[freudling]

Originally Posted by besson3c 

Well, since there is no real way to identify those who are not tolerating and co-existing and attempting to remove those identified will surely have all sorts of consequences, why not just simply promote a general sense of tolerance and co-existing? This seems like the ultimate solution.

Those areas without the population distributions you speak of are not necessarily any better at tolerating and co-existing, and the intolerant are often ignorant which too has its own set of problems.

I live in an interesting environment that is a combination of many cultures, as well as a bunch of good ol' salt-of-the-Earth Indiana hoosier types that while many have hearts of gold, their viewpoints/experiences/perspectives can be very narrow and limited. This is different than being disagreeable, there is nothing wrong with these people, but it's sort of like knowing that you can't talk about technology and stuff you care about with your grandparents because they just can't have that conversation with you, you know?

I suppose that sounds elitist or something, but whatever, I happen to think that the variety of viewpoints, religions, traditions, cuisine, political environment, social class, etc. makes a place worthwhile inhabiting. I don't think that after living where you have, Athens, that you'd be happy living in a place that is culturally bankrupt.

Have you considered this flip side?

You keep pushing this ideological crap. Yes, besson3c, we know what multi-culturism means. We know how to be tolerant. We've been doing it for years. You just ignore all this data posted, and the emerging outcry of Canadians, all over Canada, about this issue. It is an issue. And it's its own problem, different and outside of the US.

10 gunned down on the west end, Iranian gang associated, again. Man shot in car in October outside Metrotown Mall, his little son was in the seat next to him. Iranian gang associated. Hate crimes all over the place, East Indians involved in many of them. Machete attacks... many of them each year, as can be seen from FOIA request documents by VPD and RCMP. East Indians permitted to carry machetes on their persons because of religion.

On and on. Stop being incredulous, and wake up.

Oh, and didn't you all love how the Sikh community rallied and argued that the Canadian national anthem for the olympics should be sung in Punjab as well? And there was a big uproar over that.

The outcry became an outcry over just the past few years. Before, it was hush, hush. The data is overwhelming: visible minority groups are responsible for major crime. Statistics Canada, and the stock of news articles covering crime will show you that, without question, in many areas in Canada.

One thing Athens is focussing on, one part of the problem, is that Vancouver is absolutely overran with Asians.

Canada has over double the number of Asians per 100 people compared to the US, and growing. Over 60% of our immigration intact each year comes from Asia.

Vancouver is one example of immigration gone completely wrong. It's riddled with hate and violent crimes attributed to visible minorities, and is a city, a major metropolitan city in Canada, with the majority of the population being Asian.

Edmonton is also inflating with Asians. We are worried that intact being so high from just 1 region will end up skewing our national population to more Asians than any other group.

How would you feel if you touched down in New York and 40% of the population were Asian?

Forget calling us the black kettle... some Asians are even leaving Vancouver because there are too many Asians here.

How would you feel if you were Asian, to return home to Hong Kong, and 40% of the population were white, with 37% Asian, and the rest a big mix?

How would you feel if the whites were putting up signs in English only, and you couldn't read them? How would you feel if the whites were pushing for their own school curriculum in the schools, and their own language? How would you feel if they were racist toward you?

The problems with multi-culturism run wide and deep in this country. The Asian Invasion in Vancouver is just the tip of the iceberg. We need immigration policy reform to stop the flood of Asians in this country; to mitigate the number of foreign criminals on our soil; to reduce the threat of terrorism from flagged areas (reduce number of refugee claimants); adopt a more melting pot doctrine so to mitigate all the infighting and hate between groups both on a personal level and at work... and many more reasons.

Even immigrants themselves are supporting immigration reform.

Home Page | Centre for Immigration Policy Reform

[besson3c]

I don't understand this outrage, I frankly think it's kind of dumb.

There are hate crimes all over the place:

Table 12 - Hate Crime Statistics 2009
Table 1 - Hate Crime Statistics 2009

These occur in states with a lot of different races, and states with few. There are all different kinds of hate crimes, all sorts of different victims, all sorts of different population centers. I think making the claim that there is a relationship between immigration patterns and these crimes is murky, and probably futile.

What is in common here is ignorance, poor education, poverty, crime problems, etc. *This* is the heart of the matter and is what is worth fussing over. Deal with the root cause.

[freudling]

Originally Posted by besson3c 

i don't understand this outrage, i frankly think it's kind of dumb.

There are hate crimes all over the place:

table 12 - hate crime statistics 2009
table 1 - hate crime statistics 2009

these occur in states with a lot of different races, and states with few. There are all different kinds of hate crimes, all sorts of different victims, all sorts of different population centers. I think making the claim that there is a relationship between immigration patterns and these crimes is murky, and probably futile.

What is in common here is ignorance, poor education, poverty, crime problems, etc. *this* is the heart of the matter and is what is worth fussing over.

We're talking about Canada and its immigration problems and you post US statistics. Lol.

Ignore...

Anybody else from Vancouver?

[besson3c]

Originally Posted by freudling 

We're talking about Canada and its immigration problems and you post US statistics. Lol.

Reread the subject of this thread, and please drop the needless hostility. If you want to make the case that the problems in Canada are fundamentally different than they are anywhere else, that would be an interesting argument.

[Wiskedjak]

Originally Posted by freudling 

We're talking about Canada and its immigration problems and you post US statistics. Lol.

