[mmurray]

Hi

Over on http://www.macosrumors.com/ a poster is saying that the
screen on the Rev C's has improved. However some posters here say
that it has not. Does anyone know what the story is ?

I have a Rev B bought after owning a 15". I like the small size but as everybody knows the screen is just not as good as the 15 or 17's.

Thanks - Michael

[sbdaigo]

If you ckeck over at MacNN - there is a guy who says YES - and I am hoping that he is right. I will be looking to pass down my RevB for a new one!

Hope it is true.

[chabig]

Some say yes. Some say no. Here is what the hardware technote says for the 12" iBook (April '03 model):

The iBook computer has a built-in color flat panel display. The display is backlit by a cold cathode fluorescent lamp (CCFL). The display uses TFT (thin-film transistor) technology for high contrast and fast response.

Depending on the model, the display is either 12.1 or 14.1 inches in size, measured diagonally. The display contains 1024 by 768 pixels (XGA) and can show up to millions of colors.

The graphics controller IC is an ATI Mobility Radeon 7500. The graphics IC has 32 MB of video DDR SDRAM on the chip. It supports 3D acceleration and display depths up to 24 bits per pixel. When more graphics storage is needed, the graphics IC can also use part of main memory. For more information, see �Graphics IC�.

The graphics IC includes a scaling function that expands smaller-sized images to fill the screen. By means of the scaling function, the computer can show full-screen images at 1024 by 768, 800 by 600, or 640 by 480 pixels.

Here is the technote description for the 12" Powerbooks (all models, including this latest):

The PowerBook G4 �12 inch computer has a built-in, color, flat-panel display. The display is backlit by a cold cathode fluorescent lamp (CCFL). The display uses TFT (thin-film transistor) technology for high contrast and fast response.

The display is 12.1 inches measured diagonally and displays 1024 by 768 pixels (XGA), showing up to millions of colors.

The graphics controller IC is an nVidia GeForce4 420 Go with 32 MB of video DDR SDRAM on the chip. It supports 3D acceleration and display depths up to 24 bits per pixel. When more graphics storage is needed, the graphics IC can also use part of main memory. For more information, see �Graphics IC�.

The graphics IC includes a scaling function that expands smaller-sized images to fill the screen. By means of the scaling function, the computer can show full-screen images at 1024 by 768, 800 by 600, or 640 by 480 pixels.

Since the descriptions are identical, I'd say the screens probably are too. There has never been anything wrong with the Powerbook screens, except some people think they are a bit dim. Apple could have made changes to the flourescent backlighting on the new Powerbook that make the screen brighter looking, without changing the screen itself. Or, people are just being wishful.

Chris

[mmurray]

Thanks Chris,

There is a noticeable difference between the 12 and 15 inch
PB's though. The 12's screen is far more sensitive to the angle
at which you view it and slightly fuzzier than the 15's.

Does the tech description of the 15 differ from what you have
posted here ?

Michael

[chabig]

Michael,

Here is the description of the 15" screen:

The 15-inch PowerBook G4 has a built-in color flat-panel display. It is a wide-screen display (1280 by 854 pixels) and is 15.2 inches across, measured diagonally. The resolution is 101.4 dpi.

The display is backlit by a cold cathode fluorescent lamp (CCFL). The display uses TFT (thin-film transistor) technology for high contrast and fast response.

In addition to its native resolution (1280 by 854) the display also supports several non-native resolutions, as shown in Table 3-13. The graphics controller IC includes a scaling function that expands displays with those smaller resolutions to fill the screen.

The display�s native resolution, 1280 by 854, has an aspect ratio of 3:2. When selecting a picture resolution with an aspect ration of 4:3, the user can choose to have it displayed with square pixels and black margins on the sides, or with stretched pixels that fill the display from side to side. These options are shown in Table 3-13.

It seems pretty similar to me. So maybe we can't really tell from the technote.

Chris

[Eug Wanker]

There has never been anything wrong with the Powerbook screens, except some people think they are a bit dim.

The older model 12" iBook and PowerBook screens suck in comparison to the 15" (and 17"). They have lower contrast, and are not as bright. Well, the 12" screen doesn't truly suck, but it's at best mediocre.

