[kcmac]

After using Pages for the past several days there are plenty of things I like about it. But one problem that I have run into will now stop me from using it.

You cannot delete or reshuffle pages within a Page document.

I find this stunning to say the least. Especially given that the same team that designed Keynote (version 2 is simply incredible). As we all know, Keynote has a slide organizer where you can move slides to your hearts content. Or highlight a slide, hit Delete and poof, it is gone.

Not so with Pages.

Whom among us "mere mortals" as Steve put it in his Keynote has the ability to perfectly plan a document. Every page in exactly the right place. Every page being necessary in your first shot.

Nobody of course. At least, not me anyway.

As it stands for me, Keynote cost $79. That still seems like a bargain. Pages was thrown in for free and that is a good thing because right now, for me, that is all it is worth.

Hopefully, Apple will not wait until next January to fix this issue. Somehow, I think they will as this ain't a bug. It appears to be feature, or at least a missing one.

Sorry for the rant, but I really was looking forward to using Pages.

[ManOfSteal]

Link to another review documenting this issue (and a "workaround of sorts")...

[kcmac]

MOS,

Good to hear from you and thanks for the link. Sounds like my ranting is at least on base. And I have tried some of what the article says already. When using a template, I have found that the deleted page goes away only when its content and some of the preceding page are deleted.

I was planning to use Pages as a layout program and not as a word processor.

I'm just hoping for a quick fix. This seems like a big stumbling block to me.

[Krusty]

Hmmm .. interesting. I guess another possible workaround is to simply ignore any dead pages when printing (eg. if page 3 is a screw up, just consider it a "dead" page and skip it when printing ... select page 1, 2, 4, 5, etc for printing). If you are exporting to another format (highly likely since most people wont have Pages) perhaps edit out the errant pages once they are in the target format.

Still pretty annoying though. I'll be getting my copy tomorrow ... bummed that this problem exits.

[juanvaldes]

First I'll say, good idea. Submit that sucker for feedback.

Next I'll say, what word processor DOES let you do this? Unless there is some super secret feature in Word I have never used (or in the latest version) you cant' move page 5 to after page 3 in Word either.

[Love Calm Quiet]

'cept Pages isn't really a word processor. It's much more a page layout pgm... where at least being able to delete page would seem to be a no-brainer.

[kcmac]

I sent feedback. Hope this is fixed fairly swiftly.

Until then I am trying to learn the new goodies in Keynote 2. The iWork tour is incredible and you can look at each slide to study how the builds, timing and transitions were done. Plus, you can save and add a new theme to your collection.

Pages will be off my dock for awhile awaiting a fix.

[Hi I'm Ben]

Pages sucks. If it weren't made by apple. No one would use it.

[:dragonflypro:]

Boy, it is almost a glaring omission.

I really like Pages, but as the article linked above points out if could bother a lot of people.

T

[Krypton]

Originally posted by juanvaldes:
First I'll say, good idea. Submit that sucker for feedback.

Next I'll say, what word processor DOES let you do this? Unless there is some super secret feature in Word I have never used (or in the latest version) you cant' move page 5 to after page 3 in Word either.

Stone's Create will let you do this (i.e. remove any page, or reorder to your hearts content). It also provides lots of the DTP functionality Pages has but in a more logical and usable fashion.

[Love Calm Quiet]

From a Google on Stone's "Create" it seems its been around since neXt days. Reviews at version tracker sound pretty good... yet I've never heard mention of it.

The quick summaries make it sound like it's almost an alternative to Dreamweaver + InDesign ! for $149 ("formerly $695).

I'd love to see some indepth rev somewhere.

[Krusty]

Originally posted by Love Calm Quiet:

I'd love to see some indepth rev somewhere.

You can download a trial copy (I did a coupla years back). Nice work, all-in-all, but a little untraditional and I never used it enough to warrant a purchase. Check out the entire Stone Studio, there's a truck-load of off apps in this suite.

Even if it's not for you, make sure to get a copy of the (free) GiFfun -- very cool little tool for quickly making your own animated gifs. Now THAT I have used quite a bit

[genevish]

It's Apples first release. Give them some time and I'm sure it will improve, just like with everything they do. Remember Mac OS X 10.0?...

[Millennium]

Originally posted by ManOfSteal:
Link to another review documenting this issue (and a "workaround of sorts")...

