[holsteinson]

Apple needs to have its OS X 10.x ported to WINTEL machines asap if they really want to increase their market share just like the iPod has demonstrated already and specially with Microsoft OS Longhorn at least 1.5 years away!

PLEASE APPLE WAKE UP!! THE PC MARKET IS YOURS IF YOU DARE TO INNOVATE!

[JLL]

The minute Apple announces that Mac OS X will be able to run on regular Wintel machines, software companies will dump support, since they can reach all their customers with the Windows version.

[eggman]

God, not this again.

People who can't successfully balance their checkbooks (and I'm not talking specifically about this poster) think they know how to run Apple.

Apple is a hardware company that makes great software to support thier hardware. Period.

[Grrr]

Originally Posted by eggman

God, not this again.

Hey, I wanted to post that!

[Millennium]

Originally Posted by JLL

The minute Apple announces that Mac OS X will be able to run on regular Wintel machines, software companies will dump support, since they can reach all their customers with the Windows version.

Exactly. What Apple needs to do is price its products competitively, not port to a crap architecture that will simply eat it alive.

[ManOfSteal]

Thanks for trying, it's Monday I know...come back next Monday and try again.

[larkost]

This has been done to death, over, and over again. Not going to happen. If Apple were to ever make a version of MacOS X for x86 it would not run on just any Wintel machine. And that is not for arbitrary reasons, but because Apple could not give the same experience on the quantity of junk that is out on that side of things. Just look at linux as an example: the amount of hardware that is unsupported, barely supported, or just plain flakey is enormous.

[holsteinson]

look what the economical success of the iPod by making it available to MAC and PC users without it APPLE financial would be really in red or even chapter 11 (specially with its inability to make INNOVATION in its computer hardware for the last year) APPLE needs $$ that can only come from increasing marketshare and that is the sad reality!

Originally Posted by eggman

God, not this again.

People who can't successfully balance their checkbooks (and I'm not talking specifically about this poster) think they know how to run Apple.

Apple is a hardware company that makes great software to support thier hardware. Period.

[Hi I'm Ben]

Originally Posted by holsteinson

look what the economical success of the iPod by making it available to MAC and PC users without it APPLE financial would be really in red or even chapter 11 (specially with its inability to make INNOVATION in its computer hardware for the last year) APPLE needs $$ that can only come from increasing marketshare and that is the sad reality!

[typoon]

Originally Posted by holsteinson

look what the economical success of the iPod by making it available to MAC and PC users without it APPLE financial would be really in red or even chapter 11 (specially with its inability to make INNOVATION in its computer hardware for the last year) APPLE needs $$ that can only come from increasing marketshare and that is the sad reality!

Apple hasn't been in the "red" for many Quarters now. Even before the iPod. I don't think Apple has been in the "red" since like 99. Apple, I doubt highly would be in Chapter 11 since it's had some VERY VERY dark times in the early to mid 90's and has still survived without Chapter 11.

As the saying goes... "Apple, going out of business for the Past 30 years."

[JHromadka]

With the Mac mini, OS X is available to PC users. As a second machine.

[holsteinson]

It can not happen what you want since Apple DOES NOT have a market share that would allow them to purchase the volume required to get competitive pricing!! it is a catch 22 regretfuly for APPLE and us!!

Originally Posted by Millennium

Exactly. What Apple needs to do is price its products competitively, not port to a crap architecture that will simply eat it alive.

[Millennium]

Originally Posted by holsteinson

look what the economical success of the iPod by making it available to MAC and PC users

That's called interoperability, not porting. Windows and Mac iPods are identical hardware-wise. They are Apple's gateway drug, and thus far they've been quite successful at that.

without it APPLE financial would be really in red or even chapter 11...

That's not actually true. Although the iPod has been a great financial success for Apple, they have furvived quite well -and yes, profitably too- without it for quite a few years before it was ever released. It is true that there have been some times where Apple has had trouble, but they have never gone so far as Chapter 11 (and even that is not a death sentence).

(specially with its inability to make INNOVATION in its computer hardware for the last year)

Define 'innovation'. I find the water-cooled G5s, the motion-sensing PowerBooks, and Airport Express to be quite innovative.

