[Mallrat]

I love apple, but I'm kind of feel that their laptop choices don't seem to make me happy.

I'm a writer looking for the best laptop in terms of portability and function as well as price. Cheaper the better, but I haven't ruled out spending 2000 dollars either.

THOUGHTS ON APPLE NOTEBOOKS:

•I love the powerbook 12inch, but I feel like it gets too hot and I love to use my computer for hours on end outstide. Not to mention the screen looks like crap to me.

•I love the ibook 12inch, but I don't like the new keyboards they put in them (used to be the best). They feel too stiff to me and not fun to type on. Also, like the 12inch powerbook, the screen is quite medicore.

• I really love the 15inch powerbook and it seems like a great choice, love the keyboard and screen, but the price and size of it are keeping me down.

• The 17inch is a thing of beauty, but it isn't for me. I have an iMac G5 at home for that.

SO...

I'm considering a PC notebook as I only need a computer that runs Word, Internet, and other basic computer functions. I can save my other apple needs for my iMac.

However, I'm hesitant because I haven't (besides work) owned a PC in 8 years. I know that there are fun things like pop-ups and spyware/adware, but I don't really know much about the PC problems because frankly I don't deal with them since i'm an apple nerd.

Should I go to the dark side?

PC NOTEBOOKS I'M CONSIDERING --

• Sony laptops are great. I really love their keyboards and their slim looks. I'm most loving the S series which features a 4.2 notebook with a 13.3 XBRITE screen that really looks sharp. I'm still unsure if I love the XBRITE since I don't know how great it would do in the sun, but indoors, it looks amazing. However, the keyboard seems like it's 80% of full size. Still pretty good to type on, but not great. And I want to use this computer for typing. But I love the screen and size.

They also offer an ultra portable 10.6 that is great, but I think the keyboard might be way too small for me.

The 15.4 inch options they offers are great machines and much cheaper than apple's options.

• Gateway seems to have some cheap choices and my friend had one at work that seemed very nice for the $$$.

• Dell. I'm sure they make good notebooks, but I haven't used one in years. But I'm sure someone here come shead some light on a good one.

• IBM. Last, but not least. they seem to make great keyboards and have some cool choices. Espically the "T" series.


So, should I make the leap to a PC. I would still have an apple desktop.Give me reasons not to go. Maybe reasons to go.

And last, and not least, for people that might own a PC notebook, which one should I consider getting?

Thank you. And I'll never leave apple. I just might cheat on it.

[vinster]

I say go for it.

I'm not a PC user except for work like you, but it might be good to hedge your bets during the PPC to Intel transition. I don't own a home PC either so can't give advice on which brand to go with (I use a HP pavilion for work, but wouldn't recommend it).

[Link]

A few things to consider:
1. I'm sure this has been considered, but buying a PC laptop won't "make you ready for the intel move" at all, the stuff that exists now and what will exist then are pretty different. *shrug* I figure that wasn't even really a concern but it seemed to be part of the whole "move" thing vinister suggested.
2. PBs are more expensive, their build quality USUALLY makes up by that -- you can look at the side of any apple laptop and the ports will be nicely aligned, the keyboard is backlit and really nice at that on some models, even the power button is sorta nifty compared to most cheap laptops that seem "thrown together".. That doesn't mean their quality-checking is perfect at all but dang..
3. XBrite screens are a darned fad. I don't really know why having a reflective piece of plastic over your monitor will improve things any, but whatever it's personal preference I suppose.

[robby818]

ThinkPad X32. Great size and weight. Keyboard has a nice feel. Very durable. Affordable at 1299. As long as you do not need an optical drive I would get the X32. I have an X22 and my sister has a T40. I like IBM (lenovo) laptops a lot. They are built really well. Stay away from the X40 though- it was a bit too small for my tastes and I think the non standard hard drive really hurts performance. The two brands I would consider are ibm and sony. i like the smaller sony notebooks bec they have optical drives but they are almost too small- the keyboard is not standard and a 10 screen is just a bit too small. 12" at 1024 x 768 is really good for most tasks.

