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goMac · Dec 3, 2006, 02:30 AM

Originally Posted by smacintush

Why would you want to put anything on top of it?

To put it with other AV gear that... you know... also stacks on top of each other.

Chuckit · Dec 3, 2006, 02:31 AM

JHC, that thing is enormous. I'd never looked at it next to an Xbox before. It looks like a cross between one of those giant old VCRs and Darth Vader's head.

smacintush · Dec 3, 2006, 03:07 AM

Originally Posted by goMac

To put it with other AV gear that... you know... also stacks on top of each other.

I have a Direct TV receiver, Old DVD player, Xbox 360, Newer H.T./DVD player, and a VCR. None of those things are even CLOSE to the same width. Doesn't it look like crap to stack those things?

- - e r i k - - · Dec 3, 2006, 10:02 AM

****, the PS3 is about the same size as my old Beocenter :/

jokell82 · Dec 3, 2006, 10:18 AM

Originally Posted by smacintush

I have a Direct TV receiver, Old DVD player, Xbox 360, Newer H.T./DVD player, and a VCR. None of those things are even CLOSE to the same width. Doesn't it look like crap to stack those things?

Then you bought some bobo brands, because the majority of home theater equipment out there is the same width. It's designed this way so home theater furniture can be made without custom creating each piece.

I've got a receiver, 2 dvd players, a SACD/DVDA player, and a digital tv dvr box, and every single one of them is the same width.

Jawbone54 · 12:44 PM

The PS3 is HUUUUUUGE, and to be honest, I'm more fond of the 360's look. I do think it (the PS3) looks pretty nice though, until fingerprints are all over it.

smacintush · Dec 3, 2006, 04:14 PM

Originally Posted by jokell82

Then you bought some bobo brands, because the majority of home theater equipment out there is the same width. It's designed this way so home theater furniture can be made without custom creating each piece.

I've got a receiver, 2 dvd players, a SACD/DVDA player, and a digital tv dvr box, and every single one of them is the same width.

Well, let's just say that yeah, my components are of "mixed" quality.

Dark Helmet · Dec 3, 2006, 04:25 PM

Originally Posted by smacintush

Xbox is a little WHITE but it looks pretty good anyway.

Oh from the front I think the 360 looks pretty nice. But it still looks like standard plastic with buttons. Standing and from the side it looks like an old compaq desktop (those little grey ones).

The PS3 is this ultra dark and glossy material. The touch buttons are old news to Mac users but it still looks cool especially with white buttons under the black plastic. They are also the only ones that put a lot of thought in how it would look from the side as it is unconventional and just usable from more angles. You can use the PS3: 1) laying on its side 2) Standing with the front facing you 3) Standing with the side facing you.

They were smart to put the buttons where they are and touch sensitive.

But ya, it is huge. Guess what the Wii, Mac Mini and 360 would look like with internal power supplies.

Dark Helmet · Dec 3, 2006, 04:32 PM

Originally Posted by goMac

The curved top makes it impossible to put anything on top of the PS3.

The gamecube had a flat top and you STILL couldn't stack the thing because they put a top loading drive. It was one of the main complaints about the hardware people had with it. Even if you didn't want to stack it you couldn't put it on a typical shelf.

Either way, no way in hell would I stack electronics on each other. I have shelves separating them.

The only stacking you see is those white trash homes where they have a 60" CRT rear projector with all the AV equipment stacked on the top of the TV itself, oak coffee table and the wife's flower pots on top of one speaker and a teddy bear on the other.

Jawbone54 · Dec 3, 2006, 04:34 PM

Does anyone here even use the customizable face plates for the 360? I never thought they were that great; at least not any that I'd seen.

Dark Helmet · Dec 3, 2006, 04:36 PM

Originally Posted by Jawbone54

Does anyone here even use the customizable face plates for the 360? I never thought they were that great; at least not any that I'd seen.

The thing I don't like about them is it only covers the front face. If you see it from any other angle it looks like it is wearing some cheap phone faceplate from the 90's.

