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You are here: MacNN Forums > Hardware - Troubleshooting and Discussion > iPhone, iPad & iPod > What will happen when someone wants to sell their old Verizon iPhone?

What will happen when someone wants to sell their old Verizon iPhone?
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macintologist
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Oct 12, 2010, 05:01 PM
 
Verizon uses CDMA, which means the carrier information is hard coded into the cell phone's chip. Verizon iPhones would be no different. If you buy a Verizon iPhone it has to be used on Verizon and cannot be changed. There's no unlocking, nada.

That will blow your VeriPhone's resale value. Right now you can sell your AT&T iPhone to anyone in the world because it's GSM and the whole world uses GSM. This opens you up to a whole world full of eager iPhone buyers, thus driving up your iPhone's resale value.

Apple knows this and that is why there will never be a CDMA iPhone, ever.

CDMA iPhone = worthless no-resale-value customer-confusion-inducing piece of junk.
     
The Final Dakar
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Oct 12, 2010, 05:15 PM
 
Doesn't China use CDMA?

Anyway, I doubt regular folks will care nor the type of Apple folk who are willing to eat early adoption price tags and such. Many people will gladly pay that "premium" just to leave AT&T.

Also, I really don't think Apple gives a shit about the resale price you get.
     
macintologist  (op)
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Oct 12, 2010, 05:37 PM
 
Apple cares about customer confusion. Right now there is only one iPhone and everyone knows it. Now there will be one GSM iPhone, and then a separate iPhone for every single CDMA provider.
     
The Final Dakar
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Oct 12, 2010, 05:45 PM
 
I like how you're trying to make this sound profoundly worse than it is. (If it happens) There will be a AT&T iPhone and a Verizon iPhone. Not that hard to grasp.
     
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Oct 12, 2010, 05:46 PM
 
Add India to the list of CDMA countries:

Indian Firms in Talks to Sell iPhone - WSJ.com

There's one iPhone and everyone knows it. And if a person hasn't purchased one by now, they have remained with their current carrier (in the States, anyway) b/c of it. Verizon's LTE network is still years away from their current CDMA-coverage density. While I think it'd make better sense to focus on the future tech, I'm betting Apple would still sell a ton of CDMA-based phones here and in the rest of the world.

I think CDMA is useless to you. To Apple, both their installed base numbers and bank account, would disagree. From the article above:

Launching a CDMA phone will give Apple access to more customers in the world's fastest-growing telecom market, which is adding around 18 million users a month. India currently has about 670 million wireless users, of which roughly 20% use CDMA phones. GSM phones make up most of the market.
134 million potential customers in one country alone.
     
Spheric Harlot
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Oct 12, 2010, 06:58 PM
 
AT&T doesn't unlock your phone, either. Second-hand and jailbroken is a small market - a geeks' and clueless fools' market.
     
Big Mac
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Oct 13, 2010, 12:58 AM
 
The Verizon rumors have yet to be confirmed, and no Verizon iPhone has seen the light of day, but people are already concerned about after-market resale value?

The current very believable rumor is that the iPhone will gain hybrid GSM-CDMA hardware. Regardless of that, though, a Verizon customer can theoretically sell a used handset to a different Verizon customer.

"The natural progress of things is for liberty to yield and government to gain ground." TJ
     
subego
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Oct 13, 2010, 07:25 AM
 
Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot View Post
AT&T doesn't unlock your phone, either. Second-hand and jailbroken is a small market - a geeks' and clueless fools' market.
There's a massive grey market for jailbroken iPhones in the third world.

When I bought my iPhone 4 I was able to sell my 1G for $60 through Gazelle. They couldn't offer that unless someone was willing to buy it at a markup.
     
chabig
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Oct 13, 2010, 08:37 AM
 
Originally Posted by macintologist View Post
There's no unlocking, nada.

That will blow your VeriPhone's resale value. Right now you can sell your AT&T iPhone to anyone in the world because it's GSM and the whole world uses GSM. This opens you up to a whole world full of eager iPhone buyers, thus driving up your iPhone's resale value.
You don't have to unlock a cell phone to sell it. I bought a used cell phone when I was on Sprint. I just took it into the store and they activated on my account.
     