[grayc]

Before coming to Mac I had a sony a dell and a Gateway (the Dell notebook i got for my father) lets start with the sony. Great machine had no major problems with it, but they are 20-30% more money for the same features....but they look so darn cool. Dell when my father got the notebook it had 3 or 4 dead pixels. now i understand the policy that they can't fix the machine for one pixel but 3 or 4 on a brand new top of the line machine seems a little weak, later on he had some other problems with the screen regarding the backlight..,.they wanted more than the machine was worth to fix it over 1000 dollars if i remember correctly when it was only a few weeks over a year old. In my view dell is making a good "throw away" notebook they start in the 599 range, you can replace it every 12-18 months. Gateway was my most recent. I loved the screen on the one i had 1440x1050 (i think) such detail...I like haveing acres of resolution, tons of room for tool bars. The machine however ran very hot. There was a plate one the bottom of the machine that got so hot all the paint came off it....I called them about it and they said it was normal for that line (the x series) and the fan sounds like a jet engine. I would be on the phone and people would ask what that noise was when the notebook fan kicked on. So I like the PB but the sony would be my second choice. I wish (maybe apple is reading) for a higher res PB even the 17" screen is a bit weak The 12" screen is terrible 1024x768 is a dead resolution, but these are only me thoughts...what do i know/?

[I was David B.]

You are right, sonys are a tempting competition. Thinkpads also (I have a T40).

My experiences?
Dell is crap. We have hundreds of dell notebooks at my Institute. They suck every minute you have to use them. Electronic parts thoughlessly thrown into a cheap box.

I already thought about it to buy a sony (13.3 inch) notebook myself. They are cute and look very well done. Why I did not do that? Only because there is no good operating system available for them. I run Windows and suse linux on my Thinkpad. Although the T40 is a nice machine, Windows is not my choice. My inpression is, that windows is build by developers who think their users are dumbasses. Whatever you click, you are asked "are you serious?", "do you really meant this?" etc. Not to forget the bad shortcomings. Try to throw a folder with 50.000 files into the trash and your machine is 100% busy for minutes. Empty the trash and experience some more minutes of idle time. Ridiculous. And there is much more.

If you say you want only internet - thats exactly the problem. You need to spend a lot of attention for windows to block pop ups, update your firewall and virus scanner and throw away 50 % of your performance for nonstop virus scanning in the background (as much background as immature windows multitasking allows).

So I fully agree, Sony hardware is tempting. Apple hardware could be much better. But the operating system is the thing to make a decision on.
Unless you are a geek and would like to run linux, macs are the best choice around. If you are a geek, you won't prevent linux bad power management to use your battery power within 2 hours although you have the latest high end centrino + highest capacity battery.

Thus the bottom line for me: Macs have the best operating system. The rest is middle class. But macs are the best compromise if you want both power and usability. And macs are the choice if you want to spend as much time as possible on what you want to do with your machine instead of spending your time to keep the machine up and running.

Did I mention that there is no easy and cheap backup concept neither for windows nor for linux?

[Randman]

Wait and see what the Mactel laptops are going to offer if you don't like the current range.

[tie]

Spyware isn't really a problem. You just can't go around installing every program you come across on the web. Really, you should be equally careful on a Mac, but for whatever reason things don't seem to be so bad. For example, I just yesterday downloaded and installed Temperature Monitor. On a PC, I probably would have waited a little longer and found out a bit more about it before installing something so inessential and random.

Dell laptops are cheap when you use coupon deals like can be found at bensbargains , but I don't think they are very good. IBM/Lenovo, Sony and Fujitsu are where I would look. The IBM X32 and X41 (even lighter, dead quiet unlike Pbooks) are good 12" screen portables. The IBM T43 performs fantastically, has a 14" 1400x1000 screen, and is only 4.5 pounds -- lighter than the Pbook 12". Sony has the highest resolution screens, and good screens, in the smallest packages. I would not buy 10" screen laptop though -- for one thing, it is widescreen, so in fact the screen area is only the same as like an 8 or 9 inch standard aspect ratio screen. Sony's are known for being noisy, but I don't know how they compare to the current, very noisy Pbooks. Also their power bricks are ridiculously heavy (1 pound). Check out the Vaio S380p, and see if you like it.

Fujitsu seems to make good computers -- for example, the P7000 is well-reviewed, and has a 1400x1000 14" screen while weighing less than 4 pounds (significantly less than 12" Pbook) -- but they aren't easy to get. I ordered this computer from portableone, but had to cancel the order when it turned out I was looking at waiting three weeks.

So I picked up the Pbook 12" from the local store. You have certainly nailed most of its big disadvantages. The screen is the worst LCD screen I have ever used. The viewing angle is so poor that I can't see the entire screen at full brightness even sitting right in front of it, with the display angle very carefully adjusted. It is also very dim, has poor contrast. I see dithering, too, which makes me think it is only an 18 bit screen, not a true 24 bit screen (Apple's tech specs suspiciously don't say).