Eug Wanker · Dec 3, 2006, 05:10 PM

Originally Posted by Dark Helmet

The gamecube had a flat top and you STILL couldn't stack the thing because they put a top loading drive. It was one of the main complaints about the hardware people had with it. Even if you didn't want to stack it you couldn't put it on a typical shelf.

Either way, no way in hell would I stack electronics on each other. I have shelves separating them.

The only stacking you see is those white trash homes where they have a 60" CRT rear projector with all the AV equipment stacked on the top of the TV itself, oak coffee table and the wife's flower pots on top of one speaker and a teddy bear on the other.

I guess I'm poor white trash then.

P.S. I have vases and candles on my speakers.

Dark Helmet · Dec 3, 2006, 05:17 PM

Originally Posted by Eug Wanker

I guess I'm poor white trash then.

I never said poor.

Plus you automatically disqualified when you're not white

TETENAL · Dec 3, 2006, 05:45 PM

The PlayStation 3 might be the last PlayStation. It seems like Sony is planning to drop the game console market and focus on games only.

FT.com / Companies / IT - Sony sidelines PS3 mastermind Kutaragi

“The appointment of Hirai could be the start of a shift from hardware to software,” said Yuta Sakurai, an analyst at Nomura. “I cannot now imagine a PlayStation4.”

Dark Helmet · Dec 3, 2006, 06:01 PM

Originally Posted by TETENAL

The PlayStation 3 might be the last PlayStation. It seems like Sony is planning to drop the game console market and focus on games only.

FT.com / Companies / IT - Sony sidelines PS3 mastermind Kutaragi

Others said it was a stupid suggestion to even think that.

Jawbone54 · Dec 3, 2006, 06:09 PM

Originally Posted by Eug Wanker

I guess I'm poor white trash then.

P.S. I have vases and candles on my speakers.

That's well organized. Doesn't look trashy at all.

Jawbone54 · Dec 3, 2006, 06:13 PM

Originally Posted by TETENAL

The PlayStation 3 might be the last PlayStation. It seems like Sony is planning to drop the game console market and focus on games only.

FT.com / Companies / IT - Sony sidelines PS3 mastermind Kutaragi

The problem is that now Sony is competing with Microsoft, possibly one of the most aggressive companies in the world. They're more willing to take a temporary loss with the 360 to gain market share and slowly bleed Sony from the market. It's too early to tell if that will be successful this generation, but with the PS3 at $600 at a loss for Sony (meaning that Sony will likely not be able to afford a price drop for a very long time) and the 360 getting a year's head start, Microsoft's gaming division probably feels pretty good about its chances.

icruise · Dec 3, 2006, 06:13 PM

Originally Posted by TETENAL

The PlayStation 3 might be the last PlayStation. It seems like Sony is planning to drop the game console market and focus on games only.

FT.com / Companies / IT - Sony sidelines PS3 mastermind Kutaragi

If they were going to do that, wouldn't you think the best time would be BEFORE launching a games console like the PS3?

- - e r i k - - · Dec 3, 2006, 06:27 PM

Originally Posted by TETENAL

The PlayStation 3 might be the last PlayStation. It seems like Sony is planning to drop the game console market and focus on games only.

FT.com / Companies / IT - Sony sidelines PS3 mastermind Kutaragi

Oh noes. I guess we will never see the PS9 now :/

smacintush · Dec 3, 2006, 07:03 PM

Originally Posted by Dark Helmet

Either way, no way in hell would I stack electronics on each other. I have shelves separating them.

The only stacking you see is those white trash homes where they have a 60" CRT rear projector with all the AV equipment stacked on the top of the TV itself, oak coffee table and the wife's flower pots on top of one speaker and a teddy bear on the other.

Or piled into one of those $69.95 Sauder entertainment centers.

I thought that it was a bad idea to stack them because of heat?

goMac · Dec 3, 2006, 07:09 PM

Originally Posted by Dark Helmet

The gamecube had a flat top and you STILL couldn't stack the thing because they put a top loading drive. It was one of the main complaints about the hardware people had with it. Even if you didn't want to stack it you couldn't put it on a typical shelf.