Have you read the title of this thread recently? The OP connected immigration in the US with immigration in Canada from the very first sentence.

[freudling]

Originally Posted by Wiskedjak 

Have you read the title of this thread recently? The OP connected immigration in the US with immigration in Canada from the very first sentence.

The problems are unique to Canada. Never did I ever say anything about the US. You're confounding US statistics with Canadian statistics.

That's what the current ream of posts has been about: Canada. I realize the original topic was about the US and Canada. Of course, if you've been reading this thread lately, you'll see the conversation has swung, and we're talking about Canada very specifically. Nothing I have said, anyway, do I feel would map over to the US.

I don't know enough about crime stats, demographics, etc. to be talking about the US in this context anyway.

[Doofy]

Here's a related sort of story:
CNN.com - Race fears spark�St. George ban - Oct 4, 2005

LONDON, England (CNN) -- British prison officers who wore a St. George's Cross tie-pin have been ticked off by the jails watchdog over concerns about the symbol's racist connotations.
...
Chris Doyle, director of the Council for the Advancement of Arab-British Understanding, said Tuesday the red cross was an insensitive reminder of the Crusades.

"A lot of Muslims and Arabs view the Crusades as a bloody episode in our history," he told CNN. "They see those campaigns as Christendom launching a brutal holy war against Islam.

The St George Cross is the flag of the country:


So, let's bend over backwards for immigrants who're also criminals. Never mind that they chose to come to a country with this flag... ...they also managed to land themselves in prison. And we still bend over.

[freudling]

Originally Posted by Doofy 

Here's a related sort of story:
CNN.com - Race fears spark�St. George ban - Oct 4, 2005


The St George Cross is the flag of the country:


So, let's bend over backwards for immigrants who're also criminals. Never mind that they chose to come to a country with this flag... ...they also managed to land themselves in prison. And we still bend over.

Good point.

And to any American. Don't even say that your country is accommodating, you have a melting pot policy to immigration. And even if you don't agree with it, the war in Afghanistan and Iraq cost hundreds of thousands of civilian lives.

The US used evidence that the war against the US from the terrorist's perspective was religiously based. Because of this, the UN was more accommodating of their will to attack Afghanistan, even though, in the end, the UN did not really agree to the attack on Afghanistan, nor did they really agree to the attack on Iraq.

The US did what it wanted, and the US media was riddled with references to combating a holy war. Combating religious tyrants.

Is there bias in the US toward people from the middle-east? Is it justified?

I'm sure I wouldn't be the only one to answer yes. And with my background, I know that more protected policies on immigration and military discriminate against people from the middle-east.

And I'm glad because there's reality, and then there's make believe internet forum people waving their hands...

[Eug]

Heh, one could just as easily argue that Coquitlam was overrun by hick whites until Asians started evening up the numbers.

Now we just need more Africans or West Indians or whatever to move to BC. Vancouver could do with some better (stereotypical) jerk chicken.

P.S. Prince George named Canada's worst crime-ridden city

Prince George, B.C.
Victoria, B.C.
Regina, Sask.
Saskatoon, Sask.
Fort McMurray, Alta.
Kelowna, B.C.
Grande Prairie, Alta.
Surrey, B.C.
Chilliwack, B.C.
Winnipeg, Man.

Out of those, only Surrey really stands out as a place with tons of Asians. The others tend to be much more Caucasian.

BTW, Toronto, a VERY multicultural city with tons of Asians ranks 57th on the list. Calgary, which isn't particularly multicultural but more so than most on that list, ranks # 55. Meanwhile, Red Nec... err... Red Deer ranks 11th.

The only one that surprised me on the list was Victoria.

[Wiskedjak]

Originally Posted by Eug 

The only one that surprised me on the list was Victoria.

Seriously. Who knew that old people could be so much trouble?

[Eug]

Prince George named Canada's worst crime-ridden city: Survey - Yahoo! News

According to Maclean’s, sleepy Victoria is No. 2 on the crime charts, with 81 per cent more crime than the national average.

But Victoria police department spokesman Sgt. Grant Hamilton challenged the figures, saying they didn’t take into account a number of factors.

“Victoria is a very safe city,” he said. “You can walk around downtown and go out at night time. We don’t have a large number of drive-by shootings or gang activity.”

He said that Maclean’s uses a Statistics Canada “Crime Severity Index,” which factors in incarceration rates and jail sentences.

Victoria police welcome reports on minor incidents like car break-ins that other police departments refuse, he noted.

As well, Victoria has a population of 100,000 — but 350,000 people use the downtown and entertainment district.

“We have night clubs, social service providers, halfway houses, low-income housing and all the entertainment district,” he said. “Everyone comes downtown.”

Kelowna RCMP Supt. Bill McKinnon said Maclean’s statistics “are taken out of context,” and took issue with putting Kelowna at No. 6 in Canada, 65 per cent above the national average.

He said Kelowna has a population of 120,000 and noted that Maclean’s set its rates per 100,000 people.

“We annually have 1.2 million tourists that come to our community every year,” said McKinnon. “The statistics don’t take that into account.”

---

So, that may account for Victoria and Kelowna being on the list. However, basically nobody visits Prince George. It's crime ridden all on its own, and is very un-Asian.