The 12" Pbook is also very heavy for its size, display and power. As I mentioned above, the full-sized IBM T43 has a high-res 14" screen, is more powerful (including better graphics), and is still lighter. On the other hand, it is relatively cheap compared to some of these other laptops -- but if you are willing to spend more for a better small laptop, you have to get a PC. I don't know why Apple doesn't make 14" laptops, since this is a great compromise size.

Anyway, after the Fujitsu order was canceled, I walked down to the local store, and picked up a 12" Pbook, which they had in stock. I haven't been very impressed with Mac OS -- the Finder is still buggier than the Windows whatever-it's-called. For example, copying more than one thing at a time consistently gives beachballs and I have to relaunch the Finder. I feel crashes in file-manipulation routines like copying files are very dangerous, since you can too easily lose your data. The software matters much more than the OS. Still, Spotlight is very useful. I won't write a whole review here.

Maybe a year from now Macs will have caught up.

[Harry Schaefer]

I have been operating with a dell laptop HP desktop and mac powerbook 12" and 17" amd mac G5. I am incresingly using the macs for several reasons:
1 fewer viruses
2 .mac works very well for syncing and email particularly when on the road
3 the computing experience on the mac is far more enjoyable.
4 works great for music and pictures
5 can use pc files easily but can use pc if necessary
I wanted the 12" for travel but find it great to use on the lap particularly when around the house. I am using it now. I have converted my wife to macs completely and she really enjoys them. Now the network threat is much reduced. Finally I am finding the 17" portable is increasingly replacing the desktop. As a retiree I can indulge myself with this my hobby. I think you would really enjoy the 12" powerbook.
I solve the heat problem by using a breadboard or other platform under the mac. Also in the morning it is kind of nice on the lap. I have found the screen quite acceptable. Hope this helps. Harry

[Drakino]

Reasons I like my Powerbook over both an older Compaq Armada and a newer Dell Inspiron laptop:

1. I leave the powerbook on almost all the time. If I'm not using it, I close the lid and let it sleep. I then open the lid later and resume work nearly instantly. This still doesn't work well on PC laptops running Windows.

2. Better keyboard feel. If your not liking the iBook keyboard, you will despise the ones Dell uses, as it's about the same one across their lineup. My Powerbook keyboard feels solid.

3. Ambient light sensors. You only get this on the 15 inch with the backlit keyboard or the 17 inch though. I didn't think that much about them till I realized it dims the display when needed to save battery power. Nice feature, I don't know of a PC laptop with it.

4. OS X. The locations settings seem to be a nice and easy way to change network profiles, something that a laptop might do many times if it goes to work and such. Tiger is becoming increesingly handy to me, including allowing me to quickly find my flight itinerary recently when the person at the counter couldn't find it by name. Power managment. OS X displays the useful battery capacity from 100% to 0%. A PC will die and lose your work at 0%, the Mac sleeps for another good 8 hours after hitting 0%.

5. Wireless networking is much simpler on the Mac. XP SP2 is better, but not as good as it could be.

A PC laptop might suit you better for form factor, but the tradeoffs might not be worth it. Add to that the extra time spent on ensuring your laptop is patched before taking it to a hotspot, and well, in my book it's not worth it. My only actively used Windows box now sits hidden behind a linux firewall.

[brettcamp]

I have the 12" Powerbook and love it. I won't deny that there are better screens, but mine seems adequate. As for the heat issue, there are plenty of lap desks/stands/etc that protect your thighs, help with air circulation under the PB, etc etc. Check the peripherals forum.

I'd never go back to Windows, no matter how much better the hardware might be. OSX's ease of use is the main advantage of Macs.

[Macola]

Go for one of the Vaios...if you're working outdoors a lot, you'll definitely appreciate the X-Brite screen. I really like my 12" PB for many reasons, but screen quality is not one of them.

Using XP isn't really that bad if you're reasonably careful, as others have mentioned. AdAware, Spybot, and AV software will help.

[DylanG]

I wouldn't buy a Sony laptop. Look at the prices for Sony accessories like batteries and power supplies. What you would expect to be simple like upgrading a hard drive is nearly impossible on some Sony models. Sony's support is beyond terrible and they have a history of using proprietary hardware/drivers that they don't update for Windows OS's and are unavailable for Linux. I understand the appeal of Sony hardware to someone used to Apple but I think you're much better off with an IBM if you want a more solid and expensive machine or just stack up the Dell coupons and get something functional for as little money as possible. (Look for the periodically offerred $750 off of $1500 coupon.)

