[Sevag M.]

In about a month or so i will be getting a new comp.. Thing is i havent decided on whether to get a g4 or a PC. I am willing to wait untill MWNY to see what new things jobs has to offer. But buying a comp primarily for gaming, is g4 a bad choice? Should i just get a high-end PC?

[G4ME]

I got my G4 gor gaming because I wanted the best of the best on the mac line, If I were you I would get the best processor that you can get and then the best video card, the rest you can slack off 20 gig HD 128 ram (you can get 512 for 68.50 at Ramseeker.com ) and DVD or lowest optical that you can get and you would be set for great game. With OSX porting will be a snap and you will see more games coming out. An oh yhea The G4 doesn't use windows and you with Think Different

[I'mDaMac]

Originally posted by Sevag M.:
<STRONG>In about a month or so i will be getting a new comp.. Thing is i havent decided on whether to get a g4 or a PC. I am willing to wait untill MWNY to see what new things jobs has to offer. But buying a comp primarily for gaming, is g4 a bad choice? Should i just get a high-end PC? </STRONG>

If the main use for your computer will be gaming then a PC is by far the better choice right now. You can build our own GHZ Athlon box with a geForce 3 for about $1200 (depending on what drives, amount of RAM, etc. you configure it with). Plus consider the fact that the library for PC games is about three times that of the Mac. Unfortunately some games never make it out to the mac platform, like Tribes. Most games are also out first for the PC. IMHO, you should buy a PC for gaming.

Buying a mac is just fine for gaming. They are very capable gaming machines. If you dont mind waiting a little longer for games. They are great for games.

[Circa]

Macs can be good because we have the technology now but if you want variety and you want to try the newest game titile when it comes out, buy a pc.


I did,

[Scotttheking]

Here is what I'd recommend.
If you are thinking about getting a PC, that means you can tolerate windows.
If you are short on cash, get the PC (I CAN'T BELIEVE I'M SAYING THIS)
If you have the cash, get the highest end mac, which means the fastest processor. If Apple offers duals at the highest speed, get it.
Get a Gig of ram (not from apple).
Get the new version of virtual PC.

Why get virtual PC.
The new version is supposedly optimized for the G4, and somewhat for dual processors. It is supposed to be able to run windows at the same MHz rating as if it were on a real PC, sometimes higher. Ex. 800MHz G4 = about 800MHz, PC, maybe as much as 900MHz. As long as you have the ram.

Then, you get games for the Mac, if it is a must have and not on the Mac, you run it in virtual PC.
That is the best solution.

--Scott

[Face Ache]

Of course, for the price of the high end tower and the accompanying LCD you could buy two high end PC's with 17" monitors and network them for playing doubles.

Once you're in a game you won't see Windows (assuming it launches )

C'mon Guys, this person wants serious advice, not Mac banner waving.

Go the PC for gaming every time. Seriously.

[Gregory]

Just wait a week and buy a low-end G4.

Keep (or buy) your mac and get a PlayStation 2. It's relatively cheap, has lots of great games for it and doesn't run Windows.

[Matsu]

I've never heard that any version of VirtualPC can run anywhere near equivalent Mhz to a PC. The best I've ever heard is that on the very fastest Mac system (with lots of ram) you get office performance about equal to a 300Mhz P3, and it's useless for gaming. VPC 4.0

Is there a new version on the way???

[IceEnclosure]

Do you want a Mac or a PC? Get the one you like...want a nice OS? Duh.. Want a crappy OS? Duh..... Why not get a Playstation 2 or somethin.. heck.. get all the game boxes, it'll still be cheaper than your Crapalon Blunderbird

now go outside

[ 07-15-2001: Message edited by: IceEnclosure ]

[xmoger]

$1000 is a lot for most people just for a gaming system, but most people have computers for some other reason anyway. Gaming on PC's and consoles are very different too. With a console your stuck with a crappy TV, limited controllers, no positional audio, no large scale multiplayer, no sizeable scratch storage, no game mods, and a year or 2 after the console release, the graphics will look nostalgic. At least this is true until xbox comes out.

