Welcome to the MacNN Forums.

If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.

You are here: MacNN Forums > Community > MacNN Lounge > Star Trek 3D 2013

Star Trek 3D 2013 (Page 2)
Thread Tools
The Final Dakar
Games Meister
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Eternity
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Dec 1, 2011, 05:19 PM
 
I think very rarely if ever showed showers, too.

I found the hidden sink in Riker's quarters intriguingly silly.

But then again this is the problem with trying to portray the distant future on a television series. Details like that are mundane and/or expensive to deal with. I mean, do any of the beds they sleep in look comfortable? And the general rule seems to be to have shimmery or shiny fabric.
     
olePigeon
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Dec 1999
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Dec 1, 2011, 05:28 PM
 
Troi had an actual bath in her quarters. In Voyager you get to see B'Elanna use a sonic shower.
"…I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than
you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods,
you will understand why I dismiss yours." - Stephen F. Roberts
     
The Final Dakar
Games Meister
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Eternity
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Dec 1, 2011, 05:30 PM
 
Oh yeah, the Barclay spider episode?
     
olePigeon
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Dec 1999
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Dec 1, 2011, 05:40 PM
 
Originally Posted by The Final Dakar View Post
Oh yeah, the Barclay spider episode?
Yarp. One of my favorite episodes. You also get to see one of the rare instances where a ship isn't automatically oriented the same way as another ship.
"…I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than
you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods,
you will understand why I dismiss yours." - Stephen F. Roberts
     
SpaceMonkey
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Washington, DC
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Dec 1, 2011, 05:47 PM
 
Far be it from me to suggest that Troi did her business in the bathtub.

"One ticket to Washington, please. I have a date with destiny."
     
Uncle Skeleton
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Rockville, MD
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Dec 1, 2011, 06:02 PM
 
Originally Posted by The Final Dakar View Post
I always imagined that's where the door in Picard's Ready Room and Sisko's Office lead to.

Those were the only toilets on the ship and station, though.
No they weren't:
     
Uncle Skeleton
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Rockville, MD
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Dec 1, 2011, 06:24 PM
 
Originally Posted by SpaceMonkey View Post
Far be it from me to suggest that Troi did her business in the bathtub.
They probably have it replicate the tub and toilet on demand, then the waste matter gets de-replicated for use in later utensils and tea (earl grey) (hot)
     
SpaceMonkey
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Washington, DC
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Dec 1, 2011, 06:29 PM
 
I also found the idea of the Jeffries tubes hilarious. Not the idea that they exist, but the idea that at some point in the future someone would get credit for inventing frickin' crawlspace.

"One ticket to Washington, please. I have a date with destiny."
     
olePigeon
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Dec 1999
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Dec 1, 2011, 06:41 PM
 
People in this century get credit for inventing common sense ideas. Then they take it a step further and sue.
"…I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than
you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods,
you will understand why I dismiss yours." - Stephen F. Roberts
     
Athens  (op)
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Great White North
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Dec 1, 2011, 06:57 PM
 
Originally Posted by The Final Dakar View Post
I always imagined that's where the door in Picard's Ready Room and Sisko's Office lead to.

Those were the only toilets on the ship and station, though.
Maybe replicated food is 100% absorbed into the body thus no waste.

Originally Posted by olePigeon View Post
On the schematics of the Enterprise-D in the engine room, there are, in fact, TWO bathrooms. It was an ongoing joke with the art/prop department.

Voyager covered the issue at one point when they lost power. Supposedly there're bathrooms on every floor.
2 Bathrooms for a crew of a 1000 and only in the star drive section. Makes you wonder what they do in the shuttles on long trips lol

Apparently this is the bathroom on the bridge

http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/File...dge_head_1.jpg

Some one needs to send a letter to JJ demanding a Toilet in the next movie lol
( Last edited by Athens; Dec 1, 2011 at 07:03 PM. )
Blandine Bureau 1940 - 2011
Missed 2012 by 3 days, RIP Grandma :-(
     
The Final Dakar
Games Meister
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Eternity
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Dec 1, 2011, 09:06 PM
 
Originally Posted by SpaceMonkey View Post
I also found the idea of the Jeffries tubes hilarious. Not the idea that they exist, but the idea that at some point in the future someone would get credit for inventing frickin' crawlspace.
… do you know production history behind them?

