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Easter Miracle in Alaska
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AKcrab
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Apr 16, 2004, 06:09 PM
 
A large crucifix that has hung for years in a church in Marshall is causing a stir after villagers claim it started bleeding.

The statue of the crucified Christ began leaking from classic stigmata points on Sunday or Monday and has continued to do so, according to witnesses.

Mayor Ray Alstrom, reached by phone Thursday, refused to comment, citing the "separation of church and state." But others were more than happy to share the news.

The "miracle of Marshall," a Yup'ik village of 360 people on the lower Yukon River, began during midnight Easter services at Immaculate Heart of Mary Catholic Church, resident Maureen Fitka-Larson said, although only a few people noticed it then.

"They were too scared to say anything," said Fitka-Larson, who belongs to the local Russian Orthodox church but has been visiting Immaculate Heart every day this week to pray and watch the statue.

"Since that evening and continuing up to today, the crucifix is still bleeding," she said. "You wouldn't see it dripping or anything, but over a period of time. You go up and check it the next day, you notice."

It is unclear if the statue had any painted blood as part of its original design. But Fitka-Larson said the new blood has dripped noticeably on the statue's loincloth.
Anchorage Daily News Full Story


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ThinkInsane
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Apr 16, 2004, 06:32 PM
 
How can commenting on an incident occurring in your town violate the separation church and state? maybe he should learn what the hell separation of church and state actually means. People are so... dumb.

As to the bleeding statue, well, huh.
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xenu
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Apr 16, 2004, 07:08 PM
 
I wonder how Christians would react to this sort of thing if they knew the origins of their beliefs - pretty much stolen from the older Hindu and Egyptian religions.

Some guy dying, then rising a few days later was 'so last century' by the time jesus came around.
Religion is an insult to human dignity. With or without it, you'd have good people doing good things and evil people doing bad things, but for good people to do bad things, it takes religion - Steven Weinberg.
     
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Apr 16, 2004, 07:17 PM
 
Originally posted by xenu:
I wonder how Christians would react to this sort of thing if they knew the origins of their beliefs - pretty much stolen from the older Hindu and Egyptian religions.

Some guy dying, then rising a few days later was 'so last century' by the time jesus came around.
Probably, a lot like me. Don't really f/cking care.

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ghost_flash
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Apr 16, 2004, 07:29 PM
 
Originally posted by xenu:
I wonder how Christians would react to this sort of thing if they knew the origins of their beliefs - pretty much stolen from the older Hindu and Egyptian religions.

Some guy dying, then rising a few days later was 'so last century' by the time jesus came around.
I read Angels & Demons too.
...
     
CharlesS
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Apr 16, 2004, 08:55 PM
 
Originally posted by xenu:
I wonder how Christians would react to this sort of thing if they knew the origins of their beliefs - pretty much stolen from the older Hindu and Egyptian religions.

Some guy dying, then rising a few days later was 'so last century' by the time jesus came around.
Link please?

As for the statue, since it doesn't accumulate at a noticeable rate, how can they tell that this isn't some guy sneaking up when no one is looking and getting creative with red paint (or actual blood, if he wanted to be more realistic)?
     
DeathToWindows
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Apr 16, 2004, 09:06 PM
 
death is skeptical as usual.

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brapper
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Apr 16, 2004, 09:12 PM
 
Originally posted by ghost_flash:
I read Angels & Demons too.
hahaha
me three!
     
mitchell_pgh
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Apr 16, 2004, 10:07 PM
 
I would bet cash that when a local scientist first says "Mind if I take a sample of blood" everyone in town freaks out (especially the priest).

"You have no right"
"It's Gods will!"
"Why can't you just believe"
"No need to... it's proof enough for us?"
"Why can't you just accept a miracle?"

same old bs, new century...
     
Tulkas
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Apr 16, 2004, 11:18 PM
 
Originally posted by xenu:
I wonder how Christians would react to this sort of thing if they knew the origins of their beliefs - pretty much stolen from the older Hindu and Egyptian religions.

Some guy dying, then rising a few days later was 'so last century' by the time jesus came around.
I've heard that quite a bit, although I also heard the end of the world is tomorrow several times as well... okay to be honest it was next month. Would be nice to see something about this that isn't biased tripe by some hard-core-athiest.

