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all2ofme · May 3, 2003, 03:14 AM

Could anyone who knows point me in the direction of a site which explains my rights as a consumer in the UK/EU?

I'd like to buy a 20" Apple LCD but given that chances are that I won't be able to try it in the shop to check for uniformity or dead pixels I'd like to know more about what I could do to return it for another one should something not be to my satisfaction.

Also, what about extending the warranty by buying it with a credit card? I've got a Barclaycard and have no idea if this sort of thing is possible in the UK.

Thanks heaps for any help,
Ben

all2ofme · May 3, 2003, 09:12 AM

Well I've found out that extending the warrany with my credit card is possible (one free year). Hooray!

Can anyone be of any help about the no-questions-asked return policy, though?

rm199 · May 4, 2003, 06:54 AM

Things like no questions return policies are offered by retailers in addition to your statutory rights. All they _have_ to do is accept returns in the event that the item is defective, anything more is goodwill offered by the retailer. Of course the legal side of your brain is asking what defines 'defective'? That is a good question...

RM

Putta · May 4, 2003, 10:21 AM

I heard that a new EU regulation would soon mean that ANY producer of electronics would be legally bound to provide a warranty for two years....

Can anyone confirm this as it will have an enornous impact on companies like Apple which only provide a one year warranty.

DNA man · May 4, 2003, 10:24 AM

This is indeed true. All PCs and peripherals now have a 2 year warranty as a result of EU law. The rule came into force at the start of this year.

Originally posted by Putta:
I heard that a new EU regulation would soon mean that ANY producer of electronics would be legally bound to provide a warranty for two years....

Can anyone confirm this as it will have an enornous impact on companies like Apple which only provide a one year warranty.

all2ofme · May 4, 2003, 12:46 PM

Really? Then that should give me three years. Great!

To rm199 - I think that you're right for the US but that this might not be the case in the EU (it's confirmation of this I'm trying to get). I'm *almost* certain that here you have a 14 day no questions asked period in which you can return any item of electronics (obviously this doesn't apply to things like lunch or software

).

I'm hoping this policy will save all the hassle in the shops in town - they might then allow me to see the thing running before I take it off the premises. They let me do this with my Powerbook 3 years ago but I'm not sure if that was a one-off or not.

Originally posted by DNA man:
This is indeed true. All PCs and peripherals now have a 2 year warranty as a result of EU law. The rule came into force at the start of this year.

rm199 · May 4, 2003, 04:00 PM

I'll have a quick look and see if EC law adds the 14 day return condition as you describe, however the domestic UK Sale of Goods Acts do not mention such a clause (that I've found so far).

Drop a note into this thread if you find any more information, it's quite an interesting topic.

RM

rm199 · May 4, 2003, 04:30 PM

DNA: Would you be so kind as to highlight which piece of EC legislation contains the new warranty information?

All2ofme: If you shop via the phone or internet you obtain a number of additional statutory rights, such as the ability to return the goods within 7 days for any reason. In person however I can find no such clause, if the goods are in working order and do what they are supposed to, you own them

RM

MusicalTone · May 4, 2003, 04:38 PM

My advice is read the small print before you buy. I recently bought some kit through an apple outlet on Kensington High Street and was disgusted to learn that they would not even honour the basic Apple returns policy let alone add any benefits of their own.

all2ofme · May 4, 2003, 04:41 PM

Ahhhh. Maybe that's what I'm thinking of. In that case it'd be sensible to buy from Apple directly. Where are you checking when you browse for these clauses?

Originally posted by rm199:
All2ofme: If you shop via the phone or internet you obtain a number of additional statutory rights, such as the ability to return the goods within 7 days for any reason. In person however I can find no such clause, if the goods are in working order and do what they are supposed to, you own them

rm199 · May 4, 2003, 05:21 PM

Do a quick search with the terms 'consumer and protection' you'll find plenty of sites including The Office of Fair Trading with lay guides.

RM

DNA man · May 5, 2003, 12:10 PM

I don't have a URL for it but I will scan in the info (once I get to work tomorrow, it's a holiday here today) and I will get back to you.

Originally posted by rm199:
DNA: Would you be so kind as to highlight which piece of EC legislation contains the new warranty information?

