[Mastrap]

Originally posted by SimeyTheLimey:


The tighter a budget someone is on, the less people care about peripheral issues like looks. Looks can seal the deal, but being too expensive will definitely kill it if the budget won't stretch.

Not trying to be argumentative, but wouldn't the success of the iPod suggest otherwise? Although being neither the cheapest not the best specced player out there is is certainly the best looking. And look who owns the market?

Apple will never again produce a CRT screen, not with Steve at the helm. And good riddance to them too, in my personal opinion. The only place where they still have a right to exist is where 100% colour accuracy is important, in pre-press and image manipulation.

I think that people asking Apple to sell a cheap screen do not understand what Apple is trying to do here. The mini is not the end of the purchasing road as far as Apple is concerned. It's an Apple Light, something to draw the user from the world of the PC to the world of Apple, as you've suggested. Apple is hoping that once hooked the next purchase will be an iMac, a PB or a tower.

Apple would not have released the mini without taaking an in-depth look at the market. I suggest that their findings would have supported the idea that the majority of PC users use a USB keyboard and a compatible screen. That is all that matters. Apple has no interest in new users buying a mini, if that's where you are then go and buy an eMac/iMac.

[SimeyTheLimey]

Originally posted by Mastrap:
Not trying to be argumentative, but wouldn't the success of the iPod suggest otherwise?

Not necessarily. I suspect there are still more users of cheap regular CD players than any type of mp-3 player. At least, that is my impression walking about town and riding the subway - even in a wealthy city.

Apple will never again produce a CRT screen, not with Steve at the helm. And good riddance to them too, in my personal opinion.

I'm not arguing that Apple should make a CRT screen, only that they should make them easily available to buyers of their new entry-level computer who happen to buy them in the Apple store.

The fact that you say "not with Steve at the helm" and then give your own personal antipathy toward them kind of makes my point for me. What I suspect drives this decision is what Apple management and other wealthy enthusiasts think of cheaper screens, not what the buyer of a $499 computer would think. Many of those people would no doubt prefer a $1000 20" LCD. But if they could afford that, they probably wouldn't be in the market for a $499 cpu, would they?

Remember, the mini isn't aimed at people like you. It is aimed at people with lesser budgets and lesser interest in computers.

I think that people asking Apple to sell a cheap screen do not understand what Apple is trying to do here. The mini is not the end of the purchasing road as far as Apple is concerned. It's an Apple Light, something to draw the user from the world of the PC to the world of Apple, as you've suggested. Apple is hoping that once hooked the next purchase will be an iMac, a PB or a tower.

No, I suspect Apple hasn't quite figured out what Apple is doing here. If they really want the mini to be a hook to get people to switch, then the Apple store should be making it as easy and as cheap as possible for people to switch.

They should not throw ideological roadblocks in their way, and should not make the kind of arguments you just made with me about affordable CRT monitors. You don't argue with the customer. Never! All that is going to do is turn away the very people Apple should be trying to hook -- customers who don't yet have any commitment to the Apple brand.

[Millennium]

A lot of people here don't seem to understand Apple's target market. At all.

Apple is targeting people who already have a perfectly good monitor, keyboard, and mouse. Given the bath they're probably taking on these devices, I see no need for them to make things which will not sell, because the target market does not need them.

Granted, if someone else makes these things, Apple should sell them in their stores, possibly as a bundle. But I can't help but ask yet again: why must Apple make absolutely everything for absolutely everybody?!. This "all-Apple or nothing" attitude has got to go.

And for crying out loud, these things come up with stuff to hook the box up to a TV if you're really that desperate for a monitor. Low resolution, but awesome screen size, and at no extra charge

[SimeyTheLimey]

Originally posted by Millennium:
Granted, if someone else makes these things, Apple should sell them in their stores, possibly as a bundle.

That's all I am saying. They should sell the third party monitors in their stores. I don't understand why that idea bothers people.

You can't assume that every switcher has a good monitor. Several I know (including me) waited until their old monitor died before switching.

[jbartone]

I was just thinking, if you plug in a USB keyboard and mouse, all the USB slots are gone!

That sucks.

[Spheric Harlot]

Originally posted by SimeyTheLimey:
I hate to break it to you and Thunderous, but Apple isn't avoiding the low end of the market. It just launched a $499 computer.

