, why haven't any of you mentioned things that Pages is missing, or is it perfect?

Only one person (Leperkun) was brave enough to mention a list:
1. spreadsheet
2. this might sound dumb, but a tool like access. it would have to be easy write the scripts for it too.. gotta be easier than cocoa. maybe applescript?
3. thesaurus would be nice, but I do have the ability to leave the program to check thesaurus.com.. so it's not really a huge problem, unless you want pages aggressively replacing words less than 4 characters or something..
4. drawing app.. maybe


Let me say this: First, a spreadsheet wouldn't be a part of Pages (as Pages is a word processor). You would need Sheets (Apple's soon to be announced spreadsheet application). Second, I already mentioned a thesarus (which everyone disagree's with). Third, a drawing application has nothing to do with a word processor, therefore it shouldn't be included.

Don't you see, the things i mentioned are RELATED to a word processor (which is what Pages is). You are mentioning things that have nothing to do with the product at hand.
( Last edited by Green Leaf; Jan 25, 2005 at 08:00 PM. )
     
zigzag
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Aug 2000
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jan 25, 2005, 09:04 PM
 
I don't think grammar checkers have been detrimental overall. In fact, if bad writers used them more often, I think they might learn to write better - interactivity can be an effective learning tool. I don't think grammar checkers are the problem - I think it's plain old ignorance and laziness, which has always been and will always be with us.

I try to be a conscientious writer, but Word occasionally causes me to reconsider a phrase or sentence. If I don't like Word's suggestion, I simply ignore it. I could live without the feature but neither does it bother me to have a few green lines show up on my document. If one doesn't like it, one can disable it.

Auto-cap is another matter - I hate it for the same reasons others do, especially when it comes up after an abbreviation. But again, one can always turn it off. If I have a complaint, it's that figuring out how to turn it off required a trip to Help. But let's face it: Word is about versatility, not simplicity.

When I tried Pages out in the store, I immediately noticed that the usual B-I-U buttons were missing. I'm sure this was a conscious decision on Apple's part, not an oversight, but it still surprised me (moreover, when I tried Apple-B, it didn't work, although the menu did). If Pages is supposed to replace AppleWorks, which includes an easy-to-use word processor for the rest of us, why would Apple not include one of the most commonly used features of a word processor? You can use the keyboard or menu, but why force a novice to do that? It's not as though B-I-U buttons would take up excessive amounts of space. If Apple is about ease-of-use, this strikes me as an odd departure.

Maybe part of the blame lies in Steve's pronouncement that Pages is a replacement for Apple Works. If in fact it's more of a layout program than a word processor, then perhaps he should've said so, because a lot of non-power users are going to be disappointed when they find ordinary things like B-I-U buttons missing.

My theory (which is strictly armchair, so don't flame me) is that Steve-o wants to induce people, including novices, to learn and adopt the Pages template approach and enter a world where overall style is more important than pedestrian functions like B-I-U. After all, style is Apple's strong suit, and Pages is obviously capable of creating very attractive and stylish documents. That's fine - my concern is that non-power users expecting ordinary WP options up front will be confused and disappointed.

Similarly, while it's certainly possible to use third-party spell-checks and thesauri, nowadays people expect those things to be built in. Ease of use should be the primary goal, even if power users think it's Mickey Mouse.

In sum, while Pages looks like a very promising app, I'm curious about some of the choices Apple made. I apologize up front if I've overlooked anything.
     
LaGow
Dedicated MacNNer
Join Date: Apr 2001
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jan 25, 2005, 09:06 PM
 
Okay, Greenleaf, I'll bite. My list:

1. Keyboard commands to style sheets
2.
3.
4.
5.

All I can think of right now. The thing is, Pages is nearly perfect...for me and other lightweight users like me who only write memos and other brief documents. I can now throw Word away entirely, which truly brings joy to my heart.
     
leperkuhn
Senior User
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Burlington, VT, USA
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jan 25, 2005, 09:53 PM
 
Originally posted by Green Leaf:
All of you keep saying that Pages isn't a word processor, but even Steve Jobs called it a word processor. What would you describe it as?


