Welcome to the MacNN Forums.

Patcarla · May 2, 2003, 12:55 PM

Check this out!!
On Macbidouille .
If you have problems for translation let me know

bradoesch · May 2, 2003, 01:05 PM

I sure hope it's true!

villalobos · May 2, 2003, 01:06 PM

Originally posted by Patcarla:
Check this out!!
On Macbidouille .
If you have problems for translation let me know

They also pretend that Apple Employees are receiving heavy discounts (30%) on the actual Power Mac line, and that this signifies that is is gonna be end-of-lifed pretty soon. Anybody know about this practice, and can confirm or infirm it.

villa

Patcarla · May 2, 2003, 01:35 PM

Originally posted by villalobos:
They also pretend that Apple Employees are receiving heavy discounts (30%) on the actual Power Mac line, and that this signifies that is is gonna be end-of-lifed pretty soon. Anybody know about this practice, and can confirm or infirm it.

villa

We'll find out very soon...

MindFad · May 2, 2003, 02:36 PM

I'll believe it when I order it.

Sarc · May 2, 2003, 03:25 PM

I sure have high hopes for the 970 and I just hope these rumors are true ... anyway, why 1.4 ? wasn't it sopposed to be released @ 1.8 and scale to 2.3 ?

The Placid Casual · May 2, 2003, 04:48 PM

I suspect they will introduce a slight bump in speed only to begin with on the lowest machine, so as not to piss off recent purchasers...

1.4 single.
1.6 dual.
1.8 dual.

I mean a 1.4 Ghz 970 will kill a 1.4 G4...

What does inteerst me is the fact that they may introduce a 64Bit chip without a 64 Bit OS/apps...

I assumed we would see 10.3 and the 970 debut together for the double whammy effect... Although I guess, dual machines shipped with OS 9 initially that couldn't take advantage of them so nothing is impossibe...

As for the chips, I recon we may see speed bumps pretty often, as for once we have some head room to work with. I welcome the day we are no longer constrained by Moto...

Peace,

Marc

gizzard · May 2, 2003, 06:51 PM

Originally posted by villalobos:
They also pretend that Apple Employees are receiving heavy discounts (30%) on the actual Power Mac line, and that this signifies that is is gonna be end-of-lifed pretty soon. Anybody know about this practice, and can confirm or infirm it.

It's called Quarterly Promomtion (or QPromo) for short. Every quarter, Apple choose certain products and places them at a discount (15-25%) for Apple employees. Of course, they are free to tell family and friends about it. Around Christmas, everything is on QPromo. This happens _every_ quarter and doesn't signify _anything_.

climber · May 2, 2003, 07:12 PM

Don't you guys know that everytime someone predicts the premire of the G5 or now the 970 Stevie boy pushes the schedule back a week.

We would see it a lot faster if you guys would start saying it will never come.

reactor · May 2, 2003, 07:21 PM

Originally posted by climber:
Don't you guys know that everytime someone predicts the premire of the G5 or now the 970 Stevie boy pushes the schedule back a week.

We would see it a lot faster if you guys would start saying it will never come.

They also claim to have the benchmarks for the machine: "......... unless APPLE is opposed to it, we will reveal the benchmarks on the machine at the latest on May 15".

So perhaps we'll know soon enough if it's true.

coolmac · May 2, 2003, 07:23 PM

O.K, may the leaked photos of the new 970 Powermac cases begin.

climber · May 2, 2003, 07:26 PM

No..... Don't do it, that will cost us another month at least.

3.1416 · May 2, 2003, 09:07 PM

Originally posted by Marc2211:
Although I guess, dual machines shipped with OS 9 initially that couldn't take advantage of them so nothing is impossibe...

Right, and a 970 running 32-bit Jaguar is nowhere near as crippled a a dual G4 running OS 9. The primary benefit of the 970 is speed, and it does just as well with 32-bit code as 64-bit.

Colonel_Panic · May 2, 2003, 11:40 PM

That and with a 900MHz bus we can really see what altivec is capable of. The main thing that keeps the g4 running as fast as P4`s with almost 2 times the specs is altivec.

Its a real shame that MOT dopped the ball on the G4 it was a great chip and it could have been so much more than what it was.

Our last hope is the 970, if that doesnt work out we may only know the Apple of today as a memory.

