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Maflynn · Jan 9, 2009, 08:53 AM

Looks like Chrysler is in really sad shape, much much worse then its other beleaguered counterparts

Things were so bad last year that a single Toyota model, the Camry/Solara midsize car, outsold the entire fleet of Chrysler LLC’s passenger cars.

The above statement is absolutely stunning

One single Toyota model outsold Chrysler's entire fleet.

Here's the msnbc article that reports the sad state of affairs for Chrysler. Being a "Chrysler" man for many many years only buying Chrysler, I find this sad.

The bailout will only forestall the inevitable for Chrysler it appears, sales were down 53 percent and the corporation is being run by an investment firm, there's little desire for them to try to right the ship, but rather slap some lipstick on the pig and sell it to the highest or more accurately bidder .

Dakar V · Jan 9, 2009, 08:56 AM

This isn't possible. The Dodge Durango is best car ever built.

Maflynn · Jan 9, 2009, 08:57 AM

Sorry, I have to disagree, the original Plymouth Duster was the best car ever built.

OldManMac · Jan 9, 2009, 09:09 AM

Yet the government gave them our money anyway. I've been saying they're toast for years, and I'll stick to my prediction that GM, and Ford, are toast as well. They all have too many dealers, chasing too few customers, and nobody wants to give in, so the end result will be their demise.

Maflynn · Jan 9, 2009, 09:13 AM

I think GM and Ford have a fighting chance IF they make some drastic changes to their business model. I think Chrysler is a goner though. While the bailout's appropriateness is debatable, it does offer GM and Ford a fighting chance to remain.

ctt1wbw · Jan 9, 2009, 09:17 AM

Originally Posted by OldManMac

Yet the government gave them our money anyway. I've been saying they're toast for years, and I'll stick to my prediction that GM, and Ford, are toast as well. They all have too many dealers, chasing too few customers, and nobody wants to give in, so the end result will be their demise.

It's a LOAN. Loans have to be repayed.

ctt1wbw · Jan 9, 2009, 09:17 AM

Originally Posted by Dakar V

This isn't possible. The Dodge Durango is best car ever built.

Nope, that title belongs to the Kia Sportage.

Spheric Harlot · Jan 9, 2009, 09:20 AM

Originally Posted by ctt1wbw

It's a LOAN. Loans have to be repayed.

Ever see a bankrupt company pay back loans?

What's left goes to pensioners, employees, and corporate creditors. You can be sure that government loans are the LAST on the list of debts to be paid, i.e. forget the money.

ctt1wbw · Jan 9, 2009, 09:23 AM

Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot

Ever see a bankrupt company pay back loans?

What's left goes to pensioners, employees, and corporate creditors. You can be sure that government loans are the LAST on the list of debts to be paid, i.e. forget the money.

Chrysler did it before, dude. How old are you?

Andy8 · Jan 9, 2009, 09:29 AM

What about when the whole country is bankrupt?

ctt1wbw · Jan 9, 2009, 09:30 AM

Which country? It'll never happen.

Maflynn · Jan 9, 2009, 09:54 AM

Originally Posted by ctt1wbw

It's a LOAN. Loans have to be repayed.

and if they go under how will they repay that loan back?

Even if they fail the conditions of the loans that were set forth, they've used the money already so if they have to repay it back later this year (by failing to comply with the conditions) they'll not have the cash to repay it.

While its called a loan, I think most people will be surprised if they ever do pay it off. I mean all of the auto companies not just Chrysler.

Spheric Harlot · Jan 9, 2009, 09:54 AM

Originally Posted by ctt1wbw

Chrysler did it before, dude. How old are you?

They didn't go under then, did they?

Does age matter to you?

OldManMac · Jan 9, 2009, 10:03 AM

Originally Posted by ctt1wbw

Chrysler did it before, dude. How old are you?

