[DoraExplorer]

My mini is due to ship around 8 MAR, but I'm beginning to get cold feet about the whole thing. The discussions on the Apple site about the noise and static on displays and bad experiences with displays in general--it's making me very nervous. It seems to affect VGA and DVI, most resolutions, all differents brands of monitors.

Am I overreacting? I really don't want to be stuck with something that doesn't work right out of the box. Can anybody with a new mini and a non-Apple LCD monitor reassure me that their monitor works oK above 1024x768?

[doopstr]

I ran the mini on my NEC LCD1765 at 1280x1024 for a few days. No problems. I ended up going back to 1024x768 just because my eyes suck. I have the same problem with PCs.

By the way, my monitor is not DVI capable, so I use the VGA adapter.

[turtle777]

90% of all VGA problems that I have read about where somehow on setups with KVM switches involved. Even though I asked here in the forum, so far I couldn't find anyone who had a problem with VGA and did NOT use a KVM.

I got my mini today. Once I hook it up tonight, I'll let you know if it works with an el cheapo LCD on VGA.

-t

[DoraExplorer]

Originally posted by doopstr:
I ran the mini on my NEC LCD1765 at 1280x1024 for a few days. No problems. I ended up going back to 1024x768 just because my eyes suck. I have the same problem with PCs.

By the way, my monitor is not DVI capable, so I use the VGA adapter.

That's a little encouraging, because I have an NEC LCD1735NXM, although it's a cheap cousin to the LCD1765. Mine is DVI/VGA, but I was hoping to use the DVI.

[zenatek]

My mac mini is hooked up via VGA and I have no problems what so ever. It is also an NEC CRT.

[jon l. dawson]

Using a Mac Mini 1.42 and Samsung 191T 19" DVI LCD at 1280x1024, works perfectly.

[daleok]

Originally posted by DoraExplorer:
My mini is due to ship around 8 MAR, but I'm beginning to get cold feet about the whole thing. The discussions on the Apple site about the noise and static on displays and bad experiences with displays in general--it's making me very nervous. It seems to affect VGA and DVI, most resolutions, all differents brands of monitors.

Am I overreacting? I really don't want to be stuck with something that doesn't work right out of the box. Can anybody with a new mini and a non-Apple LCD monitor reassure me that their monitor works oK above 1024x768?

Have been using my mac mini, 1.42, for the past week with a Belkin KVM and a 19" Mag CRT monitor. Have had no problems with the display or switching back and forth. Go for it. You'll enjoy the mini.

[Earsly]

I'm using mine with a 20 inch widescreen (Dell 2005FPW). Everything is perfect!

[elvis2000]

Originally posted by turtle777:
90% of all VGA problems that I have read about where somehow on setups with KVM switches involved. Even though I asked here in the forum, so far I couldn't find anyone who had a problem with VGA and did NOT use a KVM.

I got my mini today. Once I hook it up tonight, I'll let you know if it works with an el cheapo LCD on VGA.

-t

WRONG. The VGA is out of VESA spec. This is well documented, and I've seen it with my own eyes. Very dim and especially blurry at high resolutions (1280 x 1024 and above). I would not recommend using the Mini's VGA out.

On DVI, it depends on the monitor. People claim that this can be replicated on the PC by enabling/disabling ATI's "alternate DVI mode". However, this mode is not available in ATI's OS X drivers. Therefore, it just depends on your monitor.

I had the problem with a Viewsonic vp201s (vp201b), and did not with a Dell 2005FPW. I would check the Apple support forums (where there is much conversation about this issue) and take note of the monitors people are having success with. I ordered my Dell 2005FPW after reading that it would work.

[turtle777]

Originally posted by elvis2000:
WRONG. The VGA is out of VESA spec. This is well documented, and I've seen it with my own eyes. Very dim and especially blurry at high resolutions (1280 x 1024 and above). I would not recommend using the Mini's VGA out.

Dude, wrong WHAT ?

Did I say it was conforming to the VESA specs ? No !
Did I say there are no problems ? No !