I`m sure Apple has a backup plan for most cases though, They are by far one of the best software companies out there and their doom has been predicted over and over. If they do not have a backup plan - god help them.

Shaktai · May 3, 2003, 05:24 AM

Macbidouille posted a correction (google translation). It sounds a little more reasonable.

A mistake in interpretation slipped into the news of yesterday.

The PPC 970 will be shown with the developers with the WWDC and the public the following semane (week). It will be on sale immediately
But unquestionable APPLE of its planetary success will start to make large stocks and to distribute them on the plan�tre as of the end May.

proux · May 3, 2003, 11:52 AM

They are amking a precision: Apple will ramp volume production at the end of May, will show the products at WWCD to developpers and the following week to the public with availability right after that. Whao

Only bemol, looks like we might get "only" 1.4 Ghz single (still twice as fast as 1.42 G4 though), maybe duals...

Leonis · May 3, 2003, 02:47 PM

Hm.....seems like we are going to see either

1.4GHz SINGLE
1.6GHz SINGLE
1.8GHz DUAL

--or--

1.4GHz SINGLE
1.6GHz DUAL
1.8GHz DUAL

My concern is....is 1.8 "enough" to compete or not.....

MindFad · May 3, 2003, 02:54 PM

Originally posted by Leonis:
Hm.....seems like we are going to see either

1.4GHz SINGLE
1.6GHz SINGLE
1.8GHz DUAL

--or--

1.4GHz SINGLE
1.6GHz DUAL
1.8GHz DUAL

My concern is....is 1.8 "enough" to compete or not.....

In dual form, absolutely.

ae86_16v · May 3, 2003, 05:43 PM

Originally posted by proux:

Only bemol, looks like we might get "only" 1.4 Ghz single (still twice as fast as 1.42 G4 though), maybe duals...

How do you know it is twice as fast as the G4?

proux · May 3, 2003, 06:45 PM

The specs were on this forum a while ago, using processor benchmarks (int and fp).

The Placid Casual · May 3, 2003, 07:04 PM

ae86_16v, the Spec and FP results for the 970 (@ 1.8 Ghz I think) which IBM released a while back were a conservative 1000+ on non-opitmised pre-production ships... They noted this would only improve when the chip entered production...

From memory I'm pretty sure the speediest G4 at the time clocked about 200...

Although I think the thing that will make the radical difference is the 900Mhz Bus... Combined with the proposed 'Super Altivec' (Altivec Xtreme

) and when 64 Bit apps hit the streets, I think we are going to be blown away.

Peace,

Marc

Leonis · May 3, 2003, 07:33 PM

I think the AltiVec unit in the 970 is just the same as the G4's....but on the much faster bus we should see a huge boost in AV performance

The Placid Casual · 08:00 PM

Originally posted by Leonis:
I think the AltiVec unit in the 970 is just the same as the G4's....but on the much faster bus we should see a huge boost in AV performance

I'm sure I heard somewhere talk of an 'improved' Altivec unit on the 970... May have been in a thread over at AI or ARS... nowhere official anyway so I guess it means nothing! (But what better time to beef up AV anyway if it going to be a big part of Apples future?)

I suppose only time will tell

power142 · May 3, 2003, 10:49 PM

Originally posted by Marc2211:
I'm sure I heard somewhere talk of an 'improved' Altivec unit on the 970... May have been in a thread over at AI or ARS... nowhere official anyway so I guess it means nothing! (But what better time to beef up AV anyway if it going to be a big part of Apples future?)

I suppose only time will tell

I heard that the 970 will have dual AltiVec units.... this made sense once I was reminded that the 970 is available in *dual core* configurations....

cowerd · May 4, 2003, 12:37 AM

I heard that the 970 will have dual AltiVec units.... this made sense once I was reminded that the 970 is available in *dual core* configurations....

Congratulations. Two pieces of wrong info -- and in so few words no less.

The vector permute unit is counted as a separate unit as it can process instructions in parallel with the vector math registers. The vector unit in the 970 is essentially the same as the vector units in the later G4s (anything later than a 7410).

There are no dual-core 970 mentioned anywhere in IBM current literature, or at any IBM tech presentations.

awcopus · May 4, 2003, 01:51 AM

Anyone here run a massive MPEG-2 compression lately? If Apple releases these machines in time for the release of DVD Studio Pro 2, I will be quite the happy camper.