The idea is to get the masses hooked. It's a good idea.

somebody posted links up above to a $399 Dell that INCLUDES a monitor.

but yeah, half-touch�, sorta.

[Spheric Harlot]

Originally posted by jbartone:
I was just thinking, if you plug in a USB keyboard and mouse, all the USB slots are gone!

That sucks.

hub'em.

[ink]

Originally posted by Spheric Harlot:
hub'em.

... which, like he said, sucks.

[jbartone]

Originally posted by ink:
... which, like he said, sucks.

Yeah. I don't really want to buy a hub that's like, half the size of the Mac Mini itself!

Screw it. I'll just go BT. Does anyone know any really cheap-ass BT KB+Mouse combos?

[CRASH HARDDRIVE]

Gonna have to go with anecdotal evidence here (granted, not the best kind) but I have to agree with thunderous et al on this one. I know many people who are perfect Mac mini �target buyers�, people who�ve already owned a computer(/s) for years; many of them own older desktop computers that they�ve upgraded while they kept an eye on Apple over the years from a distance. The types that say: �I�d love to get a Mac to replace my PC- or my aging Mac that I�ve had for years- but the G5 is beyond my budget range, and an iMac/eMac screen is actually a downgrade to the Samsung 19� LCD monitor I have.�

There are people that for years have had to resort to finding a deal on an older hand-me-down G3/G4 desktop from a second-hand source. This isn�t profitable for Apple, or completely satisfying for the buyer, or an expansion of the Mac market, despite the fact that these are Mac users.

Yesterday I was with a group of co-workers gathered around someone�s computer eye-balling the new Mac mini. I haven�t seen the same level of group interest in anything Apple since the G5s first came out. Several people made comments like: �It�ll beat the stuffing out of the Mac I have now,� (meaning an older G3 or G4 desktop they�ve been making due with.) Several have had nothing but PCs at home, but because they work in a creative industry, want a Mac at home too. A few already were making plans to buy a Mac mini. All of these people already own a computer and their monitor of choice. The only immediate �gratification delay� roadblock I can foresee, is some of them having to buy a USB keyboard- but for many of those that own an older Mac, that�s not even a problem.

I don�t think Apple is necessarily aiming this at computer newbies. I think they know there�s a huge potential market of already comp-savvy people who�ll be interested in the mini, enough to make it a success. Personally, I think they�re on to something.

[itai195]

Simey's point seems pretty simple to understand -- the Mac Mini is for switchers, but that's not to say some newbies wouldn't be interested either. Just sell some third party CRTs in the Apple Store, it's not such a bad idea.

[SimeyTheLimey]

Originally posted by itai195:
Simey's point seems pretty simple to understand -- the Mac Mini is for switchers, but that's not to say some newbies wouldn't be interested either. Just sell some third party CRTs in the Apple Store, it's not such a bad idea.

That, and I challenge the assumption that ALL switchers already have a serviceable monitor.

Reading Crash's post, I'm wondering if we simply have in mind a different group of people when we say "switcher?" When I think of that, I don't think first of a computer-savvy graphics professional who already has an expensive screen. I think of the average user in the street who uses a PC at work and needs something for the house.

That's not necessarily a complete newbie. It could be someone like I was when I switched. I had a couple of PCs before I got my Mac 3 years ago. The last one still ran Windows 95 and had a crappy 15" monitor. I threw it all away. The idea of replacing the CPU but keeping the little beige screen, keyboard, and mouse would not have seemed sensible to me.

I'm still not a power user around here. I get the impression sometimes that those who are have a hard time thinking down to our level.

[Spheric Harlot]

Originally posted by jbartone:
Yeah. I don't really want to buy a hub that's like, half the size of the Mac Mini itself!

Well, then don't.


That one's by Ultron, it's USB 1.1, but it works fine for all low-speed peripherals, including my USB 1.1 audio interface.

[Spheric Harlot]

Originally posted by SimeyTheLimey:
That, and I challenge the assumption that ALL switchers already have a serviceable monitor.

Reading Crash's post, I'm wondering if we simply have in mind a different group of people when we say "switcher?" When I think of that, I don't think first of a computer-savvy graphics professional who already has an expensive screen. I think of the average user in the street who uses a PC at work and needs something for the house.