Originally Posted by Athens View Post
Maybe replicated food is 100% absorbed into the body thus no waste.
Shut up
     
SpaceMonkey
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Washington, DC
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Dec 1, 2011, 09:57 PM
 
Originally Posted by The Final Dakar View Post
… do you know production history behind them?
Yeah, and I get that. But intent counts for squat unless the idea of the production joke actually makes it into the narrative, too.

"One ticket to Washington, please. I have a date with destiny."
     
Eug
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Caught in a web of deceit.
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Dec 2, 2011, 12:38 AM
 
I was touring an old Russian submarine, and the entire sub had 2 bathrooms. One for the enlisted men, and one for the officers.

Apparently, the toilet would break down all the time, as it was otherwise in constant use.


Originally Posted by The Final Dakar View Post
But then again this is the problem with trying to portray the distant future on a television series. Details like that are mundane and/or expensive to deal with. I mean, do any of the beds they sleep in look comfortable? And the general rule seems to be to have shimmery or shiny fabric.
Funny you should mention that. I just bought an overpriced Tempur-Pedic mattress. Despite its utilitarian look and its relative thinness compared to conventional top of the line spring mattresses, it's comfortable.



BTW, these mattress materials were developed for NASA's space-faring cushions and beds.
     
Athens  (op)
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Great White North
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Dec 2, 2011, 07:02 AM
 
Bump (taking focus off a last post from a spammer)
Blandine Bureau 1940 - 2011
Missed 2012 by 3 days, RIP Grandma :-(
     
ghporter
Administrator
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: San Antonio TX USA
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Dec 2, 2011, 07:58 AM
 
Actually, Matt Jeffries gets credit for inventing "keeping important interconnection and control equipment accessible for maintenance," as he and Gene came up with the specific kind of crawl space now known as a Jeffries Tube. Remember, this was invented in 1966, when a telephone central office equipment room was full of electromechanical dial decoders... Today, a CO is basically yet another big computer interconnect room (and QUIET, too!) in part because the logic of having everything that you might need to be able to get at available was just too intensely logical.

Star Trek was indeed the inspiration for a LOT of what today is thought of as common and practical. From the way control consoles are laid out (compare the Apollo Mission Control center to something like a modern electric utility's control room) to the use of specific feedback signals for control inputs ("ting!" for good versus "buzz!" for bad).

Finally, when you make a TV series on a budget, you show what you need to for the story. You don't show things that aren't part of the story because that costs extra. So sets have the walls you'll see, but not the other side of that wall (unless there is some need to show that side), and unless someone using the toilet is part of the story, you'll never see what sort of porcelain is in vogue in the 2350s. And remember, in the 1960s, NOBODY in a TV series had a toilet and Dick VanDyke's Rob and Laura Petri had separate, twin beds; the mores of TV were such that some things were not shown... Trivia: the first interracial kiss on prime time network TV was in the ST episode "Plato's Stepchildren" when the baddies made Kirk kiss Uhura. And it was a big thing, causing a large number of Southern stations to not run that episode... It first aired on November 22, 1968.

Glenn -----OTR/L, MOT, Tx
     
Uncle Skeleton
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Rockville, MD
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Dec 2, 2011, 01:22 PM
 
Originally Posted by ghporter View Post
So sets have the walls you'll see, but not the other side of that wall
I KNEW it. Even though the crew was always posing telegenically towards the rightish front of the bridge, that's right where the toilet was!
     
The Final Dakar
Games Meister
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Eternity
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Dec 2, 2011, 01:24 PM
 
Originally Posted by Eug View Post
Funny you should mention that. I just bought an overpriced Tempur-Pedic mattress. Despite its utilitarian look and its relative thinness compared to conventional top of the line spring mattresses, it's comfortable.



BTW, these mattress materials were developed for NASA's space-faring cushions and beds.
I could be wrong, but I feel I could tell the difference between these two when people were laying on them.

Seriously the pillows are the best part. They're foam triangles, mostly.
     