Spheric Harlot
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Oct 13, 2010, 09:42 AM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
There's a massive grey market for jailbroken iPhones in the third world.
I'd think it's absolutely minute compared to the market for actually unlocked iPhones?
     
amazing
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Oct 13, 2010, 03:00 PM
 
Verizon's confirmed that they're rolling out a broad LTE network by the end of 2010:

Verizon Wireless Confirms Broad U.S. LTE Rollout for 2010 - Mobile and Wireless from eWeek

And LTE chips for phones are not yet available. This article raises the interesting question as to whether Apple would come out with a CDMA phone that would be instantly obsolete? Sure they issue a CDMA phone for emerging markets, but would they? Would Apple rather wait 6 months for a CDMA iPhone that they can roll out world-wide?

Verizon Won’t Get the iPhone Until Summer 2011: Here’s Why | Cult of Mac

So hold the horses on the Verizon iPhone rumor. I doubt anyone's gonna give you a loan with a Verizon iPhone as collateral...
     
subego
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Oct 13, 2010, 04:42 PM
 
Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot View Post
I'd think it's absolutely minute compared to the market for actually unlocked iPhones?
Why?

If it has to be jailbroken, it's cheaper. We're talking about places that aren't exactly flush with cash.
     
Spheric Harlot
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Oct 13, 2010, 04:46 PM
 
Yeah, but a jailbroken iPhone is a hassle unless you're into the whole geek thing or just never update.
     
subego
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Oct 13, 2010, 04:59 PM
 
I think someone living in Burundi may have a different idea of what constitutes a hassle.
     
Spheric Harlot
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Oct 13, 2010, 05:12 PM
 
I'm quite certain that his solution would not entail purchasing an iPhone, in any form.

Ancient Nokia dumbphones are dirt cheap and much more resilient.
     
subego
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Oct 13, 2010, 05:16 PM
 
Email on a Nokia? Now that's a hassle.
     
subego
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Oct 13, 2010, 06:43 PM
 
Seriously though, I think one of the reasons jailbreaking isn't the same issue is that a lot of these phones aren't being synced up to a computer. The iPhone is that person's computer.
     
mduell
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Oct 13, 2010, 06:53 PM
 
Not sure where this FUD came from. You can buy any Verizon phone second hand and activate it on another account.
     
The Final Dakar
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Oct 13, 2010, 06:56 PM
 
I have a feeling this thread is a bit of a post and run.
     
macintologist  (op)
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Oct 13, 2010, 09:52 PM
 
Originally Posted by mduell View Post
Not sure where this FUD came from. You can buy any Verizon phone second hand and activate it on another account.
You can't activate it on anything but Verizon!
     
Big Mac
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Oct 13, 2010, 10:56 PM
 
I think it could be possible to activate a Verizon phone on MetroPCS. That is what was implied in store a few years ago at least.

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ThinkInsane
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Oct 14, 2010, 10:54 AM
 
Until I got my iPhone in January, I'd been a verizon customer since the early 90's. Every verizon phone I've owned, I've listed on craigslist (well, not the early ones, those just got donated to the local woman's shelter) when I've upgraded. Every one of those phones has sold within a day. And these phones that had automatic transmissions. With 90 million or so customers, it's not like there aren't plenty of people looking to buy used verizon phones. Being able to sell a phone to someone "anywhere in the world" doesn't really make a difference to a guy like me, that's just going to sell it locally anyway.

If they release a verizon iphone, I'll pick one up immediately and gladly pay an early termination fee to at&t. Resale value doesn't even play into that decision.
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Spheric Harlot
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Oct 14, 2010, 12:29 PM
 
Originally Posted by ThinkInsane View Post
Every one of those phones has sold within a day. And these phones that had automatic transmissions.
     
Big Mac
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Oct 14, 2010, 01:45 PM
 
I've been on Verizon for around 10 years now. I have yet to sell a handset. I hold on to them for years and usually they're just too old, the antennas are broken or the battery is in very poor condition by the time I'm ready to upgrade. However, I do have one Nokia bar phone from about six or seven years back that I keep stored and happens to perform very well when I need it (like if someone on my family plan temporarily loses a phone, for example). I haven't thought about selling an old phone until recently because it doesn't make as much sense to sell anything other than a smart phone. It's good to know others have success doing it on Verizon. Of course, if the rumors are true about the next version being hybrid CDMA/GSM, that model iPhone will be a pretty hot commodity in a secondary sale context (even though the use of micro-SIM is very annoying).

"The natural progress of things is for liberty to yield and government to gain ground." TJ
     
Spheric Harlot
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Oct 14, 2010, 02:20 PM
 
Originally Posted by Big Mac View Post
the use of micro-SIM is very annoying).
Naah. You can easily cut down a regular SIM. We have a little tool that will just stamp a microSIM out of an older-style one.
     