And, why haven't any of you mentioned things that Pages is missing, or is it perfect?

Only one person (Leperkun) was brave enough to mention a list:
1. spreadsheet
2. this might sound dumb, but a tool like access. it would have to be easy write the scripts for it too.. gotta be easier than cocoa. maybe applescript?
3. thesaurus would be nice, but I do have the ability to leave the program to check thesaurus.com.. so it's not really a huge problem, unless you want pages aggressively replacing words less than 4 characters or something..
4. drawing app.. maybe

my ideas were more related to iWork replacing Office as a whole. The spreadsheet, while not part of pages, would directly tie in via drag & drop, and would thusly enhance pages. graphs and whatever could be used right in pages.

as far as weaknesses in pages, the lack of thesaurus and font menu are my only two gripes. but the formatting options are, in my opinion, much more accessible than in Word. I'm very happy using Pages so far but I'll keep you posted if I find anything I don't like.
     
leperkuhn
Senior User
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Burlington, VT, USA
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jan 25, 2005, 10:00 PM
 
Originally posted by LaGow:
Okay, Greenleaf, I'll bite. My list:

1. Keyboard commands to style sheets
2.
3.
4.
5.

All I can think of right now. The thing is, Pages is nearly perfect...for me and other lightweight users like me who only write memos and other brief documents. I can now throw Word away entirely, which truly brings joy to my heart.
If you consult my list, you know I feel the same. I've been using pages to write proposals, update my resume, and various other activities. At no point have I required something that isn't there.
     
leperkuhn
Senior User
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Burlington, VT, USA
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jan 25, 2005, 10:03 PM
 
The font panel has the bold option. I don't see why it's getting such much attention.
     
zigzag
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Aug 2000
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jan 25, 2005, 10:08 PM
 
Originally posted by leperkuhn:
The font panel has the bold option. I don't see why it's getting such much attention.
True. Maybe the complaint is that it shouldn't be necessary to keep a font panel open in order to do this, but maybe it's just a matter of changing habits. I'd be curious to hear Apple's take on it.
     
Love Calm Quiet
Mac Elite
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: CO
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jan 25, 2005, 10:14 PM
 
My complaint would be... "I like OPTIONS." Keyboard short-cut options in particular.

I believe a guy named Steve has sometimes expressed the same preference. (for having options, that is)
TOMBSTONE: "He's trashed his last preferences"
     
poocat
Mac Elite
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: various
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jan 25, 2005, 11:35 PM
 
Isn't that Gates' new slogan? Give the customers choice? Kinda funny, really.

I'm glad to see that Shades of Gray thinks it's laziness and zigzag thinks it's not so bad. First, i have grammar check off. I don't like it. Nor do i want one in Pages. But i would never be so bold as to claim that it's the reason people don't know how to write. Nor would i be so bold as to claim

Originally posted by LaGow
On the other hand, anyone who's too lazy to, for instance, go to the trouble of capitalizing an "I" when using it as a personal pronoun is really not worth much, if any, attention as it's clear he or she doesn't really care. This sort of literary ambivalence may seem cool (after all, didn't e.e. cummings do it?!?), but it comes off as uneducated. You either care about what you write enough to learn how to do it well (or at least well enough) or risk being ridiculed as an AOL IM-kiddie. Or worse, ignored.
because that seems both presumptuous and rude.

I'd hoped that wouldn't draw any attack, since i write w/o capping i within sentences simply because i want to. When writing any document for others to read, i of course apply the capital. However, i spend a lot of my life writing in one way or the other, and occasionally forget. I appreciate Word for not making me check each I. I like that it animates the change, so i know it remembered.

Just because you don't use something, or don't think something is "mature-sounding", doesn't mean you need to deride those who do.

