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Landos Mustache · Aug 10, 2006, 11:11 AM

Oh dear God I hope this is 100% wrong.

"SOME 30 per cent of Americans cannot say in what year the September 11, 2001 terrorist attacks against New York's World Trade Centre and the Pentagon in Washington took place, according to a poll published in the Washington Post newspaper"

http://www.news.com.au/story/0,23599,20078887-2,00.html

Dork. · Aug 10, 2006, 11:17 AM

This memory black hole is essentially the problem of the older crowd - 48 per cent of those who did not know were between the ages of 55 and 64, and 47 per cent were older than 65, the poll shows.

If I read this corectly, 95% of the people who could not recall the year were over 55 years old? Maybe this study says more about memory loss in old age than indifference on the part of Americans as a whole....

Dakar · Aug 10, 2006, 11:19 AM

Unbelievable.

Doofy · Aug 10, 2006, 11:23 AM

Originally Posted by Landos Mustache

"SOME 30 per cent of Americans cannot say in what year the September 11, 2001 terrorist attacks against New York's World Trade Centre and the Pentagon in Washington took place, according to a poll published in the Washington Post newspaper"

Only 30%? I thought there were more Democrats than that.

ghporter · Aug 10, 2006, 11:26 AM

I'd love to see the raw data and the survey plan. Could it be that the Post simply called a random bunch of people without a clue? I'm hoping that's the case.

As a member of the U.S. military then (and for another 3 1/2 years after that), of course the date is burned into my brain. And everyone I know that I've discussed the issue with is similarly on top of such things as the date of 9/11/01. But I have never discussed it with, for example, classmates in the various schools I've attended since then. While I'm sure there are a BUNCH of 18-20 year olds who lack even the most basic clue on even the most basic issues, what about people older than that? I just don't know. And that scares me.

Zeeb · Aug 10, 2006, 11:27 AM

Originally Posted by Doofy

Only 30%? I thought there were more Democrats than that.

Oh my God you should do stand up.

Chuckit · Aug 10, 2006, 11:28 AM

Originally Posted by Doofy

Only 30%? I thought there were more Democrats than that.

I was going to say I was surprised there were that many college students.

Doofy · Aug 10, 2006, 11:30 AM

Originally Posted by Zeeb

Oh my God you should do stand up.

In other news, 30% of Americans have been shown to not have a sense of humour.

Landos Mustache · Aug 10, 2006, 11:30 AM

Originally Posted by ghporter

I'd love to see the raw data and the survey plan. Could it be that the Post simply called a random bunch of people without a clue? I'm hoping that's the case.

I don't think they have a dumb list or anything like that.

I can't imagine that a large percentage of the people that got it wrong can't even GUESS an approximate date.

Doofy · Aug 10, 2006, 11:30 AM

Originally Posted by Chuckit

I was going to say I was surprised there were that many college students.

That works too.

Chuckit · Aug 10, 2006, 11:31 AM

Originally Posted by ghporter

As a member of the U.S. military then (and for another 3 1/2 years after that), of course the date is burned into my brain. And everyone I know that I've discussed the issue with is similarly on top of such things as the date of 9/11/01. But I have never discussed it with, for example, classmates in the various schools I've attended since then. While I'm sure there are a BUNCH of 18-20 year olds who lack even the most basic clue on even the most basic issues, what about people older than that? I just don't know. And that scares me.

I don't see how any American over the age of 10 could not know. Like, come on, you were there.

Dakar · Aug 10, 2006, 11:31 AM

Originally Posted by ghporter

As a member of the U.S. military then (and for another 3 1/2 years after that), of course the date is burned into my brain.

Dude, as someone born and raised in this country that date is burned into my mind.

Dakar · Aug 10, 2006, 11:32 AM

Originally Posted by Doofy

Only 30%? I thought there were more Democrats than that.

Grow up.

Doofy · Aug 10, 2006, 11:34 AM

BTW, I've been having some hilarious moments watching UK TV lately. Like watching a bunch of English people who don't know what the strip of water between England and France is called, or don't know who Margaret Thatcher is.

itai195 · Aug 10, 2006, 11:35 AM

30% sounds like a lot, but then I guess a lot of people are just really bad with dates. This reminds me of that Leno skit where they manage to find people on the street who don't know basic US history and other facts. Personally, I suspect a lot of that has to do with schools over recent decades being forced to teach kids how to take tests rather than actually providing information, but that's getting off topic

Doofy · Aug 10, 2006, 11:35 AM

Originally Posted by Dakar

Grow up.

No.