[holsteinson]

Apple coming down from US$150+stock value to US$10 is not bad enough? rebounding with ipod to +US$70? it is good idea to check the iPod's real influence in APPLE $$ and marketshare...

Originally Posted by typoon

Apple hasn't been in the "red" for many Quarters now. Even before the iPod. I don't think Apple has been in the "red" since like 99. Apple, I doubt highly would be in Chapter 11 since it's had some VERY VERY dark times in the early to mid 90's and has still survived without Chapter 11.

As the saying goes... "Apple, going out of business for the Past 30 years."

[eggman]

Originally Posted by holsteinson

look what the economical success of the iPod by making it available to MAC and PC users without it APPLE financial would be really in red or even chapter 11 (specially with its inability to make INNOVATION in its computer hardware for the last year) APPLE needs $$ that can only come from increasing marketshare and that is the sad reality!

-2 points on style for using capitalized words for emphasis.

-1 special bonus point for capitalizing "Mac", which is considered egregious in this community.

-3 points for undermining your own argument by using Apple's success in designing marketable hardware (the iPod) as evidence that they should undermine their computer hardware business.

-4 points for resurrecting an argument which has been beaten into the ground repeatedly since it was first proposed in, uh, 1985 or so.

I'm afraid that leaves you with zero.

[Millennium]

Originally Posted by holsteinson

It can not happen what you want since Apple DOES NOT have a market share that would allow them to purchase the volume required to get competitive pricing!! it is a catch 22 regretfuly for APPLE and us!!

Apple's profit margins on hardware are far and away the highest in the industry, even taking into account the higher prices of the cases they use. Most of the other components are off the shelf, except for the motherboards, which they do in house, and the processors, which are actually cheaper per unit than the Pentium series (this has been true since the G3 days).

The real problem is that Apple is addicted to its price points. When a model ages to the point where sales begin to slip, rather than lowering its price they update the hardware to keep the price point going, usually by retiring the lowest-end model, shifting the higher-end models down a slot, and adding a new highest-end model. This model itself is not flawed, but they only offer three models in a given line and refresh all of them at once. If they were to, for example, increase the number of models to five and refresh using only the top three slots, they should be able to offer more competitive pricing while still maintaining good margins. This should also prove useful in clearing out older inventory, which is something Apple has had problems with in the past.

[Grrr]

Originally Posted by holsteinson

Apple coming down from US$150+stock value to US$10 is not bad enough? rebounding with ipod to +US$70? it is good idea to check the iPod's real influence in APPLE $$ and marketshare...

LOL! so you think Apple porting their OS to run on cheaper hardware, that would cannibalise their own hardware sales is going to help that do you?

[discotronic]

Originally Posted by holsteinson

look what the economical success of the iPod by making it available to MAC and PC users without it APPLE financial would be really in red or even chapter 11 (specially with its inability to make INNOVATION in its computer hardware for the last year) APPLE needs $$ that can only come from increasing marketshare and that is the sad reality!

First off it is Mac and not MAC. MAC is the address of a network card.

Second, please back up your statements with solid proof or you will not be taken seriously here. The whole marketshare arguement is meaningless to a point. How many hardware companies does it take to make the Windows marketshare as high as it is? Take a look at Apple's profits from the last couple years and tell me what you see then come back and try again.

[holsteinson]

watercooling for a 2.5ghz chip? PC has have it for over 3 years and cheaper and they are hitting already 4ghz chip

motion sensing... also available (more over most biometric sensors are only available for PC not mac)

airport express very slow and limited range specially if compared to 11n cards available already for over 6months and cheaper

for the last 2 years, I dont see the kind of innovation that APPLE has us used to get !! They can not even accelerate the bus speed of the motherboard!! They are running dry and everyone knows it

Originally Posted by Millennium

That's called interoperability, not porting. Windows and Mac iPods are identical hardware-wise. They are Apple's gateway drug, and thus far they've been quite successful at that.

That's not actually true. Although the iPod has been a great financial success for Apple, they have furvived quite well -and yes, profitably too- without it for quite a few years before it was ever released. It is true that there have been some times where Apple has had trouble, but they have never gone so far as Chapter 11 (and even that is not a death sentence).

Define 'innovation'. I find the water-cooled G5s, the motion-sensing PowerBooks, and Airport Express to be quite innovative.