There were some great posts about bloat that were well-articulated above,
but have since been trapped on the previous page. Thanks.

Oh, Green Leaf, i'm not really on your side. Your original post was both overaggressive and incredibly unnecessary. However, you elicited some unnecessary responses too, so that's what i was commenting on.

Page away people. I'm glad to see it's well received. I bet the next version rocks.

And speaking of options... is anyone else miffed with iLife's overall lack of keyboard shortcuts?
     
Amorya
Mac Elite
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: England
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jan 25, 2005, 11:40 PM
 
Originally posted by Green Leaf:
Second, I already mentioned a thesarus (which everyone disagree's with).
Not everyone disagreed - I said it might be useful, although I'd prefer it to be implemented as a service so that all apps could use it.

Incidentally, it seems that Tiger will include one.


Amorya
What the nerd community most often fail to realize is that all features aren't equal. A well implemented and well integrated feature in a convenient interface is worth way more than the same feature implemented crappy, or accessed through a annoying interface.
     
LaGow
Dedicated MacNNer
Join Date: Apr 2001
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jan 26, 2005, 12:14 AM
 
Originally posted by poocat:
Isn't that Gates' new slogan? Give the customers choice? Kinda funny, really.

I'm glad to see that Shades of Gray thinks it's laziness and zigzag thinks it's not so bad. First, i have grammar check off. I don't like it. Nor do i want one in Pages. But i would never be so bold as to claim that it's the reason people don't know how to write. Nor would i be so bold as to claim



because that seems both presumptuous and rude.

I'd hoped that wouldn't draw any attack, since i write w/o capping i within sentences simply because i want to. When writing any document for others to read, i of course apply the capital. However, i spend a lot of my life writing in one way or the other, and occasionally forget. I appreciate Word for not making me check each I. I like that it animates the change, so i know it remembered.
It's no more an attack than pointing out one's fly is open is an attack. Take it any way you wish, but if you want to be taken more seriously--that is, unless you are actually trying to draw attention to yourself more than your writing--use your pinky.

And in any case, I wasn't singling you out specifically (you'll note I didn't refer to your post or your handle), I was merely referring to a tendency I've seen a lot of lately. y do ppl do this? r they lazy?

Didn't mean to hurt your feelings.
     
Green Leaf  (op)
Forum Regular
Join Date: Jun 2002
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jan 26, 2005, 08:22 AM
 
For the record, i don't use grammar checker while i'm typing.

OPTIONS make everyone happy.
OPTIONS are lacking.
     
radii_22
Junior Member
Join Date: Feb 2003
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jan 26, 2005, 08:54 AM
 
Sometimes, I think that "options" isn't the most accurate desctiption of recent Apple software. That includes a little bit the iLife suit, where iPhoto users had to wait three years to have the most simple option regarding an application for managing a lot of photos : creating folders of albums. iTunes, the excellent jukebox ("the best digital jukebox in the world", "the best windows application ever" selon Apple's marketing), is lacking also of that feature, the capability of creating "folders of playlists".

Some of the most basic user interface aids, are extrangely missing in some applications, and we must wait months for that being solved : To enter a date in iCal... there is no graphic aid, a "minicalendar", one does to open another calendar, see the date in question, an "type-it". That is not "easy-to-use". "Simple is better" or "More is more" : what of those two axioms take in an application? I think that it got to be a good point between the two, doing the "more" more "simple".

I have not seen Pages, but it seems to be a good idea, but with not a lot of refinement. iCal and iPhoto are exemples of Apple applications that in their first versions were a little bit disappointing. I hope Apple could make the right fixes soon.

One question : Is the Pages text editing engine going to be the standard engine in the next version of Cocoa?

--->>> Karate is only for defense
     
Richard Edgar
Dedicated MacNNer
Join Date: Sep 2002
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jan 26, 2005, 08:55 AM
 
For the record, i don't use grammar checker while i'm typing
Or, apparently, the art of proof reading.
OPTIONS make everyone happy
Then why isn't everyone happily using emacs? That has got options aplenty.
     