Kr0nos · Aug 10, 2006, 11:39 AM

Originally Posted by Doofy

Only 30%? I thought there were more Democrats than that.

Most of them over 55? - Not a chance!

Chuckit · Aug 10, 2006, 11:39 AM

Originally Posted by Doofy

BTW, I've been having some hilarious moments watching UK TV lately. Like watching a bunch of English people who don't know what the strip of water between England and France is called, or don't know who Margaret Thatcher is.

I remember Jay Leno once went to a University of California graduation ceremony for his "Jay Walking" bit. It was sad. Some chick in a cap-and-gown was stumbling to try to remember how many moons the planet Earth has. She was like, "Uh…come on, I took astronomy three years ago." People can be really thick.

ghporter · Aug 10, 2006, 11:40 AM

Originally Posted by Doofy

BTW, I've been having some hilarious moments watching UK TV lately. Like watching a bunch of English people who don't know what the strip of water between England and France is called, or don't know who Margaret Thatcher is.

Those are more amusing lacks of facts than Americans not knowing what year goes with 9/11. Much more amusing!

Not know who Maggie is? I'd think that about half the country would threaten their kids with having her eat them, and the others would have pictures of her up on the walls along with Mum and The Queen. I guess you never know about other people's politics...

itai195 · Aug 10, 2006, 11:42 AM

Originally Posted by Chuckit

I remember Jay Leno once went to a University of California graduation ceremony for his "Jay Walking" bit. It was sad. Some chick in a cap-and-gown was stumbling to try to remember how many moons the planet Earth has. She was like, "Uh…come on, I took astronomy three years ago." People can be really thick.

I hope that was UC Riverside or Santa Cruz

Doofy · Aug 10, 2006, 11:45 AM

Originally Posted by Chuckit

I remember Jay Leno once went to a University of California graduation ceremony for his "Jay Walking" bit. It was sad. Some chick in a cap-and-gown was stumbling to try to remember how many moons the planet Earth has. She was like, "Uh…come on, I took astronomy three years ago." People can be really thick.

The scary bit is that these people get to vote.

I've been convinced for a while that on every voting slip there should be a simple multiple-choice questionnaire about recent current events - with the votes of those getting the questions wrong discarded.

Doofy · Aug 10, 2006, 11:52 AM

Originally Posted by ghporter

Those are more amusing lacks of facts than Americans not knowing what year goes with 9/11. Much more amusing!

Not know who Maggie is? I'd think that about half the country would threaten their kids with having her eat them, and the others would have pictures of her up on the walls along with Mum and The Queen. I guess you never know about other people's politics...

I noticed something very interesting about UK politics a while back (and I'm sure this happens in the US too)...

There's a lot of people who take absolutely no notice of current events yet come election time they go and put their mark next to their party, usually derived at because their parents voted that way (I've heard "My grandfather was labour, my dad was Labour, so I'm Labour" more than a few times). I call it "legacy voting".

For example... ...I know a guy who didn't know a thing about the Asian tsunami until he got back to work off his Christmas holiday a week later. All his workmates were talking about it and he hadn't a clue - they had to tell him.

Kr0nos · Aug 10, 2006, 11:56 AM

Originally Posted by Doofy

I've been convinced for a while that on every voting slip there should be a simple multiple-choice questionnaire about recent current events - with the votes of those getting the questions wrong discarded.

I would seriously rethink that proposition if you ever want a conservative candidate to win an election again.

Doofy · Aug 10, 2006, 11:59 AM

Originally Posted by Kr0nos

I would seriously rethink that proposition if you ever want a conservative candidate to win an election again.

Yeah, I don't want conservative candidates to win though - I want independent libertarian candidates to win.

Landos Mustache · Aug 10, 2006, 12:00 PM

Originally Posted by Doofy

The scary bit is that these people get to vote.

I've been convinced for a while that on every voting slip there should be a simple multiple-choice questionnaire about recent current events - with the votes of those getting the questions wrong discarded.

I was going to say the same thing. If they can Vote for war presidents like Bush they should at the very least know what date started this whole kaffufel.

I mean everyone knows 9/11 so just add another 1 to remember the year.. 9/11/1

Geez

So what do these polls tell us about Americans concerning this matter...

30% don't know the year of 9/11
60% oppose the war

And most puzzling.... Athiest and gays are voted at the most least trusted minority... even over terrorists. That is just um... weird.

When was the last time a queer killed anyone? They also seem to forget it was religious reasons this war started. If they were Atheists and gay in the east we would all be better off.

Chuckit · 12:45 PM

Originally Posted by Kr0nos

I would seriously rethink that proposition if you ever want a conservative candidate to win an election again.