I just said that I (I: that's ME, not the general public) haven't heard of a lot of people that have problems with VGA and are NOT using a KVM.

And for the record: my mini has no problems with a cheap VGA LCD either.

-t

[WoD]

It seems the trouble with many forums is that you only see peoples PROBLEMS and not their successes. Particularly the Apple Discussion forums.

What we need is another one of those sucess stories threads where people post working hardware combinations. Then again - even working combinations do not work for everyone!

[elvis2000]

Originally posted by turtle777:
Dude, wrong WHAT ?

Did I say it was conforming to the VESA specs ? No !
Did I say there are no problems ? No !

I just said that I (I: that's ME, not the general public) haven't heard of a lot of people that have problems with VGA and are NOT using a KVM.

And for the record: my mini has no problems with a cheap VGA LCD either.

-t

You stated a fact, that 90% of problems are related to KVM switches. That is wrong. The problem is due to the Mini itself.

[elvis2000]

Originally posted by WoD:
It seems the trouble with many forums is that you only see peoples PROBLEMS and not their successes. Particularly the Apple Discussion forums.

What we need is another one of those sucess stories threads where people post working hardware combinations. Then again - even working combinations do not work for everyone!

The out-of-spec VESA problem is not an isolated, randonly occuring, problem. It is an issue with every Mini out of the box. Anyone that doesn't notice a dim display via VGA out is probably not used to anything better (which Apple is counting on).

JW

[WoD]

Originally posted by elvis2000:
The out-of-spec VESA problem is not an isolated, randonly occuring, problem. It is an issue with every Mini out of the box. Anyone that doesn't notice a dim display via VGA out is probably not used to anything better (which Apple is counting on).

JW

Okay, I have absolutely no idea why you quoted me when stating that - but it is useful information nevertheless. I am currently using my TFT (bought for mini) with my laptop on VGA out, and a mate is giving me a cheapo out-of-a-box DVI cable to I can use it in DVI mode. So ultimately it will not be a problem for me - I will still try with VGA out of interest, though.

At some point I would like to hook the mini to a lilliput 8" Touch Screen TFT - now that would probably be asking for trouble!

[turtle777]

Originally posted by elvis2000:
You stated a fact, that 90% of problems are related to KVM switches. That is wrong. The problem is due to the Mini itself.

Dude, learn to read first

Originally posted by turtle777:
90% of all VGA problems that I have read about

-t

[DoraExplorer]

Originally posted by WoD:

What we need is another one of those sucess stories threads where people post working hardware combinations.

That's kind of why I asked in this thread if anyone could reassure me. All I had read about were the problems, and I was getting very nervous. I'm still a little concerned, but after reading the responses here, I don't think I'll cancel my order.

[turtle777]

Originally posted by DoraExplorer:
That's kind of why I asked in this thread if anyone could reassure me. All I had read about were the problems, and I was getting very nervous. I'm still a little concerned, but after reading the responses here, I don't think I'll cancel my order.

As long as your expectations are nor UNREASONABLE, you won't be disappointed. If you think your $ 500 Mac mini will perform like a G5 PowerMac then you'll probably have a fit...

-t

[DoraExplorer]

Originally posted by turtle777:
As long as your expectations are nor UNREASONABLE, you won't be disappointed. If you think your $ 500 Mac mini will perform like a G5 PowerMac then you'll probably have a fit...

-t

Hmm, well I've never used a G5 PowerMac, but how about a G4 1GHz eMac? I know that when I compared the mini and the iMac at Compusa, the iMac seemed much snappier. But the mini was pretty much like my eMac.

[brentsg]

Originally posted by turtle777:
As long as your expectations are nor UNREASONABLE, you won't be disappointed. If you think your $ 500 Mac mini will perform like a G5 PowerMac then you'll probably have a fit...

-t

Expecting the video signal that the mini produces to work properly with 99% of standard VGA monitors is not UNREASONABLE. No, the PERFORMANCE of the unit will not be competitive with a G5.

There is no reason to produce a computer that has non-standard VGA output.