Either way, no way in hell would I stack electronics on each other. I have shelves separating them.

The only stacking you see is those white trash homes where they have a 60" CRT rear projector with all the AV equipment stacked on the top of the TV itself, oak coffee table and the wife's flower pots on top of one speaker and a teddy bear on the other.

Sure, but the Gamecube wasn't a large system anyway. If a system is going to be a mammoth, I'd at least like it to be boxy shaped. At least the Wii's form factor allows it to be stuffed someplace next to A/V gear.

goMac · Dec 3, 2006, 07:11 PM

Originally Posted by TETENAL

The PlayStation 3 might be the last PlayStation. It seems like Sony is planning to drop the game console market and focus on games only.

FT.com / Companies / IT - Sony sidelines PS3 mastermind Kutaragi

I think Sony is reconsidering the Playstation, but given they're an electronics company and not a games company, I couldn't see them going software only. If anything, for the Playstation 4, I see them going the route of the Wii. Going for playability and not hardware power.

- - e r i k - - · Dec 3, 2006, 07:37 PM

This is Sony we are talking about. You can bet the PS4 will be no less than 1500 times more powerful than the PS3 and do your homework for you while rendering the full Pixar back-catalog in real-time.

Me, I am hoping for the Slimline PS3 by then

Dakar² · Dec 3, 2006, 07:40 PM

I'm sure they'll be using human brains harvested from children in small impoverished countries to increase the processing power in the PS4.

TETENAL · Dec 3, 2006, 07:48 PM

Originally Posted by icruise

If they were going to do that, wouldn't you think the best time would be BEFORE launching a games console like the PS3?

BEFORE the PS3 I assume they assumed the PS3 will repeat the great success of the PS2. It's only now that they see it turned out to be a disaster. If it accumulates a lot of losses for the company, I could see why they would cancel any further game console projects.

Dark Helmet · Dec 3, 2006, 07:51 PM

Originally Posted by - - e r i k - -

This is Sony we are talking about. You can bet the PS4 will be no less than 1500 times more powerful than the PS3 and do your homework for you while rendering the full Pixar back-catalog in real-time.

Me, I am hoping for the Slimline PS3 by then

Well the N64 was codenamed "Project reality".

goMac · Dec 3, 2006, 08:06 PM

Originally Posted by Dark Helmet

Well the N64 was codenamed "Project reality".[/img]

And considering it was the first console to do full 3D games, it was a pretty big step.

The PS1 could be forced to do 3D (and it got better when people put together 3D toolkits), but the N64 was the first dedicated 3D console with a dedicated 3D API.

goMac · Dec 3, 2006, 08:08 PM

Originally Posted by TETENAL

BEFORE the PS3 I assume they assumed the PS3 will repeat the great success of the PS2. It's only now that they see it turned out to be a disaster. If it accumulates a lot of losses for the company, I could see why they would cancel any further game console projects.

The PS2 and PS1 was different because it was an economic console. It was cheaper and easier to produce than the competition, and easier to develop for.

The PS3 is the opposite of everything the PS2 and PS1 were.

ink · Dec 3, 2006, 08:11 PM

Originally Posted by goMac

And considering it was the first console to do full 3D games, it was a pretty big step.

The PS1 could be forced to do 3D (and it got better when people put together 3D toolkits), but the N64 was the first dedicated 3D console with a dedicated 3D API.

C'mon man, the PS1 targeted OpenGL from the start. It did "full" 3D games on launch (6 months before the N64) Sophia's chest proved it!

Also, the Saturn and the 32x predated both, and each did 3D.

Gamoe · Dec 3, 2006, 08:12 PM

Originally Posted by TETENAL

BEFORE the PS3 I assume they assumed the PS3 will repeat the great success of the PS2. It's only now that they see it turned out to be a disaster.