Dunno if the 1.33 GHz 12" screen has improved though. There is definitely a lot of room for improvement.

[chabig]

The older model 12" iBook and PowerBook screens suck in comparison to the 15" (and 17").

Maybe they do when you compare them side by side. But when I'm using my12" iBook or Powerbook I don't have a 15" or 17" Powerbook sitting next to it for comparison. So I have never found it to be a problem for me. And I did save quite a bit of money over the 15" or 17" model.

Chris

[Eug Wanker]

As soon as I see the 12" iBook's screen, I notice its deficiencies, even if it's not compared side-by-side with the 15". But that's probably because I've been spoiled because I've been using the 15" screen for quite some time now.

The 12" screen is definitely usable, but if the original poster is looking for a top end laptop LCD screen, the 12" doesn't fit the bill.

[NYCFarmboy]

My 1000th post!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


<insert balloons & confettie etc>


anyhow..

I saw one of the new 1.3 gig 12" powerbooks at the Apple Store in Soho the other day in person. It was set up next to a 12" ibook. I could not tell the difference between the two of them screen wise. It was very hard to look at from a angle, just as the ibook is.

The screen is usable...but definately not top of the line in terms of what is available today. If you want a bright screen you should definately go with a 15" powerbook intstead.

I had use of a 17" powerbook for a month in December (a brand new 1.3 model then) and was not impressed with the screen at all other than its size).
Presumeably the 15" and 17" models now have brighter screens?

But the new 12" is the same old darker one like in the 12" ibook.

[pete]

I don't get why Apple is crippling this otherwise amazing little machine with a poor quality LCD. Of course some will say money, but that could be said aboout the 15 inch units too and their screens are superb. The LCD on the powerbook G4 12is really not good enough given the price of the computer.

[im_noahselby]

Apple can put a much better screen in the 12" PB than the screen they are currently using and they know it.

My theory is that by using the same screen that they are using in the iBook they are able to save money, therfore make more money in return. From a business stand point it appears to be working for them, but for PB users, it's a bit of a let down

Regardless, people still buy em...

Noah

[chabig]

I don't get why Apple is crippling the 12" Powerbook by not using a 15" or larger screen on it. Come on Apple!

Seriously, I've had three iBooks, and two Powerbooks in the past 2 1/2 years and have have no problems at all with my screens. For the money, these are great machines, and every bit as beautiful as PC screens, in my opinion.

Chris

[NYCFarmboy]

Originally posted by im_noahselby:
Apple can put a much better screen in the 12" PB than the screen they are currently using and they know it.

My theory is that by using the same screen that they are using in the iBook they are able to save money, therfore make more money in return. From a business stand point it appears to be working for them, but for PB users, it's a bit of a let down

Regardless, people still buy em...

Noah

sad but true..however I was going to buy a new 12" powerbook...but wanted to check out to see if the display would be better than my 12" ibook...I was sadly dissapointed at it being the same as my nearly 3 year old ibook......

The tech specs on this screen are now already almost 3 years old.

so..I'm gonna wait for a better screen. It is a nice computer..don't get me wrong..but my ibook will hold me until I a better screen comes along.

[Spliff]

Originally posted by NYCFarmboy:
sad but true..however I was going to buy a new 12" powerbook...but wanted to check out to see if the display would be better than my 12" ibook...I was sadly dissapointed at it being the same as my nearly 3 year old ibook......

The tech specs on this screen are now already almost 3 years old.

so..I'm gonna wait for a better screen. It is a nice computer..don't get me wrong..but my ibook will hold me until I a better screen comes along.

Yeah, I think Apple has lost another sale from me. I was really excited about the new 12" PB, but I've read so much bad news about the screen that I think I'm going to hold off buying one.

[Eug Wanker]

Originally posted by chabig:
Seriously, I've had three iBooks, and two Powerbooks in the past 2 1/2 years and have have no problems at all with my screens. For the money, these are great machines, and every bit as beautiful as PC screens, in my opinion.

That's just it. The 12" has a screen which is on par with the average PC laptop screen, while the 15" PowerBook has a screen which is better than average.