Which party was it that lost the election in 2000 because its members failed to punch the correct bubble?

Saad · Aug 10, 2006, 01:47 PM

Originally Posted by Doofy

The scary bit is that these people get to vote.

I've been convinced for a while that on every voting slip there should be a simple multiple-choice questionnaire about recent current events - with the votes of those getting the questions wrong discarded.

It's really depressing to see what some people pick candidates for. At my summer job (I taught mountain biking mb), eleven yearolds were talking about how Kerry would take their guns, and that he's homosexual. The same thing happens with people who vote Democratic. Unfortunately, the idea has a little baggage.

CRASH HARDDRIVE · Aug 10, 2006, 01:55 PM

Had 9/11 been foiled:

"Hey wait a minute! This wasn't some bunch of radical Islamics with bombs about to go off, being stopped with their fingers on the button! It was just some harmless flight school students who had nothing more serious than box cutters. What's the big deal? Must be a plot by BushCo to scare everyone."

itai195 · Aug 10, 2006, 02:02 PM

Crash, you are really good at deliberately obfuscating what others say, unfortunately I think you posted this in the wrong thread.

Chuckit · Aug 10, 2006, 02:19 PM

Originally Posted by CRASH HARDDRIVE

Had 9/11 been foiled:

"Hey wait a minute! This wasn't some bunch of radical Islamics with bombs about to go off, being stopped with their fingers on the button! It was just some harmless flight school students who had nothing more serious than box cutters. What's the big deal? Must be a plot by BushCo to scare everyone."

Your trolling skills are weak!

CRASH HARDDRIVE · Aug 10, 2006, 02:44 PM

Originally Posted by itai195

Crash, you are really good at deliberately obfuscating what others say, unfortunately I think you posted this in the wrong thread.

And yet we all know that this is EXACTLY what many people would have said had 9/11 been foiled- guaranteed. Heck, 9/11 DID happen, and people still made up conspiracy theories to day it didn't.

itai195 · Aug 10, 2006, 02:48 PM

And yet, what does that have to do with this thread? By the way, the irony of what you're saying is that these are precisely the reasons why the 9/11 plot wasn't foiled: the government didn't take "some harmless flight school students" seriously.

Monique · Aug 10, 2006, 02:53 PM

Many conservatives say that the approval rating of 34% for Bush is meaningless.

So that 30% of a limited amount of people is also meaningless.

CRASH HARDDRIVE · Aug 10, 2006, 02:56 PM

Originally Posted by itai195

And yet, what does that have to do with this thread?

That 30% of people have already forgotten the date. Just as many more have already forgotten the REASON.

By the way, the irony of what you're saying is that these are precisely the reasons why the 9/11 plot wasn't foiled: the government didn't take "some harmless flight school students" seriously.

No one did. But some people STILL don't take "harmless flight school students" seriously.

itai195 · Aug 10, 2006, 02:59 PM

Yeah. Well, moonbats are a renewable resource...

ghporter · Aug 10, 2006, 06:38 PM

Originally Posted by Doofy

I noticed something very interesting about UK politics a while back (and I'm sure this happens in the US too)...

There's a lot of people who take absolutely no notice of current events yet come election time they go and put their mark next to their party, usually derived at because their parents voted that way (I've heard "My grandfather was labour, my dad was Labour, so I'm Labour" more than a few times). I call it "legacy voting".

For example... ...I know a guy who didn't know a thing about the Asian tsunami until he got back to work off his Christmas holiday a week later. All his workmates were talking about it and he hadn't a clue - they had to tell him.

Same thing here. There are people who vote because they are expected to by their peer group and/or family, and they vote the way those who pressure them want them to. Fortunately they're not very many. Unfortunately, they make up a sizeable bloc of voters, as there are far more people who just don't bother to un-@$$ the chair to go out and even make a bad vote.

And there are some who "would rather vote for a yellow dog than a Republican." These are known as "Yellow Dog Democrats," and they aren't extinct. There's no name that I know of for people who would vote for a kitchen sponge over a Democrat, but I can guarantee there are bunches of them too.

It's all stupid too, since from a European perspective, our two main parties are closer together than ANY European party; it's hard for an Italian of German, for example, to tell the difference between Democrats and Republicans. The worst part is that, instead of looking for commonalities so they can attract more moderate voters, both parties are working hard at becoming more polar and then manipulating things so that their polar fanatic groups vote more. Hello? That's not what our Constitution is about (especially some of the finagling Mr. DeLay (no longer of Sugar Land, Texas) and his bunch of ~~co-conspirators~~ supporters ~~got caught~~ were doing over the last few years.