TETENAL
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: FFM
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jan 26, 2005, 08:58 AM
 
Originally posted by Green Leaf:
OPTIONS are lacking.
Shouting doesn't make you right.
     
Cadaver
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: ~/
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jan 26, 2005, 09:20 AM
 
People.... I don't think The Steve ever implied that Pages would be a Word killer. In terms of features, I don't think there is any other word processor that can match it. The thing is, for average home users (of which many - if not most - of us here on MacNN are not), Word is overkill. Believe it or not, AppleWorks still makes many people happy. The word processor module in AppleWorks is about as basic (and out of date) as you can get, and yet its still enough for many. Pages simply adds to it. I like it.

     
JKT
Professional Poster
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: London, UK
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jan 26, 2005, 10:39 AM
 
What I would like to see available to Pages and all other Services aware apps - the equivalents of:

1. Nisus Thesaurus
2. Devontech's WordServices
3. Devontech's CalcService
4. OmniDictionary

IMO these should be shipped with the OS by default. I still don't understand why Apple doesn't push Services more in OS X.
     
cpac
Professional Poster
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: New York, NY
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jan 26, 2005, 10:44 AM
 
Originally posted by JKT:
What I would like to see available to Pages and all other Services aware apps - the equivalents of:

1. Nisus Thesaurus
2. Devontech's WordServices
3. Devontech's CalcService
4. OmniDictionary

IMO these should be shipped with the OS by default. I still don't understand why Apple doesn't push Services more in OS X.
I believe both OmniDictionary and Nisus Thesaurus offer services.

[edit]

actually they all are, so I guess I don't understand your point - if they are already available as services to all service-aware apps, what more is left to be done?
cpac
     
LaGow
Dedicated MacNNer
Join Date: Apr 2001
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jan 26, 2005, 11:18 AM
 
Originally posted by Richard Edgar:
Or, apparently, the art of proof reading.
Then why isn't everyone happily using emacs? That has got options aplenty.
Right, and it's much easier to use than vi.

Anyone who wants tons of options should stick with Word. However all those options are what contribute to its status as one of the premiere bloatware programs on the planet. With Pages, less is more. Bravo, Apple.
     
Randman
Posting Junkie
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: MacNN database error. Please refresh your browser.
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jan 26, 2005, 11:22 AM
 
Originally posted by m a d r a:
i never capitalise the first letters of my sentences as i think it makes a block of text aesthetically unpleasant to look at. also it is unnecessary, as the existence of the full stop indicates the previous sentence has ended, anyway.
If your name is ee milne, you can get away with it. Otherwise, you're either stupid or pretentious. Or both.

This is a computer-generated message and needs no signature.
     
LaGow
Dedicated MacNNer
Join Date: Apr 2001
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jan 26, 2005, 11:37 AM
 
I think you may be confusing A.A. Milne with E.E. Cummings. Cummings was notorious for the absence of capitalization in his poetry.
     
JKT
Professional Poster
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: London, UK
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jan 26, 2005, 11:45 AM
 
Originally posted by cpac:
I believe both OmniDictionary and Nisus Thesaurus offer services.

[edit]

actually they all are, so I guess I don't understand your point - if they are already available as services to all service-aware apps, what more is left to be done?
My point was that Apple should be including these or their own versions of these Services by default in the OS which they do not do at the moment. That way, some of the ranting that Green Leaf is doing would be addressed and not just for Pages, but for all Services aware apps. Apple should also be breaking arms to ensure that more if not all apps are made Services aware too. It's crazy that this incredibly powerful feature of OS X is not exploited more.
     
Randman
Posting Junkie
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: MacNN database error. Please refresh your browser.
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jan 26, 2005, 11:50 AM
 
Originally posted by LaGow:
I think you may be confusing A.A. Milne with E.E. Cummings. Cummings was notorious for the absence of capitalization in his poetry.
Doh! My bad. May I now have to listen to a kd lang album in shame.