[pete]

I actually think the pb G4 12 screen is dimmer than a lot of PC screens out there. One of my closest friends has a lowly Fujitsu with a 12 inch LCD and it is significantly brighter, as is another friend's Thinkpad that is several years old. I love the little powerbooks, but the LCD (and heat) keep me from getting one.

[im_noahselby]

The 12" PB still represents tremendous value compared to the iBook. For me, it will be my only machine and I plan on getting an LCD for it down the road.

If you're buying a laptop to be used as a desktop companion than I think it's kind of silly to spend top dollar on a PB. However, if you're buying a laptop as a desktop replacement, the PB's are the only way to go, and for me the 12" PB is my preference over the larger 'books.

Remember, if the next revision of the 12" PB does indeed go G5 along with the rest of the lineup, I don't think it's unreasonable to expect a price increase for the 12" by at least $200US and possibly by as much as $400Cdn.

The screen may improve in the next revision or the next three revisions. I sure don't plan on waiting and if you need an otherwise solid laptop, I don't think anyone else should wait either.

Noah

[Eug Wanker]

Originally posted by pete:
I actually think the pb G4 12 screen is dimmer than a lot of PC screens out there. One of my closest friends has a lowly Fujitsu with a 12 inch LCD and it is significantly brighter, as is another friend's Thinkpad that is several years old. I love the little powerbooks, but the LCD (and heat) keep me from getting one.

The more expensive Fujitsus and IBMs usually have very good screens, and better than your average mid-end Dell.

[Eug Wanker]

I just got the 12" iBook 1.07 GHz. The brightness/contrast have not improved. It's good enough for most people, but the 15" PowerBook's screen is noticeably better.

I have not yet seen the 12" PowerBook 1.33 GHz screen though, but I'm guessing it's the same as the iBook's.

[iomatic]

screen looks great; seems much brighter than iBook and prev. rev. B (though not side-by-side), from memory, at least.

better report later...


busy at work appearing not to play with powerbook. must. keep. away.


...

[YoungTurk]

Originally posted by iomatic:
screen looks great; seems much brighter than iBook and prev. rev. B (though not side-by-side), from memory, at least.

better report later...


busy at work appearing not to play with powerbook. must. keep. away.


...

I have a Rev B 12" and just received my Rev C from Tekserve. While I haven't had the chance yet to transfer my data to the Rev C, side-by-side the Rev C screen is noticeably brighter, the white's are whiter, the colors richer and more saturated and the Rev C has better contrast. I'm very pleased.

More detailed review to follow.

YoungTurk

[mmurray]

Originally posted by YoungTurk:
I have a Rev B 12" and just received my Rev C from Tekserve. While I haven't had the chance yet to transfer my data to the Rev C, side-by-side the Rev C screen is noticeably brighter, the white's are whiter, the colors richer and more saturated and the Rev C has better contrast. I'm very pleased.

More detailed review to follow.

YoungTurk

Thanks for the feedback. Sounds good. Do you have access to a
15 or 17 you can compare to ? How is the angle dependence -- ie
how much can you tilt the screen before it doesn't look so good? My
Rev B is pretty sensitive to the angle compared to the 15 I used to
have.

Michael

[gsxrboy]

Originally posted by YoungTurk:
I have a Rev B 12" and just received my Rev C from Tekserve. While I haven't had the chance yet to transfer my data to the Rev C, side-by-side the Rev C screen is noticeably brighter, the white's are whiter, the colors richer and more saturated and the Rev C has better contrast. I'm very pleased.

More detailed review to follow.

YoungTurk

Thx, keep us updated, I am still deciding 12 or 15 and the screen could be the final decider.

[NYCFarmboy]

I've looked at the Apple website and cannot find the tech specs anywhere on the 12" powerbook screen ..

specifically..looking for the brightness/contrast ratio.

example: The Formac 20" LCD I use has a 250 nits brightness rating and a 600:1 contrast ratio.

Any ideas on where to locate the 12" rev C's powerbook LCD's specs?


EDIT: Wednesday April 28

I just purchased a 12" powerbook 1.3 and do not care for the screen. It may be a bit brigher than previous generation powerbooks, but the distortion from just a slight viewing angle is very bad. The photos below show my new 1.3 G4 12" powerbook with my old 500 mhz ibook with identical screensavers.