That review has two issues, and I'm not entirely sure I agree with either one.

As for the export problems, this is to be expected when the formats being exported to are incapable of the sorts of layour tricks that Pages does. It's Just Not Possible to re-create these kinds of layouts in Word, RTF, or HTML, nor really should it be: Word serves a very different purpose, as do these file formats. Apple exports as much as it can, but given the limitations of these formats it only goes so far. Pages is not a word processor, albeit not the most traditional of word processors. If it were bound by the limitations of Word, there would be no reason to go with it.

However, neither is Pages a traditional page-layout program. It gives you more control over page layout than any word processor before (except possible AppleWorks, but it was much harder to do this in AW), but it still assumes that your documents are more or less linear, and cover one topis at a time. Given this, the concept of deleting pages makes little sense, because you would be deleting huge chunks of text along with it.

[BuonRotto]

If you really want a good page layout app and not a word processor that's done in Cocoa with this kind of UI then there are apps like Create and MLayout out there with features like what you're looking for. Pages doesn't have even half the features of those apps, and they have the same UI concepts in action.

[leperkuhn]

Originally posted by Hi I'm Ben:
Pages sucks. If it weren't made by apple. No one would use it.

I've been looking for a word alternative for a while. Pages rocks.

[leperkuhn]

Originally posted by ManOfSteal:
Link to another review documenting this issue (and a "workaround of sorts")...

Kind of rough expecting Pages to compete with both Word and Indesign and Quark on features, isn't it? For a $79 package that includes 2 apps?

[Spirit_VW]

Originally posted by Hi I'm Ben:
Pages sucks. If it weren't made by apple. No one would use it.

I disagree so strongly with that it's not even funny. I love Pages and it does exactly what I need it to do.

[lookmark]

Originally posted by Millennium:
However, neither is Pages a traditional page-layout program. It gives you more control over page layout than any word processor before (except possible AppleWorks, but it was much harder to do this in AW), but it still assumes that your documents are more or less linear, and cover one topis at a time. Given this, the concept of deleting pages makes little sense, because you would be deleting huge chunks of text along with it.

Pages is an interesting breed for sure, but Pages *can* be used a rather surprisingly powerful page-layout, or lite DTP, program, and includes the tools for it. For example, you can place your text in text boxes if you wish, instead of in a linear WP style. This is what makes the omission of the necessary page deletion + moving tools so glaring.

If you're using Pages for WP, it's not an issue. If you'd like to use it for anything more than the most basic of DTP tasks, though.... there's an odd gap.

[kcmac]

Okay. First I want to apologize for my outburst last night. It is not my usual way of doing things. Should have taken a couple of deep breaths and considered not posting.

The template thing frustrates me to no end. But, I will not throw Pages off of my dock.

I have been using Pages as a Word processor during this time and saving (exporting) to Word. It is dead on for what I do.

The inspector makes what looks to be a simple app very powerful.

So instead of titling this thread the way I did, I should have started a thread more specific to an issue with Templates and deleting of pages within Pages.

I hope this forum can accept my apology. I will be a little more responsible in the future.

[cpac]

Originally posted by kcmac:
Should have taken a couple of deep breaths and considered not posting.

no worries - we've all been there.

[leperkuhn]

Originally posted by cpac:
no worries - we've all been there.

This sounds lame, but once i wrote into apple when i was wasted.. it was pretty bad feedback. No clue what I wrote about, and they probably threw it away.

Point of the story: I'm an idiot.

[lavar78]

Originally posted by kcmac:
Okay. First I want to apologize for my outburst last night. It is not my usual way of doing things. Should have taken a couple of deep breaths and considered not posting.

So instead of titling this thread the way I did, I should have started a thread more specific to an issue with Templates and deleting of pages within Pages.

I hope this forum can accept my apology. I will be a little more responsible in the future.

Are you kidding? Your first post was articulate and reasonable enough that I wouldn't even call it a rant. Even if it were, your last post already shows that you're one of the most responsible and sensible posters we have. Give yourself a break!

[Hi I'm Ben]

I want to like pages. I do. It's pretty and such. But it's lacking so many features. The ONLY benefit it has to me over word is. It runs nicer.

I'm sure pages will have the iPhoto and Mac OS X 10.0 effect on me. I'll like it after a few updates or two.

[Proudest Monkey]

After having pages for 3 days and completing no real work on it i have been able to form a review of it based on my testing out.