Eug
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Caught in a web of deceit.
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Dec 2, 2011, 02:31 PM
 
Originally Posted by The Final Dakar View Post
I could be wrong, but I feel I could tell the difference between these two when people were laying on them.
Not sure what you're saying, but yeah, different types of memory foam combos do feel different, although it might be hard to spot the difference just from a far away camera angle.

The one I got is 0.8" of a "comfort" 5.3 lb density memory foam, and then 2" of another type of their regular 5.3 lb density memory foam, and then another 3" of a synthetic latex foam, and then 4.3" of this other dimpled foam stuff.



If the structure of the Star Trek: TNG bed could be made out of some sort of support foam directly underneath the mattress, then they could get away with 3" of memory foam-like material for the surface mattress like in the show and it'd actually be more comfortable for a lot of people than regular spring mattresses.

Seriously the pillows are the best part. They're foam triangles, mostly.
Well, in real life, they do have these for sale now:



Not quite the same, but they're reasonably comfortable. I've got two regularly shaped memory foam pillows and they're fine too, although I'm perfectly fine with regular pillows as well.
     
The Final Dakar
Games Meister
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Eternity
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Dec 2, 2011, 02:44 PM
 
Indeed, I own one of those pillows, they are good.

But the pillows I'm referring to are just a wedge. Unfortunately, I can't post any pics, as who the **** cares enough to have pictures of ST pillows on the internet?
     
Eug
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Caught in a web of deceit.
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Dec 2, 2011, 02:59 PM
 
Not ST pillows, but wedge pillows do exist in significant numbers:

     
The Final Dakar
Games Meister
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Eternity
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Dec 2, 2011, 03:15 PM
 
Yeah, that's pretty much it. Anyway, it's nitpicking, as I imagine those probably store better, are visually clean, and are uncommon enough to seem fresh if not futuristic.

But they do not look comfortable.
     
Uncle Skeleton
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Rockville, MD
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Dec 2, 2011, 03:46 PM
 
They'll look more comfortable in 3D
     
Eug
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Caught in a web of deceit.
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Dec 2, 2011, 04:09 PM
 
In 3D they'll just give me a headache.
     
SpaceMonkey
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Washington, DC
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Dec 4, 2011, 02:19 PM
 
Maybe the Packers are still undefeated in the 24th century, with negative repercussions across the design world.

"One ticket to Washington, please. I have a date with destiny."
     
lpkmckenna
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Toronto
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Dec 4, 2011, 05:28 PM
 
I was "fine" with the new Star Trek. It wasn't much better than other ST films, because other than Wrath of Khan, they've all been average quality films.

The time travel story was typical ST (which should be renamed Time Trek frankly), and the bizarre plot holes and absurd coincidences were painful, but the cast was so well chosen, I can forgive most of those problems.

I don't know who the villains will be in the next one, but they eventually will need to address the Klingons, and they should do the non-obvious thing: there is never a war with them in the new timeline. The Federation meets them for the first time, and the clash of cultures is peacefully resolved.

But other than the Klingons, I never want to see the other ST races again. No Borg, no Ferengi, no more Romulans. Something new, and not just humans with weird ears or ridges.

Originally Posted by Face Ache View Post
In 1977 Star Wars opened with the battlecruiser coming in from overhead. If that was released today would we have a bunch of 3D-haters scoffing?
Not a single aspect of Star Wars would escape condemnation today.

Desert world? Dune rip off.
Trench run? A drag race pretending to be a space battle.
Darth Vader? Dr. Doom rip off.
Princess Leia? Stereotypical damsel in distress.
Imperial officers? They ripped off Nazi uniforms from the props department.

Let's not forget the endless dialog problems. Like Obi-Wan saying "Let it go, it's too far out of range" when the Tie-Fighter is barely a few ship-lengths away. Or Obi-Wan asking "how did that little ship get this deep into space on its own" when it's not deep space, there used to be a major planet there, remember?

But it's not that viewers have become more sophisticated, they've just become more jaded. We used to forgive sci-fi films for their inherent problems, but now we don't.

Originally Posted by ghporter
Trivia: the first interracial kiss on prime time network TV was in the ST episode "Plato's Stepchildren" when the baddies made Kirk kiss Uhura. And it was a big thing, causing a large number of Southern stations to not run that episode... It first aired on November 22, 1968.
I saw that episode for the first time recently. God, that was painful to watch. By definition, any tv episode that employs mind control as a plot device will be complete crap.
     