That's not necessarily a complete newbie. It could be someone like I was when I switched. I had a couple of PCs before I got my Mac 3 years ago. The last one still ran Windows 95 and had a crappy 15" monitor. I threw it all away. The idea of replacing the CPU but keeping the little beige screen, keyboard, and mouse would not have seemed sensible to me.

I'm still not a power user around here. I get the impression sometimes that those who are have a hard time thinking down to our level.

So when are you buying your first Mac?

Wait, you HAVE ONE? That makes no sense.

-s*

[CRASH HARDDRIVE]

Originally posted by SimeyTheLimey:
That, and I challenge the assumption that ALL switchers already have a serviceable monitor.

Reading Crash's post, I'm wondering if we simply have in mind a different group of people when we say "switcher?" When I think of that, I don't think first of a computer-savvy graphics professional who already has an expensive screen. I think of the average user in the street who uses a PC at work and needs something for the house.

I think we (and more importantly Apple) are thinking of different users. I think Apple is targeting "computer users", over complete newbies. My parents (specifically my mother) are a classic example. My mom�s no computer pro, by any stretch of the imagination. But she is a computer user- has been for years. Her idea of �upgrading� the crappy PC she uses, was a decent 17� LCD. The monitor is more important to her than the CPU. The CPU is hidden somewhere on the floor under the desk, the monitor is front and center. She doesn�t sit and stare at the CPU, she obviously looks at the monitor all the time, so it actually has more immediate importance to her.

I just don�t think it�s all that unreasonable in 2005 to expect that a great number of people already own computers, and would threfore have monitors they don�t mind looking at for hours on end, especially in an era when a CRT runs less than $200, or an entry level flat panel $300.

Could Apple stock a few third party CRTs and LCDs in their stores to play to the 'newbie' crowd? Sure, that�s a valid point. But I�d wager Apple�s own research has told them that their intended customers for the mini are at least �tech savvy� enough to either already have a monitor they like, or know where to get one on their own.

It�s funny, but I actually see the lack of a USB keyboard as a greater obstacle than the monitor. Many people, even the greenest computer newbie can easily find a decent monitor virtually anywhere, in any decent electronics store, but a USB keyboard? Comparatively speaking, those are much harder to come by, and far less common. Most general purpose electronic stores would be more likely to stock only PC compatible PS2 keyboards.

[SimeyTheLimey]

Originally posted by Spheric Harlot:
So when are you buying your first Mac?

Wait, you HAVE ONE? That makes no sense.

-s*

Originally posted by CRASH HARDDRIVE:
I think we (and more importantly Apple) are thinking of different users. I think Apple is targeting "computer users", over complete newbies.

They may be, but it shouldn't really be either/or if the intent is to gain market share -- which is what "switching" is all about.

My point was simply that if you lure a switcher into an Apple store, it makes little sense to tell them to leave that store and enter a competitor's store to buy something that you know full well a sizable percentage of them will be buying at the same time as a new computer. Just flog 'em a cheap third party monitor if they want one, or not if they don't.

I used to run and independent camera store when I was younger. I can't imagine refusing to stock necessary accessories just because the customer might already have them. Film, sir? No, we don't sell film. Go to Jessops to buy your film. Only, whatever you do, don't look at their cameras while you are there.


I agree with you on the need for a keyboard adapter and also mouse adapter. But at least there the Apple store sells products that would work. That problem can be simply fixed by a staff member asking a question and pointing out the potential issue during the sale.

[Spheric Harlot]

Originally posted by SimeyTheLimey:

It's a rather weak argument to claim that Apple needs to offer options for people like you, considering that you *probably* couldn't be using a Mac if they didn't already.

Seeing as you didn't have a monitor, mouse, and keyboard available when you switched - what was your choice?

[CRASH HARDDRIVE]

Originally posted by SimeyTheLimey:
My point was simply that if you lure a switcher into an Apple store, it makes little sense to tell them to leave that store and enter a competitor's store to buy something that you know full well a sizable percentage of them will be buying at the same time as a new computer.

I think we�re defining �switcher� differently. A switcher to me, by the very definition, is switching over from one platform�s CPU to another. In order to switch they already have a monitor they were using on whatever it is they switched over from. I gave the example of my mother- she already loves her 17� monitor, why would she be looking for a new one simply by switching the CPU?