BTW, Vancouver proper is 18th, but I wonder just how much of that is down along East Hastings, etc.

The very, very Asian Richmond is 44th on the list.

[imitchellg5]

Originally Posted by freudling 

Good point.

And to any American. Don't even say that your country is accommodating, you have a melting pot policy to immigration. And even if you don't agree with it, the war in Afghanistan and Iraq cost hundreds of thousands of civilian lives.

At least a million, likely more.

[freudling]

Originally Posted by Eug 

Heh, one could just as easily argue that Coquitlam was overrun by hick whites until Asians started evening up the numbers.

Now we just need more Africans or West Indians or whatever to move to BC. Vancouver could do with some better (stereotypical) jerk chicken.

P.S. Prince George named Canada's worst crime-ridden city

Prince George, B.C.
Victoria, B.C.
Regina, Sask.
Saskatoon, Sask.
Fort McMurray, Alta.
Kelowna, B.C.
Grande Prairie, Alta.
Surrey, B.C.
Chilliwack, B.C.
Winnipeg, Man.

Out of those, only Surrey really stands out as a place with tons of Asians. The others tend to be much more Caucasian.

BTW, Toronto, a VERY multicultural city with tons of Asians ranks 57th on the list. Calgary, which isn't particularly multicultural but more so than most on that list, ranks # 55. Meanwhile, Red Nec... err... Red Deer ranks 11th.

The only one that surprised me on the list was Victoria.

I've read the number of violent crimes, that is total number of violent crimes. It's highest in Surrey. We're not talking about comparing to a national average. But that's what Macleans did. We're talking a running total of different types of crime per year, and comparing them to other areas.

Then there's Vancouver, a comparison more in line with Macleans:

Gun crime in Metro Vancouver highest per capita in Canada

By the way, I've actually lived in several of those cities posted above...

Prince George is an interesting city. It's full of Aboriginals, and they have typically been the ones engaging in armed robberies. Prince George also has had an insanely high unemployment rate.

In addition, it's a haven for Hells Angels. These problems parlay upon themselves... into the crime that you see there.

[Eug]

Originally Posted by freudling 

Prince George is an interesting city. It's full of Aboriginals, and they have typically been the ones engaging in armed robberies. Prince George also has had an insanely high unemployment rate.

And no Asians.

[Wiskedjak]

Originally Posted by freudling 

In addition, it's a haven for Hells Angels. These problems parlay upon themselves... into the crime that you see there.

I hate all of those immigrant Hell's Angels.

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by Wiskedjak 

I hate all of those immigrant Hell's Angels.

You hate the Mongols? Don't let them hear you say that!

[freudling]

Originally Posted by Eug 

And no Asians.

This is your logic. Because a city of 95,000 people that has a lot of crime doesn't have a lot of Asians, therefore, there is no problem with immigration in Canada. That, therefore, there is no problem with Asians and crime in Canada. That there is no problem with certain groups immigrating to Canada.

The idiot meter raises up...

[Wiskedjak]

Originally Posted by freudling 

This is your logic. Because a city of 95,000 people that has a lot of crime doesn't have a lot of Asians, therefore, there is no problem with immigration in Canada. That, therefore, there is no problem with Asians and crime in Canada. That there is no problem with certain groups immigrating to Canada.

The idiot meter raises up...

Isn't it your argument that immigrants are responsible for high crime rates?

[freudling]

Originally Posted by Wiskedjak 

Isn't it your argument that immigrants are responsible for high crime rates?

You should take a logic class. Yes, that is. But it's not even an argument. It's data. Go back through these posts and look at the stats posted. There's no argument or question about it.

The problems in Prince George do not take away from these data nationally.

[Eug]

We're just saying you're full of it, that's all.

Yeah, Surrey is bad, but Richmond isn't. Go figure.

[freudling]

Originally Posted by Eug 

We're just saying you're full of it, that's all.

Yeah, Surrey is bad, but Richmond isn't. Go figure.

No Richmond isn't bad. It's only been home to wealthy organized crime figures, including an international arms dealer.

And now your spinning this into just an Asian thing. My point all along has been that immigration in Canada is in a crisis for a variety of reasons.

Go do some real research instead of quoting 1 or 2 articles and come back and talk about it. Until then, you're full of it.

[Athens]

Originally Posted by besson3c 

Well, since there is no real way to identify those who are not tolerating and co-existing and attempting to remove those identified will surely have all sorts of consequences, why not just simply promote a general sense of tolerance and co-existing? This seems like the ultimate solution.

Or Screen people for suitability, and educate potential new citizens as part of the proccess.

I live in an interesting environment that is a combination of many cultures, as well as a bunch of good ol' salt-of-the-Earth Indiana hoosier types that while many have hearts of gold, their viewpoints/experiences/perspectives can be very narrow and limited. This is different than being disagreeable, there is nothing wrong with these people, but it's sort of like knowing that you can't talk about technology and stuff you care about with your grandparents because they just can't have that conversation with you, you know?

I suppose that sounds elitist or something, but whatever, I happen to think that the variety of viewpoints, religions, traditions, cuisine, political environment, social class, etc. makes a place worthwhile inhabiting. I don't think that after living where you have, Athens, that you'd be happy living in a place that is culturally bankrupt.

Have you considered this flip side?