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OH-N'omac
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Apr 16, 2004, 11:26 PM
 
You wouldn't see it dripping or anything, but over a period of time. You go up and check it the next day, you notice."
The same thing used to happen to me. I'd leave a tooth under my pillow at night. I didn't see the tooth fairy or anything, but I'd look under my pillow the next day and notice a shiny quarter there.
     
Shaddim
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Apr 16, 2004, 11:38 PM
 
Originally posted by OH-N'omac:
The same thing used to happen to me. I'd leave a tooth under my pillow at night. I didn't see the tooth fairy or anything, but I'd look under my pillow the next day and notice a shiny quarter there.
Hah! She ripped you off, I got a buck.
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xenu
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Apr 17, 2004, 05:51 AM
 
LOL.

Since you all agree education is a good thing, I will leave it to the student to study the following virgin births ...

Adonis
Horus
Krishna
Buddha

all long before jesus. There are many more.

Buddha also performed miracles and cured the sick.
As did Horus, who also walked on water.
And Krishna, who would have guessed?
There are many more.

Then there was the death and ressurection of

Attis
Mithra
Prometheus.

Did I mention prometheus was nailed to a rock?

I leave it to the student to find more. Extra marks for those of you who find the dates the above were born. Hint: it's really easy to guess.
Religion is an insult to human dignity. With or without it, you'd have good people doing good things and evil people doing bad things, but for good people to do bad things, it takes religion - Steven Weinberg.
     
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Apr 17, 2004, 05:57 AM
 
Originally posted by xenu:
I wonder how Christians would react to this sort of thing if they knew the origins of their beliefs - pretty much stolen from the older Hindu and Egyptian religions.

Some guy dying, then rising a few days later was 'so last century' by the time jesus came around.
oh you mean like the beleif in monkeys, elephants, cows, foxes and hawks ? yeah Christianity has so much of that going on in it.

If anything Christianity is based off Jewdaism(or is a subset in a way) and older European/Mediterranean pagan religions. (At least the dates we celebrate our festivals coincide with pagan festivals) Like easter is around the same time pagans used to celebrate the arrival of spring, etc.

The fact that reincarnation, resurrection,etc are part of other religions, dosent mean they were based off each other. People, for the most part have feared death and these religions merely accomodated for them. As for miracles.... find me any ancient religion that dosent make that claim. Similarities does not mean one as based off the other.

Religion = rules to live your life by. And i think it's a safe assumption that most of them preach about the same thing. As far as supernaturals go, they differ quite a bit.
     
xenu
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Apr 17, 2004, 06:17 AM
 
Originally posted by Hawkeye_a:

The fact that reincarnation, resurrection,etc are part of other religions, dosent mean they were based off each other.
.

So we should ignore all similarities of birth, birthday, miracles, death, method of death and ressurection?

Christianity has too much in common with the older religions for it to be a coincidence.
Religion is an insult to human dignity. With or without it, you'd have good people doing good things and evil people doing bad things, but for good people to do bad things, it takes religion - Steven Weinberg.
     
sanity assassin
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Apr 17, 2004, 06:29 AM
 
Originally posted by Hawkeye_a:
oh you mean like the beleif in monkeys, elephants, cows, foxes and haw
No, but the fact that the Hebrews were in Egypt for hundreds of years, kinda shows us that they had the opportunity to be influenced. The Jews in Babylon, they were bombarded by Persian, and Iraqi influence, this is the moment when Ezra compiled what we know as the hebrew Bible, well most orf it, before him, there's virtually nothing to even show us that the Hebrews even existed, just scant references. It's also the time when the Jews incorporated the notion of heaven and hell, Satan, all Persian.
Paul, the man behind what we can assume is Christianity, born in modern day Turkey, a man surrounded by Mithraism, a religion that just so happens to mirror the peculiar beliefs of Pauline Christianity. Then we have Jesus, a man who, according to some sources, visited India, I'm sure he didn't just go there to not be influenced by Buddhism.

That's just a scant mention of how Christianity is probably a mish-mash of all those faiths, and religions. It doesn't detract from what each inmdividual spiritual personality might have experienced, but when it comes to dogma, doctrine, religion, then it can be shown that Christianity, like any other religion, borrows heavily from surounding peoples, on top of their new ideaology.