In her computing �world view� changing over to a Mac would at the most basic level mean the image displayed on her monitor would be Mac OSX, not Windows XP, and she�d have the cool little mini unit up on her desk, not on the floor. �Switching� for her, wouldn�t include her monitor -which she already 'upgraded' at her leisure anyway.

If she went shopping for a new PC, it�d be the same situation- she�d be looking for a new CPU, not a new monitor. There are plenty of PC makers who recognize her type as a target customer, who would be happy just to sell her a new CPU without a monitor. Apple has just added itself to that list.

My best guess is, Apple�s bean counters have already done the math with regards to the cost in store/warehouse space for 3rd party monitors (hefty I�d bet), vs. projected mini sales to �switchers� who are savvy enough to own obtain a monitor, and figured out the later is more profitable.

I guess time will tell if they were right. If they aren�t, then we�ll probably see third party monitors show up in Apple stores and online.

[SimeyTheLimey]

Originally posted by Spheric Harlot:
It's a rather weak argument to claim that Apple needs to offer options for people like you, considering that you *probably* couldn't be using a Mac if they didn't already.

I think you simply misunderstood the point I have been making. It's not that Apple is raising an impossible hurdle. Just one high enough to discourage many of the people they are hoping to convert to their brand.

It's also specifically related to the way consumers shop, which is to say, often quite impulsively.

[Spheric Harlot]

Originally posted by SimeyTheLimey:
I think you simply misunderstood the point I have been making. It's not that Apple is raising an impossible hurdle. Just one high enough to discourage many of the people they are hoping to convert to their brand.

I believe the point of the Mac mini is that it's effectivey REMOVED a HUGE hurdle that was discouraging a LOT of people from converting to their brand - which is that the cheapest Mac systems all came with a monitor.

The number of people affected by your backwards-argument is negligible, considering that Apple hasn't actively blocked this handful of prospective switchers, but rather embraced a huge crowd of their peers.

[nath]

Originally posted by itai195:
Simey's point seems pretty simple to understand -- the Mac Mini is for switchers, but that's not to say some newbies wouldn't be interested either. Just sell some third party CRTs in the Apple Store, it's not such a bad idea.

why not a smaller, budget Apple LCD?

[SimeyTheLimey]

Originally posted by CRASH HARDDRIVE:
I think we�re defining �switcher� differently. A switcher to me, by the very definition, is switching over from one platform�s CPU to another. In order to switch they already have a monitor they were using on whatever it is they switched over from.

A counter-example to your definition: When I switched, I had a computer (a PC), a monitor, and a keyboard, and a mouse.

The monitor was small, and old. It had become fuzzy.

The keyboard was ratty, and a key stuck.

The mouse was old.

By your definition, was I a switcher or not? I had all the things that you list, but they were worthless to me. I replaced them all when I replaced the computer.

As a matter of fact, the elderly nature of these peripherals was part of the thing that motivated me to replace the whole shebang in the first place. If I had all new peripherals, I probably would have held off longer. To an average user, the CPU doesn't have to be cutting edge.

I think you are mistaking what makes a switcher switch. It isn't some spontaneous decision where you wake up some day and think Wow! Today I will replace a perfectly good computer. No! A switcher is someone in the market for a new computer and who wonders whether to replace it with another PC, or an Apple.

That's Apple's moment of opportunity. And it is a moment that can easily be thrown away.

[Spheric Harlot]

Originally posted by SimeyTheLimey:
By your definition, was I a switcher or not? I had all the things that you list, but they were worthless to me. I replaced them all when I replaced the computer.

As a matter of fact, the elderly nature of these peripherals was part of the thing that motivated me to replace the whole shebang in the first place. If I had all new peripherals, I probably would have held off longer. To an average user, the CPU doesn't have to be cutting edge.

I think you are mistaking what makes a switcher switch. It isn't some spontaneous decision where you wake up some day and think Wow! Today I will replace a perfectly good computer. No! A switcher is someone in the market for a new computer and who wonders whether to replace it with another PC, or an Apple.

That's Apple's moment of opportunity. And it is a moment that can easily be thrown away.

Well, thank GOD they make the iBook and the iMac, else they'd throw it all away.

[CRASH HARDDRIVE]

Originally posted by SimeyTheLimey:
By your definition, was I a switcher or not? I had all the things that you list, but they were worthless to me. I replaced them all when I replaced the computer.

I must have missed the details about what you switched to, so I don�t know for sure. So you bought a Mac, and an Apple display, at the same time/location then?