Variety good, thats not what is going on. I think your missing the point and assuming there is variety. No, its complete and total transformation not variety. Its not a community of some Greeks, some Russians, some Turks, some Cubans. Its 65% Asian (more in some areas) and everything else that makes up the world is the rest. That isn't variety. Thats a problem.

[besson3c]

So you'd simply like to adjust the immigration quotas?

[Athens]

Originally Posted by Eug 

The funny thing is that I'm actually from out west (Saskatchewan), and find Toronto a heluvalot more inclusive than Vancouver.

In Toronto: You're from Vancouver? Great, welcome!
In Vancouver: You're from Toronto? OMG, you suck, unless you've seen the light and moved here.

If anything, I think Vancouver is a LOT more self-centred than Toronto. I just don't understand it. I'm not saying Toronto is never self-centred because some here can be, but trust me, Vancouver is a lot worse. And, every one of my friends from Calgary and Saskatchewan who visited me here actually liked it a lot.

BTW, while I wouldn't live in certain parts of Surrey, I'd rather live in White Rock than say Coquitlam. I lived in North Van though. Getting downtown was a major pain.

If money were no object and I was to live in Vancouver, I'd move to Point Grey. I actually prefer West Van in many ways, but it's too much of pain to commute from West Van.

I like Coquitlam because geographically its central. Takes me 10 minutes or less to get to Maple Ridge, Surrey, New West, Burnaby, North Van is 20 minutes away, Vancouver's border is 15 minutes with downtown being 25 minutes away. And Coquitlam has a lot of old generation immigrants the kind that assimilated to our culture. The ones that left home for something different. Its prob why a lot of old immigrants here are just as pissed off of what has happened the last 2 decades as the naturally born people. Its rather disturbing because at work I was talking about this thread with a few co-workers while out having a smoke and one of them a East Indian who has been here for 20 years, came as a teenager was even more vocal on the subject then any one else. Almost felt like reminding him he was east Indian by birth lol. The West resents Toronto because if you do any kind of business its a Toronto centric world. And the one thing from the US political system I would gladly adopt here is equal representation. The National government is what ever Toronto votes for most of the time. Toronto forms the government even before our polling stations close. Its not the people itself, its business, and politics. That said a lot of people from Toronto seem dipsy and clueless to anything outside of Toronto...

[Athens]

Originally Posted by besson3c 

I don't understand this outrage, I frankly think it's kind of dumb.

There are hate crimes all over the place:

Table 12 - Hate Crime Statistics 2009
Table 1 - Hate Crime Statistics 2009

These occur in states with a lot of different races, and states with few. There are all different kinds of hate crimes, all sorts of different victims, all sorts of different population centers. I think making the claim that there is a relationship between immigration patterns and these crimes is murky, and probably futile.

What is in common here is ignorance, poor education, poverty, crime problems, etc. *This* is the heart of the matter and is what is worth fussing over. Deal with the root cause.

I have about 20 gay friends, its always the same stories. The assaults, attacks and abuse is mostly East Indian males. It took a long time for the city to become tolerant towards gays, and while it wasn't perfect, I resent immigrants coming here with there intolerant views on it beating the hell out of people who should be safe from this kind of thing.... Do like homosexuality go home. Don't move some place its acceptable and start beating and killing them. Crime rates have been falling for years but the demographics of some crimes have changed a lot to. Break and Enters are still mostly crack heads, car thefts too. But random beatings, gang murders, street racing deaths are becoming a major immigrant problem.

[Athens]

Originally Posted by freudling 

We're talking about Canada and its immigration problems and you post US statistics. Lol.

Ignore...

Anybody else from Vancouver?

Canada it is mostly Asia immigration that is the problem. To many people from a few select countries. The US has the exact same problem in the south with Mexicans. Its why Arizona has reached the boiling point. You get the exact same problems in areas where the Mexican population has jumped to the high 60% range like here.

[Athens]

Originally Posted by Eug 

Heh, one could just as easily argue that Coquitlam was overrun by hick whites until Asians started evening up the numbers.

Now we just need more Africans or West Indians or whatever to move to BC. Vancouver could do with some better (stereotypical) jerk chicken.

P.S. Prince George named Canada's worst crime-ridden city

Prince George, B.C.
Victoria, B.C.
Regina, Sask.
Saskatoon, Sask.
Fort McMurray, Alta.
Kelowna, B.C.
Grande Prairie, Alta.
Surrey, B.C.
Chilliwack, B.C.
Winnipeg, Man.

Out of those, only Surrey really stands out as a place with tons of Asians. The others tend to be much more Caucasian.

And the stats there don't break down the crime numbers by race. Just overall numbers. Take the last 10 gay bashings in Vancouver. If you just listed the number of Gay Bashings over a period of 6 months as 10, it means nothing. Now list them by who actually committed the assaults, it would show up as 9 East Indian Assaults and one white assault. Same 10 assaults, but 90% of them committed by one group with the same cultural background and one thing in common all immigrants. So until you get details stats those numbers don't mean anything.

[freudling]

Originally Posted by Athens 

Or Screen people for suitability, and educate potential new citizens as part of the proccess.



Variety good, thats not what is going on. I think your missing the point and assuming there is variety. No, its complete and total transformation not variety. Its not a community of some Greeks, some Russians, some Turks, some Cubans. Its 65% Asian (more in some areas) and everything else that makes up the world is the rest. That isn't variety. Thats a problem.

