Welcome to the MacNN Forums.

If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.

You are here: MacNN Forums > Community > MacNN Lounge > What do I feel like a criminal...

What do I feel like a criminal...
Thread Tools
Atheist
Mac Elite
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Back in the Good Ole US of A
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jun 19, 2007, 09:36 AM
 
I do a lot of commerce online using credit cards. More and more I find that I have to go through elaborate verification steps to get my order processed. This usually involves emails, phone calls, faxing "proof" I am who I say I am. What I've noticed is that more often than not, the tone of conversation/correspondence is one of almost contempt. It's as though I'm presumed a fraud and must prove otherwise. I understand that credit card fraud is a big issue, but I'm sick of being treated like I'm somehow trying to deceive them. Anyone else share this experience?
     
Dakarʒ
Professional Poster
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: A House of Ill-Repute in the Sky
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jun 19, 2007, 09:49 AM
 
It's probably because you're an Atheist.
     
Kevin
Baninated
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: In yer threads
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jun 19, 2007, 09:50 AM
 
I'd be glad they were acting that way IMHO.
     
Chuckit
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: San Diego, CA, USA
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jun 19, 2007, 10:31 AM
 
I think you're taking a perfectly reasonable security precaution a bit personally.
Chuck
___
"Instead of either 'multi-talented' or 'multitalented' use 'bisexual'."
     
Dakarʒ
Professional Poster
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: A House of Ill-Repute in the Sky
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jun 19, 2007, 11:04 AM
 
Originally Posted by Atheist View Post
What do I feel like a criminal...
...because you've been careless with a delicate man?

Yes, I realize I already made a joke, but this one is much better, so I had to take it.
     
::maroma::
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: PDX
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jun 19, 2007, 12:02 PM
 
They do that because the actual criminals are finding ways around the usual ways of doing business. So the screws get tightened, and we all have to deal with it.

(And kudos to Dakar for never giving up.)
     
Chuckit
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: San Diego, CA, USA
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jun 19, 2007, 12:14 PM
 
Originally Posted by Dakarʒ View Post
...because you've been careless with a delicate man?

Yes, I realize I already made a joke, but this one is much better, so I had to take it.
That one was much better. And I kind of surprised myself by getting it.
Chuck
___
"Instead of either 'multi-talented' or 'multitalented' use 'bisexual'."
     
Dakarʒ
Professional Poster
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: A House of Ill-Repute in the Sky
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jun 19, 2007, 12:15 PM
 
The first one was an early morning reach (Edit: 9.49, guess not. I just flat-out sucked). But this a rare admission from you, so I take it as quite the compliment.

Or maybe we're all really bored at lunch.
     
ghporter
Administrator
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: San Antonio TX USA
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jun 19, 2007, 12:50 PM
 
If you get the impression that customer service people are treating you with contempt, ASK TO SPEAK TO THEIR SUPERVISORS. Confirming a customer's credit card and other information is important to maintaining the security of the whole credit sales process, but the people working on the transaction have no business behaving badly. If you got that kind or response in a brick-and-mortar store, would you put up with it? I sure wouldn't, and I hope you wouldn't either.

Glenn -----OTR/L, MOT, Tx
     
Atheist  (op)
Mac Elite
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Back in the Good Ole US of A
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jun 19, 2007, 01:05 PM
 
Originally Posted by Chuckit View Post
I think you're taking a perfectly reasonable security precaution a bit personally.
Maybe so... but I'm just getting annoyed by it all. Here's my latest transaction with MacMall. I ordered a MacBook Pro:

16 June 11:00 AM - Received order confirmation via email.

17 June 9:11 PM - Received email indicating that they were experiencing some problems processing the order and asked me to call in to confirm some of the information on the order.

17 June 9:30 PM - Tried calling, sat on hold forever, finally gave up.

18 June 1:00 PM - Tried calling again, sat on hold again for over 25 minutes, finally gave up.

18 June 5:30 PM - Tried calling again, got through and spoke to a rather unpleasant woman that was very terse with me. All she asked for was my billing address and phone number (all of which was supplied on the original order). She was unable to identify the "problem" they were having with my order.

18 June 6:00 PM - Called my bank to find that MacMall had already charged my account for the order.

19 June 9:20 AM - Received an email from Evelyn Romero (Team Lead - Credit Card Processing) at MacMall asking me to either fax or reply via email with a written acknowledgment of the order identifying the order number, amount, my credit card issuer, and my billing address. It says that if I don't reply within 48 hours they will suspend further processing of the order... mind you they've already charged my credit card. I immediately replied with the requested information.

19 June 10:46 AM - Received a voice mail asking me to call the Credit Card Processing department at MacMall to confirm the order or they will cancel it. Haven't called back yet.