I agree with most of what was said above, mostly based on the page-layout comments. I will not be using it for that though.

I looked at is as a replacement for Word. Word has too many features but i�ve become so accustomed to using it and knowing where everything can be found in the interface its hard not to use it. Word on my old iMac (g3-600mhz ... not too fast) is unbearably slow. typing can hardly keep up and i have never understood why i cannot drag the toolbars all the way out. i would love for the toolbar to reach all the way across the screen and show everything, like double-spacing, etc.

Word works really well in Windows and older PC�s (for the most part, general performance anyways) but word performs horribly on an older mac.

That being said ... i can type much faster in Pages than Word on my old iMac. Pages interface will take some getting used to though. I cannot customize the toolbar as much as i would like to. I want single and double space options as well as text alignment options in the toolbar - not through several menus.

It is only v1.0 ... so far so good and its still half the price of the office student edition (even though its lacking a spreadsheet programs, someday we�ll get it. maybe it�ll be called Formula, Cells, who knows).

cheers!

[discotronic]

Originally posted by Proudest Monkey:
After having pages for 3 days and completing no real work on it i have been able to form a review of it based on my testing out.

I agree with most of what was said above, mostly based on the page-layout comments. I will not be using it for that though.

I looked at is as a replacement for Word. Word has too many features but i�ve become so accustomed to using it and knowing where everything can be found in the interface its hard not to use it. Word on my old iMac (g3-600mhz ... not too fast) is unbearably slow. typing can hardly keep up and i have never understood why i cannot drag the toolbars all the way out. i would love for the toolbar to reach all the way across the screen and show everything, like double-spacing, etc.

Word works really well in Windows and older PC�s (for the most part, general performance anyways) but word performs horribly on an older mac.

That being said ... i can type much faster in Pages than Word on my old iMac. Pages interface will take some getting used to though. I cannot customize the toolbar as much as i would like to. I want single and double space options as well as text alignment options in the toolbar - not through several menus.

It is only v1.0 ... so far so good and its still half the price of the office student edition (even though its lacking a spreadsheet programs, someday we�ll get it. maybe it�ll be called Formula, Cells, who knows).

cheers!

I installed iWork on my Blueberry iBook 300MHz. It is faster than Word when doing non-intensive work. I didn't notice any lag when typing. I tried a few of the templates but it really taxed the machine. Not as bad as Word does but still usable. The min requirements say 500MHz or better but if a person can handle OSX on that model iBook then Pages shouldn't be an issue.

[kcmac]

Now that I have had a little more time to think about this, it seems this issue is somewhere between a bug and a missing feature.

The trick is that if you are using a template that is a self contained page or a word document page that has page break inserts, you could have a delete page feature or a slide browser.

However when you have a page that isn't self contained and flows into the next page, removing a page could destroy or delete something you would not want to delete.

Seems to me Apple may be wrestling with how to do this so that it is not confusing.

In any case, it is a very frustrating thing at the moment.

I have had a little more luck with using the Format menu>Advanced and selecting make master objects selectable and further selecting disable placeholder text. You have to use the backspace key alot and move your cursor all over the blank page but eventually you can remove it. Lots of work. Or is that iWork?

[Big Mac]

Did anyone think Pages would be feature complete in its first incarnation? Anyone at all? Most software simply is not fully baked at its 1.0 release. Give it a year and Pages should be a much more capable workhorse.

[juanvaldes]

I dont think anyone expect it (or will admit themselves such a fool) but obviously from reading peoples impressions here the past week (and having my own from using Pages) that many seem to expect their pet feature or two. Spread that over a few hundred users and I think you can start to see a reason for all the bitching about missing feature x, y and z.

[threestain]

I think the main problems at the moment are due to the difference between Pages and a normal WP. Normal word processors are well known to most. Like CSS editing though, Pages takes a little time to sort out how to use it, but once you have, by god how much better is it. It's really useful, and takes a reasonably small amount of resources used.

And this is just using it as a very basic WP at the moment - I had just fallen in love with Nisus Writer Express, but now it seems as if Pages is my new 'it' program. And it has lots of lovely features all of which are easier to use than either InDesign or Quark. I like it. But then I love new things!

