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Will someone be able to unlock the iPhone?
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How long do you think it will take, if its even possible, until someone unlocks the iPhone to use with other GSM carriers?
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Sounds impossible, since I think Cingular has to make special changes to its network.
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"The natural progress of things is for liberty to yield and government to gain ground." TJ
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I suppose it might be possible to use some of the iPhone's features (assuming someone is able to unlock it) but things like visual voice mail just won't work.
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I doubt it would be worth it. It would end up being a fraction of what the real iPhone is. And no one would pay that much for something that is crippled. But I don't doubt that someone will do it fairly quickly. But I do have doubts that it would catch on and people would actually start doing it regularly.
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I agree, someone might find a way to unlock it but your probably going to end up with a lot of unusable features. I heard Apple was trying to get verizon in on the deal but they wouldnt accept Apples contract. If thats true maybe apple is trying to get more cellphone providers to sell the iphone. Just a thought though.... Heres a link Mac Rumors: Verizon Rejected iPhone Deal due to Apple's Terms
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I doubt it. You can unlock other phones because the manufacturer wants that flexibility. But Apple wants the iPhone locked downs, so they're not going to build in a way to unlock it (usually done with a numeric code).
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All this talk of the iPhone being crippled without Cingular/AT&T doesn't convince me. The only feature of consequence is the visual voicemail. Every other feature so far announced on the iPhone already exists on other phones, so why would Apple re-invent the wheel, and require network changes for them, honestly?
I can totally understand why Apple locked in with Cingular, they're very concerned with user experience. And I can't fault them with that.
But I think it will only be a matter of time before some enterprising user figures out how to unlock it. Even if it takes a comparison of two models from different countries and see where the differences in software lies. Hell, it's OS X, I wouldn't be surprised if it amounted to a few .plist entry changes.
Consider the iPod for a minute. It too is supposed to be a "locked" device in the sense that you can only put music on it from iTunes, and can't copy music from the iPod, and for most users, this isn't a problem. Yet there are a plethora of 3rd party software utilities that enable you to do both, and to which Apple turns a blind eye towards.
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Originally Posted by Visnaut
Consider the iPod for a minute. It too is supposed to be a "locked" device in the sense that you can only put music on it from iTunes, and can't copy music from the iPod, and for most users, this isn't a problem. Yet there are a plethora of 3rd party software utilities that enable you to do both, and to which Apple turns a blind eye towards.
It's true that copying music from the iPod isn't hard, but... Last time I checked the iPod was indeed "locked" to iTunes in that you can't use DRMed music from any other music store in it.
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Originally Posted by mduell
I doubt it. You can unlock other phones because the manufacturer wants that flexibility. But Apple wants the iPhone locked downs, so they're not going to build in a way to unlock it (usually done with a numeric code).
If the phone can be locked to different service providers, then it can be unlocked as well. As long as the phone is designed to work with different service providers, someone will figure out how to unlock it.
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Originally Posted by Wiskedjak
If the phone can be locked to different service providers, then it can be unlocked as well. As long as the phone is designed to work with different service providers, someone will figure out how to unlock it.
While I doubt that Apple would go to such lengths, I can imagine a scheme where Cingular/AT&T modifies their network (which they've already done to support visual voice mail) to send out a cryptographic key to your iPhone. That sort of locking solution would be very difficult to circumvent. This is just pure conjecture. This is highly improbable because cell providers share their towers in some locales.
Also, given that OS X / Darwin lives underneath, the "lock" mechanism could easily be buried so deep at to not even have any direct UI tie-in (like entering a series of numbers on most phones).
Apple certainly has plenty of means to lock down the iPhone well (or not so well) as they see fit.
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Originally Posted by Wiskedjak
If the phone can be locked to different service providers, then it can be unlocked as well. As long as the phone is designed to work with different service providers, someone will figure out how to unlock it.
Not necessarily. Motorola builds phones to sell all over the world, so they build them to work with everyone then let various carriers dictate what kind of locks to install. So far as I know the iPhone is currently ONLY supposed to work with Cingular and then only after Cingular makes changes to their networks. This does not bode well for "unlocking". Instead of "locked" I think the better term would be something like "matched."