B

[elvis2000]

Originally posted by brentsg:
Expecting the video signal that the mini produces to work properly with 99% of standard VGA monitors is not UNREASONABLE. No, the PERFORMANCE of the unit will not be competitive with a G5.

There is no reason to produce a computer that has non-standard VGA output.

B

Question: how does the Mini's VGA out compare to the eMac/iBook? Way back in the day I hooked my iBook to a 17" NEC CRT and found the display to be dim and "washed out". Didn't think much of it at the time, as it was a temporary solution to the failed iBook LCD.

Permanent solution: bought a 12" Powerbook (Rev A palm heating pad edition)

Elvis

[iREZ]

Did you try calibrating the display and your settings. You could never expect your diplay to show vibrant colors without changing the settings on both your display and your computer.

[mak_attack]

hi iRez

i hear the term calibrating the display and your settings being said a lot.

what does this mean exactly. i am awaiting delivery of my new tft.

what would i need to do when i get it for it to show good colours and not be dull?

thanks,

[jasonsRX7]

Originally posted by mak_attack:
what would i need to do when i get it for it to show good colours and not be dull?

It'll probably look good right out of the box, but if you take time to calibrate it, you'll usually see a notable improvement. Text will be sharper, color banding will be reduced... Lots of people don't know what they're missing by not calibrating, but once you see the difference you'll always do it.

[turtle777]

Originally posted by mak_attack:
what does this mean exactly. i am awaiting delivery of my new tft.

what would i need to do when i get it for it to show good colours and not be dull?

On Mac OS 10.x: open "System Preferences" and click "Displays". Click the "Color tab", then click "Calibrate". The Display Calibrator Assistant walks you through calibrating your display.

If you want to go the more expensive route, you can buy extra hardware that measures you monitor and creates a color profile. I think, in your case, the onboard calibration will be good enough.

Here some links (as always, Google is your friend ):

http://trikuare.cx/art/tut/gamma/
http://www.allan-der.com/calibration/

-t

[turtle777]

Originally posted by brentsg:
There is no reason to produce a computer that has non-standard VGA output.

Agreed.

So here are my options:
Buy a Dell that sucks all the way, including XP, or get a Mac mini, that is great and might need some calibration to get a good VGA picture ?

Sounds like a no brainer to me !

-t

[elvis2000]

Originally posted by turtle777:
Agreed.

So here are my options:
Buy a Dell that sucks all the way, including XP, or get a Mac mini, that is great and might need some calibration to get a good VGA picture ?

Sounds like a no brainer to me !

-t

Be warned, Turtle. Calibration will *not* achieve desired results on the Mini. I tried several times when attempting to gain a quality signal (VGA) with my Viewsonic vp201s.

Calibration, unfortunately, can't "mask" inferior analog video quality.

Your other "no brainer" option, which you didn't mention, would be to get a DVI capable monitor. Just make sure it is one compatible with with Mini's finicky DVI interface.

[turtle777]

Originally posted by elvis2000:
Be warned, Turtle. Calibration will *not* achieve desired results on the Mini. I tried several times when attempting to gain a quality signal (VGA) with my Viewsonic vp201s.

Well, my el cheapo $ 190 17" Wintergreen LCD with VGA has no problems.

-t

[brentsg]

Originally posted by turtle777:
Well, my el cheapo $ 190 17" Wintergreen LCD with VGA has no problems.
-t

So if your monitor has no problems then no ones will? Is that how it works?

B

[DoraExplorer]

Originally posted by turtle777:
Well, my el cheapo $ 190 17" Wintergreen LCD with VGA has no problems.

-t

Thanks T.
I went back to Compusa today to look at the Macs. They have a mini hooked up to an on-sale, "entry-level," off-brand 17' VGA monitor. I thought it looked fine! And in a store full of PCs I had plenty to compare it with.

And I did go to the system preferences to see if they had calibrated it. Sure enough! And when I clicked on the default setup, it did look washed out.

If my mini looks and works as well as the one at Compusa, I'll be very happy. And it only had 256 MB, and I'll have 1GB.