19 June 10:48 AM - Received an almost identical email to the last only this time from Joanne Mirabueno at MacMall (she's in the Credit Card Processing department but doesn't appear to be a Team Lead). Again it asks me to send a reply via fax (a different fax number than before) or email with the same information. If I don't respond in 48 hours, they'll suspend further processing of the order. Not sure if suspending processing would result in my getting a refund. Haven't replied yet.

This is just one of many similar experiences I've had with online merchants. If they are so freakin' worried about fraud, why have they already charged my card? And the damn computer isn't even for me... it's for my brother-in-law.
     
Person Man
Professional Poster
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Northwest Ohio
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jun 19, 2007, 01:14 PM
 
Originally Posted by Atheist View Post
Maybe so... but I'm just getting annoyed by it all. Here's my latest transaction with MacMall. I ordered a MacBook Pro:

<s n i p>

This is just one of many similar experiences I've had with online merchants. If they are so freakin' worried about fraud, why have they already charged my card? And the damn computer isn't even for me... it's for my brother-in-law.
That's MacMall's problem. Not yours. If I were you, I'd call and cancel the order. Tell them you're sick and tired of all the crap they're putting you through (no other online retailer would treat you that way) and since they won't tell you what the "problem" is, you'd rather take your business elsewhere.

Seriously, do a search on MacMall and you'll see how bad they are.
     
MacosNerd
Professional Poster
Join Date: Jun 2007
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jun 19, 2007, 01:21 PM
 
If you starting to deal with issues talk with a customer service rep, say from macmall and lay it on the line. You don't have to do business with them and if they keep asking for things that are out of the ordinary take your business else where
     
Atheist  (op)
Mac Elite
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Back in the Good Ole US of A
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jun 19, 2007, 01:42 PM
 
Just got off the phone with MacMall. They wanted me to fax in a copy of my driver's license, a copy of my credit card bill, a copy of the front and back of the credit card, and a letter of authorization to bill the card. I asked why the hassle and she told me that the phone number I used on the order didn't match the phone number registered with my bank (I've subsequently called the bank to confirm the correct phone number is on my account). I told her to just cancel the order.

I guess that's what I get for trying to avoid paying sales tax. Guess I'll just order direct from Apple.
     
Atheist  (op)
Mac Elite
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Back in the Good Ole US of A
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jun 19, 2007, 01:44 PM
 
Originally Posted by Dakarʒ View Post
...because you've been careless with a delicate man?

Yes, I realize I already made a joke, but this one is much better, so I had to take it.
Oh... and yes... I got the reference. I'm a Fiona Apple fan.
     
Dakarʒ
Professional Poster
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: A House of Ill-Repute in the Sky
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jun 19, 2007, 01:47 PM
 
I know all of two songs she's done.

I also have gotten Criminal stuck in my head.
     
turtle777
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: planning a comeback !
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jun 19, 2007, 05:13 PM
 
I have never had that problem with any online merchant. I never had to fax extra information, call in for verification and such. So I don't know what you are talking about.

I'd just take my business somehwere else.

-t
     
turtle777
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: planning a comeback !
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jun 19, 2007, 05:24 PM
 


On a related note, I guess YOU must be the problem.

Two students in Germany managed to order electronic equipment worth EUR 3,600,000,000. (3,6B) for their school. It wasn't until the school received the order confirmation that they were caught.

Link in German:
Teurer Streich: Schler bestellen Computer fr 3,6 Milliarden Euro - SchulSPIEGEL - SPIEGEL ONLINE - Nachrichten

-t
     
dowNNshift
Dedicated MacNNer
Join Date: Nov 2001
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jun 19, 2007, 05:28 PM
 
Holy crap -- once you said it was MacMall, your sentiment made total sense. MacMall sucks -- they have no concept of customer service. Not only that, they'll hit your card repeditively for each accessory purchased getting your credit card fraud department all in a tizzy.

Here's another vote for cancelling your order with MacMall.
Now there are so many other choices of places to buy Mac hardware and accessories with MUCH better customer service; i.e. NewEgg, Apple Online, Apple brick and motar stores, Mac Connection, or from Apple Authorized Business Agents.

Oh, btw -- NewEgg now sells new Apple portables and in many cases tax free.
     
ebuddy
Posting Junkie
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: midwest
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jun 19, 2007, 06:50 PM
 
Originally Posted by Dakarʒ View Post
...because you've been careless with a delicate man?

Yes, I realize I already made a joke, but this one is much better, so I had to take it.
OMG!
ebuddy
     
Big Mac
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Los Angeles
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jun 19, 2007, 07:29 PM
 
If you're buying big ticket items on a credit card, you may get contacted by your credit card company (or asked to contact them) to ensure the charges are legitimate. It's really for your protection if you think about it.