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Originally Posted by ghporter
Not necessarily. Motorola builds phones to sell all over the world, so they build them to work with everyone then let various carriers dictate what kind of locks to install. So far as I know the iPhone is currently ONLY supposed to work with Cingular and then only after Cingular makes changes to their networks. This does not bode well for "unlocking". Instead of "locked" I think the better term would be something like "matched."
Rogers Communication in Canada will also be carrying the iPhone. This suggests that the iPhone will have to be lockable to at least two carriers. Then there's the matter of the iPhone being released in the EU. Unless Apple develops individual software matched to each carrier, the software will likely be generic in the same way that Motorola's is.
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Originally Posted by Wiskedjak
Rogers Communication in Canada will also be carrying the iPhone. This suggests that the iPhone will have to be lockable to at least two carriers. Then there's the matter of the iPhone being released in the EU. Unless Apple develops individual software matched to each carrier, the software will likely be generic in the same way that Motorola's is.
I still think that the changes Cingular (and Rogers) will need to make to their networks indicate something beyond the kind of locking we see with other manufacturers' phones. And until and unless we learn what those changes are, we can only speculate. I personally don't know where to start looking for that information.
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Geez, of course it will be hacked/unlocked the same day its released.
Cingular does not have some secret network that is different from T mobile or any other GSM carrier.Whoop te do if visual voice mail doesnt work!
Am I the only one that does not see any big deal about the Iphone? Yes its cool looking but its not doing anything that hasnt been already done. Granted the Pocket PC phones truely suck and the Symbian ( very good interface) has not been properly maketed, but both can do what the iphone can.
The Iphone will sell well but I dont think that it will corner the cell market and surely wont in the corporate sector. The fragileness of the phone , lack of a qwerty keyboard , carrier tied, and price will deter many.
That being said, will I buy one? Of course I am a APPLE geek like the rest of us and love to drink Steve Jobs Kool Aid. But get real people, the Iphone is not doing anything that hasnt been done. Its just doing it with a better user interface.
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Originally Posted by Lorinserbenz
Am I the only one that does not see any big deal about the Iphone? Yes its cool looking but its not doing anything that hasnt been already done.
Well, that's sort of like saying "Am I the only one that does not see any big deal about the Mac? Yes its cool looking but its not doing anything that hasnt been already done on PCs." Strictly speaking that may be true, but it's all about the execution.
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Originally Posted by Lorinserbenz
Geez, of course it will be hacked/unlocked the same day its released.
Cingular does not have some secret network that is different from T mobile or any other GSM carrier.Whoop te do if visual voice mail doesnt work!
Am I the only one that does not see any big deal about the Iphone? Yes its cool looking but its not doing anything that hasnt been already done. Granted the Pocket PC phones truely suck and the Symbian ( very good interface) has not been properly maketed, but both can do what the iphone can.
The Iphone will sell well but I dont think that it will corner the cell market and surely wont in the corporate sector. The fragileness of the phone , lack of a qwerty keyboard , carrier tied, and price will deter many.
That being said, will I buy one? Of course I am a APPLE geek like the rest of us and love to drink Steve Jobs Kool Aid. But get real people, the Iphone is not doing anything that hasnt been done. Its just doing it with a better user interface.
You're obviously not an APPLE geek like the rest of us. If you were, you'd know that a list of features is NOT what makes any Apple product great. Its all about the user experience, the attention to detail, and many other things you can't list on a piece of paper. Of course the iPhone doesn't have any features (aside from a couple small ones like visual voicemail) that hasn't been done already, or will be done very soon. But those of us who understand Apple products aren't looking at those things.
Would you argue the same about the iPod? There are literally hundreds of devices out there that do the same exact thing as an iPod (aside from playing iTunes Store music). So then why is everyone buying it? And what makes the Mac OS better than Vista? They do the same crap.
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You are correct.. but sometimes less is more.
The Iphone will not appeal to the corporate segment because its fragile, lacks push email and no true keyboard.
The segment that the iphone is going to appeal to is a younger crowd. I can see it now, "mom dad can I have $500 for an Iphone?" . Heck no, you have a phone and an Ipod.. deal with it.
The iphone will be hot, and Ill buy one but I just dont see it getting the market share the IPOD has. Personally I think the Iphone should have been introduced three years ago.. and by now it would be the market leader in cell phones.