All2ofme: If you shop via the phone or internet you obtain a number of additional statutory rights, such as the ability to return the goods within 7 days for any reason. In person however I can find no such clause, if the goods are in working order and do what they are supposed to, you own them

RM

rm199 · May 5, 2003, 04:07 PM

DNA: Cheers, I ended up finding the directive in question last night. The additional consumer rights are minimal in some areas and significant in others, but overall a welcome addition to the existing domestic Sale of Goods Acts.

RM

read96 · May 6, 2003, 06:37 AM

I used the European law right of return for 7 days (for any reason) when buying the new 20" from Apple UK. I had a dead pixel, so returned it immediately - the help desk/support etc. people tried to fob me off, quoting industry accepted levels of dead pixels etc. but I persisted in quoting the EU right to return and they took it back. New one had no problems. Great screen.
There is an earlier thread on this forum that quotes the exact EU law ref.

Cheers, I ended up finding the directive in question last night. The additional consumer rights are minimal in some areas and significant in others, but overall a welcome addition to the existing domestic Sale of Goods Acts.

rm199 · May 6, 2003, 08:21 AM

This whole topic raises an interesting point in its own right, if you sound confident and blast on about any legal sounding jargon including that which was invented before walking into the store you are likely to scare the retailer. As always getting your way in any situation comes down to the delivery, having the law to back you up is just useful if you don't succeed

Just out of curiousity did you purchase from Apple UK via the Internet or phone? If so then you have rights of return for any reason through existing domestic legislation without the EC directive.

I'm getting the feeling that there are more EC articles and directives on this point than just the one that came into force this year - the latest one does not grant 7 days right of return for any reason, there are strong clauses in how the goods are purchased. I'll do a search on the forums now for an older rule and see if that is what you are talking about.

RM

rm199 · May 6, 2003, 08:56 AM

Ok here is my quick review of 2 EC directives (1997/7/EC, 1999/44/EC)and some comment from Halbury's law on consumer protection.

If you walk into the store and purchase in person, unless the goods are faulty, then you own them. If the store allows you to return fully operational goods then that is their goodwill customer policy. I would suggest that if the number of dead pixels is under the common standard (most likely established by the individual manufacturer) an LCD is not faulty for that reason alone. (This is from the UK Sale of Goods Acts)

If you buy the goods from home via the Internet or phone, in addition to a number of other rights, you have the right to cancel the order within 7 days for any reason at all. (This is from the UK Consumer Protection (Distance Selling) regulations)

If you buy good across an EU country border then have a number of rights including the 7 day cancellation option. (This is from the EC directives)

So back to all2ofme's situation, buy the thing over the phone or internet and the law will be behind you should you want to return the screen within 7 days (but follow the guidelines - notify the reseller in writing etc).

RM

all2ofme · May 6, 2003, 08:58 AM

It's great to have all this info to read up on - thanks so much for chipping in with experiences.

I've been reading most of the morning on the net about this (Office of Fair Trading's, the Consumers Association etc.) and it all seems to point to an individual's right to return something ordered over the phone/net/mail order (i.e. not at a store or from a salesperson in person) if it proves to be unsatisfactory for any reason (as long as it's within the cooling off period) This cooling off period appears to increase in duration if the consumer isn't clearly informed of their rights and any time limits in question.

What's unclear to me now is how this differs if it's a limited company making the purchase. I want to get VAT back when I make this purchase, though it seems that businesses have fewer rights of refusal when it comes to things such as a cooling off period. I suppose there's nothing stopping me making the purchase as an individual and then putting it through as expenses when I'm happy with the item...right?

all2ofme · May 6, 2003, 09:03 AM

RM - GREAT researching. I wonder how the UK Apple store is treated - is it across an EU country border (being in Ireland), even though it's the UK store?

Appreciate that ordering direct from Apple or another mail order company seems to be the best way to do it. I'll feel better knowing that whatever happens (although it might end up being a hassle) I will end up with a screen that I'm happy with.

Originally posted by rm199:
If you buy good across an EU country border then have a number of rights including the 7 day cancellation option. (This is from the EC directives)