Also, I think XBrite is a terrible gimmick. It's not brighter. What they've done is put a coating that reflects light directionally instead of diffusing it. There's a reason LCD's are typically designed to diffuse light. It makes them usable in more lighting situations. If there is light reflecting on the screen it is diffused in all directions instead of directly into your eyes. This means that a light shining directly on the screen won't wash it out as easily because only a small portion of that light is reflected back to your eyes.

It's amusing that the trend in CRT's was to put anti-reflective coatings on them and now the trend with LCD's is to add reflective coatings.

[inprnt]

i would probably go back to pc's if it wasn't for all the problems. My dads gateway is terrible it constantly gets virus' and other problems.

[olePigeon]

I'd stick with the Apple laptop. It's true, you can take preventive measures to keep Spyware and Viruses off your Windows PC, but why does it have to be a constant chore? Plus it's extra software you're going to have to buy. Not to mention that nearly all the spyware companies are looking to move to a subscription based service.

You don't have to get viruses and trojans all the time. It just takes one to ruin everything.

Plus, with the Mac, it really does just work. I'm a site technician for a local high school with Windows PCs, coming over from a temp job at a college running Macs. All I can tell you is that Windows PCs are the spawn of the devil! I feal so sorry for administration as they're forced by IT to "standardize" on this f*cking crap. The district is spending hundreds of thousands of dollars a year on preventative software that they wouldn't have to buy on a Mac (except for antivirus, which is a good idea anyway for your Windows using colleagues.)

So yes, you can use a Windows PC and not have viruses and spyware. Well, maybe not spyware. Regardless of which anti-spyware software you have, you will get spyware eventually. Then to get rid of it you have to go to their website and download a special tool because for some reason or another their software doesn't pick it up . But it takes work and time out of your day that, personally, I'd rather be doing something else.

[jokarak]

I would recommend a Sony VAIO w/o hesitation IF you have some experience w/ Windows machines. Firstly, Sony throws in a boatload of extra software in their computers, most of it no so good, so you would probably want to unistall a lot of it (not hard to do, but time consuming and you would/should probably try them out before deciding what to keep).

Secondly, as people have pointed out, there is the matter of installing spyware blockers, pop up blockers, etc. Nothing serious, mind you, because unlike what a lot of mac users seem to think, it is not an unsurmountable issue to keep a PC fairly spyware/virus free. Install firefox, keep it up to date. Install adaware, keep it up to date. Install zonealarm, keep it up to date. That's pretty much it, and all three programs are free, and should work w/o problems if you configure them properly. If you are worried about viruses, go ahead and buy Norton or something like that (a new PC should come w/ some antivirus software for free for a limited period of time). Basically, you should just use reasonable caution while browsing, clicking on things (don't shoot the duck!), downloading software, reading e-mails, just like you would in a mac.

Thirdly, get a decent e-mail program, not Outlook Express, which is the default for Windows. Thunderbird from mozilla is pretty good (got bugs, but they have new versions coming out all the time), and it is free.

Final recommendation is that if you do go the Windows route, you might consider using something other than iPhoto to organize your pictures. This is mainly because of iPhoto's freaky file structure, which makes a total headache to organize/find pictures using third-party software. This way, you can store all your music and photos in the mac, share your music via iTunes, which is available for Windows, and use some other program to browse the pictures either on the PC or the mac (photoshop elements 3.0 for the mac, maybe, and Picasa 2.0 for the PC, which again, is free).

All I can say is that computers are tools, and you use the right tool for the job and for your own personal needs. If you think a Windows laptop might serve your current needs better than a mac, then go for it. I've had PCs for over 15 years, and have yet to have a virus in my computers (knock on wood), although I've had my share of spyware, etc., which can usually be cleaned up pretty well. I also do a OS reinstall every year to year and a half, which helps keep everything running smoothly. Not exactly fun, but in a sense, it is like tinkering w/ cars or something, you get some joy out of playing w/ the hardware and software.

[driven]

I faced the same choices ... I went with the Apple 15" 1.67Ghz. In the end *all* of the PC laptops left me cold.

I'm quite happy and have no regrets with this Powerbook G4.

[brettcamp]

Originally Posted by tie

I don't know why Apple doesn't make 14" laptops, since this is a great compromise size.

Ahh, but it does: the 14" iBook.

[urrl78]

I got the Sony T250 to have a 10.6" screen 3 lb take anywhere laptop that has a PC slot. The Fujitsu P7010 is also a viable choice but you say the keyboards on these units may be too small. I do not disagree but as for me I peck, not type so speed is not an issue with me. You may be more interested in the Sony S series which is larger.