[Kyros]

Originally posted by brentsg:
So if your monitor has no problems then no ones will? Is that how it works?

B

Stop being such an irritable asshole. The topic is to explain your experience with the mini. So far everyone's post has been positive, except yours and elvis's. You can stop spouting your drivel now please.

[thebobs]

Originally posted by DoraExplorer:
That's a little encouraging, because I have an NEC LCD1735NXM, although it's a cheap cousin to the LCD1765. Mine is DVI/VGA, but I was hoping to use the DVI.

I have 2 minis attached to 2 NEC LCD1735 displays via DVI cable ($15 from Newegg). Both look great and exhibit no issues. I don't think you have anything to worry about.

[turtle777]

Originally posted by brentsg:
So if your monitor has no problems then no ones will? Is that how it works?B

Exactly right. It's called MacNN seniority

-t

[JasonA]

Mine looks fine unless I run the Dino game thing that's included. That makes the screen full of static. Other programs, including that included marble game, look fine. Anyone know what the deal is?

I was just going to sell this anyway, but I don't want a buyer to be unhappy with me. BTW, how does Apple support handle service for a secondhand buyer?

[jon l. dawson]

Originally posted by JasonA:
Mine looks fine unless I run the Dino game thing that's included. That makes the screen full of static. Other programs, including that included marble game, look fine. Anyone know what the deal is?

Not sure, maybe you should open a thread about it, I think the game.. hold on, let me try it again to be sure.. yeah, it's working fine.

Make sure you're selecting a supported resolution when starting up the game. If you're using an lcd, check your manual to be sure, but you probably want a res that's at 60hz.

[vinster]

Originally posted by elvis2000:
WRONG. The VGA is out of VESA spec. This is well documented, and I've seen it with my own eyes. Very dim and especially blurry at high resolutions (1280 x 1024 and above). I would not recommend using the Mini's VGA out.

I have the mini hooked up via VGA to my Philips 17" widescreen TV at 1280x768 and it looks great.

[elvis2000]

Originally posted by turtle777:
Well, my el cheapo $ 190 17" Wintergreen LCD with VGA has no problems.

-t

... by your standards.

[elvis2000]

Originally posted by Kyros:
Stop being such an irritable asshole. The topic is to explain your experience with the mini. So far everyone's post has been positive, except yours and elvis's. You can stop spouting your drivel now please.

MacFixIt and the Apple support forums will clear up your distorted reality problem within 15 minutes.

[b11051973]

I've got my mini hooked up to an 18" Dell LCD at 1280x1024. This is hooked up by DVI. I haven't noticed a single problem with my mini. It's an awesome little computer. Definitely faster than my 12" PowerBook at 867 Mhz.

[jon l. dawson]

Originally posted by elvis2000:
... by your standards.

which clearly are not as sophisticated as yours. You are really something special.

[jon l. dawson]

Originally posted by elvis2000:
MacFixIt and the Apple support forums will clear up your distorted reality problem within 15 minutes.

That's funny, except that you are the one spending your time here on a Apple support forum, discussing a product you don't even like.

No one's denying that there are problems with the Mini, are they? But common sense applies; it does appear that this display issue is not affecting the majority of owners. I hope there is some fix soon, or a response from Apple, because it must be frustrating to be in that situation. At the same time, I don't think it warrants avoiding this product, because for everyone one of you there are many more like me who are very satisfied with their Mini.

[MrGoo]

Originally posted by jon l. dawson:
which clearly are not as sophisticated as yours. You are really something special.

Elvis... You are wasting your time. I really wish I understood the mac crowd, why are they so defensive? It's freaking obvious if you read the apple forums that there is a real problem. It's not in our heads, it's not an attack against those who own macs. Apple made a mistake.. clear and simple. You either get it or you don't. News flash for you Zealots, you can put a bow on a Mac Mini but it's still a Mac mini with out vesa spec video output.

[hudson1]

Originally posted by elvis2000:
... by your standards.

Well, just what are your standards? Real info, please, not just more of the "I don't like it" or "it doesn't feel like my PC" stuff.