Political rant over... Sorry about the mess.

hey!_Zeus · Aug 10, 2006, 07:22 PM

They think Saddam Hussein flew one of the planes for crissake. What the fekk do you expect from a bunch of trailerites?

brassplayersrock² · Aug 10, 2006, 07:31 PM

I'M A TOYS 'R' US KID! lalalala

Spliffdaddy · Aug 10, 2006, 07:37 PM

Originally Posted by Chuckit

Which party was it that lost the election in 2000 because its members failed to punch the correct bubble?

yep.

*SMACKDOWN*

Doofy · Aug 10, 2006, 07:54 PM

Originally Posted by brassplayersrock

I'M A TOYS 'R' US KID! lalalala

Dude, are you sitting on the other side of the room from your monitor or what?

Chuckit · Aug 10, 2006, 08:40 PM

Ack, I told them the radiation could have unexpected effects on Doofy's posts!

Kr0nos · Aug 11, 2006, 03:27 AM

Originally Posted by Chuckit

Which party was it that lost the election in 2000 because its members failed to punch the correct bubble?

The libertarians, obviously!

Dakar · Aug 11, 2006, 04:08 AM

Originally Posted by brassplayersrock

I'M A TOYS 'R' US KID! lalalala

In that case, I agree with him.

molala · Aug 11, 2006, 04:32 AM

These are probably the same people who forget their spouse's and loved ones' birthdays and anniversaries, who can't tell exactly the ages of their children. It's not that uncommon and doesn't mean they don't care.

Landos Mustache · Aug 11, 2006, 10:20 AM

Originally Posted by molala

These are probably the same people who forget their spouse's and loved ones' birthdays and anniversaries, who can't tell exactly the ages of their children. It's not that uncommon and doesn't mean they don't care.

Well I think your nation at war in more than one place and all because of one event is a bit more important than a birthday.

molala · Aug 11, 2006, 01:31 PM

Originally Posted by Landos Mustache

Well I think your nation at war in more than one place and all because of one event is a bit more important than a birthday.

You could get into a lot more trouble forgetting a birthday than forgetting which year 9/11 was. So in practical terms, it's more important to remember the birthday because it's better to offend strangers than people close to you.

davesimondotcom · Aug 11, 2006, 01:55 PM

Sean Hannity used to (I don't hear him much anymore) do a "Man on the street Thursday" bit where he would send someone down to interview people on the street.

He'd as them questions such as "Do you know who the Vice President is?" and "Who is the Speaker of the House?" He'd sometimes have them shown pictures of people and ask them who they were. They'd always get Britney Spears, Michael Jackson, Oprah, etc. They'd never get "that old guy" (Dick Cheney) or "ooh, I know her from somewhere" (Condi Rice), etc.

It's sad, really, but some people are blissfully ignorant. Many of them are the same people who can be completely mislead by people convincing them we didn't land on the moon, 9/11 didn't happen but was movie special effects, etc.

Personally, I have that date burned in my brain permanently. I can still remember every detail of it.

But at the same time, when we hardly ever show pictures of the towers, people jumping, the collapses, the dust, the people running, and so on, we can't exactly blame some people for not remembering.

Never mind, we totally can blame them. Idiots.

davesimondotcom · Aug 11, 2006, 01:57 PM

Originally Posted by hey!_Zeus

They think Saddam Hussein flew one of the planes for crissake. What the fekk do you expect from a bunch of trailerites?

Hey now, two of my better friends live in trailers. And they are well-informed. One happens to be a former Marine and current firefighter. I'm pretty sure he remembers the date.

You can be just as uninformed living in some fancy penthouse apartment.

And again, I don't know a single person who thinks Saddam LITERALLY was in on the 9/11 plot. That doesn't mean he didn't support terrorism, though, does it?

Landos Mustache · Aug 11, 2006, 02:05 PM

Perhaps they just surveyed these people.

http://ebaumsworld.com/2006/08/peopleidiot.html

Doofy · Aug 11, 2006, 02:07 PM

Originally Posted by davesimondotcom

You can be just as uninformed living in some fancy penthouse apartment.

In that recent TV viewing I mentioned above, the following happened:

The "contestants" were invited to place fridge-magnet style name tags of countries onto an unmarked (save for national boundaries) map of the world. So, place Brazil tag on Brazil, etc.

One "contestant" placed the "United States" tag on Canada.

The "contestant"? Lady Victoria Hervey. Her abode? A penthouse in the United States.