I use the 17" Powerbook for the heavy at home video work and the T250 for the light stuff; the Verizon EVDO PC card is major bucks/month but major fun with the T250. Internet anywhere anytime no base stations or routers.

http://homepage.mac.com/bhardy3/PhotoAlbum38.html

Personally I love my 3 Lb T250, it only gets warm and is very quiet. I am an X-Bright fan all the way; but as afore mentioned that's personal preference; I can see it annoying some people.

For virus protection AVG Free edition has saved my butt; a very reliable no-cost solution.

[TheMosco]

If you don't get a mac, just don't get a dell. Among other gripes, they seem to have some of the worst trackpads in the business. I use a IBM T41 at work, nice laptop.

[Pennstate]

You can pick up a decent IBM X22 with integrated wireless (2662-9EU, 2662-9DU) for < $400 on ebay. I upgraded the 60GB 4200rpm hard drive in my 12" PB to 80gb 5400rpm and put the 60GB in my X22. I also upgraded the wireless from 802.11b to 802.11a/b/g. Sell the stuff that you swapped out on EBAY for $60. You net upgrade cost is ~$50. A brand new battery costs ~$40 and the battery life is close to 4 hours with wireless on.

BTW, here are some pics of my X22:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v5...e/PICT0672.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v5...le/desktop.jpg


Stay away from used laptops from DELL (poor quality, bulky, ugly) and SONY (scratches easily, poor design resulting in loose LCD hinges, expensive replacement parts)

[flanders]

What about running virtual PC on a powerbook? If it's just occasional windows use that might be a great option. I've used it for lots of things since most of my clients are windows based and I just prefer using a mac.

[Voch]

I have my PC set up so I can ssh/remote desktop to it when I need to...usually for CPU intensive stuff, overnight downloads, and MAME audits. It's really handy to have available like that. I'm thinking about setting up my PowerBook in the same way when I "retire" it for my next iBook/PowerBook upgrade.

Voch

[inprnt]

penn did you use an apple case on your ibm

[Pennstate]

Originally Posted by inprnt

penn did you use an apple case on your ibm

That's an IBM X22 thinkpad with a sticker that came with my Powerbook G4. It does look like a Powerbook G3 heh?

[inprnt]

Yeah. Its good that even though you have a pc your still representing apple.

[jstein]

My 15-icnh PB is my workhorse yet instill there are times when I must use a PC, so I really do not caught up in the whole Mac/PC nonsense. Still by far and large an Apple computer will always be my first choice, I write myself. I was wondering have you thought about purchasing the 14 inch Ibook or maybe buying a refurb PB? The 15 inch alpb with the combo drives start at 2k, so I am quite sure that there are some great prices out there for a refurb. Just a thought

[bimmerphile]

If you only need writing and internet, why not pick up a G3 iBook from smalldog. They're still eligible for applecare, just in case you're victim to logicboard failure.

[madking]

Daredevil,

for the tasks you described, why not get an ibook or a previous rev powerbook. I don't think PC notebooks offer the kind of price, portability and features that Apple notebooks does.

I was just looking at PC notebooks for work purpose, mainly for programming using Visual Studio. Compared to Apple's offerings, there's really no PC laptop out there that matches the features and price of a powerbook. They are either too big, too expensive, have no dedicated graphics card, or it's a Dell, etc...I may just wait for a Mactel and install Windows on it if thats possible.

[driven]

Madking,

You are echoing the opinions I stated a few months ago when I went shopping for a notebook. Apple really is in a very good position right now.

[inprnt]

if mactels come out, and windows is available to put on them, won't you still have the same problems we have now with windows.

[jokarak]

If windows do become available for mactel computers, you'll probably want a dual boot setup. That would mean that when you are in the Windows boot, you'll be vulnerable to the viruses, spyware, etc. that plague unprotected windows machines. When you are in the Mac boot, you should be much better off. Of course, if you limit your windows boot activity to simply running programs that you need, w/o using e-mail and possibly limiting your browsing, you should be ok. Then again, this is all speculation until the real thing come out next year.

[polendo]

I come from the PC side and still use them at work. I bought an iBook just to try OSX and recently bought a Mac mini. I haven't switched completely to Macs because there are some things that need to be done on a PC and surely I have no problem recommending PC. But to tell you the truth, if your thing is writing.. get a Mac. In some way, your most valuable posesion is information (stored in the computer) and Macs are definetly top notch in that department.