In summary, it can be said that both Judaism, and Christianity erupt out of a time when similar beliefs are around, they might present a twist on things, but not much, and no different to other forgotten religions that existed prior to, and afterwards.
( Last edited by sanity assassin; Apr 17, 2004 at 06:36 AM. )
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Hawkeye_a
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Apr 17, 2004, 06:57 AM
 
Originally posted by xenu:
.

So we should ignore all similarities of birth, birthday, miracles, death, method of death and ressurection?

Christianity has too much in common with the older religions for it to be a coincidence.
The similarities are across the board with religions, not just with christianity, so claiming that christians copied others is folly imo. And i think Jewdaism,Islam and Christianity collectively compared to other older pagan religion have more differences than similarities. Thats just from my own experience.

Prodestants stemed from catholism, which stemmed from Jewdaism, etc,etc.... there is an evolution, definately, but to say one is based/copied from the other is kinda extreme.

things like birth, birthday, miracles, death and ressurection are something all people, irrespective of culture or geographical location regard in the same way(for the most part). it seems only fitting that all religions throughout time offer some sort of 'comfort' regarding those issues.

As far as the 'sory' goes..... you could argue that they are all similar and christianity is merely a hack. but for heavens sake, it all boils down to good versus evil dosent it ? in any religion !

the ideas of supernaturals, good versus evil, happiness, purity, death(and resurrection) are almost universal ideas when it comes to religions, irrespective of time. Why ? cause people seem to care about those things when it comes to spirituality, irrespective of geographical location.

Similarities, yes. copied ? doubt it.

If anything, i think the catholic church(i can only talk about them, since i am catholic) incorporated certain pagan dogma/rituals to encourage converts. Things like Easter, christmas and Halloween for example. seem to fall on days ver close tothe equinox, and one at the end of the calendar year.
( Last edited by Hawkeye_a; Apr 17, 2004 at 07:03 AM. )
     
sanity assassin
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Apr 17, 2004, 07:34 AM
 
Originally posted by Hawkeye_a:
The similarities are across the board with religions, not just with christianity, so claiming that christians copied others is folly imo.
In you opinion, but the hisotry of mankind, and the devolpment of belief, ritual, and social structures would say otherwise. It;s not about counting up what elements are similar, and what aren't; it;s taking a look at the environment from which they sprung up, loking for various similar traits that are identifiable. One example, Heaven and hell, a notion alien to the Jewish mind prior to the Babyloniam captivity. Afyterwards, and after infusing with the Persian mindset, the Jews from this time onwards they became known as Jews), suddenly have this new conceot within trheir scriptures, not all buy it, but enough to make it into thre apocryphal books. So, with Christianity coming along, they didn't have to borrow wholsesale from Judaism, but enough to form a basis, amd that included the idea of heaven and hell. Now, we can show where this idea came from, so direct linkage is possible. If we can do that for one thing, then it's possible to do it for others. What this shows, is that the basis for a new religion can be shown to come out of what existed already, just a new slant on things.
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sanity assassin
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Apr 17, 2004, 07:38 AM
 
Originally posted by Hawkeye_a:

Similarities, yes. copied ? doubt it.
Copied? easily proven. Not just in beliefs, but in plagiarism to emphasise a particular point. If that is happenening, then where lies the truth? there's many examples in the Christian NT of direct passages being copied word for word from the Jewish Bible, only problem is, the copiers had no clue ad to what the original passages meant, and huge errors in meaning is preserved for all to see. It's my opinion that the bible doctrine is composed of faintly new ideas, backed up by ancient ones, mixed in with current trends of the time.
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sanity assassin
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Apr 17, 2004, 07:44 AM
 
I've not got time this afternoon to go into majordetail about this, but here's one common example of similarities between Christianity, and Mithraism. This might seem innocuous on the surface, but remember, Paul was born into a world surrounded by Mithraic beliefs, raised in one of the epi-centres of it. It's not a huge leap of imagination to think that someone who grew up around such common beliefs, would later incorporate it into his new religion.


From about.com
Among the recorded possible similarities between Christianity and Mithraism are the following:

* Virgin birth
* Twelve followers
* Killing and resurrection
* Miracles
* Birthdate on December 25
* Morality
* Mankind's savior
* Known as the Light of the world
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willed
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Apr 17, 2004, 08:13 AM
 
Originally posted by xenu:
.

