[Railroader]

Originally Posted by starman 

The point is not what RR makes, it's why he thinks that saying TR is a success is giving him too much credit. Anyone, and I mean ANYONE that has survived in this business since 1988 and STILL sells out shows is a goddamn success in my book.

Man, you sure do twist in the wind when the flaws of what you say are pointed out to you...

Doofy said:

out-of-ideas-since-the-second-album career

I said:

You're giving him too much credit

You jumped with:

Yeah, he sucks so badly, that's why he's rolling in the dough. How much have you made?

We were discussing how Reznor is talentless and you jump in with "RAH RAh rha he's loaded and you're a loser!!!1"

Making oodles of money does not equal a highly talented individual. It indicates a great ability at marketing. Or a great desire to make oodles of money and being good at marketing. "A sucker is born every minute".

[Railroader]

Originally Posted by Peter 

how much does railroader earn?

BILLION AND BILLIONS of 1/100ths of a penny.

Last check, I made about $1/hour @ 720 hours/month.

Originally Posted by Dakar the Fourth 

Nothing or close to nothing, IIRC. He's retired to do God's bidding.

"What is thy bidding Master"

Originally Posted by sek929 

Fixinated™

It started itching, so I trimmed it to a #2 clipper. Much sleeker and able to do God's bidding faster.

Originally Posted by Dakar the Fourth 

Hey, that's what I said! Haven't you seen the Ten Commandments? Everybody who's anybody in the Bible has a mean beard because that's God's bidding.

I grow a crappy beard. Bald patches on the sides of my face. I am limited to a mean looking goat or vandyke.

[starman]

I see. So Trent had millions of followers, sells out concerts, but YOU think he's talentless for no reason that you can give. Got it. Maybe ill start listening to Dragonfarce

[turtle777]

$ 750 is just way too much.
(j/k)
-t

[Railroader]

Originally Posted by starman 

I see. So Trent had millions of followers, sells out concerts, but YOU think he's talentless for no reason that you can give. Got it. Maybe ill start listening to Dragonfarce

Brittney Spears, N'Sync, and the Backstreet Boys have all sold more albums and made more money than Reznor. Does that make them more talented?

"Millions of followers" does not equal talented. "Sell out concerts" does not equal talented.

I think he's talentless because the music sucks.

Look, I'll admit I don't like the music. At all. But the God-like status NIN fans give Reznor is creepy. And paying $500 for an album shows the intelligence of NIN fans.

Just sayin'...

[Railroader]

Originally Posted by turtle777 

$ 750 is just way too much.
(j/k)
-t

Not for highly intelligent NIN fans

i see that.

[pooka]

Wait a sec... Does this have anything to do with him saying that dude was dead?

[Doofy]

No pook, it's to do with the fact that he hasn't come out with anything half decent since Pretty Hate Machine.

[hyteckit]

Close to a grand. Damn. Too much.

[Railroader]

Anyone seen it for $999 yet?

[hyteckit]

Originally Posted by turtle777 

$ 750 is just way too much.
(j/k)
-t

I like turtles.

[pooka]

Originally Posted by Doofy 

No pook, it's to do with the fact that he hasn't come out with anything half decent since Pretty Hate Machine.

If you're not into it, you're not into it. But for someone to say that the man who single handedly changed the soundscape of strip clubs has not talent... well, I just have to disagree.

[Dakar the Fourth]

When I can get this for under 2k, call me.

[sek929]

I just found it for 1799 on eBay!

You better buy it before it's gone, Dakar!

[Dakar the Fourth]

I'll bid 2000 Quatloos!

[ort888]

Here's a fun game...

Let's take any musician we don't like and declare them talentless. Weeeeeee!

[smacintush]

Originally Posted by Railroader 

Brittney Spears, N'Sync, and the Backstreet Boys have all sold more albums and made more money than Reznor. Does that make them more talented?

"Millions of followers" does not equal talented. "Sell out concerts" does not equal talented.

I think he's talentless because the music sucks.

Look, I'll admit I don't like the music. At all. But the God-like status NIN fans give Reznor is creepy. And paying $500 for an album shows the intelligence of NIN fans.

Just sayin'...

I agree with what you are saying. Trent Reznor is douche who repeatedly puts out crap after crap. Like Doof said, nothing worth noting since Pretty Hate Machine. And yes, why so many worship him is beyond me.

But really, just because you don't like him he has not talent? Please. Isn't it enough to just say that you can't stand his music? Why does it have to be an indictment of his ability rather than a matter of taste?

[Koralatov]

Originally Posted by smacintush 

I agree with what you are saying. Trent Reznor is douche who repeatedly puts out crap after crap. Like Doof said, nothing worth noting since Pretty Hate Machine. And yes, why so many worship him is beyond me.

Well, many people could say the same about some Apple fans’ love of Steve Jobs. Unfortunately, the human race has a tendency to idolise people, be it Jesus, Ché Guevarra, Trent Reznor or Thom Yorke. And, as such, discussions involving any of the above are liable to turn into flame wars pretty sharpish. Such is life.