I was a big Interstate 76 fan back in the day. I nearly fell over when I saw the pitiful PS port.

[Milio]

If you are buying a computer for primarily gaming, then buying a Mac is the worst choice. I use a G4 all day, and I love it, but for gaming I use a PC.

To give you some indication of how much better a PC is at games, I have Deus Ex for both Mac and PC. The game runs considerably faster at 1024x768 on a Celeron 450 than it does on a G4/450 at only 640x480. Same with Diablo. Same with Quake 3. The Mac is playable, and many people enjoy it, but the PC is simply better.

In about two months there will be a new PC motherboard designed by NVIDIA called the nForce. It is based on the work they did developing the XBox. The motherboard will include on-board video similar to but better than the GeForce2MX on the high-end PowerMacs, the ability to upgrade to GeForce 3 via AGP, Dolby Digital 5.1 sound, 10/100 Ethernet, USB, HomePNA phoneline networking, double data-rate memory slots, ATA/100 ports for drives, and the list goes on. All that is built-in for an estimated $150. Add a 1.2GHz Athlon for $120, a good case for $75, 30GB hard drive for $100, DVD for $60 and keyboard and mouse and you're set up with an incredible gaming rig for about $600! Note that this is only $300 more than the XBox and far, far more capable.

A base PowerMac costs $1000 more, and this PC system will outperform a $3500 Mac. I absolutely love my Mac, but it is in no possible way price/performance competitive with a PC. People can argue that the Mac OS is superior to Windows, and I won't argue that point.

The nForce setup I described is for a home-built system. No major PC company has made any mention of whether they will build systems with this motherboard. The cost of a retail system like this will probably be about $1200.

[ 07-15-2001: Message edited by: Milio ]

[Nimisys]

the other thing about buying the pc for gaming is that it can be upgraded over the years as to run the best games without you ever needing to buy another computer at once. that is a major advantage only plopping down 500$ every 2years as opposed to 2-3k every 3years.

Originally posted by xmoger:
<STRONG>$1000 is a lot for most people just for a gaming system, but most people have computers for some other reason anyway. Gaming on PC's and consoles are very different too. With a console your stuck with a crappy TV, limited controllers, no positional audio, no large scale multiplayer, no sizeable scratch storage, no game mods, and a year or 2 after the console release, the graphics will look nostalgic. At least this is true until xbox comes out.

I was a big Interstate 76 fan back in the day. I nearly fell over when I saw the pitiful PS port.</STRONG>

Allow me to respond. Yes TV resolution is pathetic. The PS2 controller works wonderfully for lots of games, but yes sometimes a keyboard is way better (PS2 supports USB keyboards, don't know if any game do though). You are wrong on positional audio. Lots of PS1 games had Pro-Logic surround, PS2 supports that as well as Digital (no games do yet). As far as the rest, yes all true. The XBox won't be much different though.

There is another list of things console don't do though. They don't have massive software problems that need systems reinstalled, drives reformatted and what not. They don't cost an arm and a leg. They don't need a new video card every six months.

Don't get me wrong, I'd love to be able to have the latest greatest hardware, playing games in high res. Some games play better on a PC some play better on a console. They are different animals. But I can't justify the cost, just to play YA-Quake 42.0.7.

That's me, that's my choice.

I'll put that $1000 towards a nice G4 so I can have a nice computer for general work and some games. I'll also buy the console so I can have more choice in games to play.

I just wanted to bring up the option because no one else had.

[el matteo]

But buying a comp primarily for gaming, is g4 a bad choice?

Am I really the only one whose initial thought was "buying any computer primarily for gaming is the bad choice!"

[DoctorGonzo]

Get a PC.

It will cost you around 50% less than a gaming Mac. You will also have 3x the warranty.