This is a computer-generated message and needs no signature.
     
Millennium
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Nov 1999
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jan 26, 2005, 11:56 AM
 
Originally posted by JKT:
My point was that Apple should be including these or their own versions of these Services by default in the OS which they do not do at the moment.
Why? For most people they'd just be bloat. An OS should be lean and mean, including only features which will actually see use by the majority of users. The rest can and should be third-party. To complain about having to download something is nothing more than immature whining.
You are in Soviet Russia. It is dark. Grue is likely to be eaten by YOU!
     
Richard Edgar
Dedicated MacNNer
Join Date: Sep 2002
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jan 26, 2005, 01:01 PM
 
Anyone who wants tons of options should stick with Word. However all those options are what contribute to its status as one of the premiere bloatware programs on the planet
Personally, I rate emacs as the biggest bit of bloatware - and it was there long before Word. It is, as you say, rather more userfriendly than vi, but then, that isn't saying much. I use emacs because nothing else (apart from vi) is as ubiquitous. Personally, I find that emacs has so many options, I don't even know where to begin. Menus magically appear and disappear, and some have several levels of submenus.
     
Shades of Gray
Dedicated MacNNer
Join Date: Jun 2000
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jan 26, 2005, 01:17 PM
 
Originally posted by poocat:
I'm glad to see that Shades of Gray thinks it's laziness and zigzag thinks it's not so bad. First, i have grammar check off. I don't like it. Nor do i want one in Pages. But i would never be so bold as to claim that it's the reason people don't know how to write. Nor would i be so bold as to claim
Despite my efforts to communicate clearly, apparently I did not. Nowhere did I say anything about laziness. I mentioned my own habit of writing, and I noted the experiences I had in one situation. The point of my entire post was that the cause(s) of poor grammar/spelling etc. are more deeply entrenched in the US educational system than many realize, and these causes have roots that predate the personal computer.
Ignore the argumentative nature of this poster. He is old and can't engage in meaningful dialog
very long. Therefore, management asks that you at least humor him. Thanks.
     
LaGow
Dedicated MacNNer
Join Date: Apr 2001
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jan 26, 2005, 01:50 PM
 
Originally posted by Richard Edgar:
Personally, I rate emacs as the biggest bit of bloatware - and it was there long before Word. It is, as you say, rather more userfriendly than vi, but then, that isn't saying much. I use emacs because nothing else (apart from vi) is as ubiquitous. Personally, I find that emacs has so many options, I don't even know where to begin. Menus magically appear and disappear, and some have several levels of submenus.
Believe it or not, I actually prefer vi over emacs precisely because emacs, by its very option-laden nature, is so confusing to me. But when discussing graphical word processors that have planet-wide market share, laggy performance and oversized files, Word doth stand alone. That's why I appreciate Pages so much. Reduce, reduce, reduce!
     
Millennium
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Nov 1999
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jan 26, 2005, 02:24 PM
 
Originally posted by Richard Edgar:
Personally, I rate emacs as the biggest bit of bloatware - and it was there long before Word.
Indeed; emacs is the Word of text editors. I mean, what other text editor comes with interactive artificial-intelligence-driven psychoanalysis, and allows you to embed a Web browser in itself?[/B][/QUOTE]
Myself, I use vi on the command line, but as others have said, it's more just because the interface can get incredibly confusing with all the options out there. I used to use gvim in the GUI, but I've recently converted to TextWrangler.
You are in Soviet Russia. It is dark. Grue is likely to be eaten by YOU!
     
 
Thread Tools
 
Forum Links
Forum Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Top
Privacy Policy
All times are GMT -4. The time now is 07:18 PM.
All contents of these forums © 1995-2017 MacNN. All rights reserved.
Branding + Design: www.gesamtbild.com
vBulletin v.3.8.8 © 2000-2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.,