I know you're not addressing me, but I was around 40 when Chrysler did it before. This time is different, as there is much more competition, and the $4 billion they got is a drop in the bucket compared to what they need. Chrysler is toast, therefore it is not a loan, it is money thrown away, and it just so happens to be our money, not some mythical being that's handing it out because of the goodness of its heart.

turtle777 · Jan 9, 2009, 10:11 AM

Originally Posted by ctt1wbw

Which country? It'll never happen.

Yes, it's a myth that Argentina, once one of the richest countries in the world, went bankrupt.

Like I said before: Nothing is ever too big to fail. The US is not invincible. The USD is absolutely dead due to the monetary policy of the Fed and Treasury.

-t

ctt1wbw · Jan 9, 2009, 10:35 AM

Well, I have more purchasing power with the US dollar than with the Euro. Having been to much of Europe pre-Euro, then post-Euro, it baffles me how they survive over there. It costs a ****ing arm and a leg to eat dinner in Naples now with the Euro. When it was with the Lira, I could party and eat and drink for week for cheap.

ctt1wbw · Jan 9, 2009, 10:36 AM

Plus a weak dollar is good for overseas tourism. People get more dollars for their currency.

badidea · Jan 9, 2009, 10:45 AM

Originally Posted by ctt1wbw

Well, I have more purchasing power with the US dollar than with the Euro. Having been to much of Europe pre-Euro, then post-Euro, it baffles me how they survive over there. It costs a ****ing arm and a leg to eat dinner in Naples now with the Euro. When it was with the Lira, I could party and eat and drink for week for cheap.

Somewhere there's an error hidden in this text!

Plus a weak dollar is good for overseas tourism. People get more dollars for their currency.

Oh, there it is!

ctt1wbw · Jan 9, 2009, 10:49 AM

What's the error?

badidea · Jan 9, 2009, 11:02 AM

You do not have more purchasing power with the dollar!
That's why it costs a ****ing arm and leg for you and not for us and that's why people get more dollars for their currency!

Spheric Harlot · Jan 9, 2009, 11:12 AM

Originally Posted by ctt1wbw

Well, I have more purchasing power with the US dollar than with the Euro.

You're either saying that you think "more purchasing power" means that your local 7-11 won't accept Euros, or ... I really have no idea what you're "thinking".

Originally Posted by ctt1wbw

Having been to much of Europe pre-Euro, then post-Euro, it baffles me how they survive over there.

It's quite simple, really: We get paid in Euros.

ctt1wbw · Jan 9, 2009, 11:51 AM

Originally Posted by badidea

You do not have more purchasing power with the dollar!
That's why it costs a ****ing arm and leg for you and not for us and that's why people get more dollars for their currency!

I mean it's cheaper to buy stuff in the US now than it is to buy the equivalent in Europe. I get more for my dollar here in the US than I do in Europe, hence more purchasing power. I don't live in Europe.

ctt1wbw · Jan 9, 2009, 11:52 AM

Do you like it, or do you miss the old currency?

Spheric Harlot · Jan 9, 2009, 12:09 PM

Originally Posted by ctt1wbw

I mean it's cheaper to buy stuff in the US now than it is to buy the equivalent in Europe. I get more for my dollar here in the US than I do in Europe, hence more purchasing power. I don't live in Europe.

We get more for our Euros over in the US than we do here in Europe, as well. In fact, we get more for our Euros over in the US than you do for your dollars.

That means the Euro has greater purchasing power.

"Miss" our old currency? I don't. We had pretty bills, and the 5DM coin was a sort of defacto everyday unit, but other than that, I MUCH prefer not having to care AT ALL whether something I order or buy via eBay or whatever comes from Finland, Germany, France, or Spain.

After the first few years of constantly converting to the old currency in your head to get a feeling for prices, there's no difference.

It's just money. Who (except collectors) cares about anything beyond its actual value?

Mrjinglesusa · Jan 9, 2009, 12:17 PM

Won't miss them.

Chongo · Jan 9, 2009, 12:22 PM

A Chevy Viper?