So far this has been a terrific year for Apple. The desktop is THE missing piece in their product matrix. Everything else is solid and exciting and getting better all the time.

beb · May 4, 2003, 02:09 AM

1.8Ghz high end?

I kinda wonder at the macbid speed specs because a friend of mine who works for big blue says the average yield/speed/whatever of the 970 is now 2ghz.

um... I hate to start rumors so just ignore this. I didn't think to ask him anything further because I knew 970 macs were coming and I figured that 2Ghz sounded pretty reasonable.

Shaktai · May 4, 2003, 02:48 AM

Originally posted by beb:
1.8Ghz high end?

I kinda wonder at the macbid speed specs because a friend of mine who works for big blue says the average yield/speed/whatever of the 970 is now 2ghz.

um... I hate to start rumors so just ignore this. I didn't think to ask him anything further because I knew 970 macs were coming and I figured that 2Ghz sounded pretty reasonable.

I have heard they have been getting a higher then expected yield above 2.0 ghz. The key word though is expected. That doesn't mean the yield is enough to meet production demand or that the power consumption or heat would be satisfactory. But who knows until it happens.

Macbidouille seems to be working overtime.

APPLE is not the only one concerned about Motorola' S production of PPC. Cisco, who develops and sells gateways based one G4 and 85xx processors, is also angry about the situation. Motorola is not whitebait to produce the 8560 (second generation of G5). Some even think that the production of these
chips will Be abandoned.

The relationship between APPLE and Motorola is so bad that every call Steve Jobs makes to Motorola ends up in A violate quarel. Therefore Steve prefers to cease the deal with Motorola during 2004' S first trimester and work with IBM.

IBM engineers are going to work hardware in order to cuts the PPC 970 At 90nm ready for the end of this year in East Fishkill' S laboratories. These processors will eventually replaces PowerBooks' G4s.
PS: Tomorrow, you will be entitled to other large rumours on the PPC 970 and can be even Roadmap of the exits of machines for the 12 next months. We will also speak to you about Xstations and Xserve: Company Edition.

Sitting on the edge along with everyone else, hoping for the best and prepared for the worst.

Superchicken · May 4, 2003, 03:46 AM

if they releaes these I'm gona get a low end iBook 800 and keep saving until I can afford a 970 tower... druel...

Eug · May 4, 2003, 04:32 AM

I dunno, but it seems to me that they are full of it.

It sounds like the same conjecture everyone else has been spouting in the last few months.

beb · May 4, 2003, 02:00 PM

I said it before and I'll say it again, I want an 18" LCD iMac with a 1.4 or 1.6ghz 970 processor in it's half-moon butt.

Shaktai · May 4, 2003, 02:29 PM

Originally posted by Eug:
I dunno, but it seems to me that they are full of it.

It sounds like the same conjecture everyone else has been spouting in the last few months.

Conjecture? Yes, but not beyond the possibility of reality with the information that "is known". Something is coming, and probably by WWDC or very shortly after.

aderium · May 4, 2003, 04:41 PM

So whaen are we going to see these new chips in apple machines .. next year?

you_are_right · May 4, 2003, 05:17 PM

Originally posted by aderium:
So whaen are we going to see these new chips in apple machines .. next year?

I guess to see the new pm with 970 chips later this summer could really happen.

IBM seems to be able to produce the chips and the current G4 pm line is maxed out (already overclocked).

And the last revisions did not show to much of a redesign or overhaul .....

And they need upgrades every half year .... to keep the ball rolling....

hmurchison2001 · May 4, 2003, 05:23 PM

IBM seems to be able to produce the chips and the current G4 pm line is maxed out (already overclocked).

That's false. The G4's are not overclocked. Have someone remove the Heatsink and check the chip markings if you doubt this.

The Placid Casual · May 4, 2003, 05:57 PM

Originally posted by hmurchison2001:
That's false. The G4's are not overclocked. Have someone remove the Heatsink and check the chip markings if you doubt this.

They are not overclocked... but it is amazing they have even got the speeds they have with the chip still being on the 0.18nm process!

It really must be as far as it can be developed without going to 0.13...

theory · May 4, 2003, 08:33 PM

It is way too optimistic to expect 970's in June, Early 2004 sounds
more likely. I remember IBM had just released 1GHZ G3 when apple releassed the 700Mhz G3 iMacs. If Apple was going to always put the fastest chips as they come out they would have done it then when they
really needed them.