More important, what made you think that the Mac mini met or exceeded your standards before you bought it? Did you bother to check or was this just an impulse purchase that went sour, causing you to blame everyone but yourself?

[elvis2000]

Originally posted by jon l. dawson:
That's funny, except that you are the one spending your time here on a Apple support forum, discussing a product you don't even like.

I see. So everyone here must like everything Apple designs? I can't enjoy my Powerbook for what it is, but also complain that Apple doesn't satisfy my home computing needs? This isn't legit?

I didn't realize this was a cult-forum, I thought it was a hardware support forum. Silly me.

No one's denying that there are problems with the Mini, are they?

Quite a few people, actually

But common sense applies; it does appear that this display issue is not affecting the majority of owners.

So therefore it is OK? Therefore it is acceptable? The display problem is a significant issue, and is evidence of Apple's sliding quality standards.

I hope there is some fix soon, or a response from Apple, because it must be frustrating to be in that situation.

Not even a response! While I believe the distorted video problem on a large percentage of DVI monitors will be fixed eventually (probably with Tiger), the out of spec VESA is clearly *by design* as Apple knows the majority of their users won't care/won't notice/will be accepting.

At the same time, I don't think it warrants avoiding this product, because for everyone one of you there are many more like me who are very satisfied with their Mini.

Why not? Its not like video card is expanadable. For people that require a crisp, clear, analog output at high res the Mini will be a disappointment. Try running your mini at 1600x1200 in VGA and tell me you are satisfied.

[elvis2000]

Originally posted by hudson1:
Well, just what are your standards? Real info, please, not just more of the "I don't like it" or "it doesn't feel like my PC" stuff.

More important, what made you think that the Mac mini met or exceeded your standards before you bought it? Did you bother to check or was this just an impulse purchase that went sour, causing you to blame everyone but yourself?

LOL. I assumed that the video quality would not be dim and washed out. I assumed that the basics were covered. Don't be so pompus. I even *bought a new monitor* to accomodate the Mini's shortcomings. I owned a Viewsonic vp201s. The DVi suffered from the distorted video problem (well documented), so I switched to VGA. The VGA at 1600x1200 was washed out, dull, and out of "focus". I calibrated. I checked the settings. I calibrated some more.

So in reading all about the same problems others were experiencing on the Apple support forums, I *bought* a Dell 2005FPW and sold the Viewsonic on eBay. Paid $1100 for the Viewsonic back in June, sold it for $700. Just to accomodate the Mini's shortcomings.

The mini worked fine in DVI mode with the Dell. Good thing, because VGA output on the Mini is unacceptable at high resolutions.

I'm not the only one. It is well documented on many Internet forums. Don't act so arrogantly clueless as if these problems don't exist. These are real problems that others are likely to also experience if they also plan on running the mini in VGA at high res, or plan on running one of the many incompatible monitors.

[hudson1]

OK, the Viewsonic didn't work well at 1600 X 1200 in VGA mode which is probably a higher resolution than VGA is designed for. How do you know that the main problem isn't with the monitor's D to A converter? Regardless, you sold the thing for $700 and bought a vastly superior monitor (2005FPW) for probably less than $700 (it's been offered for at low as $507). You say the Dell works fine in DVI mode with the mini. So ultimately you made money on the monitor exchange and the mini/Dell combo works fine. What am I missing?

If I'm "arrogantly clueless" it's because you still haven't answered my questions or told anyone how your final setup with the Dell monitor is less than optimal.

[thebobs]

Originally posted by brentsg:
So if your monitor has no problems then no ones will? Is that how it works?

B

Same difference brentsg, so if your monitor DOESN'T work then no ones will?

[thebobs]

This thread is starting to resemble the mini discussion area at Apple, there are around a dozen people with what appear to be 2 distinct video issues (dim VGA output or staticy/distorted DVI output) who are convinced EVERYONE has a video issue and the end of the world is up on us. You can site dozens of examples of success for them and they just ignore it, somewhat out of frustration but I think largely out of ignorance.