You will have a much, much wider selection of games. You will not have to wait a year or more for ports....if they ever arrive. You will actually be able to open a gaming magazine and look at the games without wondering if you will ever be able to play them.

Virtual PC will not be of much help. It sucks for gaming and will suck for gaming. Plain and simple. Wishful thinking will not make your game performance or compatibility approach that of a PC.

You will be able to upgrade a PC easily, without having to buy an entirely new machine whenever something becomes too obsolete, or wonder if Apple is going to make a new OEM video card avialible to the aftermarket. You will get the hardware you want, TV-Out, S-Video, etc. 64MB of RAM on that video card? Sure! But not if your're getting it from Apple.

The Mac is an OK machine for gaming, but if you are going to buy a machine specifically for gaming, then going the Mac route doesn't really make much sense.

You will never have anything more than a fraction of the selection of games availible, you will never have the latest hardware, you will never have much of a choice when it comes to hardware, you will never get the same level of performance that a PC will deliver and in the end, you will pay at least 2x as much for something that probably has limited upgrade options.

You can pretend that it is 1988 and we are still locked into some sort of "Holy War" against PCs, or you can look at the facts and put aside the childish "Us vs Them" crap that has polluted much of this thread so far.

[Scotttheking]

Matsu, yep, new version should be out next week. It is heavily optimized for altivec, and that &lt;supposedly&gt; makes it able to run just as fast.

My advice still stands. Sure, it is really expensive, but hey, it is very cool.

The nForce isn't out yet, won't be for a little while, and yes, it will be the best motherboard out there, and I do very much hope Apple copies all the technology, especially the dual memory busses. But it is still PC, it is still ugly.

Whoever said you can upgrade a PC but can't upgrade a Mac is very wrong. I've got a PM8500 that has very few original parts left in it.
You can upgrade any machine.

Get a fast Mac. Run VPC. If VPC isn't as fast as the rumors are saying, get a PC. Don't forget the asprin

--Scott

[Face Ache]

Is it so strange to buy a PC just for gaming? How much would you spend on a television? What would you get out of it?

Personally I'd prefer a PC over a TV any day.

VPC is slow.

Buy a PC unless you are a rich graphic designer.

[Sevag M.]

wow, thanks for all the info guys.. i think i've made my mind up, and going for a PC.. But just in case, im still going to wait for MWNY though(its only 2 days away anyway).

[iCartman]

I can't believe someone actually thinks Virtual PC is fast.

(I guess if you are comparing it to a P-133 it might be)

VPC4 is so bad it can't handle any 3d games.

[ion]

Well if you get the g4 dont plan on playing a large vareity of games. Personally I would get a PS2, Game Cube, X Box, and a nice CRT TV for like $2000 instead of wasting it on a computer if you just want to play games. Then pick up an iMac for word processing, email, and internet stuff. You dont need to get a new TV if you want to save another $1000+ but if you have the money for a computer why not.

[JLannoo]

PC for sure if your buying it for gaming. You could spend $3000 on a Mac and still not get the gaming performance of a $1000 home built PC.

[Scotttheking]

I'm basing that statement on VPC5 leaked benchmarks.
These benchmarks are using the G4 processor.
If I'm wrong, or if I'm right, we'll know in a few days.

--Scott

[Nimisys]

Originally posted by Scotttheking:
<STRONG>I'm basing that statement on VPC5 leaked benchmarks.
These benchmarks are using the G4 processor.
If I'm wrong, or if I'm right, we'll know in a few days.

--Scott</STRONG>

but what benchmarks? photoshop 6.0 again probably.

[IceEnclosure]

Originally posted by Nimisys:
<STRONG>


but what benchmarks? photoshop 6.0 again probably.</STRONG>

Dude.. he's saying VPC5 benchmarks, man.. not Photoshop

not saying he's right or wrong, just trying to help you read a little better

[juanvaldes]

Originally posted by Scotttheking:
<STRONG>I'm basing that statement on VPC5 leaked benchmarks.
These benchmarks are using the G4 processor.
If I'm wrong, or if I'm right, we'll know in a few days.