So we should ignore all similarities of birth, birthday, miracles, death, method of death and ressurection?

Christianity has too much in common with the older religions for it to be a coincidence.
You are wrong.

Hawkeye is right.

Trust me. Theology is what I do.
     
sanity assassin
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Apr 17, 2004, 10:25 AM
 
Originally posted by willed:
You are wrong.

Hawkeye is right.

Trust me. Theology is what I do.
Right in which way? In that we have a history full of dead beliefs, cults, religions, most of which we mock today, but yet, we have Christianity, which shares very similar structures, and articles, but yet we somehow give it credance? How about we just lump Christianity into the same zone as those omes, since it's structure is pretty damn similar to the dead Greek, and Roman cults.

What seems more likely? That another religion sprouts up out of the Mid-East, bearing the hallmarks of the current trends at that time, and whose formation can probably be attributed to more mundane aspects; or that a man, named Jesus, who was also part of a god head, who was born of a virgin, who just happens to be her maker?


Uh huh.
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dcmacdaddy
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Apr 17, 2004, 10:56 AM
 
Originally posted by xenu:
.

So we should ignore all similarities of birth, birthday, miracles, death, method of death and ressurection?

Christianity has too much in common with the older religions for it to be a coincidence.


Originally posted by willed:
You are wrong.

Hawkeye is right.

Trust me. Theology is what I do.
Nice logical argument you formulated there, Reverend.
"He's right, you're wrong. I'm a religious expert so I can say this and you should believe me."
Nothing like sticking to the basics of binary opposition in your argument.

It seems to me that we have two different arguments going on here: One is trying to compare the possible similarities among pre-Christian religions to the Judeo-Christian religion that developed around Jesus Christ; The other argument assumes these similarities as fact and is trying to use them as a basis for discounting the life/story of Jesus.

For argument one, any cursory study of comparative religion, mythology, or anthropology WILL show similarities of practice and belief among many pre-Christian religions. And a comparison of those practices and beliefs with Christianity WILL show similarities between pre-Christian and Christian beliefs and practices. Christianity didn't develop in a cultural vacuum so it would be illogical to assume that there would not be cross/trans-cultural exchanges taking place. However, using this fact (of cultural exchange) as a basis for discounting the life/story of Jesus and early Christianity is bunk and a totally fallacious logical footing to try and stand on. If you've got a problem with Christianity then come right out and say so, don't hide behind the "Jesus sucks because they were copying the <fill in the blank> religion".

This is coming from an atheist (who happens to have a deep interest in mythical and/or religious texts as examples of fine literature).


<damn typos. The devil made me do it.>
( Last edited by dcmacdaddy; Apr 17, 2004 at 11:05 AM. )
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xenu
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Apr 17, 2004, 06:39 PM
 
Originally posted by willed:
You are wrong.

Hawkeye is right.

Trust me. Theology is what I do.
LOL.

I trust the evidence.
Religion is an insult to human dignity. With or without it, you'd have good people doing good things and evil people doing bad things, but for good people to do bad things, it takes religion - Steven Weinberg.
     
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Apr 18, 2004, 12:23 AM
 
Oi vey, so many comments, so few good comments.

This is incredibly easy to explain if you recognize that there is universal truth, all people know certain things to be true, Christianity is simply the culmanation of the most truths coming togeather and sheding light on one another.

As for things being done, who HASN'T thought of people coming back from the dead as being cool? That's hardly something that you could state anyone ripped off from one another. Who hasn't wanted to heal the sick, or rise from the dead, the point is not whether or not people thought it up before it happened, the point is that in Jesus it did happen.
     
AKcrab  (op)
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Apr 18, 2004, 12:30 AM
 
Originally posted by Superchic[k]en:
Who hasn't wanted to heal the sick, or rise from the dead, the point is not whether or not people thought it up before it happened, the point is that in Jesus it did happen.
Most times something "rises from the dead" it's considered evil... Wonder why people didn't think Satan was involved with the resurrection?
     
xenu
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Apr 18, 2004, 02:21 AM
 
Originally posted by Superchic[k]en:
... the point is that in Jesus it did happen.
No, the point is that christianity plagarised this concept from earlier religions.

