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Zoom · Sep 17, 2004, 12:13 AM

I just upgraded to a PowerMac DP 1.8 G5 and I was going to transfer my Firewire PCI card from my old G4 Sawtooth... but it didn't fit. I mean, the keying was wrong on the card. Did PCI change in the last 4-5 years? It's still called "PCI", it's not "PCI-X" or whatever. If it did change, then what is the distinguishing characteristic that I need to know when ordering a new PCI card? I need more FW400 ports and I'd rather not get a hub. I might get a USB 2.0 card, too. (Man, there just aren't enough ports on this thing.)

On a side note, is it still true that the Mac need the keyboard plugged into the CPU and not into a hub? I seem to recall this was an issue for my Sawtooth.

deboerjo · Sep 17, 2004, 03:44 AM

The new PowerMacs require 3.3V PCI cards or 3.3V/5V universal cards. Older 5V-only cards won't work. 3.3V PCI has been around for a very long time (the first Macs with 3.3V slots were the blue G3s, the topmost slot is a 3.3V 66MHz slot for the graphics card, the other 3 slots are 5V 64-bit), it's just taken a very long time to catch on.

Turnpike · Sep 17, 2004, 06:06 AM

I do think the dual 1.8s all have PCI-X, but I could be wrong. However, this is backwards compatible, from what I understand, with 3.3v PCI.

As for the hub... I don't know, but IIRC, the problem with using the hub was the power. If you get a powered hub from a name brand, it should be just fine. I do recall there being some problem with specific older Belkin hubs, but I'm not sure. Anyway, if you get a hub, you've still got 1 plug for the hub, 1 plug for the kb/mouse, and a free plug in front. If anything else you have complains about the hub, again, I suggest because perhaps it isn't a powered hub.

blakespot · Sep 17, 2004, 07:15 AM

Originally posted by Zoom:
I just upgraded to a PowerMac DP 1.8 G5 and I was going to transfer my Firewire PCI card from my old G4 Sawtooth... but it didn't fit. I mean, the keying was wrong on the card. Did PCI change in the last 4-5 years? It's still called "PCI", it's not "PCI-X" or whatever. If it did change, then what is the distinguishing characteristic that I need to know when ordering a new PCI card? I need more FW400 ports and I'd rather not get a hub. I might get a USB 2.0 card, too. (Man, there just aren't enough ports on this thing.)

I just purchased a Belkin FireWire card for my dual G5 2.5 and it did not fit. 5v - will have to return it. After some searching I found what I need. Here are links to 3.3v (compatible with your machine) FW cards. I ordered the one shown in the first link:

http://fwdepot.com/thestore/product_...roducts_id/173

http://fwdepot.com/thestore/product_...products_id/30

http://fwdepot.com/thestore/product_...roducts_id/117

http://fwdepot.com/thestore/product_...roducts_id/118

blakespot

Zoom · Sep 17, 2004, 08:21 AM

The NEW dualie 1.8GHz machines do NOT have PCI-X. The previous models (which were the mid-level PM's) DID have PCI-X.

Thanks for the links. So it talks about 3.3v and 5v, and PCI 2.1 and 2.2. Are those two things related? Am I looking for PCI 2.2 cards?

tooki · Sep 17, 2004, 07:05 PM

Note that ALL G5's, even those without PCI-X, support ONLY 3.3V cards.

tooki

Zoom · Sep 22, 2004, 11:35 AM

Okay, this is still frustrating me. I can find no apparent characteristic to search on to guarantee that a given PCI card will fit in my new PowerMac. The "PCI 2.2 compliant" isn't sufficient. It actually looks like I need PCI 2.3 cards. Can anyone verify this?

Problem is, this is NOT a commonly quoted tech spec on the sites I've looked at. If they have a picture of the card with sufficient clarity, I can usually see whether the card has one or two key slots in it (two slots presumably meaning the card is PCI 2.3) - otherwise, there's literally no indication whatsoever. How can this be? Is it possible that no one is using this new spec but Apple? I mean, there's certainly precedent for that, but that makes it a lot harder to find compatible cards.

Am I missing something?

eyadams · Sep 22, 2004, 01:15 PM

Am I missing something?