I�m curious- you switched from a PC to a Mac, and the choices Apple offered fit your needs enough for you to make the switch. Why all of a sudden does the addition of another option (the mini) change this?

So you wouldn�t have switched to a Mac if the mini were an option at the time? Why wouldn�t you have bought whatever Mac/monitor combination you have now, if it suited your needs, mini or not?

[SimeyTheLimey]

Originally posted by Spheric Harlot:
I believe the point of the Mac mini is that it's effectivey REMOVED a HUGE hurdle that was discouraging a LOT of people from converting to their brand - which is that the cheapest Mac systems all came with a monitor.

No. The obstacle was price. eMacs weren't attractive, and iMacs start at $1299, which is expensive in PC terms. A mini ($499) plus 17" inch monitor (about $190) is competitively priced to a low-end PC with similar monitor. It's as simple as that.

Of course, anyone who already has a servicable monitor that they want to keep can do so. The question is what does the salesperson say if someone walks in the store and wants a monitor to go with their mini.

Bad answers are:

1. No, Steve doesn't like cheap monitors. Please go buy it at another store.
2. Why don't you already have a monitor, you plebian?
3. Yes, Sir, here is a beautiful $1000 monitor to go with your $499 computer.

[nath]

Originally posted by SimeyTheLimey:
No. The obstacle was price. eMacs weren't attractive, and iMacs start at $1299, which is expensive in PC terms. A mini ($499) plus 17" inch monitor (about $190) is competitively priced to a low-end PC with similar monitor. It's as simple as that.

Of course, anyone who already has a servicable monitor that they want to keep can do so. The question is what does the salesperson say if someone walks in the store and wants a monitor to go with their mini.

Bad answers are:

1. No, Steve doesn't like cheap monitors. Please go buy it at another store.
2. Why don't you already have a monitor, you plebian?
3. Yes, Sir, here is a beautiful $1000 monitor to go with your $499 computer.

I still don't get what's wrong with Apple producing a budget 15 or 17" monitor. Same approach as for the Mini Mac itself. And they get to keep all the money rather than giving shelf space to a 3rd party.

[SimeyTheLimey]

Originally posted by nath:
I still don't get what's wrong with Apple producing a budget 15 or 17" monitor. Same approach as for the Mini Mac itself. And they get to keep all the money rather than giving shelf space to a 3rd party.

They don't have such a monitor, and making one would require investment, time, and risk that the market doesn't like it.

My solution doesn't require any investment and can be implemented immediately and carries no risk. The Apple Stores already sell third party peripherals, I see no logical reason not to offer a couple of cheap monitors in the store to those who ask for them.

[Ratm]

End of problem (except for the moniter )

http://www.clubmac.com/clubmac/

INSTANT REBATES ARE BACK!
FREE OFFERS or INSTANT SAVINGS
FREE* Keyboard and Mouse!
FREE* Wireless Basestation!
FREE* Epson Printer!
FREE* You Control Software!

[exca1ibur]

Originally posted by nath:
I still don't get what's wrong with Apple producing a budget 15 or 17" monitor. Same approach as for the Mini Mac itself. And they get to keep all the money rather than giving shelf space to a 3rd party.

Because it can be done now. Why does Apple have to do everything? This is why they are in the middle of a lawsuit with 3rd party stores now remember? Partner with these 3rd parties and offer bundles would be a win-win for both. A big 3rd party market will help a lot. Look at the iPod? They have so much third party support now thats one of the most overlooked reasons for its success.

[CRASH HARDDRIVE]

Originally posted by Ratm:
End of problem (except for the moniter )

http://www.clubmac.com/clubmac/

INSTANT REBATES ARE BACK!
FREE OFFERS or INSTANT SAVINGS
FREE* Keyboard and Mouse!
FREE* Wireless Basestation!
FREE* Epson Printer!
FREE* You Control Software!

With the free keyboard and mouse, wireless router, printer. etc, that�s a complete headless Mac system for $500- you just can�t beat it. And monitors are just a click away on Club Mac, MacMall, Warehouse, etc. Click to order the mini, and a list of monitors is already there.

Part of the �people won�t switch� argument against the mini seems to revolve around the Apple Store, but I have to wonder, what percentage of total sales are Apple Stores compared to Mac catalog suppliers, and other retail stores? The argument falls totally flat if these are the way the majority of Macs are sold. I could be wrong, but I suspect it is.