The entire jesus myth was stolen from earlier religions.
I guess that is easier than making up your own.
Religion is an insult to human dignity. With or without it, you'd have good people doing good things and evil people doing bad things, but for good people to do bad things, it takes religion - Steven Weinberg.
     
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Apr 18, 2004, 02:32 AM
 
     
OH-N'omac
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Apr 18, 2004, 02:52 AM
 
Originally posted by Superchic[k]en:
This is incredibly easy to explain if you recognize that there is universal truth, all people know certain things to be true, Christianity is simply the culmanation of the most truths coming togeather and sheding light on one another.
so, christianity is truth because you "know" it is...or all people "know" it is, except all those people who "know" it isn't, but they don't count.

is that really the best you can do?
     
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Apr 18, 2004, 03:58 AM
 
Originally posted by xenu:
No, the point is that christianity plagarised this concept from earlier religions.

The entire jesus myth was stolen from earlier religions.
I guess that is easier than making up your own.
Slow down there, and back that train up.

The existence of spirituality and supernaturals can e refuted and discussed. But i honestly think that a MAN by the name of JESUS did exist 2000 years ago. and what 'earthly' things the books say he did, he probably did do. Jesus , is not a 'Myth' beleiving in gods which are half elephant and human, or half money n human are myths.

Why is Jesus not a myth ? cause he is accounted for in more than one source of information. He is not only menioned in Christianity.

And i doub the early christians went around the world and plagarized bits and pieces to form a new religion. thats kindof rediculious. so simmer down. the ideas of birth, death, purity, reincarnation are not mutually exclusive to any particular religion.

There is a natural evolution and progression of everything...like religion, human traits, technology. We are merely standing on the shoulders of those who came before us, and there is no plagarism in that. If according to your twisted theories developed due to your resentment of christianity, where, in your opinion would you say that 'hinduism', 'budhism',etc,etc originate from ? and would it be safe to say that they too are merely hacks of an even older religion ?
     
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Apr 18, 2004, 05:17 AM
 
Originally posted by Hawkeye_a:
Slow down there, and back that train up.

The existence of spirituality and supernaturals can e refuted and discussed. But i honestly think that a MAN by the name of JESUS did exist 2000 years ago. and what 'earthly' things the books say he did, he probably did do. Jesus , is not a 'Myth' beleiving in gods which are half elephant and human, or half money n human are myths.

Why is Jesus not a myth ? cause he is accounted for in more than one source of information. He is not only menioned in Christianity.

And i doub the early christians went around the world and plagarized bits and pieces to form a new religion. thats kindof rediculious. so simmer down. the ideas of birth, death, purity, reincarnation are not mutually exclusive to any particular religion.

There is a natural evolution and progression of everything...like religion, human traits, technology. We are merely standing on the shoulders of those who came before us, and there is no plagarism in that. If according to your twisted theories developed due to your resentment of christianity, where, in your opinion would you say that 'hinduism', 'budhism',etc,etc originate from ? and would it be safe to say that they
too are merely hacks of an even older religion ?
Fair and level headed post, I commend you... apparently however many people in this post do not realize that originality does not make right, and sometimes things should be lke other things. How is God's redemptive plan for those He values supposed to work, if it's so new and unaccessable to them that they can't even use it, that would make no sense. The process of salvation is an art work that aludes to many other works of God, but Salvation would arguably be His greatest. We do not call a poem plagirsm if it aludes to shakespear, we call that poet better than someone who does not know how to alude.

You're all so this western/american/modernish to postmodern/closed minded/social bubble like. If you can't understand the basis behind what you are attacking, perhaps you should wisely keep your mouth shut until you have a better understanding than "I don't like church people, therefore they must be wrong" otherwise you're simply an ignorant bigot, (no matter how much you pretend to have a grasp on)
     
xenu
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Apr 18, 2004, 05:38 AM
 
LOL.

I refute the origins of the 'jesus myth' because I resent christianity? LOL.

I refute the myth because it was stolen. Plagarised.
So what if jesus existed? He probably did. That's not the point. The point is, the myth created after he died was taken from older religions.

Believing that jesus did something that a dozen others supposedly did before him, and then claiming only he really did it is no different from believing in 'half elephant half human' dieties.

If I wrote a play that used shakespear's characters and plots, and called it something else, I would indeed be accused of plagarism, and rightly so.