Just like those discussions, anyone who is affected by this problem is convinced they are right, the mini should be recalled and there is no way anyone has a succesful configuration. They are willing to ignore that Apple has sold hundreds of thousands of mini units and that if this was an epidemic there were be far more complaints/evidence. The same group of people post over and over, replying to each others misery and by outward appearance there seems to be an epidemic, but a little closer inspection shows it's the same people repeating themselves.

And a quick scan of user names shows what? They are the same people in this thread posting the negative comments.

[elvis2000]

Originally posted by hudson1:
OK, the Viewsonic didn't work well at 1600 X 1200 in VGA mode which is probably a higher resolution than VGA is designed for. How do you know that the main problem isn't with the monitor's D to A converter?

"VGA" video cards have been running at 1600x1200 for quite a while now. And the Viewsonic had been working fine with the VGA out on my "cheap" HP.

Regardless, you sold the thing for $700 and bought a vastly superior monitor (2005FPW) for probably less than $700 (it's been offered for at low as $507).

I wouldn't say "vastly" superior to the vp201s. They are comparable except for the wide-aspect. It was a good trade, though

You say the Dell works fine in DVI mode with the mini. So ultimately you made money on the monitor exchange and the mini/Dell combo works fine. What am I missing?

Nothing. I "fixed" the problem for myself. But it still doesn't make it right that Apple is launching out of spec products.

If I'm "arrogantly clueless" it's because you still haven't answered my questions or told anyone how your final setup with the Dell monitor is less than optimal.

Worked great. Doesn't make it right, though, that the mini suffers from two *major* video problems right out of the box.

[elvis2000]

Originally posted by thebobs:


And a quick scan of user names shows what? They are the same people in this thread posting the negative comments.

I have a 12" Powerbook that doesn't burn my palms. Doesn't mean others didn't have this problem, doesn't mean that it wasn't a significant problem.

A buddy of mine has a 15" Powerbook (Rev A) with no white spots. Doesn't mean others didn't have the same problem.

G5 iMacs are loud and like to overheat. But not all do.

Fact it, conventional wisdom is to avoid Rev A Apple product. Many do, and are smart for doing so. Others don't. But don't deny the fact that the Mini is no exception to this rule.

[thebobs]

Originally posted by elvis2000:
I have a 12" Powerbook that doesn't burn my palms. Doesn't mean others didn't have this problem, doesn't mean that it wasn't a significant problem.

A buddy of mine has a 15" Powerbook (Rev A) with no white spots. Doesn't mean others didn't have the same problem.

G5 iMacs are loud and like to overheat. But not all do.

Fact it, conventional wisdom is to avoid Rev A Apple product. Many do, and are smart for doing so. Others don't. But don't deny the fact that the Mini is no exception to this rule.

I never said there wasn't an issue, only that it was not the "epidemic" you and others are painting it to be.

I had or have a Rev a iMac DV, iBook G4 and now 2 Mac minis, all with zero issues (even though each of these products had a small number of issues reported immediately upon release). Does that mean that no one who owns those Rev A products didn't have an issue (early iMac DVs had heat issues, iBook G4s had saggy batteries and lumpy keyboards, the mini video issues you are aware of)? Of course not. Does it mean that the whole "conventional wisdom says to avoid Rev A Apple products" is rubbish? Yes, the total number of of users with bad machines is a small group compared to total number of units sold. I only need point to the eMac as a great example, this machine has a terrible reputation for video issues but millions have been sold and are in use without issue.

Face it, you have an issue with your mini and you want to create a crisis environment to bring attention to your issue. While this is somewhat understandable, I refuse to buy in to "Chicken Little" warnings about a product which is working perfectly for myself and several friends, as well as the units used in numerous reviews and store demos I have seen. I have not seen enough evidence to say that the mini is a flawed product at an design/engineering level. Clearly some units in the field have an issue, but I do not believe it is the majority of them.

I hope Apple addresses your issue, but if you want someone to listen you have to cut out the hyperbole and anecdotal evidence and stick to the facts.