I think the mini is going to be a runaway success, and the detractors are WAY off base. The thing is an incredible bargain, and getting the needed 3rd party peripherals for it will be made easy by any place that wants to sell the things, as your example proves.

[SimeyTheLimey]

Originally posted by CRASH HARDDRIVE:
Part of the �people won�t switch� argument against the mini seems to revolve around the Apple Store, but I have to wonder, what percentage of total sales are Apple Stores compared to Mac catalog suppliers, and other retail stores? The argument falls totally flat if these are the way the majority of Macs are sold. I could be wrong, but I suspect it is.

The better question would be, how are the majority of low-priced PCs sold? That is the market you are trying to break into.

I think people wanting to compare will go to a retail store. I think Apple agrees, which is why they have invested so much in bricks and mortar stores.

You are right though, I said in my first post that I was only talking about the Apple Store. However, it wouldn't hurt to have low-priced monitors available as a pull down in the online Apple Store. When I got my powermac a couple of Mitsubishi Diamonds were there, along with the Apple displays. They seem to have taken them away, and offer nothing with the mini.

Originally posted by jbartone:
Yeah. I don't really want to buy a hub that's like, half the size of the Mac Mini itself!

Many USB keyboards have hubs built in.

[Apple Pro Underwear]

Originally posted by SimeyTheLimey:
The better question would be, how are the majority of low-priced PCs sold? That is the market you are trying to break into.

That is merely a segment of the potential markets they are looking to break into.

� minimal space users
� people with extra displays/input devices
� curious PC users
� iPod/iTunes faithful
� hardcore mac faithful
� mac users looking for cheapest kids/old parents solution
� people dedicating this whole box just for music
� design students looking for cheapest solution

and many others! combining to make this a potentially popular product.

[BasketofPuppies]

Do some of you have your heads so deep inside Steve's rear you can only think his thoughts?

While Apple has designated Windows users who want to switch to the Mac as the Mac mini's primary market, that doesn't mean those will be the only people buying them.

Off the top of my head, I can think of four additional markets that are likely to want Mac minis:

2. first-time computer buyers

3. consumers who want additional computers for their homes

4. Windows-based Web designers who want an inexpensive Mac for testing Web pages in Mac browsers

5. IT departments that want small, inexpensive computers without integrated displays requiring little setup

While #5 likely has plenty of displays available for use with Mac minis already (and isn't likely to buy at Apple Retail anyway) and #4 is willing to go to two places to get a computer and monitor, the other two likely don't have available displays are are not willing to go to two places to get their computers and monitors.

Add to this the fact unlike businesses, which generally keep displays more than three times as long as they keep computers, consumers tend to replace their computers and monitors at the same time and you'll understand why Apple Retail needs to stock inexpensive computer monitors.

[Judge_Fire]

I'd think there are also a number of people with existing peripherals, who'd like to give away the extra old machine, perhaps to relatives or donate it to charity etc.

It'd be kinda awkward to give grandma no peripherals, so those kinds of buyers would be shopping for display, keyboard and mouse, too, even if they fit the BYODKM(sp?) profile.

Apple also has a huge pool of iMac/eMac users out there, who can't really use their display with the mini. These people may well be looking for a low-cost solution for the display, too.

J

[Mastrap]

Originally posted by jbartone:
I was just thinking, if you plug in a USB keyboard and mouse, all the USB slots are gone!

That sucks.

I don't know where you plug your mice in, but mine goes into the keyboard. That's a non issue for me.

[CharlesS]

Originally posted by Mastrap:
I don't know where you plug your mice in, but mine goes into the keyboard. That's a non issue for me.

I think he was probably referring to existing Microsoft keyboards without USB ports in them that switchers may have.

Again, not a big deal - a cheap USB hub fixes this nicely. It would be nice to have more ports, though - maybe in a future revision.

[Hawkeye_a]

In my opinion, with the mini, Apple is not selling the hardware, theyre selling OSX and iLife. To me, i nthe case ofthe mini, the hardware comes second tothe software, and i think thats what switchers are going to see. it's a barebones system that can run OSX and iLife....and thats what they are going to pay for.