A petunia by any other name ...
Religion is an insult to human dignity. With or without it, you'd have good people doing good things and evil people doing bad things, but for good people to do bad things, it takes religion - Steven Weinberg.
     
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Apr 18, 2004, 06:26 AM
 
Originally posted by Superchic[k]en:
You're all so this western/american/modernish to postmodern/closed minded/social bubble like. If you can't understand the basis behind what you are attacking, perhaps you should wisely keep your mouth shut until you have a better understanding than "I don't like church people, therefore they must be wrong" otherwise you're simply an ignorant bigot, (no matter how much you pretend to have a grasp on)
i'm assuming that wasnt directed at me.
( Last edited by Hawkeye_a; Apr 18, 2004 at 06:33 AM. )
     
Hawkeye_a
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Apr 18, 2004, 06:33 AM
 
Originally posted by xenu:
LOL.

I refute the origins of the 'jesus myth' because I resent christianity? LOL.

I refute the myth because it was stolen. Plagarised.
So what if jesus existed? He probably did. That's not the point. The point is, the myth created after he died was taken from older religions.

Believing that jesus did something that a dozen others supposedly did before him, and then claiming only he really did it is no different from believing in 'half elephant half human' dieties.

If I wrote a play that used shakespear's characters and plots, and called it something else, I would indeed be accused of plagarism, and rightly so.

A petunia by any other name ...
Well.... given that:
1. you probably will use the english language to write the play
2. your play has the elements of love, tragedy, etc...
3. Yo uhave a nose, ears, eyes, hands and feet like shakespear.

then by your definition, yes it is plagarism.

(please recognize the scarcasm in my post, and that by your definition, probably eveything written after shakespear, whether influenced or not, is plagarism)

I guess for the sake of originality, Jesus/the early christians should have used a chicken, koala or something more original to teach people about the universial truths and mysteries of spirituality, love, birth, death and resurrection.

I have to say that you are probably the most anally retentive person ive ever had the misfortune of having a discussion with.

So what say you on my question about hinduism, budhism pagans,etc.. plagarizing even older religions ? or do you just plan on dodging this question ?
     
Hawkeye_a
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Apr 18, 2004, 06:38 AM
 
Originally posted by xenu:

I refute the myth because it was stolen. Plagarised.
What has originality got to do with whether or not it really did happen ?

Windows plagarized the Mac that dosent mean Windows dosent exist. your logic is flawed, and i think youve completely missed the plot on religion by getting all tied up with literal meanings.
     
xenu
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Apr 18, 2004, 07:12 AM
 
Originally posted by Hawkeye_a:
Well.... given that:
1. you probably will use the english language to write the play
2. your play has the elements of love, tragedy, etc...
3. Yo uhave a nose, ears, eyes, hands and feet like shakespear.

then by your definition, yes it is plagarism.

(please recognize the scarcasm in my post, and that by your definition, probably eveything written after shakespear, whether influenced or not, is plagarism)

I guess for the sake of originality, Jesus/the early christians should have used a chicken, koala or something more original to teach people about the universial truths and mysteries of spirituality, love, birth, death and resurrection.

I have to say that you are probably the most anally retentive person ive ever had the misfortune of having a discussion with.

So what say you on my question about hinduism, budhism pagans,etc.. plagarizing even older religions ? or do you just plan on dodging this question ?
I imagine you are being obtuse because you refuse to see the massive similarities that exist between the jesus myth and the beliefs that came well before him - I have stated them above - the virgin births, the miracles, the type of death and the rebirth. I don't mean slightly similar, I mean pretty much identical.

No doubt you believe I can write a story about a boy wizard (who doesn't know his origins) growing up with non wizards and going to a wizard school. There will be an elderly headmaster wizard, and a couple of friends. Hijinks ensure. Do you honestly believe I could write this book and not be accused of plagarism?

What question am I dodging? All religions are based on older beliefs. There will be differences due to geographic location. Only you seem to believe that jesus was somehow special. That only these myths were true when it comes to him. That christianity is somehow special, or different. Utter nonsense.