Huh? Why is it a disaster? It just launched. We won't know which platform ended up a "disaster" and which ended up a "success" for a quite a while from now (unless we see a Sega-type exit, which is highly unlikely). Even though I went with the Wii, I'd much rather see Sony win than M$.

goMac · Dec 3, 2006, 08:15 PM

Originally Posted by ink

C'mon man, the PS1 targeted OpenGL from the start. It did "full" 3D games on launch (6 months before the N64) Sophia's chest proved it!

Also, the Saturn and the 32x predated both, and each did 3D.

I don't think the PS1 did OpenGL. I'd like to see a link on that.

The Saturn and the 32x both could be shoehorned into doing 3D. Any console technically can do 3D. The problem is they weren't really built for 3D, rather developers managed to write their own 3D code.

This is on a different technical level than the N64.

goMac · Dec 3, 2006, 08:16 PM

Originally Posted by Gabriel Morales

Huh? Why is it a disaster? It just launched. We won't know which platform ended up a "disaster" and which ended up a "success" for a quite a while from now (unless we see a Sega-type exit, which is highly unlikely). Even though I went with the Wii, I'd much rather see Sony win than M$.

Why would you rather see Sony win instead of Microsoft?

ink · Dec 3, 2006, 08:18 PM

Aiieee, I'm reliving Fanboy Wars 1995!

goMac · Dec 3, 2006, 08:19 PM

Originally Posted by ink

Aiieee, I'm reliving Fanboy Wars 1995!

I hope we don't go back any further. Then I'll be stuck awkwardly bashing Nintendo in my Sega fanboy mode.

Genesis FTW!

Gamoe · Dec 3, 2006, 08:22 PM

Originally Posted by goMac

Why would you rather see Sony win instead of Microsoft?

Uhm... because M$ is probably closer to world domination than Sony, and Sony seems to have more to offer gamers than M$, in my opinion.

TETENAL · Dec 3, 2006, 08:25 PM

Originally Posted by Gabriel Morales

Huh? Why is it a disaster?

Because every sale costs Sony an enormous amount of money, for many many years to come.

goMac · Dec 3, 2006, 08:25 PM

Originally Posted by Gabriel Morales

Uhm... because M$ is probably closer to world domination than Sony, and Sony seems to have more to offer gamers than M$, in my opinion.

Sony is arrogant and that's why they deserve to be pushed out by M$. Sony is not really innovating because they don't really have to. Meantime Microsoft is packing everything they can into the XBox to sell it. Sony is playing catchup in a lot of ways. Microsoft does have a monopoly in computer operating systems, but it's still not nearly the power Sony has in home electronics. Just because Microsoft has a controlling share in one industry does not make it close to world domination.

icruise · Dec 3, 2006, 08:27 PM

Originally Posted by TETENAL

BEFORE the PS3 I assume they assumed the PS3 will repeat the great success of the PS2. It's only now that they see it turned out to be a disaster. If it accumulates a lot of losses for the company, I could see why they would cancel any further game console projects.

You really think Sony is surprised by the PS3's progress up to now? You're acting like they launched the console, waited a couple of weeks and said "no, this isn't working out -- let's scrap the whole thing!" The PS3 launch is not one of the best, but it really has NO bearing whatsoever on the future of the console. In a couple of years, if the PS3 isn't doing well and Bluray is losing to HD-DVD, that's the time that Sony might consider this kind of shift.

My guess is that they had the whole management shakeup planned for months, but they wanted to let Kutaragi stay on for the launch to allow him to see the project through.

TETENAL · Dec 3, 2006, 08:27 PM

The PlayStation 3 is very innovative. 8 cores (7 active), Blue-Ray etc. It's an extremely powerful machine. The problem is that is late and can not be produced in sufficient amounts and at a competitive price.

icruise · Dec 3, 2006, 08:32 PM

Originally Posted by TETENAL

Because every sale costs Sony an enormous amount of money, for many many years to come.