MallyMal · Jan 9, 2009, 01:13 PM

Wish there was a way to keep the 300c, Challenger, Charger, and Viper then kill the rest of the line.

Laminar · Jan 9, 2009, 01:42 PM

Originally Posted by Maflynn

and sell it to the highest or more accurately bidder .

wat

ctt1wbw · Jan 9, 2009, 01:46 PM

Probably if Chrsler merges with GM then they both will retain each of their previous names.

Laminar · Jan 9, 2009, 01:49 PM

Like two drowning guys grabbing each other.

Dakar V · Jan 9, 2009, 01:51 PM

Originally Posted by Laminar

Like two drowning guys grabbing each other.

Don't ask me why I read this post and thought of Oisín.

Maflynn · Jan 9, 2009, 01:56 PM

Originally Posted by ctt1wbw

Probably if Chrsler merges with GM then they both will retain each of their previous names.

I have no idea why GM would even consider that idea. How would merging with a failing company improve their business?

Laminar · Jan 9, 2009, 02:11 PM

Originally Posted by Dakar V

Don't ask me why I read this post and thought of Oisín.

Repressed memories of kiddie pools?

angelmb · Jan 9, 2009, 02:57 PM

Originally Posted by MallyMal

Wish there was a way to keep the 300c, Challenger, Charger, and Viper then kill the rest of the line.

Too american centric line. Of those only the 300C sells here in Europe, and even so it doesn't sell well. To europeans the only Chrysler that may be still worth a look is the new Grand Voyager. But any european maker has a good contestant to it and most euro customers are not going to get the classic design of the Grand Voyager and how it relates to its heritage cause they are not aware of it and actually, don't care about such things.

Besides that, the range of engines available are only one damn engine, which needless to say is a Diesel engine, then at least may it be kind of quiet… but Chrysler failed there.

Last but not least, it is too expensive.

ctt1wbw · Jan 9, 2009, 03:17 PM

Originally Posted by Maflynn

I have no idea why GM would even consider that idea. How would merging with a failing company improve their business?

Well for starters, I've been seeing it lots lately on CNBC. And remember, these companies, all ALL auto companies, are seeing big declines in sales. Because the banks won't lend money. That's the major cause of the economic state today, the banks.

Maflynn · Jan 9, 2009, 03:56 PM

I'm not saying nobody is seeing reports/rumors of the merger. I'm saying is that it makes no sense to merge with a company that's on the verge of going under especially when GM is on incredibly shaky ground. Why absorb someone else's problem when you cannot even resolve your own.

Art Vandelay · Jan 9, 2009, 04:15 PM

GM has stated recently that they are not considering merging with Chrysler again. The merger talk made some sense in the early Fall before they both came into such a horrible cash flow situation. Even then, the general consensus among analysts was that GM was going to liquidate Chrysler if they merged. The only thing analysts believed that GM might be interested in are the minivans and maybe the Ram. However, it would cost a ton of money to close all the extra dealers and layoff all the employees.

Also, IIRC if either GM or Chrysler fail, the government gets first dibs at recovering its money from whatever results from the liquidation process. Further, it is much more expensive to let Chrysler fail abruptly than to throw some money at it and let it gradually unwind.

Spheric Harlot · Jan 9, 2009, 06:28 PM

Originally Posted by Laminar

Like two drowning guys grabbing each other.

Gerald Fitzpatrick and Patrick Fitzgerald in a 69 crash

Spheric Harlot · Jan 9, 2009, 06:32 PM

Originally Posted by angelmb

Too american centric line. Of those only the 300C sells here in Europe, and even so it doesn't sell well. To europeans the only Chrysler that may be still worth a look is the new Grand Voyager. But any european maker has a good contestant to it and most euro customers are not going to get the classic design of the Grand Voyager and how it relates to its heritage cause they are not aware of it and actually, don't care about such things.