Yup. And here's some data nationally:

"Some 56.5% of immigrants [coming into Canada in] 2007 came from an Asiatic country."

The influx from this area of the world has created unique and challenging problems for us here. This is one, albeit a major, problem with immigration in Canada. There are a variety of problems here.

Speaking on this problem from Asia, as mentioned, one challenge is National Security. It is more akin to a silent takeover, although that is hyperbole at this point. But still, we have our own "CIA" telling the public that they're concerned with Chinese influence over our own provincial governments and federal government. I've also worked in government here and I have experienced how visible minorities, like Chinese and East Indian, push their own agendas in line with the values and beliefs of their own countries. This obviously causes tension between numerous different groups and parties involved. And it's the multicultural doctrine that is the root of the problem because we promote the absolute, 100% protection of your home country's religion and, for the most part, way of life. All the hate between other countries, just ends up here because, the Koreans don't like the Chinese. The Chinese don't like the Japanese, etc... it all just transfers here.

Another challenge is how easy it is for these individuals to sponsor their very large families to come over here. Families, parents, grandparents. Too many cases where they offer no skills. They're not productive members of the economy. They're not generating any taxes. They may not even live here most of the time, but they get sponsored, get citizenship, and that's that. Family sponsorship has been on the rise in terms of CIC planning, with fluctuating, yet increased, rates in some years:

Report on the Demographic Situation in Canada: 2005 and 2006: Part I - Current demographic situation in Canada, 2005 and 2006: Table 4.1

And if you want more information about this, go, like I did, and read the FOIA documents from CIC, complete with officers notes, etc. It starts revealing how weak our immigration system is.

Another interesting thing about Asians is that, as a visible minority group, they have, on average, just above poverty-line income nationally. Yet, you'll see literally none that are homeless on the street. They all seem to be driving nice cars, living in nice houses/apartments... etc. Obviously they are hiding their money; have money from their families from elsewhere, etc.

[hyteckit]

Originally Posted by freudling 

Yup. And here's some data nationally:

"Some 56.5% of immigrants [coming into Canada in] 2007 came from an Asiatic country."

The influx from this area of the world has created unique and challenging problems for us here. This is one, albeit a major, problem with immigration in Canada. There are a variety of problems here.

Speaking on this problem from Asia, as mentioned, one challenge is National Security. It is more akin to a silent takeover, although that is hyperbole at this point. But still, we have our own "CIA" telling the public that they're concerned with Chinese influence over our own provincial governments and federal government. I've also worked in government here and I have experienced how visible minorities, like Chinese and East Indian, push their own agendas in line with the values and beliefs of their own countries. This obviously causes tension between numerous different groups and parties involved. And it's the multicultural doctrine that is the root of the problem because we promote the absolute, 100% protection of your home country's religion and, for the most part, way of life. All the hate between other countries, just ends up here because, the Koreans don't like the Chinese. The Chinese don't like the Japanese, etc... it all just transfers here.

Another challenge is how easy it is for these individuals to sponsor their very large families to come over here. Families, parents, grandparents. Too many cases where they offer no skills. They're not productive members of the economy. They're not generating any taxes. They may not even live here most of the time, but they get sponsored, get citizenship, and that's that. Family sponsorship has been on the rise in terms of CIC planning, with fluctuating, yet increased, rates in some years:

Report on the Demographic Situation in Canada: 2005 and 2006: Part I - Current demographic situation in Canada, 2005 and 2006: Table 4.1

And if you want more information about this, go, like I did, and read the FOIA documents from CIC, complete with officers notes, etc. It starts revealing how weak our immigration system is.

Another interesting thing about Asians is that, as a visible minority group, they have, on average, just above poverty-line income nationally. Yet, you'll see literally none that are homeless on the street. They all seem to be driving nice cars, living in nice houses/apartments... etc. Obviously they are hiding their money; have money from their families from elsewhere, etc.

Because in the Asian culture, generations live under one roof saving money on food and shelter. You have grandparents, parents, and grandkids all living under one roof.

There are rich Asians and there are poor Asians, just like any other race. On average they are above the poverty-line. What's wrong with rich Asians driving nice cars and live in nice houses? Because there are poor Asians so all Asians should be driving crappy cars and live in crappy houses?

Asians immigrants from Hong Kong, Taiwan, and Japan tend to be wealthier because they are from wealthier societies. Asians from countries like Vietnam, China, Cambodia, Laos, and so forth tend to be poorer cause they came from poorer countries.

The Koreans and Chinese hate the Japanese because of WWII, where the Japanese slaughter hundreds of thousands of Chinese and Koreans civilians including women and children. Many Koreans and Chinese have not forgiven the Japanese for that, especially the older generation. The younger generation have no problem with the Japanese.

[Athens]

This says it all, the Intro of a Cop show up here, dunno if Americans will be able to load it if not I'll rip it and post it some place else.

Ep7 - Downtown Eastside - The Beat - Citytv Video Portal

WARNING, this isn't COPS, this is real, raw and true to the core, not Fox Entertainment.

[freudling]

Originally Posted by hyteckit 

Because in the Asian culture, generations live under one roof saving money on food and shelter. You have grandparents, parents, and grandkids all living under one roof.