I believe insults are the common refuge of those with nothing to say, or arguments worth noting.
( Last edited by xenu; Apr 18, 2004 at 07:31 AM. )
Religion is an insult to human dignity. With or without it, you'd have good people doing good things and evil people doing bad things, but for good people to do bad things, it takes religion - Steven Weinberg.
     
xenu
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Apr 18, 2004, 07:15 AM
 
Originally posted by Hawkeye_a:
What has originality got to do with whether or not it really did happen ?

Windows plagarized the Mac that dosent mean Windows dosent exist. your logic is flawed, and i think youve completely missed the plot on religion by getting all tied up with literal meanings.
Then I guess you agree with me, that neither christianity nor jesus are special. That they are just copies of older beliefs.

That the myth created after jesus died was simply copied wholesale from older beliefs, and shouldn't be taken literally.
Religion is an insult to human dignity. With or without it, you'd have good people doing good things and evil people doing bad things, but for good people to do bad things, it takes religion - Steven Weinberg.
     
Hawkeye_a
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Apr 18, 2004, 07:37 AM
 
Originally posted by xenu:
Then I guess you agree with me, that neither christianity nor jesus are special. That they are just copies of older beliefs.

That the myth created after jesus died was simply copied wholesale from older beliefs, and shouldn't be taken literally.
Ummm... nope i dont agree with you. as i said...similarities, yes. copied, doubt it ? Get it ? why ? because as i have stated.... birth,death, resurrection, etc... are something people irrespective of location and time, tendo be concerned about. Jesus and Christianity is NOT a hack job of badly plagarized work. At most it would be an evolution of past religions to appeal to the tastes of moraliy of that time.

Ghandi has been compared to socrates, but would you claim that ghandi is a mere plagarized version of socrates ? get it ? as unique as we all are , there are certain fundamental similarities, especially when given a particular time frame. Back then, crusification might have been of particular signifance so jesus and those before him could have equally gone through similar experiences. The United States has been compared to empires before it, but is it a plagerized copy/version of old ?


What i call natural evolution, you call plagarized.i seem to be willing to learn to it and see it in a positive light and take from it what was probably intended. You on the other hand are playing the word game, obsessed with literal meanings and the only contribution you have to make is to point an accusing finger. You, dude, have missed the plot.

Cheers

P.S.>> i think i might be patronizing your stupidity, so i better stop
     
xenu
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Apr 18, 2004, 07:55 AM
 
Originally posted by Hawkeye_a:
Ummm... nope i dont agree with you. as i said...similarities, yes. copied, doubt it ? Get it ? why ? because as i have stated.... birth,death, resurrection, etc... are something people irrespective of location and time, tendo be concerned about. Jesus and Christianity is NOT a hack job of badly plagarized work. At most it would be an evolution of past religions to appeal to the tastes of moraliy of that time.

Ghandi has been compared to socrates, but would you claim that ghandi is a mere plagarized version of socrates ? get it ? as unique as we all are , there are certain fundamental similarities, especially when given a particular time frame. Back then, crusification might have been of particular signifance so jesus and those before him could have equally gone through similar experiences. The United States has been compared to empires before it, but is it a plagerized copy/version of old ?


What i call natural evolution, you call plagarized.i seem to be willing to learn to it and see it in a positive light and take from it what was probably intended. You on the other hand are playing the word game, obsessed with literal meanings and the only contribution you have to make is to point an accusing finger. You, dude, have missed the plot.

Cheers

P.S.>> i think i might be patronizing your stupidity, so i better stop
Now I know you have no argument worth stating.

Did ghandi take socrates words and call them his own?

So I can create a religion where the main dude has a virgin birth, has 12 main followers, walks on water, heals the sick, gets nailed to a piece of wood, and turns up a few days later, and it will simply be an evolution of past religions?

Yeah, right.

I think I'll call my wizard series, 'the adventures of barry hotter'. I imagine you would like a signed copy.
Religion is an insult to human dignity. With or without it, you'd have good people doing good things and evil people doing bad things, but for good people to do bad things, it takes religion - Steven Weinberg.
     
CharlesS
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Apr 18, 2004, 11:37 AM
 
I keep getting the argument from Christians that their religion is the only one in which:

1. Someone comes to Earth and claims to be God

2. Dies, and:

3. Rises from the dead.

This is why I want a link. Could someone please provide one, from a reputable source? I can do a Google search, but I get a lot of contradictory information. If there were a nice, reputable link I could print out, I might be able to get certain people to leave me alone.
     
   
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