There's a good number of those older Voyagers on the streets here in Germany, but unless the build quality has improved and they're at under 10L/100km petrol and 8L/100km Diesel (yeah, right), they'll be showroom decoration, and nothing else.

MallyMal · Jan 9, 2009, 08:43 PM

Originally Posted by angelmb

Too american centric line. Of those only the 300C sells here in Europe, and even so it doesn't sell well. To europeans the only Chrysler that may be still worth a look is the new Grand Voyager. But any european maker has a good contestant to it and most euro customers are not going to get the classic design of the Grand Voyager and how it relates to its heritage cause they are not aware of it and actually, don't care about such things.

Cool but I was really only speaking from my bias point of view.

driven · Jan 10, 2009, 10:53 AM

Isn't Bob Nardelli running Chrysler, LLC now? Didn't he save Home Depot?

Oh wait .... uh .... never mind.

angelmb · Jan 10, 2009, 01:06 PM

Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot

There's a good number of those older Voyagers on the streets here in Germany, but unless the build quality has improved and they're at under 10L/100km petrol and 8L/100km Diesel (yeah, right), they'll be showroom decoration, and nothing else.

Showroom material then, cause the Diesel gives you 9,3 l/100 Km. And that's the official info from Chrysler.

turtle777 · Jan 10, 2009, 02:59 PM

Originally Posted by badidea

You do not have more purchasing power with the dollar!
That's why it costs a ****ing arm and leg for you and not for us and that's why people get more dollars for their currency!

Classic.

-t

PB2K · 05:35 PM

amazing, after another year of worsening economy american NN'ers still think a weak dollar is good for them? I haven't met any americans on my current 6 week holiday in India/Sri Lanka. I do meet many russians

when designing a car you can only pick two out of these : cheap, reliable, speed

I think with american cars it's actually just 1. so I'll skip that and stick with european.

driven · Jan 10, 2009, 05:39 PM

Well ... a weak dollar HAS boosted exports. On the other side it's made imports more expensive (Oil in particular). The other negative to a weak dollar is that it makes international travel (to countries NOT pegged to the US Dollar) prohibitively expensive.

ctt1wbw · Jan 10, 2009, 05:54 PM

The dollar gets weak and the dollar gets strong. There's recessions, and there's growth, and there's recessions, and then there's growth. It's one of the laws of economics or something like that. Granted, I'm just a stoopid American who's never known anything of the world, but I'm pretty sure about this.

driven · Jan 10, 2009, 06:10 PM

Originally Posted by ctt1wbw

The dollar gets weak and the dollar gets strong. There's recessions, and there's growth, and there's recessions, and then there's growth. It's one of the laws of economics or something like that. Granted, I'm just a stoopid American who's never known anything of the world, but I'm pretty sure about this.

Yeah ... I'm pretty sure you are on to something.

OldManMac · Jan 10, 2009, 11:59 PM

Reality.

http://detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/art...TO01/901100431

turtle777 · Jan 11, 2009, 08:57 AM

Originally Posted by driven

Well ... a weak dollar HAS boosted exports.

The sad thing is, there is almost NOTHING to export anymore.

-t

driven · Jan 11, 2009, 10:44 AM

Originally Posted by turtle777

The sad thing is, there is almost NOTHING to export anymore.

-t

Biggest exports from the United States:
- Agricultural products (corn, soybeans, tobacco, cotton, pork, beef, chicken, etc.)
- Automobiles
- Foreign travel (yes, all of those visitors buy over $100 billion dollars of trinkets and goods and services.)
- Civilian aircraft
- Pharma
- High tech goods & Semiconductor (Still exceeding $40 in each category)
- Industrial machinery

- US Exports to China were higher than US Exports to India and France combined.

Don't forget ... we export dollars too. LOL

Yeah ... not looking great. I hope someone notices. Why should a high-tech country export 19th century agriculture? Even worse, as the "green revolution" kicks in farmers are starting to find new lines of work also so we won't even be able to compete with 19th century stuff.