[escher]

Originally posted by NYCFarmboy:
I just purchased a 12" powerbook 1.3 and do not care for the screen. It may be a bit brigher than previous generation powerbooks, but the distortion from just a slight viewing angle is very bad.

NYCFarmboy: Thank you for sharing your iBook/500 to Rev.C 12-inch PowerBook side-by-side comparison and pictures. I will be going for exactly the same upgrade (except with the 5400rpm BTO drive). It's a bit disappointing that the screen might be worse then the one in our 3 year-old iBook/500s. But the Rev.C 12-inch PowerBook offers such a great combination of features and price that I'm willing to compromise on the internal LCD.

Originally posted by im_noahselby:
The 12" PB still represents tremendous value compared to the iBook. For me, it will be my only machine and I plan on getting an LCD for it down the road.

[snip]

However, if you're buying a laptop as a desktop replacement, the PB's are the only way to go, and for me the 12" PB is my preference over the larger 'books.

im_noahselby makes some excellent points. Sure, it would be lovely if the LCD in the Rev.C 12-inch PowerBook were of (much) higher quality. But the 12-inch PB still offers tremendous value. For me, it's just the right size. I have no interest in lugging around a heavier and larger 15-inch or 17-inch PB. To boot, the 12-inch PowerBook is significantly less expensive then its larger brothers. For me, that seals the deal.

The final point is that the 12-inch PowerBook supports DVI-out and clamshell mode. I already have a nice 17" LCD (with two VGA and one DVI inputs) that will be a perfect complement for the 12-inch PB. (The iBook cannot mirror at more than 1024 resolution.) In my opinion, portability is the no. 1 feature for a notebook. For my purposes, the 12-inch PowerBook will be a fantastic desktop replacement, which doesn't compromise on portability.

I see the 12-inch PB as the modern-day PowerBook Duo, the best of both worlds Unfortunately without the Duo Dock.

Escher

[Michel_80]

Can you imagine a PB with one of those Black Onyx type screens? That is the screen of the future and I want one.

[nagromme]

Just to be fair, it should be pointed out that the angle on the PB and iBook in those pics above is NOT the same. Since the camera is always in front of the iBook in both shots, the angle resulting is less extreme for the iBook. That makes the PBook look worse than it would if you simply swapped the two in the same shot. How much worse? I can't say. Keeping the angle and camera the same and swapping the two in place would have been a more fair pair of photos. (But thanks for the comparison just the same!)

[mbryda]

Originally posted by Eug Wanker:
The more expensive Fujitsus and IBMs usually have very good screens, and better than your average mid-end Dell.

That's not saying much. Any Dell is bottom of the barel, the Yugo (POS) of the PC world. Garbage is a better computer than a Dell.

[Michel_80]

Dell might be POS but they the same screens as Apple.

And another thing, it seems Apple can switch screens in mid - revision so both identical PB's can have different screens. So asking the question "Is RevC screen better" a bit pointless, since they could have any number of different makes.

[selowitch]

Is everybody looking at and evaluating these screens with the display properly calibrated using either the Mac OS X Displays control panel or with SuperCal? It might make a difference.

[SplijinX]

Was out at the Apple store yesterday looking at the new powerbooks and they had the 12", 15" and the 17" side by side and did not see any noticible differenced in brightness. Granted the store is pretty well lit up, so the differences may not be as significant as if it were in a darker room.

[HasanDaddy]

I've seen all the Powerbooks pretty up close

Here's my evaluation -

The 12 Rev C has a better screen than the Rev B model, but not by much --- the Rev C screen is a bit brighter and clearer, but not by a lot

The best screen brightness was seen on the 15" -- this one had just a bit better brightness than the 17

otherwise -- for the most part, the screens are all about equal

I wouldn't recommend switching from a Rev B to a Rev C simply for the screen

[h00ligan]

The color representation is better.. but the contrast really sin't. Running supercal on the machine and spending the time to calibrate it helps a lot, but i would still say it is a mediocre screen. That said I still enjoy this machine as super bright screens really give me migraines anyway. My ti screen was better. I had a 1 ghz.

the angle isn't great, but the machien is so small that i don't think you can complain that much as it isn't hard to reposition it.. you definately have to have it back a bit past 90 degrees for the best clarity and color