Personally, I think his best album was The Fragile. PHM is a bit too immature sounding to me, The Downward Spiral is a definite step in the right direction, but the density and intricacy of sound on The Fragile is, to my mind, what makes it one of the best albums ever released. His lyrics, sadly, are still slightly cringeworthy at times, but his production jobs and composition are fantastic.

But really, just because you don't like him he has not talent? Please. Isn't it enough to just say that you can't stand his music? Why does it have to be an indictment of his ability rather than a matter of taste?

That bothers me too; I’m not really sure whether it’s legitimate to question a man’s talent just because you think his music sounds to you like he’s copulating with a pile of pans and a touch-tone phone. Whilst I don’t hold Reznor up as the Second Coming, I do consider him talented, and this is likely because I enjoy his music.

Before flames start pouring in: yes, I am currently advertising his new album in my sig. Yes, I know he probably doesn’t need the help. And yes, I know “Radiohead did it first”. None of the above points change the fact that I think he’s still deserving of support. That said, I jumped for the $10 ($24 with shipping) double-CD version—I really couldn’t justify spending £35 on an album, no matter how good it is.

[ort888]

I've always had a mild dislike for his music, but I recognize that he has a lot of talent. Music is so incredibly subjective. More then just about anything else. I never try and tell people what they should or should not enjoy.

[Dakar the Fourth]

Originally Posted by ort888 

Here's a fun game...

Let's take any musician we don't like and declare them talentless. Weeeeeee!

Hey, you figured out the pattern! Yay!

[starman]

Originally Posted by Koralatov 

Well, many people could say the same about some Apple fans’ love of Steve Jobs.

There are people out there that have blogs filled with posts about why they hate Steve, like they have nothing better to do than rag on one person.

I have to agree with what people say here - you can DISLIKE someone, but don't call them talentless.

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by starman 

I have to agree with what people say here - you can DISLIKE someone, but don't call them talentless.

I'm gonna blow that argument out of the water with two words:

Steve
Ballmer

[sek929]

You'll get no arguments here...

[Railroader]

Originally Posted by starman 

There are people out there that have blogs filled with posts about why they hate Steve, like they have nothing better to do than rag on one person.

I have to agree with what people say here - you can DISLIKE someone, but don't call them talentless.

OK, I'll admit that he's highly talented at marketing.

Music, the first album was mildly interesting... after that... not so much.

Why didn't you address the money=talent argument points I made?

[Railroader]

Originally Posted by smacintush 

I agree with what you are saying. Trent Reznor is douche who repeatedly puts out crap after crap. Like Doof said, nothing worth noting since Pretty Hate Machine. And yes, why so many worship him is beyond me.

But really, just because you don't like him he has not talent? Please. Isn't it enough to just say that you can't stand his music? Why does it have to be an indictment of his ability rather than a matter of taste?

I never said I didn't like him. I admire his marketing genius!

I also didn't say I can't stand his music. Well, I will now... I can't stand Reznor's music. Just like I can't stand N'Sync, Backstreet Boys, B. Spears, and other low talent artist's music.

Some people just have better taste.

[Railroader]

Originally Posted by Doofy 

I'm gonna blow that argument out of the water with two words:

Steve
Ballmer

I've got four words for you...

"Developers developers developers developers"

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by Railroader 

I've got four words for you...

"Developers developers developers developers"

I have lost the will to live.
OK, not really. I'm happy that I'm not Ballmer.

[starman]

Originally Posted by Railroader 

OK, I'll admit that he's highly talented at marketing.

Music, the first album was mildly interesting... after that... not so much.

Why didn't you address the money=talent argument points I made?

I did.

And why do you have to equate not liking someone to being talentless? I don't like Carrie Underwood but I can tell she's got talent.

[Cipher13]

Reznor has a good attitude, and that should be respected. He's also indisputably a great musician.

PHM through The Fragile are simply brilliant. After that, well...

I personally don't like With Teeth, though Year Zero has some great tracks. The music went in a totally different direction after Still and whatnot (directions had changed before that too, it just happened to be to my liking). That's not to say it's bad, it's just a little ambient for my tastes. I like in-your-face music. If I want to listen to something in the background, it'll probably be Wagner or somesuch.

[Railroader]

Originally Posted by starman 

I did.

Where?!?!

Originally Posted by starman 

And why do you have to equate not liking someone to being talentless? I don't like Carrie Underwood but I can tell she's got talent.

I don't. But I certainly don't think that because someone makes tons of money that they are talented musically like you seem to. There are thousands of highly talented people going bankrupt.

I can't stand Michael Jackson's music, but he is one talented little pedophile.

I also like the music of talentless people. The violent Femmes have very little talent, but I like their music.

[Dakar the Fourth]

Originally Posted by Railroader 

I can't stand Michael Jackson's music, but he is one talented little pedophile.

Did you like it before you thought he was a pedophile?