[tooki]

Anyone who complains that Pages doesn't let you reshuffle pages seems to be missing the point that, like it or not, it is a word processor, not a desktop publishing program. Yes, it's a somewhat unusual word processor, but it is one. Its overall model isn't blank-page-with-text-frames like a DTP app, but rather a continuous text flow. That's a word processor. (Pages is like the word processing component of AppleWorks; a DTP program is like the draw component of AppleWorks. Two very different models that can both be used to ultimately produce the same final product.)

If you want to delete a page in Pages, you can just delete its content, and the rest of the document will scoot up, just as deleting a page's worth of text in Word will make everything else move up.

tooki

[Ilja]

Seems that any time somebody gives some valid criticism on missing features, people justify it by saying "it is a word processor, not a desktop publishing program". Pages is still very immature and lacks alot of needed features whether it is a word processor or a desktop publishing program. I am writing a paper in the app right now, but I stumble on too much limitations that I'll probably finish it in Word.

[Love Calm Quiet]

Thank you, Tooki...
Since I haven't test-driven the software, I really needed that clarification.

Yet from people's reactions, it does seem to have a lot of DTP-like qualities. Which is to say that it may really be almost a new category of software.

I'm glad Apple is experimenting with it... especially since it's essentially coming *free* to those who are buying iWork just to get Keynote2.

[kcmac]

Originally posted by tooki:
Anyone who complains that Pages doesn't let you reshuffle pages seems to be missing the point that, like it or not, it is a word processor, not a desktop publishing program. Yes, it's a somewhat unusual word processor, but it is one. Its overall model isn't blank-page-with-text-frames like a DTP app, but rather a continuous text flow. That's a word processor. (Pages is like the word processing component of AppleWorks; a DTP program is like the draw component of AppleWorks. Two very different models that can both be used to ultimately produce the same final product.)

If you want to delete a page in Pages, you can just delete its content, and the rest of the document will scoot up, just as deleting a page's worth of text in Word will make everything else move up.

tooki

So you are using it and have no problems deleting pages?

I want your secrets oh wise one. (Seriously. I will try anything at this point.)

Try this. Open the Education Newsletter. Add two new pages. Now start on page three and start clicking on placeholder text and pictures and hitting the delete button. When you have deleted them all tell me what to do next. The page is still there.

If you place your cursor on page 3 and start hitting delete it will keep going until it goes onto the second page. Still the third page will not delete.

Now how is that like any word processor? You have to go to the Menu bar and click a few entries and then go back and delete some more. Maybe then you can get it to delete.

Of course, if you use Pages like a regular word processor, you can delete like usual and it will delete the page the same way as always. At least most of the time. I have had trouble with these as well in a few cases.

Anyway....

I have been creating new templates all day for a wide variety of reports and letters that we do. Report Covers, Body, etc.

Once you get the hang of how to layer graphics and text, Pages is fantastic. When you send something clear to the back it is tricky getting it back to make it editable but it works.

Putting Create off to the side for awhile. Templates are insanely easy.

Since Pages focuses so much on Styles, it has me looking at them now more when I open Word. There is simply no comparison. Pages kills Word in the styles arena. Also true for templates.

Pages lets you remove, rename, create, etc styles on the fly in the style drawer very easily. You pare down your styles drawer so that only styles being used are listed in the drawer. And because you can easily name them anything you like, it makes it easy to know what that "Heading 5" is because you can make it Main Page Heading or anything you want. (And these new names show up in Word documents style drawer as well.) Very intuitive. Looked at Word for awhile and ran.

Pages can be used very easily as a Word Processor. The inspector lets you do just about anything you want very quickly. Straight typing, setting margins, lists, tables, etc.

Pages is also a Page Layout program much like Create. You can insert multiple layers of text, graphics, photos, etc. Fill with colors and add shapes.

The more I use it the more I am amazed that Apple has done something which to me seems very complex by combining both types of applications and made it this easy to use in version one.

Sure I have been going on about this page deletion thing. But the issue is not that it is a Word processor or a page layout app. The issue is how does Apple add a page browser that can remove a page but won't remove things that flow into another page. That has got to be a really hard thing to do while not totally confusing or pissing off the user.

Maybe the page browser could only be activated on pages that are self contained. If the page that your cursor is sitting on has flowing text or graphics, maybe the browser would not be able to be activated for that page. I don't have the solution certainly but I do know after using Pages pretty faithfully now that this needs to become a new feature in a hurry

[kcmac]

Oops.