[OptimusG4]

Originally Posted by holsteinson

watercooling for a 2.5ghz chip? PC has have it for over 3 years and cheaper and they are hitting already 4ghz chip

motion sensing... also available (more over most biometric sensors are only available for PC not mac)

airport express very slow and limited range specially if compared to 11n cards available already for over 6months and cheaper

for the last 2 years, I dont see the kind of innovation that APPLE has us used to get !! They can not even accelerate the bus speed of the motherboard!! They are running dry and everyone knows it

Well if you're so f*cking unhappy, pack your bags and go back to the windows world.

[Millennium]

Originally Posted by holsteinson

Apple coming down from US$150+stock value to US$10 is not bad enough?

When did that happen?

rebounding with ipod to +US$70?

If you're talking about what I think you're talking about, most of that rebound happened well before the iPod was ever introduced.

it is good idea to check the iPod's real influence in APPLE $$ and marketshare...

Oh, there's no doubt the iPod has been a great help, but not in the way you think it has. The entire point of the iPod is to sell Macs. This was true even before the Windows version was released, and it has done even better since then. However, this is a very careful calculation on Apple's part, and it involves things which just plain would not work for OSX.

Or, to put it another way: if I can get OSX on a PC, why would I bother buying a Mac?

[JLL]

Originally Posted by holsteinson

Apple coming down from US$150+stock value to US$10 is not bad enough? rebounding with ipod to +US$70? it is good idea to check the iPod's real influence in APPLE $$ and marketshare...

Remember that Apple has been splitting their stock a couple of time, so the $10 is actually $20 (in relation to the $150), and the $35 from today is $140.

Apple is selling more Macs at the moment than they have been for years, and the Macs are still a major part of the revenue.

Yes, the iPod (hopefully) has an influence, but it's much better to let iPod users by a Mac than let them buy Mac OS X for Wintel.

Do you really think that Adobe and others would like to port their apps to Mac OS X on x86? Why should they use money on another branch, if all their users can use one of the two current versions?

[cdetdi]

To be fair:

Watercooling wasn't an innovation, its been around for more than half a decade.
Motion sensing hard drives were first used by IBM

I don't remember where I read this, but doesn't Apple have an extreme amount of liquid assets? I heard that much of their enormous profits from the later 80s early 90s had been saved and invested, so the company is sitting on large amounts of reserve. Someone said that Apple could actually lose a certain amount of money in sales and still make an overall profit from their investments. In any event, they are extremely financially sound.

We have all known Apple as a hardware company, but now we cannot deny that their success comes from fantastic software, not hardware, which is lackluster. I like that Apple makes both the hardware and the software, it makes for some cool innovations and ease of use features that just wouldn't otherwise be possible. However, if Apple were to be successful, I don't think they could keep it this way. If Apple ever started to regain significant peices of market share, I'm sure some anti-monopoly lawsuits would follow. Making hardware that makes your softtware work better, or vice versa, is decidely anti-competitive.

cdetdi

[holsteinson]

Nobody is forcing you to respond this subject and it is obvious you dont have the arguments to do it .... so who's got the real zero here?

Originally Posted by eggman

-2 points on style for using capitalized words for emphasis.

-1 special bonus point for capitalizing "Mac", which is considered egregious in this community.

-3 points for undermining your own argument by using Apple's success in designing marketable hardware (the iPod) as evidence that they should undermine their computer hardware business.

-4 points for resurrecting an argument which has been beaten into the ground repeatedly since it was first proposed in, uh, 1985 or so.

I'm afraid that leaves you with zero.

[JLL]

Originally Posted by holsteinson

watercooling for a 2.5ghz chip? PC has have it for over 3 years and cheaper and they are hitting already 4ghz chip

Perhaps you should stop reading Intel's press releases and take them as facts.

Originally Posted by holsteinson

airport express very slow and limited range specially if compared to 11n cards available already for over 6months and cheaper

Perhaps it was AE's other feature that Millenium meant?

[JLL]

Originally Posted by cdetdi

If Apple ever started to regain significant peices of market share, I'm sure some anti-monopoly lawsuits would follow. Making hardware that makes your softtware work better, or vice versa, is decidely anti-competitive.