Oh and being tied to Cingular, which is not the best carrier wont help it.
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Originally Posted by ::maroma::
You're obviously not an APPLE geek like the rest of us. If you were, you'd know that a list of features is NOT what makes any Apple product great. Its all about the user experience, the attention to detail, and many other things you can't list on a piece of paper. Of course the iPhone doesn't have any features (aside from a couple small ones like visual voicemail) that hasn't been done already, or will be done very soon. But those of us who understand Apple products aren't looking at those things.
Would you argue the same about the iPod? There are literally hundreds of devices out there that do the same exact thing as an iPod (aside from playing iTunes Store music). So then why is everyone buying it? And what makes the Mac OS better than Vista? They do the same crap.
I KNOW THIS grasshopper...
Look at the bigger picture..
The phone is VERY expensive for the average person, its tied to a crappy carrier, and most people have a cell phone AND an Ipod.
I am VERY much an Apple person, have been for 12 years... I just dont see the Iphone as being the holy grail people are making it out to be.
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Of course the *current* iteration of iPhone won't be a smash success on the scale of the iPod. But the iPhone isn't likely to remain at this price point forever. This is Apple's first foray into the phone business, and it's going to be bought mostly by tech geeks like us. You know, kind of like the original iPod...
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Originally Posted by Lorinserbenz
I KNOW THIS grasshopper...
Look at the bigger picture..
The phone is VERY expensive for the average person, its tied to a crappy carrier, and most people have a cell phone AND an Ipod.
I am VERY much an Apple person, have been for 12 years... I just dont see the Iphone as being the holy grail people are making it out to be.
You DON'T know this. Why? Because you are writing off the iPhone before anyone has even had a chance to use it yet. And that shows someone who doesn't know Apple or what Apple is about.
Until I get a chance to use it myself, I am trusting that it will be a great product. I don't know if you were referring to me specifically, but I don't see the iPhone as anything near the iPod. And neither does Apple. Yes, the media and others are making a huge deal about it because of what Apple has done with the iPod. But even Apple said this thing won't be a smashing success in the phone market. They're going for 1% at best. Thats far from a holy grail.
But it will be an Apple product. And basing judgment purely on all other Apple products, this phone will most likely be better than the majority out there. Especially for Mac users who will finally have a phone that works absolutely seamlessly with your Mac. That is a very hard thing to come by right now. And that alone is enough to get me excited.
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No push email? Last I remember, Steve Jobs said it supported push email from Yahoo.
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True, although that's probably not good enough for corporate use.
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Originally Posted by Visnaut
...Consider the iPod for a minute. It too is supposed to be a "locked" device in the sense that you can only put music on it from iTunes, ...
Funny, I've copied all of my CDs over to iTunes and they loaded onto my iPod w/o any problems. You don't have to use music from the iTMS so I'd hardly call the iPod 'locked'.
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Originally Posted by icruise
True, although that's probably not good enough for corporate use.
Which part? The push or the email? Granted, no one here seems to know how Yahoo's free push mail service might integrate with corporate email, but i'd say: don't write it off until you do know. And if you do know, please do share.
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Originally Posted by krove
Which part?.
The "Yahoo" part.
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Originally Posted by msuper69
Funny, I've copied all of my CDs over to iTunes and they loaded onto my iPod w/o any problems. You don't have to use music from the iTMS so I'd hardly call the iPod 'locked'.
Oi, i knew I should have edited my post, I probably didn't word it right. Of course you're not limited to the iTMS, only idiotic CEOs of other online music stores would make that foolhardy assertion...
What i meant by "locked" is that the only method that Apple provides you for putting music on the iPod is using the iTunes software itself. And it certainly doesn't let you transfer music from an iPod to a computer (with the exception of iTMS purchases recently with iTunes 7, to authorized computers) in order to stop the masses from bringing over their iPods to their friends' computers and simply copying all of their music. It's their way of enforcing the "Don't steal music" policy.