Eug · May 4, 2003, 09:18 PM

Originally posted by Shaktai:
Conjecture? Yes, but not beyond the possibility of reality with the information that "is known". Something is coming, and probably by WWDC or very shortly after.

So in other words, they know nothing more than we do.

reactor · May 4, 2003, 10:14 PM

Originally posted by theory:
It is way too optimistic to expect 970's in June, Early 2004 sounds
more likely.

When IBM introduced the POWER4 processor's derivative, the PPC970, late 2002, estimations were that samples would be available in the 2nd quarter of 2003 and full scale production in the 2nd half of 2003.

If IBM integrated the VMX-unit and its instruction-set at the end of februari and were shortly after ready for sampling before itself-imposed schedule? Could we see them in Apple machines by june? And why not?

(And, I don't think Apple would have bought some serious software (Shake, and announced it will be completely out of devellopment for non-Apple OS-es) if they hadn't been testing some next generation PPC (970, but without the VMX on-board) and realised that this processor was capable of some fancy computation. (Or perhaps did they just 'hope' for the next proseccor to be awsome speedy? 'Cause Shake needs more than today's DP 1.42Gig G4's, and don't say it doesn't, because it does!))

DrBoar · May 5, 2003, 07:33 AM

t's only a rumor, but before finding some evidences, it might let you dream
a bit.

June-July 2003: PPC 970 PowerMac and Xserve, PowerBooks with G4 @ 1.25 GHz.
August-September 2003: iMacs with 1.25 and 1.4GHz G4 processors.
November 2003: iBook still equiped with G3 processors, but Apple will now use the Gobi version of the processor at 1 and 1.2 GHz.
January-February 2004: Second generation of PPC 970, running at 2.5 GHz (maybe more). They will be used in PowerMacs and Xserves. iMacs will run for the first time with PPC970 at 1.4 and 1.6 GHz.
March 2004 (less sure): First presentation of the PPC980, mobile version of the PPC970, probably used to replace PowerBook's G4.

Two new products are being developed by Apple :
- The Xstation is a highly professional super computer with up to 64 processors (mini. 4). It will be equiped with the latest GPU and support a high quantity of memory. Price between 10000 and 75000$ (maybe more).The Xstation will aim people using some big apps as Maya and other CAD and high resolution video softwares.
- The Xserve Enterprise Edition (2 rackable units) will run with a Power 5 and will support a very large data flow.

I remember when the B&W G3 came out. Not only did the lowend B&W G3/300 beat the previous top end tower beige G3/333 in speed. It also had better design, faster bus way faster graphical card and several new features like USB and FW.
me thinks that the old G4 is up for way more spanking than the beige G3

and that is a very good thing

kndonlee · May 5, 2003, 09:09 AM

Originally posted by DrBoar:
t's only a rumor, but before finding some evidences, it might let you dream
a bit.

June-July 2003: PPC 970 PowerMac and Xserve, PowerBooks with G4 @ 1.25 GHz.
August-September 2003: iMacs with 1.25 and 1.4GHz G4 processors.
November 2003: iBook still equiped with G3 processors, but Apple will now use the Gobi version of the processor at 1 and 1.2 GHz.
January-February 2004: Second generation of PPC 970, running at 2.5 GHz (maybe more). They will be used in PowerMacs and Xserves. iMacs will run for the first time with PPC970 at 1.4 and 1.6 GHz.
March 2004 (less sure): First presentation of the PPC980, mobile version of the PPC970, probably used to replace PowerBook's G4.

Two new products are being developed by Apple :
- The Xstation is a highly professional super computer with up to 64 processors (mini. 4). It will be equiped with the latest GPU and support a high quantity of memory. Price between 10000 and 75000$ (maybe more).The Xstation will aim people using some big apps as Maya and other CAD and high resolution video softwares.
- The Xserve Enterprise Edition (2 rackable units) will run with a Power 5 and will support a very large data flow.

I remember when the B&W G3 came out. Not only did the lowend B&W G3/300 beat the previous top end tower beige G3/333 in speed. It also had better design, faster bus way faster graphical card and several new features like USB and FW.
me thinks that the old G4 is up for way more spanking than the beige G3
and that is a very good thing

I hope....

beb · May 5, 2003, 09:20 AM

Damn. 2004 before I can get an iMac with an 970 in it's butt.