Why? It's their platform - the x86 platform isn't Microsoft's even though they act like it.

[Millennium]

Originally Posted by holsteinson

watercooling for a 2.5ghz chip? PC has have it for over 3 years and cheaper and they are hitting already 4ghz chip

Intel recently cancelled its plans to produce a 4ghz chip; where did you get the idea that they were "already hitting" such clockrates? Although certain highly-specialized PCs have had watercooling, I challenge you to find me one, under the following guidelines:

• It must be a stock model. I should be able to walk into a store and buy one, or use an online store without customizing my order.
• It must not be a specialized machine. This machine should be targeted at a general market, either consumer or professional. For example, specialized 'gaming PCs' do not count.

motion sensing... also available (more over most biometric sensors are only available for PC not mac)

Show me a model. By the way, motion sensore are not biometric.

airport express very slow and limited range specially if compared to 11n cards available already for over 6months and cheaper

802.11n? Show me where I can buy such a card. Also worth noting that AirPort Express is not a 'card', so this is an apples-to-oranges comparison anyway, but I want to see where you're getting these cards from. Last I checked, the standard was scheduled to be finalized in November 2006 -over a year and a half from now- so I very much doubt that any such card exists. Any card which claims compliance with such a standard is fraud.

for the last 2 years, I dont see the kind of innovation that APPLE has us used to get !! They can not even accelerate the bus speed of the motherboard!!

Um, does the word 'HyperTransport' ring a bell?

They are running dry and everyone knows it

Certainly not 'everyone'; in fact, you're the first person I've seen in quite a long time to accuse Apple of running dry. Certainly there have been dry spells in the past, but from all indications this is not one of them.

You know, where exactly are you getting your information from? This is an honest question. I have a few theories of my own, but I'd like to see if they're bearing any fruit.

[piracy]

Originally Posted by holsteinson

Nobody is forcing you to respond this subject and it is obvious you dont have the arguments to do it .... so who's got the real zero here?

You, still, for bringing up this ridiculous ****ing argument again and making it sound as simple as you did.

Apple, financial analysts, and people generally much, much, much smarter than you have considered this general idea for the better part of the last two decades. There are a variety of economic, technical, market, and other reasons why Apple WILL NOT be "porting" OS X to generic x86 hardware.

Note: someday, Apple may switch processor architectures. Jobs has specifically said on this topic that Mac OS X is designed to be portable (it is), and a full version of Darwin, the underlying core OS of Mac OS X, is maintained for x86. But if Apple ever did switch to x86, the OS would not run on just any x86 hardware, period. Much of what makes Mac OS X so good is the tight control and integration between hardware and software. It's not something you can just throw on a $350 Dell, as much as you wish it were so.

I can't believe I wasted time responding to this ****.

[eggman]

Originally Posted by holsteinson

Nobody is forcing you to respond this subject and it is obvious you dont have the arguments to do it .... so who's got the real zero here?

Sometimes there's just no point to making certain arguments that have been rehashed again and again and again... and it's tempting to make snarky remarks instead.

I'll just leave you with one thought: most people who don't want to switch to the Mac claim that their biggest reason for not doing so is that there's more software available on the PC.

Porting OS X to the Intel architecture doesn't do anything to address that barrier to entry. I suspect that many existing Mac software developers would balk at supporting two different hardware platforms.

[siMac]

Originally Posted by holsteinson

Apple MUST port OS X to PC ASAP if they want grow their %

Shut up.

Nuff said.

[Don Pickett]

Screw that. Apple needs to port OS X to the 6502 family so I can run it on my //c!

[ManOfSteal]

Darn, he left to collect more "data" it seems.

[Millennium]

It looks like I fell for it too, but looking over this guy's posting history -all seven posts of it- I think we may have been trolled. Most legit posters don't go posting flamebait for their very first thread in a forum.

[alphasubzero949]

That's it. I'm going to Windows. MAC SUX0RS!!!111one

[betasp]

Apple does not give a rat's a$#$@ about market share. It is about profit, that is all. Right now it is more profitable in the hardware business, so that is where Apple will stay. OSX on an X86 is a stop-gap measure if profits were to tumble or the hardware business failed.


Nothing else to see here, move along.

[gorgonzola]

I don't think this is going anywhere. As usual.