Eug
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Caught in a web of deceit.
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Dec 4, 2011, 05:35 PM
 
One big inspiration for Star Wars was Hidden Fortress by Akira Kurasawa. However, Lucas freely admits it.

And yeah, the Star Trek Plato's Stepchildren episode was absolutely horrible. Furthermore, it totally destroyed the first interracial TV kiss, because both characters were forced into it against their will.

Originally Posted by lpkmckenna View Post
But other than the Klingons, I never want to see the other ST races again. No Borg, no Ferengi, no more Romulans. Something new, and not just humans with weird ears or ridges.
?



( Last edited by Eug; Dec 4, 2011 at 05:42 PM. )
     
Waragainstsleep
Posting Junkie
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: UK
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Dec 4, 2011, 05:46 PM
 
Originally Posted by lpkmckenna View Post
Not a single aspect of Star Wars would escape condemnation today.

Desert world? Dune rip off.
Trench run? A drag race pretending to be a space battle.
Darth Vader? Dr. Doom rip off.
Princess Leia? Stereotypical damsel in distress.
Imperial officers? They ripped off Nazi uniforms from the props department.
Star Wars is older than Dune (The movie). Unless your point is that if it was released now Tatooine would be compared to Arrakis in which case there are a million other rip-offs of Star Wars that have been done since that this same argument would apply to.

Originally Posted by lpkmckenna View Post
Let's not forget the endless dialog problems. Like Obi-Wan saying "Let it go, it's too far out of range" when the Tie-Fighter is barely a few ship-lengths away. Or Obi-Wan asking "how did that little ship get this deep into space on its own" when it's not deep space, there used to be a major planet there, remember?

But it's not that viewers have become more sophisticated, they've just become more jaded. We used to forgive sci-fi films for their inherent problems, but now we don't.
There isn't many films period that can escape this sort of criticism any more, it certainly isn't limited to Star Trek & Star Wars. Look how long it took TV to catch up with cell phone ownership for example, that would have destroyed a great many plots in a great many movies and TV shows.

This sort of criticism has been going on among SF geeks for years but has gradually seeped into the mainstream. First there was Comic Book Guy on The Simpsons, then The Lone Gunmen on X-Files, various characters on Buffy and perhaps most mainstream of all there was the comic geek on The OC. His name was Seth I think. Nowadays we have The Big Bang Theory and Chuck adding these geek-esque nitpicking debates into general mainstream usage. And not forgetting Troy and Abed on Community but apparently no-one watches that. Oh and Tina Fey slips the odd SW reference into 30 Rock.
( Last edited by Waragainstsleep; Dec 4, 2011 at 05:57 PM. )
I have plenty of more important things to do, if only I could bring myself to do them....
     
Face Ache
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Jul 2001
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Dec 4, 2011, 06:00 PM
 
Originally Posted by lpkmckenna View Post
Not a single aspect of Star Wars would escape condemnation today.

Desert world? Dune rip off.
Trench run? A drag race pretending to be a space battle.
Darth Vader? Dr. Doom rip off.
Princess Leia? Stereotypical damsel in distress.
Imperial officers? They ripped off Nazi uniforms from the props department.


^ Princess Leia's buns in the 1954 Dam Busters movie (where he also stole the trench run scene from).

I guess the magic of movies stems from the suspension of disbelief. Even Neil deGrasse Tyson said he enjoyed the last Star Trek movie.
     
Waragainstsleep
Posting Junkie
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: UK
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Dec 4, 2011, 06:52 PM
 
IPMckenna, ever seen George Lucas In Love?

George Lucas In Love Video
I have plenty of more important things to do, if only I could bring myself to do them....
     
lpkmckenna
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Toronto
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Dec 4, 2011, 07:25 PM
 
Originally Posted by Waragainstsleep View Post
LPMckenna, ever seen George Lucas In Love?
Now I have. And somehow, I was still surprised by the ending.
     
ghporter
Administrator
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: San Antonio TX USA
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Dec 4, 2011, 07:57 PM
 
Need I point out that one of George Lucas' points with Star Wars was to make a really big Saturday morning serial? Action pushing a weak plot was a staple of all of them. As was "borrowing" liberally from just about everything that had ever been done before (sort of like now, except writers have more stuff to steal from so they can grab bits and pieces and make things look more or less original). A canyon chase is high-level action. A damsel in distress is a good motivation for Our Hero - even when the "damsel" is not quite as helpless as she might seem.