[Railroader]

Originally Posted by Dakar the Fourth 

Did you like it before you thought he was a pedophile?

I like Off the Wall and Thriller. After that, no.

Was he into the little boys then?

[Dakar the Fourth]

Does that somehow change the music?

Also, if you like Off the Wall and Thriller, then apparently you can stand Michael jackson's music.

[Railroader]

Originally Posted by Dakar the Fourth 

Does that somehow change the music?

Also, if you like Off the Wall and Thriller, then apparently you can stand Michael jackson's music.

It affects a person's feelings while listening to the music. I no longer listen to MJ. And I can't stand to listen to it.

Let me rephrase my statement for the assho lawyers in the room: I think MJ was talented when he made Off the Wall and Thriller, but his talent level decreased significantly and I now consider him talentless. And I can't stand to listen to it.

[::maroma::]

Originally Posted by Railroader 

I can't stand Michael Jackson's music, but he is one talented little pedophile.

Originally Posted by Railroader 

I think MJ was talented when he made Off the Wall and Thriller, but his talent level decreased significantly and I now consider him talentless.

Please clarify for the assho's in the room.

[Koralatov]

Originally Posted by starman 

There are people out there that have blogs filled with posts about why they hate Steve, like they have nothing better to do than rag on one person.

Yeah, it’s pretty sad that some people have nothing better to do than write screeds and screeds about how much of a douche Steve Jobs is. Granted, he’s not a fantastic human being, but, really, I don’t see the point in filling the interwebs with how much you hate him.

[turtle777]

Originally Posted by Railroader 

I've got four words for you...

"Developers developers developers developers"

One talented monkey...

What was that mind experiment: give a monkey and keyboard and computer, and enough time, and it will program *ANY* software in the world ?

-t

[LegendaryPinkOx]

Please tell me that someone photoshopped those sweat-stains on that fat man. My god, if this is the guy hes up against, no wonder why everyone likes Steve Jobs.

[turtle777]

Originally Posted by ::maroma:: 

Please clarify for the assho's in the room.

You FAIL at strikethroughs

-t

[forkies]

zoinks!
"NIN: New Album Pulls In $1.6M In First Week"

[Dakar the Fourth]

Not that hard when the damn thing goes for $4000 each.

I won't stop till this horse is powder.

[starman]

So, the point is that you don't need talent to make money? Gotcha.

[Dakar the Fourth]

Good lord, get the chip off your shoulder. Where have I said anything about Trent Reznor's talent?

Quotes or I want an apology.
We're playing hardball today, baby!

[abbaZaba]

"1978 Volvo 244 GLE...OF DESPAIR"

[::maroma::]

Originally Posted by turtle777 

You FAIL at strikethroughs

-t

Looks to me like I totally succeeded at that particular strikethrough. What are you talkin about?

[- - e r i k - -]

Trent Reznor: Radiohead's 'In Rainbows' promotion was 'insincere' | Tech news blog - CNET News.com

[andreas_g4]

That is a very cool package, but 900 bucks is just ridiculous.

[peeb]

So I downloaded it, and found it unlistenable. I'm not trying to be a hater, but can someone tell me why they like this?

[Railroader]

Originally Posted by peeb 

So I downloaded it, and found it unlistenable. I'm not trying to be a hater, but can someone tell me why they like this?

But Reznor makes like ba-zillions of dollars!!! The package sells for like $1.2bn right now.

[davesimondotcom]

I can understand not having a taste for NIN music. But I can't understand calling Trent Reznor talentless or saying he hasn't done anything since the Downward Spiral.

Here's my take on the main Halos, I won't go through all 26.

Pretty Hate Machine - Trent was still finding his musical voice. He evolved from a Depeche Mode-esque sound to a much more unique sound.

Broken - Trent draws the line. PHM was one thing, this is another. I'm a composer as much as I am a pop musician. Broken was a long-time favorite of mine. It's highs and lows are very evocative. I just listened to Broken today, actually.

Fixed - A remix Halo, but worth mentioning because it's one of my faves.

The Downward Spiral - A full-on concept album about the psyche of a person falling into depression. Perhaps it speaks most to me because of my history of depression. This is when Trent first hit big with "Closer" but, really, it was one of my least favorite tracks on the album.

The Fragile - After a fairly long period of "silence," Trent gave us a double album. Overall, it's brilliant, but there are some weaker tracks. It's Downward Spiral, lengthened. But it has a "light at the end of the tunnel" feeling that Downward spiral only hinted at with the almost hidden "I will find a way" at the end of Hurt.

With Teeth - Obviously, this is Trent's weakest album. But we all know that. Right? There are some good tracks but overall, it's nothing groundbreaking.

Year Zero - I've just recently gotten more into this album. I like the dystopian future concept, and it's Trent going away from feelings of interior dread to feelings of external dread.

Ghosts I-IV - I enjoy listening to this at work but it's overall inconsistent. But still well worth every bit of the $5 I paid!