Now the point I was getting at in my original post is that, although that's as far as Apple will allow you to go with their own software, there's quite a few 3rd party utilities that have reverse-engineered the iTunes DB file on an iPod, and enable you to copy songs from the iPod onto any computer, circumventing the 'protection' that iTunes has in place to prevent this. And Apple doesn't actively prevent such 3rd parties from doing so, and you can quite successfully go out and do this, though the large majority of users probably don't.
So hopefully with that point clear, the correlation I meant to make was that although Apple puts in certain restrictions with their hardware/software combo, it doesn't necessarily prevent users from circumventing those protections through other means.
And thus I think it will be the case with the iPhone: in so much as Apple cares, it will be 'locked' to specific carriers, but those willing to circumvent that lock will probably find a method for doing so not long after the iPhone is released.
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Why would they want to? For fun? So they don't have to cancel their current service plan? How would that benefit them in the long run? Yeah, some guy might figure out how to crack the code, but how many people are going to go down that road. Visual voicemail might be the only truly unique feature that needs a specific network key, but you know there's lots of other innovation in the pipeline that we'll see in the 2nd and 3rd generations, which is what 6-8 months apart typically. You guys should know there's still a few surprise out there too! Apple never tells you the whole feature story until the product is actually for sale.
Anyways, this is too big of a product for Apple to allow that to happen without some major code cracking or obstacles.
They now have the world's largest telecom partner in AT&T that is willing to back Apple's iPhone revenue model, Apple's infrastructure and content delivery model, and Apple's product secrecy model. Apple is on a roll and AT&T knows it and probably will do whatever to get a piece of it. AT&T has the telecom expertise and power that Apple needs to get to where they want, which we all know is the obvious integration of iChat and complete iTunes integration. That requires tremendous bandwidth and power across cell phone networks and AT&T can make it happen and is willing to do it on Apple's terms.
I'm sure there's 10 other things that we have never considered that are in the works too and it's hard to bring those to market without a partner that can keep a secret! And we all know how protective they are of their technology. Wouldn't it be great to have remote computer access on the iPhone too
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Why would I want to? Because I travel internationally on a monthly basis and I don't want to carry multiple phones. I want to drop a new SIM card in my phone and be good to go. I am already a Cingular customer, so aside from the 2 year contract requirement, I don't much care about being locked to Cingular in the US, but I sure as hell have no interest unless I can use my phone in Europe and Russia as well.
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Keep in mind that Cingular is not really just Cingular anymore, it's AT&T, Cingular, & Bellsouth all in 1. Cingular & Bellsouth won't be much help for you internationally agreed, but AT&T sure will be. They've had international coverage in hundreds of cities internationally, including those in Europe and parts of Russia.
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I just know that the moment someone crack it, its the time ill buy one. Cuz I dont live in the US or Canada is no reason not to have one.
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apple has an exclusive contract with cingular to carry the iPhones with Cingular only for about 2yrs from what I understand.
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Why wait to have someone hack the code? Wait till the European models roll out next year. There is little way in hell those phones will be locked to a single carrier.
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Originally Posted by TAZ
Why wait to have someone hack the code? Wait till the European models roll out next year. There is little way in hell those phones will be locked to a single carrier.
Why not?
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Originally Posted by jr704
Keep in mind that Cingular is not really just Cingular anymore, it's AT&T, Cingular, & Bellsouth all in 1. Cingular & Bellsouth won't be much help for you internationally agreed, but AT&T sure will be. They've had international coverage in hundreds of cities internationally, including those in Europe and parts of Russia.
Yes, and you'll pay like $1.00 to $2.00 per minute to use your phone there using your American cell phone company. If you travel internationally on a regular basis to the same country and make a lot of phone calls it is much CHEAPER to buy a SIM card in that country.
Example: you make ten 15-minute calls in Europe on your American SIM card at $2 surcharge per call and $1.00 per minute. You are then going to come home to a $230 bill (assuming you pay $50 a month for cell phone service).
Let's say you go to Greece often. Once every two months for two weeks, and you buy a SIM card for a one-time fee of $50. Then you can reload that card with 300 minutes at $10 a pop. Those same 150 minutes of calls that would have cost you $180 with your American carrier now only cost $5, after the initial set up fee.
That's why people want to unlock the iPhone, so they can go with cheaper local phone companies instead of bending over to be raped by the American phone companies with their exorbitant international roaming charges.
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