Apparently Sony is losing about the same amount on each PS3 as they did on each PS2 ($150-200) in the beginning. Microsoft apparently lost about $125 on every Xbox 360, although I'm not sure if manufacturing improvements have made up for this since launch. Losing money on a console doesn't necessarily mean anything. Sony is betting on software royalties to take up some of the slack, and for the rest they are obviously hoping to use the PS3 as a wedge to get Bluray into people's homes and so don't mind some short-term losses.

goMac · Dec 3, 2006, 08:33 PM

Originally Posted by TETENAL

The PlayStation 3 is very innovative. 8 cores (7 active), Blue-Ray etc. It's an extremely powerful machine. The problem is that is late and can not be produced in sufficient amounts and at a competitive price.

Stuffing 8 Cores and Bluray into a console isn't innovative. It requires a soldering gun and some IDE cabling. A brain dead monkey could come up with that plan.

ink · Dec 3, 2006, 08:33 PM

Originally Posted by goMac

I hope we don't go back any further. Then I'll be stuck awkwardly bashing Nintendo in my Sega fanboy mode.

Genesis FTW!

I was a complete Sony fanboy all over rec.games.video.* in 1995. I pre-ordered the PSX, and picked up Battle Arena Toshinden, Wipeout and Ridge Racer with it. I eventually bought an N64 and enjoyed it, but it never came close to being as good as my PSX.

goMac · Dec 3, 2006, 08:35 PM

Originally Posted by icruise

Apparently Sony is losing about the same amount on each PS3 as they did on each PS2 ($150-200) in the beginning. Microsoft apparently lost about $125 on every Xbox 360, although I'm not sure if manufacturing improvements have made up for this since launch. Losing money on a console doesn't necessarily mean anything. Sony is betting on software royalties to take up some of the slack, and for the rest they are obviously hoping to use the PS3 as a wedge to get Bluray into people's homes and so don't mind some short-term losses.

The price on the PS2 was average at launch. With the PS3, Sony is going to have to combine price drops with manufacturing advances to keep it selling at a profitable price. They're not in the same position they were in with the PS2, because the PS2 started at a competitive price.

ink · Dec 3, 2006, 08:37 PM

Originally Posted by icruise

Microsoft apparently lost about $125 on every Xbox 360, although I'm not sure if manufacturing improvements have made up for this since launch.

Microsoft hasn't made a penny on the X-Box project (both the original and the 360). They hope to break even in 2008.

But then again, they have billions of dollars in the bank, so....

icruise · Dec 3, 2006, 08:48 PM

Originally Posted by goMac

The price on the PS2 was average at launch. With the PS3, Sony is going to have to combine price drops with manufacturing advances to keep it selling at a profitable price. They're not in the same position they were in with the PS2, because the PS2 started at a competitive price.

That much is true. By including the Bluray player they have created what will probably be a good trojan horse for the format, but they have also increased the price to a dangerously high level. However, I'm not sure how many people there really are who can afford a $400 console (Xbox 360 premium) but not a $500 console (20GB PS3). I'm omitting the Xbox 360 core because it can't even save games without an additional purchase, which makes that price difference largely illusory.

One thing is for sure -- both Microsoft and Sony have priced themselves out of the range of many people's budgets, so the Wii or (ironically) the PS2 will probably be the choices of many for that reason.

goMac · Dec 3, 2006, 08:50 PM

Originally Posted by ink

Microsoft hasn't made a penny on the X-Box project (both the original and the 360). They hope to break even in 2008.

But then again, they have billions of dollars in the bank, so....

I think the advantage Microsoft has is they have been very good at producing good software for the XBox, XBox Live, streaming media, etc. Code costs nothing to reproduce, so it's certainly a good place to have an advantage.

icruise · Dec 3, 2006, 09:17 PM

Heh, I just got a PS3 banner ad at the top of the page. Is that new?

Eug · Dec 3, 2006, 09:36 PM

MindFad · Dec 3, 2006, 09:40 PM

Haha, nice.

icruise · Dec 3, 2006, 09:41 PM

God I miss Japanese electronics stores.