[Lateralus]

And they're up to 1GHz with L3 cache.

Problem as I see it, would be the price: $499 for the 1GHz ZIF and $350 for the 800MHz ZIF. I am glad that the upgrades are finally here, but I am even more glad that I sold my B&W Power Mac a little over a month ago because there is no way I would have paid this much.

Good news nonetheless.

Kudos to Sonnet for managing to overcome the firmware problem!

[Evilrock]

well since i cant afford a new G5 ill end up buying it soon but i would need to sell my Powerlogix 800 ZIF to my homie first, ill let u guys know how it goes when i get it

[Cadaver]

Evilrock, I'm using a blue & white G3 at the office similar to your configuration:

-Powerlogix 900MHz G3 (750FX; 512K on-chip L3)
-576MB RAM (yes, I could use more)
-Maxtor 7200rpm 60GB HD w/ 8MB cache
-ACard UltraATA/133 PCI controller
-Radeon Mac Edition PCI (in 66MHz slot)
-Sony 40x24x10x CDRW

While the 900MHz G3 does a decent job, it does tend to get bogged down on things. Simple example is animated GIFs on webpages. Just seem to chew on the CPU. With recent optimizations in Panther, I think the lack of AltiVec is making a difference.

For $350, I think the 800MHz G4 with 1MB L3 might just be the solution. And it's $1200 cheaper than a new G5. Not sure I'd go with the $500 1GHz model, but these are looking very tempting, since I've really got no way to replace the machine itself.

[PAC-Rat]

Finally! I've been waiting for this for a while, since I can't afford a newer mac, and I've already invested so much in my yikes. But that high price... I might just have to settle for the 800MHz.
Has anyone monitored price drops on the previous upgrades, like, how long would I have to wait until the price of these new ZIFs goes down?

[TikTokk]

When I bought my 400mhz B&W, I always planned on upgrading the proc before buying a new model. I was beginning to think that wasn't going to be possible (at least not to a high enough speed to make it worthwhile).

I'd love to get the 1gig version, but I think the CFO (aka wife) will frown on that. I'm pretty sure I can squeak the 800mhz version past her though. After all, it will make her iMovie run better right?

[Scoo]

Damn, this is tempting.... 1 Ghz and a Pioneer DVR-106 OEM Superdrive would get me into the iLife 04 card game for $633 at OWC.... I had been budgeting $2800 for a DP G5 purchase, but I may put it off for now. It would certainly be an easier sell for the CFO (i.e. Wifey).

[Scoo]

HOWEVER...

This thread in xlr8yourmac states that the front side bus gets throttled down to 66 mHz. ArsTechnica's Mac forum contains similar warnings. I can't find confirmation of any of this, either there or on Sonnet's own data sheet.

Anyone care to elucidate?

[Lateralus]

I would definately like to see if these overclock. More specifically, I would like to see if Sonnet protected them from overclocking or not.

The 7455 is a solid chip with a high ceiling, there is little reason that the either the 800 of 1GHz version could not overclock past 1GHz, easily.

If overclocking is an ability with these new ZIFs, I would not be surprised whatsoever if the 1GHz model overclocked towards 1.3GHz. In fact, I would be surprised if it didn't.

If anybody could get 1.3GHz out of the $499 model, then it would most certainly be worth it.

[Gul Banana]

Originally posted by Scoo:
HOWEVER...

This thread in xlr8yourmac states that the front side bus gets throttled down to 66 mHz. ArsTechnica's Mac forum contains similar warnings. I can't find confirmation of any of this, either there or on Sonnet's own data sheet.

Anyone care to elucidate?

The motherboard on the G3s does not support a FSB higher than 66 MHz. So upgrading the processor isn't going to make all that much of a difference...

Let's say that in typical code, 10-20% of instructions are loads or stores (the G3 and G4 have a single-path bus). That means that if your CPU is more than 5-10x your FSB, you are going to see little to no speed improvement for many things. On a 66 MHz bus:
300 and less MHz = CPU will be the limit on performance
700 and above MHz = Motherboard will be the limit on performance
L3 cache helps here, and so does Altivec, so a 700+ mhz g4 will be faster than a 700+ g3 in a b&w. But... a 1 GHz G4 (or 1.3 GHz) will not make any sort of noticeable speed difference compared to a 800 MHz G4.

What you really need is a new motherboard. Unfortunately, in the Mac world, the only way to get that is to buy a new computer.

And also unfortunately, the situation can be worse than that. In a task such as encoding video (sans Altivec), loads and stores are more like 25% of all instructions.

[Lateralus]

Originally posted by Gul Banana:
The motherboard on the G3s does not support a FSB higher than 66 MHz. So upgrading the processor isn't going to make all that much of a difference...

The B&W G3 uses a 100Mhz motherboard.

[Gul Banana]

Originally posted by PowerMacMan:
The B&W G3 uses a 100Mhz motherboard.

...in that case, what are people complaining about?
I assumed 66 MHz, because I didn't see any other reason why people would be talking about the chip being throttled down to it...

[Cadaver]

Gah! I hope it's not true, but I suspect it is.
I'll definitely have to wait until some performance benchmarks are published before I decide to replace my 900MHz G3 with the 800MHz G4.

I'm hoping the 1MB of L3 on the G4 will make up for the 33% decrease in bus speed. Might just compensate for desktop apps; games will be a problem, however.

[Scotttheking]

Originally posted by Cadaver:
Gah! I hope it's not true, but I suspect it is.
I'll definitely have to wait until some performance benchmarks are published before I decide to replace my 900MHz G3 with the 800MHz G4.

I'm hoping the 1MB of L3 on the G4 will make up for the 33% decrease in bus speed. Might just compensate for desktop apps; games will be a problem, however.

If your price is right, I'll take the 900 off your hands if you get a G4

I'm interested in the G4 upgrade, but not if it's clocking the memory bus down. It doesn't matter much though, as my Sawtooth needs a CPU upgrade more.

[Scoo]

Originally posted by Cadaver:
Gah! I hope it's not true, but I suspect it is.
I'll definitely have to wait until some performance benchmarks are published before I decide to replace my 900MHz G3 with the 800MHz G4.

I'm hoping the 1MB of L3 on the G4 will make up for the 33% decrease in bus speed. Might just compensate for desktop apps; games will be a problem, however.

Here is the Sonnet FAQ FAQ regarding this upgrade. It does in fact choke the bus to 66MHz. LAME. NO SALE.

[Lateralus]

...so:

900MHz G3 that allows the bus to operate at 100MHz for $229

versus

1GHz G4 with L3 that cripples the bus to 66Mhz for $499

Any and all advantages that the L3 cache would provide under normal conditions are mute since the bus being throttled back to 66MHz only ensures that the system is going to have to fall back on the L3 far more often that it should.

I honestly cannot see who would buy this upgrade now. It will provide very little over the 900MHz G3, if anything.

This truly sucks...

[Cadaver]

Originally posted by PowerMacMan:
This truly sucks...

It's a bummer, I agree. But I guess there's only so much that can be done for 5-6 year old architecture.

I'm suspecting, however (to try to put a positive spin on things) that for standard desktop apps the G4 may provide the smoothness that the high-speed G3s lack, even with a 66MHz bus. Bandwidth-loving apps (games, rendering, pro graphics, etc) would most likely see little gain.

Had I not bought the $230 900MHz G3 just two months ago, I'd probably still be buying the 800MHz G4 despite the FSB speed hit. For now, however, I'll wait until I see some hard numbers. Here's hoping Mike at xlr8yourmac will get one for review
If it does well, I may still try to unload the 900MHz G3 module and buy the 800MHz G4.