There are rich Asians and there are poor Asians, just like any other race. On average they are above the poverty-line. What's wrong with rich Asians driving nice cars and live in nice houses? Because there are poor Asians so all Asians should be driving crappy cars and live in crappy houses?

Please read and understand posts before you reply. Never did I imply that there was anything wrong with Asians driving nice cars, or living in nice houses. The point is what you see is not indicative of what the Canada Revenue Agency has for national averages among this group. Read around, there has even been press on this very subject.

Oh ya, and how many Asian restaurants in Vancouver have fake cash registers? Lots. Go do some more reading on sophisticated tax scams involving Asian restaurants around the Lower Mainland.

[freudling]

Originally Posted by Athens 

This says it all, the Intro of a Cop show up here, dunno if Americans will be able to load it if not I'll rip it and post it some place else.

Ep7 - Downtown Eastside - The Beat - Citytv Video Portal

WARNING, this isn't COPS, this is real, raw and true to the core, not Fox Entertainment.

This video is very well down. Everyday we struggle with this man, everyday. But it's not just the lower east side, the 10 shot last week was in a well-to-do westside neighbourhood. It's spilled over everywhere, although the lower east side is a total disaster only on par with what I've seen in Africa. Nowhere else, not even in bad parts of New York or LA, is it even close to this.

There's crime warning signs up not just around the lower east side apartments, but in condos from there to Yaletown.

[Eug]

To be honest, the more some of you talk, the more this just sounds like the same old racism that appears whenever new immigrants come. Yes, it's racism, plain and simple.

A century ago it was the Italians. 50 years ago it was the Jews. Now it's the Asians. Rinse, wash, repeat.

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by Eug 

To be honest, the more some of you talk, the more this just sounds like the same old racism that appears whenever new immigrants come. Yes, it's racism, plain and simple.

That's crap and you know it Eug. Here, first-gen immigrants (who tried to integrate) complain about third-gen immigrants of the same race and source country not integrating. There's nothing "plain and simple" about any of it.

[Athens]

Originally Posted by Eug 

To be honest, the more some of you talk, the more this just sounds like the same old racism that appears whenever new immigrants come. Yes, it's racism, plain and simple.

A century ago it was the Italians. 50 years ago it was the Jews. Now it's the Asians. Rinse, wash, repeat.

Not about Race, if it was race I wouldn't want any non whites here at all and thats not correct. I want immigration to do its job.

- Screen Immigrants for skilled suitable applicants. They do it for the Europeans, Russians, Africans but not the rest of Asia (Which started when East Indians and Chinese born Nationals started becoming members of Government. This isn't exactly fair to immigrants from the rest of the world who don't get a open door policy.

- Proper criminal background checks which is done on all other immigrants but again 2 major population groups from one continent seem to get a open door policy here again.

- Limits on how many of one group are allowed in. When a city is transformed from a (True multicultural society) into a new single society of one group it fails.

Seriously you have immigration trying to kick out a Russian for the last 3 years who has had to live in a Church under sanctuary because when he came here 15 years ago he was honest and said he had worked for the KGB. Only became a problem when a Conservative government started running the country. He seemed to have been ok for 13 years before that. Raised a family, was honest and now being kicked out because he worked for a agency he didn't really have a choice. You have immigration given blacks from Africa a hard time. A Canadian woman just a couple years ago was stripped of her passport in Africa when trying to return home to Toronto and locked up in a African jail for a month and had to plead to get DNA tested to prove she was Canadian because a immigration officer thought she was a scam artist trying to illegally travel to Canada even though her family and friends including young children told them this was her mother. We left a Canadian teenager of middle east decent to rot in a US military jail for almost a decade, and when he does return home it will have been a decade.

Had any of these incidents been Asians or East Indians it would have been totally different outcomes. Why because East Indians and Asians make up a good proportion of Government and the population. If you ask me the government is being racist towards every one else.

Entrance to the country should be based on skills and the ability to qualify, which had to be lowered recently because to many people from one part of the world failed creating massive additional work in appeals so the standards where lowered. It should NOT be about who has the money to buy there way in, and people from the same countries now in Government doing everything they can to make it easier for only there people. Period.

Closed the door to Asia, and open the door to Europe, Middle East, Africa to even out the numbers again. Then it will be multicultural again.

When you have Greeks, Italians, Russians, Asians and others moving away because its become to Asian that tells you something is wrong with what is happening now. That isn't racist.

[Athens]

This is multicultural



These next 2 are not, all one of kind of people are far from being Multicultural.

[Athens]

PS This might help...

In Canada, the term 'Asian' is pan-continental, in contrast to the United States which uses a Sino-centric definition of "Asian" which represents Chinese .

Clear up some misunderstandings, because it seems like some think when the term Asian is used, it means Chinese only.... When its really referring to Chinese, Filipino, Pakistani, Koreans, Vietnamese, Japanese, Cambodians, East Indians, Malaysians, Indonesians, Taiwanese, Singaporeans and other peoples of "ASIA" though the largest 3 groups are Chinese, East Indians and Filipino's.

Wow the Canadian Government in the mid 80's even created a foundation through parliament to seek special treatment with Asia for immigration.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asia_Pa...tion_of_Canada

Would have been nice had they done the same with Africa and Europe to so things would have been more even.

[Athens]

Oh wow I can't believe I forgot about this part of it

Old 'Empire' and commonwealth countries have very easy immigration laws (AND TRAVEL) between them...