Commodus · May 5, 2003, 10:41 AM

beb:

Look at it this way, though - if the MacBidouille roadmap is accurate (and that's a big "if"), the base-model iMac in 2003 would soar from 800 MHz to 1.25 GHz - about 56% faster in terms of clock speed - and the top-end would go from 1 GHz to 1.4 GHz. If it turns out that the iMac used the PPC 7457 variant of the G4, it would have a DDR system bus and could actually be faster than some of the current PowerMacs.

I'm more than a bit suspicious of that roadmap, even as relatively plausible as it is, but one can definitely hope. The PPC 970 has the potential to be a catalyst that revives Apple in a big way.

DrBoar · May 5, 2003, 10:44 AM

to put the 970 and G4 in perspective I calculated how fast they have to run to keep up with a P4 3.06....
Pentium IV @ 3.06 GHz:
SPECint2000 1032 @ 3.06 [email protected]=Motorola G4@ 3.5GHz
SPECfp2000 1092 @ 3.06 [email protected]=Motorola G4@ 6.3GHz

The good news is that the 970 look very competetive. The drawback is that G4s with the current speed range will look to slow in comparison, as a single G4 get SPECint marks as a 1.2 GHz P4 and SPECfp as 700 MHz P4....

Norty · May 5, 2003, 04:29 PM

Everyone wants the new PMacs out with 970's as soon as possible. Think of the build up of demand that's been increasing for such a long time now. An Apple Education rep. I spoke with about a month and a half ago said I could expect to order new Mac towers (for a Graphic Art lab) near the end of September. Mysteriously she no longer is my rep. perhaps fired for a leak? Who knows, but with Panther coming out soon, it more realistically looks like Sept/Oct. to actually have one delivered to your door than May/June. If you can believe it, I have an old maxed out Power Tower Pro from years back that by replacing the cpu with upgrade cards is still alive and running Photoshop just fine. But I can tell you it's time for an upgrade (duh). If I could order that new loaded 970PPC with 2gigs of ram etc. today, I would. Hurry up already...

proux · May 5, 2003, 05:46 PM

Money... Burning... my pocket...

katorga · May 6, 2003, 12:45 AM

If the 1.6Ghz AMD opteron 64-bit processor can best the 3Ghz P4, then there is a good chance the 1.8Ghz 970 can as well. FWIW, the 1.6Ghz Inel Banias cpu (new P3-M chip in centrino notebooks) also matches the p4 in everything except floating point intensive tasks.

The P4 could have been a lot faster than it ended up. Only Intel's ability to brute force the clock speed kept the chip from being a dog.

awcopus · May 6, 2003, 03:29 PM

Originally posted by proux:
Money... Burning... my pocket...

Need....Speedier....Mac.....Yesterday....

Honestly, after this much foreplay, plus approximately SIX MORE MONTHS <cue "D'oh" echoing into space>...

I'm probably going to die of sexual ecstasy before I can reach the phone to place my order when the 970s are released with the new enclosures and wireless keyboard & 2-button mouse....

<drool>

Axo1ot1 · May 6, 2003, 04:22 PM

Originally posted by awcopus:
Need....Speedier....Mac.....Yesterday....

Honestly, after this much foreplay, plus approximately SIX MORE MONTHS <cue "D'oh" echoing into space>...

I'm probably going to die of sexual ecstasy before I can reach the phone to place my order when the 970s are released with the new enclosures and wireless keyboard & 2-button mouse....

<drool>

Damn...that's one sick fetish you've got there...

awcopus · May 6, 2003, 05:42 PM

Yes. Yes it really is.

Honestly, it feels like pro-Mac users have gotten a world-class lesson in S&M from Apple in recent years. Here we are wanting a new Mac so badly, and the "master" keeps teasing us with incremental satisfaction...like feather torture.

Currently, I have a video project lined up for September, and will want (desperately) a new Mac up-and-running in November to edit it. I sincerely hope that Apple finds a way to release a revolutionary new PowerMac before November (fingers, toes, balls all crossed...killing chicken tonight...).

Imagine if they release one last line with incremental upgrades:

1.1 GHz
1.33 GHz
1.52 GHz

LOL!!!!

It would royally suck if they don't come out with a new PowerMac until the SFExpo. I know I've been trained by Apple to be turned on by these protracted delays, but that would really just be obscene.