JMan09
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Oct 14, 2010, 04:01 PM
 
I sold my Motorola Droid in July for $250, and I got the day it came out back in November. I probably could have gotten a little more for it, but I just wanted to sell it. There's always going to be people that want a new/newer phone without signing a new contract that will buy these used phones. You just need to make sure you point out the network when selling a CDMA iPhone (when that time comes).
32GB iPad 2 | 32GB iPhone 4 | 11' MacBook Air 1.6 i5, 4GB, 128GB SSD
     
mduell
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Oct 14, 2010, 05:29 PM
 
Originally Posted by macintologist View Post
CDMA iPhone = worthless no-resale-value customer-confusion-inducing piece of junk.
Originally Posted by macintologist View Post
You can't activate it on anything but Verizon!
So much for that whole "no resale" bit.

The AT&T iPhone have the same carrier locking issue with an even more limited customer base. So I guess they're worthless too.
     
Big Mac
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Oct 14, 2010, 05:40 PM
 
But at least with AT&T it's GSM based and you have SIM cards you can change out. With Verizon you are more limited.

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anthology123
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Oct 15, 2010, 12:18 PM
 
What will happen with a mix of CDMA and GSM iPhone is people will be selling them on eBay and Craigslist, etc, and less informed people will have no idea of what they are buying and end up with a phone that will not work on the network of their choice. This has been going on for years with regular cell phones on the market, now the iPhone will join the ranks of cell phones that may or may not work. That is unless Apple is smart and come out with a combo iPhone that can function on both CDMA and GSM. I would bet that Verizon would never allow that to happen.
     
mduell
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Oct 15, 2010, 12:29 PM
 
Originally Posted by Big Mac View Post
But at least with AT&T it's GSM based and you have SIM cards you can change out. With Verizon you are more limited.
In what way?

AT&T iPhone: Can be used by any AT&T customer (well, with the right sized SIM), does not work on any other network without unsupported hacking.
Verizon iPhone: Can be used by any Verizon customer (call to activate), does not work on any other network without unsupported hacking.
     
Big Mac
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Oct 15, 2010, 03:49 PM
 
AT&T iPhone: Can be used by any AT&T customer. Can be used on most any other GSM network world-wide with third party software unlocking tools (which wouldn't even be as necessary if Apple weren't lame about unlocking from AT&T). SIM card interchangeability allows for considerable flexibility, with the caveat that one needs to rely on the underground community for enhanced functionality.

Verizon Only iPhone (CDMA-only theoretical model): Can be used by any Verizon customer (call to activate), with the very small possibility of it being supported by other CDMA networks (can't find any reference to porting handsets from Verizon on the MetroPCS site). Lack of SIM card interchangeability makes handset much less flexible than GSM counterparts.
( Last edited by Big Mac; Oct 15, 2010 at 03:59 PM. )

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mduell
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Oct 17, 2010, 11:12 AM
 
Ok, so we agree without resorting to unsupported hacks from random underground groups that break with every software release, the AT&T and Verizon iPhones have about the same resale value.
     
Big Mac
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Oct 17, 2010, 04:32 PM
 
Unsupported software hacks from random underground groups can be very useful. And the AT&T store employee who helped me with my no-contract activation had absolutely no qualms about my iPhone 3GS being jailbroken and unlocked. He readily admitted that the policy of not allowing for official iPhone unlocking after contract periods are over is particularly lame, given that AT&T will unlock any other handset except for the iPhone.

"The natural progress of things is for liberty to yield and government to gain ground." TJ
     
Spheric Harlot
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Oct 17, 2010, 05:06 PM
 
Jailbreaking is not an option, as it severely impacts ease of use (which is fundamentally tied to iTunes and its auto-updating.

In short, it is not possible to use it "normally" without having to get into the science of jailbreaking - keeping track of updates and incompatibilities and the like, rather than just clicking "okay".

That's geek country.
     
Big Mac
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Oct 17, 2010, 05:11 PM
 
I think we're talking about semi-geek country here anyway. Non-geeks don't really think about unlocked handsets and interchanging of SIMs.

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Spheric Harlot
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Oct 17, 2010, 05:40 PM
 
Non-geeks buy used iPhones and expect them to work.

In this country, that means putting in your own SIM card. There is no cellphone owner here who isn't aware of that much.

With a factory-unlocked or provider-unlocked phone, that is the simple non-geek reality.
     
macintologist  (op)
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Oct 14, 2011, 01:23 PM
 
I guess I was wrong.
     
   
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