I forgot they do have special treatment and special access.

[Eug]

Originally Posted by athens 

OMG... The horror!!!

Tell you what. I would prefer not to live around the Pacific Mall in Toronto either (where it's pretty much all Chinese), but it's actually pretty safe there and the restaurants are good, and I have no problem with Chinese immigrants wanting to live there.

I personally prefer much more of a mix too, but it's not as if we should be bussing families into other neighbourhoods to force it. On the flipside, where I do live is 99.99% Caucasian, and the restaurants around here mostly suck, unless you like North American fast food pizza joints and fish and chips. However, my neighbours are generally nice (except the one ass who wanted to block my basement reno) and obey the law so that's fine too. So, why did I move here if the restaurants mostly suck and it's not so multicultural in the neighbourhood? Because it's a nice house, close to downtown, and is on the waterfront.

[besson3c]

Originally Posted by Athens 

I have about 20 gay friends, its always the same stories. The assaults, attacks and abuse is mostly East Indian males. It took a long time for the city to become tolerant towards gays, and while it wasn't perfect, I resent immigrants coming here with there intolerant views on it beating the hell out of people who should be safe from this kind of thing.... Do like homosexuality go home. Don't move some place its acceptable and start beating and killing them. Crime rates have been falling for years but the demographics of some crimes have changed a lot to. Break and Enters are still mostly crack heads, car thefts too. But random beatings, gang murders, street racing deaths are becoming a major immigrant problem.

But what you are doing here is forming flawed generalizations.

You are generalizing that East Indians come = violence against gays increases. There are lots of ways to make violence against gays increase because there are lots of groups that aren't crazy about them. You could surely substitute many other populations with East Indians including certain populations of White America.

So, at the end of all of this, you really have nothing actionable and practical that can be taken from this. You are reacting to symptoms, not the root cause. The root cause is the fundamental nature of all of humanity.

[Eug]

But do you really believe these guys and gals aren't going to go gay bashing in Van tonite. I bet the one in the pink there has a purse full of brass knuckles.

[freudling]

Originally Posted by besson3c 

But what you are doing here is forming flawed generalizations.

You are generalizing that East Indians come = violence against gays increases. There are lots of ways to make violence against gays increase because there are lots of groups that aren't crazy about them. You could surely substitute many other populations with East Indians including certain populations of White America.

So, at the end of all of this, you really have nothing actionable and practical that can be taken from this. You are reacting to symptoms, not the root cause. The root cause is the fundamental nature of all of humanity.

This is complete BS. Just discounting all the data that was posted, and what we're living with. You guys are nothing but armchair critics. Hand waving Internet junkies with no basis in reality.

[freudling]

Originally Posted by besson3c 

But what you are doing here is forming flawed generalizations.

You are generalizing that East Indians come = violence against gays increases. There are lots of ways to make violence against gays increase because there are lots of groups that aren't crazy about them. You could surely substitute many other populations with East Indians including certain populations of White America.

So, at the end of all of this, you really have nothing actionable and practical that can be taken from this. You are reacting to symptoms, not the root cause. The root cause is the fundamental nature of all of humanity.

These are not flawed generalizations. Look at the data here.

[besson3c]

Let's try this again then, what exactly is your assertion, in a nutshell?

[turtle777]

Originally Posted by besson3c 

Let's try this again then, what exactly is your assertion, in a nutshell?

I'm glad to be able to help. Here it is again:

Originally Posted by freudling 

This is complete BS. Just discounting all the data that was posted, and what we're living with. You guys are nothing but armchair critics. Hand waving Internet junkies with no basis in reality.

-t

[ebuddy]

Originally Posted by Eug 

But do you really believe these guys and gals aren't going to go gay bashing in Van tonite. I bet the one in the pink there has a purse full of brass knuckles.

I see what you did there. You seized on the most attractive one. Playah!

[Athens]

Originally Posted by besson3c 

But what you are doing here is forming flawed generalizations.

You are generalizing that East Indians come = violence against gays increases. There are lots of ways to make violence against gays increase because there are lots of groups that aren't crazy about them. You could surely substitute many other populations with East Indians including certain populations of White America.

So, at the end of all of this, you really have nothing actionable and practical that can be taken from this. You are reacting to symptoms, not the root cause. The root cause is the fundamental nature of all of humanity.

Again this is where screening people before they even get here helps. And requiring some form of education once they arrive. What is ok for them to do at home isn't ok to do here. How can you defend a open door policy with no screening and no education? I guess your all in favor of Iranian woman having no rights here because back at home they don't?

[freudling]

Originally Posted by besson3c 

Let's try this again then, what exactly is your assertion, in a nutshell?

The multicultural doctrine has not worked in Canada. First, promoting each group's culture and religion has caused too much tension between these groups within one country, both socially and politically.

Specifically, Canada's lax immigration policies as it relates to refugees and undeveloped countries has ushered in a new era of crime. Here's real world evidence from Vancouver. The drug dealing and organized crime situation extends to other areas, like Winnipeg, Toronto, Montreal, and others.

Ep7 - Downtown Eastside - The Beat - Citytv Video Portal

Moreover, it is a national security threat to allow every culture to advance their own agendas within government, which is exactly what has happened both provincially and federally. This is driven by the fact that we allow so many Asians to enter into Canada. The distribution is too skewed.