[kcmac]

Double oops. Must be trying to make my reply count go up!

[Silky Voice of The Gorn]

I love Pages, but I have one issue with the style sheets, and it's a big one. There's no way to have linked styles (as far as I can tell). WTF is up with that? Styles that aren't linked are near useless, imo.

[Krusty]

Hey kcmac. I just tried something that may help. I turned on "show invisibles" when trying to delete a page. I found several formatting characters still on the page after having deleted all visible items. After deleting these characters too .... *poof* ... page was gone -- just like "normal" word processor.

**note: I had to backspace 1 character onto the preceding page for it to disappear. Also, I just tried it again by doing "select all" on the current page (make sure everything highlights or you may only be selecting all of one section). The single backspace stroke onto the preceding page caused it to disappear too. Looks like it DOES work like a normal word processor if you just make sure you get every last character off the page.

[kcmac]

Thanks Krusty.

Interestingly enough, when doing what you have discovered, you end up deleting a column break or a section break from the preceding page. This is what appears to then delete the page. If you insert the column or section break back to end of the page after the page deletion, the blank page is readded.

Just started to use the invisibles thing and I really like it. I have now found that when I open a Word document in Pages and show invisibles, I can very quickly see where some of the formatting issues are that can then quickly be fixed. Likewise, when I use show invisibles, I can be more sure that my formatting is good for exporting (saving to) Word.

I think I will make this my default way of using Pages. Even the invisibles are nicer looking than in Word.

[kcmac]

Originally posted by Silky Voice of The Gorn:
I love Pages, but I have one issue with the style sheets, and it's a big one. There's no way to have linked styles (as far as I can tell). WTF is up with that? Styles that aren't linked are near useless, imo.

I don't quite get what you mean here.

I like how styles work in Pages. I especially like that when you place your cursor on some text, the style is highlighted in the styles drawer. In Word, you have to look at the formatting box and then read what style is associated with it. Clicking on the drop down triangle for the highlighted style allows you to customize, create, rename or delete that style.

Would be interesting to know how linked styles would be used.

[Silky Voice of The Gorn]

Originally posted by kcmac:
I don't quite get what you mean here.

I like how styles work in Pages. I especially like that when you place your cursor on some text, the style is highlighted in the styles drawer. In Word, you have to look at the formatting box and then read what style is associated with it. Clicking on the drop down triangle for the highlighted style allows you to customize, create, rename or delete that style.

Would be interesting to know how linked styles would be used.

My terminology is wrong, perhaps. I'm talking about the "based-on" function you find in Word, Quark or InDesign.

Say you set "Normal" to Times 12pt. You then set your Subhead to be linked, or based-on, Normal, but make it bold. So Subhead is now Times 12pt Bold. Now, if you change Normal to Helvetica, Subhead will automatically become Helvetica 12pt bold. Properly set-up, you have your styles completely linked, so one change in the base style cascades and updates them all. It's a great feature.

[kcmac]

I see.

I know in Word, if you set your default font it will instantly change all of the headings, etc. in your style palette to that font. That is certainly not good because this would mean you would have to use only that font in your document which you may not want to do.

By doing what you suggest, you could possibly highlight several items in the styles drawer and then link them together as the same font.

That would be a good feature.

[Silky Voice of The Gorn]

Originally posted by kcmac:
I see.
By doing what you suggest, you could possibly highlight several items in the styles drawer and then link them together as the same font.

I'm sure a simple graphical "linking" system could be used to make it easy; perhaps dragging the styles into different order, and clicking a link icon, much like linked layers in Photoshop. Why styles don't have their own Inspector tab is beyond me, I hate the drawer.

[Tsilou B.]

Originally posted by Silky Voice of The Gorn:
My terminology is wrong, perhaps. I'm talking about the "based-on" function you find in Word, Quark or InDesign.

AppleWorks has this feature, too. I don't have Pages yet - but I cannot understand how they can possibly forget this feature. So if you write a text with footnotes and you want to change the font from Helvetica to Times, you have to change every single style you have used in the document including footnote numbers, footnote text etc.? I think that's even more annoying than the missing "delete page" feature.