--Scott</STRONG>

is this going to be a free update or are VPC4 users gonna have to shell out more cash to run faster? Did you say it was MP aware as well?

dude intersted in gaming, PC for = gaming/comp uses, PS2/Cube/XBox = gaming, gaming gaming. mac = work, some gaming.

I would go with a PS2 or wait for the Xbox. But I am happy with Diablo 2 now on my G4, so I dont' care

[Scotttheking]

Note: Nothing I say is gold plated.

It is not a free update. It is altivec optimized and (pretty sure) written for OSX.
I don't know about MP aware. Guess you have to wait and see.

It does seem rather silly to most people that you would purchase a new computer primarily to play games. Though, most hard core gamers know that consoles play arcade style games well, but the gaming experience for a larger genre of games will be better on a PC (or Mac). Further, there are few applications that push your system has hard as games will.

That said, PCs are cheaper, there is no getting around that. Looking forward, there is no real advantage (quality wise) to playing on a PC or Mac. The audio quality on the average PC is probably better than the average Mac, but cards like SoundBlaster are now available for the Mac.

PCs have more titles to choose from. However, with rare exceptions, the titles that don't make it to the Mac aren't anything to brag about.

Traditionally, there were more pros and cons to the timing of Mac releases. PC games would come out first (usually bug ridden). Then, 6 months to a year later, the Mac version would come out. However, the Mac version used to have extras like better video resolutions, additional expansion packs thrown in for free as well as a bunch of bug fixes to the original code. In short, by the time it came out on the Mac, it was a quality gaming experience. ... Times change, now there are mostly simultaneous or at least near simultaneous releases. As such, you basically get the same thing on both platforms.

Regarding performance, assuming the low end G4 will be 733 in two days, performance isn't much of an issue. Despite what some people here may think, there is no need or even advantage to playing at 200fps. There is a point where you just can't notice the additional performance. A G4 with a Geforce 3 plays todays games as well as any PC. In fact, the latest trends in video cards is not after higher frame rates. Rather, the focus is on higher quality of video effects such as FSAA (full screen anti-aliasing), etc.

Regarding VPC, it's a nice product, but you'll be disappointed using it for anything performance related. Even if the latest version is faster, I can't see how it would be "fast enough". I'll be at MWNY to see for myself. VPC used to offer passthrough support for some video cards (3dfx comes to mind). However, IIRC, I think there were issues with some games and VPC due to DirectX calls to the hardware. I'm not sure if this is still an issue, but I'd wager that it is.

The bottom line is that a cheap PC will give you the best bang for the buck with gaming. However, if you use your computer for other things, buying a new Mac isn't a bad choice. I own both PCs and Macs. Both serve their purposes. There are more headaches with the PC side, but once things are configured properly, it does some things, like games, very well.

[VRL]

If you like Macs, get a Mac. IMO, the better games are available for both Mac and PC users. http://www.compuexpert.com/html/mac_explorer.shtml

It is also wise, I think, to get just a little more computer than you think you will need. (Who knows ... you may decide to build an FMP database or make movies in the near future.) I am quite familiar with both Macs and PCs, and know that in the long run, my Macs perform more reliably, and are as fast, if not faster, than any PCs sitting next to them (even w/out considering the time spent on troubleshooting my PC). I have also found that while PCs may seem to have a plethora of upgrade options, the actual upgrade is, more often than not, a pain in the a**. On the other hand, I have used virtually every slot and connector on my Macs without any major problems.

IMO, the choice is simple. Mac G4

[M�lum]

playstation 1 is the best choice for gaming. (price/choice/performance)

And if your a questioning whether to buy a PC or a Mac, then you will buy the PC.

[ 07-17-2001: Message edited by: M�lum ]