"The natural progress of things is for liberty to yield and government to gain ground." TJ
     
Mastrap
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Toronto
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jun 19, 2007, 09:38 PM
 
It can still be, on occasion, a pain in the ass. I got hit several times by American Express refusing to process hotel bills - this was at a time where I was travelling for work, a lot. Standing at the check out counter trying to call AMEX while there's a cab waiting to take you to the airport is one of life's more unpleasant experiences.
     
ghporter
Administrator
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: San Antonio TX USA
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jun 19, 2007, 09:48 PM
 
Originally Posted by Mastrap View Post
It can still be, on occasion, a pain in the ass. I got hit several times by American Express refusing to process hotel bills - this was at a time where I was travelling for work, a lot. Standing at the check out counter trying to call AMEX while there's a cab waiting to take you to the airport is one of life's more unpleasant experiences.
I've learned to pre-authorize such things. If you call your credit card company (AmEx is very good about this) and tell them you're going to be traveling to some high-cost areas and to expect such charges, they are almost always ready to work FOR you and authorize them, rather than PROTECT you by questioning them.

Glenn -----OTR/L, MOT, Tx
     
Mastrap
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Toronto
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jun 19, 2007, 10:57 PM
 
I agree, but the frequency this was happening at was out of synch with my spending habits. They could see that the card was used internationally all of the time, with no reports coming in that the card was lost or stolen and all bills settled in a timely manner.

It finally stopped after I complained a couple of times, but it was still annoying.
     
DeathToWindows
Professional Poster
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Nashville, TN
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jun 19, 2007, 11:02 PM
 
Cancel the order. Order it from Amazon or something.

Don't try to outweird me, I get stranger things than you free with my breakfast cereal.
     
red rocket
Mac Elite
Join Date: Mar 2002
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jun 20, 2007, 04:47 AM
 
The root of the whole problem are credit cards.

Banks and governments have successfully managed to strip consumers of control over their own assets. Every transaction is monitored, free and anonymous exchange of money has become criminalised. Already, bank accounts are required for practically everything; if the fụckers have their way, soon nobody will be able to buy anything without a credit card, for which all kinds of extraneous information will be gathered at the expense of privacy and civil liberties. Financial slavery, absolute dependence on the goodwill of transnational corporatists who want to control every aspect of people's lives.

Stop using credit cards, people, you're surrendering your freedoms. If a company doesn't take cash, boycott it. If they require personal data, avoid them like plague rats.

Let's face it, individuals are being treated like shıt because they put up with it. Mark the difference to how you're treated when you buy in a professional capacity. You order the item, no questions asked, you receive the item along with a bill, you stick some cash in an envelope and pay them within a few weeks. That's how everybody used to do business at one time, the supposed conveniences of online banking and paying without cash are lures to get customers to abandon their rightful expectation to be treated like human beings.
     
Mastrap
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Toronto
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jun 20, 2007, 06:29 AM
 
Originally Posted by red rocket View Post
Every transaction is monitored, free and anonymous exchange of money has become criminalised.
It has? While I like a good conspiracy theory as much as the next guy, that's a little over the top, no?
     
red rocket
Mac Elite
Join Date: Mar 2002
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jun 20, 2007, 07:25 AM
 
You think so, eh?

Like it or not, the only anonymous payment method (cash) is being phased out. If you don't use a credit card, you're treated with suspicion.

Cash is for neo‑criminals. Terrorists, tax evaders, and other scum who have something to hide. If you're a decent, law‑fearing citizen, you are expected to use payment methods that are completely traceable. The same goes for your income. ID cards, CCTV cameras, random police checks, national and transnational databases, all of it tied together through the banking system. The government does not want individuals who are capable of making untraceable transactions, it wants glass sheep whose every financial, physical and electronic activity it can examine and assess for security threats.

Big Brother wants to know where you are, what you earn, how you earn it, and exactly where and when you spend it. Every time you pay somebody and provide them with your identity at the same time, that event is logged somewhere. They know where you were at the very second, they know what you bought, from whom, exactly how much the purchase has affected your credit rating. Thinking about going on a plane? Thinking about running away from your creditors? Remember, they know where you live, where you've stayed, they know how much money you have, they know what you owe, they know exactly what you own because they know how you bought it. If they want to, they can bankrupt you with a keystroke. They can make you a non‑person, just like that. Still feeling free?

The Matrix has you, Mastrap. Wake up.
     
dowNNshift
Dedicated MacNNer
Join Date: Nov 2001
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jun 20, 2007, 08:05 AM
 
Paranoia

Simply put, I think the original poster was just irritated that MacMall was being obnoxiously overly protective. True the vendor has the right to vette customer credentials, although some are so tacky about it that it leaves many consumers feeling has he did, a criminal unless proven otherwise.