Borrowing Nazi imagery? You BET!. From the Imperial officers' uniforms to the Storm Troopers armor (that little cylinder in the small of their back? that's almost identical to a WWII Wehrmacht soldier's gas mask canister in both size and placement). It allows us to already know that "these are the bad guys." Like all of the bad guys wearing black hats and stuff. It's a story telling device, though rather overused in serials.

Now, as for the "story arc" that George had thought up, that was also not 100% original, (by a long shot), but he was hardly the first to put a new spin on these archetypes. And while I think it may have been better from a story perspective to sort of leave "how did Vader get to be Vader?" mysterious, Lucas said he was going to tell all of his story, and he managed to do so. I sure wish he'd stop fiddling with it though, as "his" story from almost 35 years ago is part of MY growing up, and yes, Han DID shoot first, the Storm Trooper DID say "Close the blast doors!!!" before Han and Chewie got through them and Trooper had to say "open the blast doors, open the blast doors!!!" Newer effects are one thing, but changing the story, even just a little bit, changes things badly.

Back to Star Trek, I think the only reason NBC got away with actually producing and airing "Plato's Stepchildren" was the very fact that Kirk and Uhura were forced to kiss. Yeah, 1968 sucked that bad. But it's a commentary on that time that such a kiss could only be on TV if it were science fiction or fantasty and the participants were forced into it.

To be honest, if a production gets approval from Gene Roddenberry's estate to call itself "Star Trek," I will go and see it. Absolutely. I may cringe (STIII: TSFS was pretty lame, as was STV: TFF, but I paid money to see 'em in a theater), but I'll go and see them.

Glenn -----OTR/L, MOT, Tx
     
lpkmckenna
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Toronto
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Dec 4, 2011, 08:50 PM
 
Originally Posted by ghporter View Post
Need I point out that one of George Lucas' points with Star Wars was to make a really big Saturday morning serial?
No, but I think you need to re-read what I wrote, because you seem to have missed my intended meaning. I wasn't being critical of Star Wars at all, but of our current expectations.
     
ghporter
Administrator
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: San Antonio TX USA
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Dec 4, 2011, 09:11 PM
 
Originally Posted by lpkmckenna View Post
No, but I think you need to re-read what I wrote, because you seem to have missed my intended meaning. I wasn't being critical of Star Wars at all, but of our current expectations.
I did sort of stray from that point, didn't I. But I think that "expectations" are something that we're far too UNcritical of. "Hey, it's a new blockbuster!!11!!!One!!!" generally means tons of people will see it, whether it's just a vehicle for cheezy overdone car chases and gasoline explosions or something that has real content and merit.

Those features of Saturday morning serials that I mentioned were not negatives; they were the same sort of story telling shortcuts that pulp fiction writers (and nowadays series TV writers) used for decades to get the story going without a lot of tedious exposition. The Indiana Jones series of films was made the same way. And with about as many holes: my father in law, a WWII vet and hardly a science fiction/fantasy fan, told me of about 5 things wrong with "Lost Ark," including when Indy took the PanAm clipper west over a complete Golden Gate bridge...before it was finished, and place names that were off for the time period. But while those things were indeed goofs, they didn't detract from the story.

Glenn -----OTR/L, MOT, Tx
     
Uncle Skeleton
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Rockville, MD
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Dec 5, 2011, 12:26 PM
 
Maybe the trick to making a good movie is low expectations, then letting nostalgia take the audience by surprise after the fact
     
 
Thread Tools
 
Forum Links
Forum Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Top
Privacy Policy
All times are GMT -4. The time now is 07:11 AM.
All contents of these forums © 1995-2017 MacNN. All rights reserved.
Branding + Design: www.gesamtbild.com
vBulletin v.3.8.8 © 2000-2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.,