[barney ntd]

I've been thinking about this "delete page" problem, and I found a concrete example. Create a new document in the "Travel Journal" style. This style has two possible title pages, called "Title Page with Photos Top" and "Title Page with Photos Side". When you create a new document it uses "Top" for the first page, but what if you prefer "Side"? You can create a second page using "Side", but if you delete all the items on the first page, you don't get the "Side" page as first. The text moves up, but the layout & photos vanish. If you type enough text to force a second page to appear, there are your missing photos!

What is going on is that Pages has two streams which form your document. The WP stream includes the main body of text and all "Moves with Text" objects. The DTP stream includes the sequence of pages and all "Fixed on Page" objects. The program puts them together by formatting the text into the pages.

The problem is that you can edit the WP stream in the usual way, and you can edit each page of the DTP stream by adding or removing objects, but you cannot edit the DTP stream itself, except by adding new pages from the style. The question is, can the developers provide a way to edit the DTP stream which makes intuitive sense to those who haven't thought this hard about how the program works?

Barney.

[kcmac]

Originally posted by Tsilou B.:
AppleWorks has this feature, too. I don't have Pages yet - but I cannot understand how they can possibly forget this feature. So if you write a text with footnotes and you want to change the font from Helvetica to Times, you have to change every single style you have used in the document including footnote numbers, footnote text etc.? I think that's even more annoying than the missing "delete page" feature.

Not sure if I totally understand the question but I'll answer it this way.

Let's say you want to change all of the body text from Helvetica to Times. You would click on the triangle drop down widget in the styles drawer next to the Body Style. Then you would select "Select all uses of heading". This will highlight all of the body text. Then select Times in the font palette and it's all changed. Lastly, then you would Select from the triangle widget next to the Body Style "Redefine Style from Selection". This will change the default of the Body Style to Times for the remainder of the document.

You would need to do this for each style if you wanted Times to be the default after you started with Helvetica.

This may seem tedious if all of your text, headings, etc are in the same font style. It does have a positive. If you have more than one font style in your font drawer, changing to Helvetica as your new default now would not change them all to Times when you would still like to keep the other font styles as well.

It would be a handy feature if you could highlight more than one style at a time so you could change the ones you want at one time. Or the linking feature Silky is talking about.

Multiple selection in the styles drawer would be a nice and effective feature.

Sending feedback to Apple.

[Silky Voice of The Gorn]

Originally posted by Tsilou B.:
So if you write a text with footnotes and you want to change the font from Helvetica to Times, you have to change every single style you have used in the document including footnote numbers, footnote text etc.? I think that's even more annoying than the missing "delete page" feature. [/B]

Yes, you have to change every style instance by hand, as there's no "based-on"mechanism. And I agree its more annoying (though this delete page thing never even occured to me..it's a friggin WORD PROCESSOR people. Go use inDesign if you want true page layout)

[kcmac]

If you do a Select all, you can change the style (font) of every style type shown in your drawer this is actively being used or selected in one click.

If you then want to make this the default font for the document or those styles, you would then need to click on each style (the triangle widgets will now be red because changes have been made) and either choose "redefine style from selection" to make it permanent for the remainder of your work or select "revert to original style" to go back to what you had originally for the style.

Also when highlighting text or graphics on a Page, you need to highlight from the bottom to the top for it to show the highlighting.

And I do disagree. It is not a word processor. Or a page layout program. It is both. We just have to let it be that. I keep finding myself trying to use it like one or the other and sometimes get cranky.

Looking into it more and learning how it works, it is a lot more powerful than I originally hoped for. Alot of things are not automatic. You have to be a little more in the manual operation mode. Lists are a good example of this.

However, it is all of the automatic stuff that drives me crazy in Word. It always thinks it knows what I am trying to do. Pages does not do this. It lets you have more control while letting you do pretty much anything you want.

BTW. I have PM'd the mods to ask if this thread can be titled differently. As I said before, I named it in haste, in a cranky moment and I don't think it reflects what I meant or what is being talked about.

[ManOfSteal]

Pages v1.0.1

This update resolves the inability to delete complete pages supposedly...

[kcmac]

Well, kinda sorta.

If you made a page by Insert>Pages> Text Page then you can click on that page and go the Edit menu and select Delete and the "free standing" page will disappear. If you didn't make your page like that, it won't work.

As I posted earlier in this thread, (which I still regret naming) I always show invisibles when working with Pages. Makes it easy to see what you need to delete.

I am still enjoying using Pages and it is good to see that they came out so quickly with an update. Hopefully, that will be the trend.