Here is a case with the director of our "CIA" talking about the issue. And there's been a lot of press on how young Asian students come here on student visas but they are recruited and funded by their own governments... and planted here. It's too easy for them to come here on student visas. And the checks and balances within CIC is severely wanting.

See: CBC News - British Columbia - CSIS comments anger Chinese community

Because of the insulated nature of these cultures in Canada, politically, the government cannot rule its people objectively. This is seen in our laws. Our laws are different for different cultures. Sikhs don't have to wear motorcycle helmets or cut their hair in our military, but others do. Holidays are given to each culture in accordance with the religious practice of their home country. There's over 50 legally recognized religions in Canada. Sikhs can carry machetes on their persons, but others could get charged with carrying a weapon if they do. And there's no shortage of machete attacks in the Lower Mainland, as well as elsewhere.

CTV British Columbia - Vancouver police seize one machete per day - CTV News

CBC News - Saskatchewan - Sask. cabbie describes machete attack

Socially, insulated cultures create tension between other cultures. Chinese speaking Chinese, Koreans speaking Korean, etc. Each pushing the government to implement their own school curriculum, among many other things.

On a personal level, someone with actual experience living in Canada, and living in various different parts of it, I see the racial tension everyday. I'll give you an example.

2 weeks ago, I was at a pizza joint late at night. A group of soldiers from the Canadian Forces were out and about. They were dressed in their tunics. One came in while I was waiting in line. A Chinese guy came up to him and told him to go fuxx himself, and that the Chinese would take over this country within 6 years. This kind of racism happens all the time.

Growing up it was happening, too. You can't charge us cover! It's racist! It's because we're brown that you're charging us cover! Fuxx you white honkies! Then the stabbings begin... How many experiences I could mention...

I'm so sick of hearing from people that white people are racist. Anytime we discuss immigration issues here we're racist. Not going to work anymore. No more tolerance. We need change. And I/we are not the only ones who think so:

Home Page | Centre for Immigration Policy Reform

German Chancellor: Multiculturalism Has Failed

We're calling for immigration policy reform.

[Athens]

Originally Posted by besson3c 

Let's try this again then, what exactly is your assertion, in a nutshell?

To many immigrants over a short period of time from the same culture results in them creating and living in a subculture here vs to adapting and living by our culture and our rules. Intolerances towards woman, gays, and other cultures remain intacted resulting in violence against woman, gays and other cultures. Due to subculture living vs adapting, they create an extension of the country they are leaving and bring with it the same issues, rules and standards some of which are completely incompatible with our culture and way of living. Examples include forced marriages, woman who are not allowed to leave the house, or have friends or to get a education for all intents and purposes are still slaves here as it was back at home. You get a cash based under ground economy or barter economy in this sub culture ignoring our monetary and business laws and rules. Taxes are not paid, inferior or dangerous products are sold or counterfeit products. Unqualified people doing accounting, home inspections, construction work and modifications on immigrant homes. Disputes between people are handled through violence and not law enforcement and collectively do not cooperate with our law enforcement because one they do not respect our laws and see's such enforcement as interference from our police which to them are outsiders in the subculture communities that developed from the condensed and quick immigration that has occurred. Minors are sent here by the parents to live here alone and to fend for themselves.

Anyways here is the link to the same video I posted yesterday but on youtube which shouldn't have the same region restrictions for our US friends

YouTube - Vancouver Police "TheBeat" (Ep-7 Part-1)

[freudling]

Originally Posted by Athens 

To many immigrants over a short period of time from the same culture results in them creating and living in a subculture here vs to adapting and living by our culture and our rules. Intolerances towards woman, gays, and other cultures remain intacted resulting in violence against woman, gays and other cultures. Due to subculture living vs adapting, they create an extension of the country they are leaving and bring with it the same issues, rules and standards some of which are completely incompatible with our culture and way of living. Examples include forced marriages, woman who are not allowed to leave the house, or have friends or to get a education for all intents and purposes are still slaves here as it was back at home. You get a cash based under ground economy or barter economy in this sub culture ignoring our monetary and business laws and rules. Taxes are not paid, inferior or dangerous products are sold or counterfeit products. Unqualified people doing accounting, home inspections, construction work and modifications on immigrant homes. Disputes between people are handled through violence and not law enforcement and collectively do not cooperate with our law enforcement because one they do not respect our laws and see's such enforcement as interference from our police which to them are outsiders in the subculture communities that developed from the condensed and quick immigration that has occurred. Minors are sent here by the parents to live here alone and to fend for themselves.

Anyways here is the link to the same video I posted yesterday but on youtube which shouldn't have the same region restrictions for our US friends

YouTube - Vancouver Police "TheBeat" (Ep-7 Part-1)

Well said. These kinds of things have rooted themselves within our government and it's getting out-of-control. We've got Members of Parliament supported by a set group of people. They'll push for their "people's" agendas, and our socio-political-legal structures are organized in such a way as to accommodate these agendas. But it's breaking down. And multi-culturalism is the driving force of it all.

Someone mentioned earlier about the real root cause of social strife being humanity itself. As I stated before, people are too primitive and stupid to all live under one roof. We're not evolved enough. But that's not an answer, that's just an observation. There's idealistic world, and then there's reality. I'm living in reality.