Unfortunately there is a lot of fraud going on, so of course if your billing and shipping addresses are different it will raise red flags. Especially if its your first time buying from that internet vendor. Vendors have to protect themselves, because once the product ships it's likely never coming back. This is no excuse for MacMall though. They have poor billing practices as I mentioned earlier.

There's lots of vendors that do want your business and will make you feel positive about the transaction. That's the beauty of our free market society.

Oh, and what happened to MacNN's potty language filter?
     
Dakarʒ
Professional Poster
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: A House of Ill-Repute in the Sky
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jun 20, 2007, 08:10 AM
 
Well this took an interesting turn.
     
Person Man
Professional Poster
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Northwest Ohio
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jun 20, 2007, 09:09 AM
 
Originally Posted by dowNNshift View Post
Oh, and what happened to MacNN's potty language filter?
It's easy to evade by using nonstandard letters.
     
Dakarʒ
Professional Poster
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: A House of Ill-Repute in the Sky
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jun 20, 2007, 09:16 AM
 
Originally Posted by dowNNshift View Post
potty language filter
I never knew someone who uses the term 'potty language' would notice the filter. Seems contradictory.
     
andi*pandi
Moderator
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: inside 128, north of 90
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jun 20, 2007, 11:20 AM
 
when macmall started asking you to fax your actual credit card and other detailed info, I would have begun wondering if the account rep was hoping to take your card and go shopping themselves. Fishy sounding.

If it had been my credit card company calling though I would have been glad they were looking out for me.
     
Atheist  (op)
Mac Elite
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Back in the Good Ole US of A
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jun 20, 2007, 11:48 AM
 
Originally Posted by Mastrap View Post
I agree, but the frequency this was happening at was out of synch with my spending habits. They could see that the card was used internationally all of the time, with no reports coming in that the card was lost or stolen and all bills settled in a timely manner.

It finally stopped after I complained a couple of times, but it was still annoying.
I used to do a lot of international travel and had the same problem. I can't tell you how many times I would be paying for something with my Visa or AMEX card and it was denied. I'm now in the habit of calling my bank before I travel to have them place a note on my account of my travel dates.
     
Mastrap
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Toronto
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jun 20, 2007, 01:59 PM
 
Originally Posted by andi*pandi View Post
If it had been my credit card company calling though I would have been glad they were looking out for me.
They aren't looking out for you, they are looking out for themselves.

Card holders are, usually, not liable for fraudulent purchases.
     
Mastrap
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Toronto
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jun 20, 2007, 02:02 PM
 
Originally Posted by red rocket View Post
The Matrix has you, Mastrap. Wake up.
The second I can't use cash, or any other method of anonymous payment, anymore I will agree with you.
     
iMOTOR
Mac Elite
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: San Diego
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jun 21, 2007, 04:39 AM
 
MacMall are a bunch of douche bags. The fcukers want your phone number and address just to sell you something in person at their retail store in Torrance.

I walked in a few years ago to buy a nine dollar iPod accessory with cash, if I was buying a computer then asking for phone and address might be warranted, but refusing to sell an iPod accessory without personal info is retarded. It's none of their efing business. Later bought the same damn thing at Fry's, no problem.
     
Powerbook
Mac Elite
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: München, Deutschland
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jun 21, 2007, 04:59 AM
 
Sort of a spin-off question: I plan some holidays in the U.S.. Will I have problems ordering / buying stuff in the U.S. with my German credit cards?

PB.
Aut Caesar aut nihil.
     
Angus_D
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: London, UK
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jun 21, 2007, 06:31 AM
 
Originally Posted by Powerbook View Post
Sort of a spin-off question: I plan some holidays in the U.S.. Will I have problems ordering / buying stuff in the U.S. with my German credit cards?
The only time I've had trouble is for cardholder not present transactions with a shipping address in the US on a UK card. That was a pain. For cardholder present transactions, they just swipe it and be done with it. I don't think they even checked the signature on the back for most transactions.
     
iMOTOR
Mac Elite
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: San Diego
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jun 21, 2007, 03:12 PM
 
Originally Posted by Powerbook View Post
Sort of a spin-off question: I plan some holidays in the U.S.. Will I have problems ordering / buying stuff in the U.S. with my German credit cards?

PB.

For large purchases, like a Mac for example, the merchant credit processing sometimes will trigger a "call for authorization". Some non US banks don't put phone numbers on the back of their cards, or if they do it will be a recorded message.

Check the back of your card and if there is a phone number try calling it, if you get a person on the line within a reasonable amount of time then tell them what you plan to do.
     
   
Thread Tools
 
Forum Links
Forum Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Top
Privacy Policy
All times are GMT -4. The time now is 03:03 PM.
All contents of these forums © 1995-2017 MacNN. All rights reserved.
Branding + Design: www.gesamtbild.com
vBulletin v.3.8.8 © 2000-2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.,