Possibly. If you have a card in hand, telling the difference is pretty straightforward. Take a look at http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=86513 and there are pictures showing the physical differences between 5 volt and 3.3 volt cards. If you're looking at specs on a web site, you're right - the 3.3 versus 5 volt distinction isn't always clear. Your best bet would be contact a manufacturer and ask.

Zoom · Sep 23, 2004, 07:17 AM

Originally posted by eyadams:
Take a look at http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=86513

PERFECT. That is precisely what I wanted to see! Thanks!

deboerjo · Sep 24, 2004, 12:45 PM

PCI version numbers have little to do with it, 3.3V cards have been around since PCI 2.0, just search for 3.3V cards, or look at the pictures; if the card has two notches, or if the notch is closest to the back of the computer, you're good. One notch closer to the front of the computer is 5V only.

Zoom · Sep 27, 2004, 02:38 PM

Okay, so now I know how to identify the right type of card. Now where do I go to buy one for a decent price? The prices run from $15 to $80 (the expensive ones usually come with software for some specific purpose).

Here's a FW/USB card that looks interesting. It's a universal card (3.3/5V), so it'll fit. (Note that one of the two external FW ports is a mini port.) But it says at the bottom:

Note: This unit currently does not support , "Deep Sleep" mode in OS X.

What are the actual implications of this? I'm not sure I understand. The hard drive won't ever spin down when the Mac goes to sleep? Or the drive won't mount when I wake the G5 from sleep? Or something else?

Is this a common problem for these cards and the G5? Does anyone know of a perfectly compatible FW PCI card?

I'm looking for at least 3 FW400 ports (don't need FW800), or if it's a combo FW/USB, then 2 FW400 ports are probably okay.

Finally, why do all of these damn card have internal ports?? My only guess is to feed front-mounted FW ports on PCs.

P · Sep 27, 2004, 02:56 PM

Originally posted by Zoom:
Okay, so now I know how to identify the right type of card. Now where do I go to buy one for a decent price? The prices run from $15 to $80 (the expensive ones usually come with software for some specific purpose).

Here's a FW/USB card that looks interesting. It's a universal card (3.3/5V), so it'll fit. (Note that one of the two external FW ports is a mini port.) But it says at the bottom:

What are the actual implications of this? I'm not sure I understand. The hard drive won't ever spin down when the Mac goes to sleep? Or the drive won't mount when I wake the G5 from sleep? Or something else?

Is this a common problem for these cards and the G5? Does anyone know of a perfectly compatible FW PCI card?

I'm looking for at least 3 FW400 ports (don't need FW800), or if it's a combo FW/USB, then 2 FW400 ports are probably okay.

Finally, why do all of these damn card have internal ports?? My only guess is to feed front-mounted FW ports on PCs.

Deep sleep is the one you get when you push the power button on modern machines. You can shut down the HD, the display and the graphics board separately, and you can probably also let the CPU clock down into a low-power mode (don't know exactly what the power saver panel looks like on the G5s), but you cannot reach the true sleep. If you try, the machine will wake right up again.

Internal ports was partially because Apple had that at one point, hoping for internal Firewire HDs, and partially because of those front-mounted ports.

Zoom · Sep 27, 2004, 03:52 PM

Originally posted by P:
Deep sleep is the one you get when you push the power button on modern machines. You can shut down the HD, the display and the graphics board separately, and you can probably also let the CPU clock down into a low-power mode (don't know exactly what the power saver panel looks like on the G5s), but you cannot reach the true sleep. If you try, the machine will wake right up again.

So... deep sleep is something that does not happen automatically? I'm not sure exactly what you're saying here. Are you saying that having this card in place will affect the ability of the entire machine to go to sleep, like from inactivity? Sorry, I'm just not following you.

P · Sep 28, 2004, 03:02 PM

Originally posted by Zoom:
So... deep sleep is something that does not happen automatically? I'm not sure exactly what you're saying here. Are you saying that having this card in place will affect the ability of the entire machine to go to sleep, like from inactivity? Sorry, I'm just not following you.

Deep sleep can happen automatically. Actually, what you think of as Sleep (from the Apple menu or on timer or something) is in OS X always Deep sleep. As a part of that, the computer cuts power to PCI boards. This requires some logic to make them wake up again. If this logic is missing, when sleeped the machine will bounce right back out of it again.