[Spheric Harlot]

Originally posted by BasketofPuppies:
Off the top of my head, I can think of four additional markets that are likely to want Mac minis:

2. first-time computer buyers

3. consumers who want additional computers for their homes

4. Windows-based Web designers who want an inexpensive Mac for testing Web pages in Mac browsers

5. IT departments that want small, inexpensive computers without integrated displays requiring little setup

If you actually read Apple's Mac mini page, those four groups are NOT THE ONES THE MINI IS TARGETTED AT:

Get a Mac for Less


The modular design of Mac mini lets you upgrade your current system to the elegance, simplicity and reliability of Macintosh. If you already own a monitor, keyboard and mouse, you can get up and running in minutes. Or choose any combination of new devices to meet your individual situation. And yes, Mac mini will take advantage of your two-button USB mouse with scroll-wheel and your favorite USB keyboard. Just plug them in.

Apple has a very clear-cut idea of whom they're building this box for.

Leave them be.

[Hawkeye_a]

I think it would be rather stupid for Apple to explicitly state the target audience on their website. Why do they 'care' who buys the mini as long as they buy it ? the more ppl who buy it the better. Obviously the Mac heads like us, would prefer a system such as the iMac or Powermac for a desktop.

[BasketofPuppies]

Originally posted by Spheric Harlot:
If you actually read Apple's Mac mini page, those four groups are NOT THE ONES THE MINI IS TARGETTED AT:

Apple has a very clear-cut idea of whom they're building this box for.

Leave them be.

And if you read my entire post, you would understand those are hardly the only people who will want Mac minis.

Saying the Mac mini is strictly for switchers who have available monitors is just as dumb as Apple's old "four-quadrant" strategy. It works in marketing class, but not in the real world.

Just as you cannot restrict all of your customers to four product lines, you cannot say a specific product is only for a very specific target market.

That and the fact most consumers, unlike businesses, replace their monitors when they get new computers.

[thunderous_funker]

Originally posted by BasketofPuppies:
And if you read my entire post, you would understand those are hardly the only people who will want Mac minis.

Saying the Mac mini is strictly for switchers who have available monitors is just as dumb as Apple's old "four-quadrant" strategy. It works in marketing class, but not in the real world.

Just as you cannot restrict all of your customers to four product lines, you cannot say a specific product is only for a very specific target market.

That and the fact most consumers, unlike businesses, replace their monitors when they get new computers.

I don't see how Apple is restricting anyone.

They can't possibly bundle the system to appeal to every conceivable, possible market segment so they hedge their bets on the mostly likely scenario (or at least the scenario most profitable with a lowest cost barriers).

Its marketed as BYODKM which seems clearly aimed at those who already have them. That is their most likely buyer and the one they can appeal to strongest with this product at this price point.

But anyone who wants to plunk down for a new DKM is certainly welcome to if they so desire and have their own reasons for spending arguably more for arguably less.

We're already seeing Apple's retail partners offering competitive bundles with the Mini. Expect that to continue. Whether or not Apple's retail outlets follow suit remains to be seen. Their online store certainly offers 3rd party monitors and peripherals already. I'm just not sure the retail outlets benefit from doing so. I guess we'll just have to wait and see.

[Spheric Harlot]

Originally posted by BasketofPuppies:
And if you read my entire post, you would understand those are hardly the only people who will want Mac minis.

So?

I really want an Aston Martin. Really, really do.

Do I get to blame them for stupid marketing that they don't make one that will fulfill my current needs at a price point I can and will afford?

Stupid argument.

[Spheric Harlot]

Originally posted by BasketofPuppies:
Saying the Mac mini is strictly for switchers who have available monitors is just as dumb as Apple's old "four-quadrant" strategy. It works in marketing class, but not in the real world.

That's a really odd argument to be making, as well, considering that it was that very product strategy that brought Apple back from the brink of a very real looming bankruptcy.

It wasn't until the four-quadrant strategy was an established business success (in terms of profitability if not market share) that the individual quadrants diverged into sub-models.

[thunderous_funker]

Originally posted by Spheric Harlot:
That's a really odd argument to be making, as well, considering that it was that very product strategy that brought Apple back from the brink of a very real looming bankruptcy.

It wasn't until the four-quadrant strategy was an established business success (in terms of profitability if not market share) that the individual quadrants diverged into sub-models.

If you mean the "four-quardrant strategy" as a metaphor for massive inventory restructuring, product simplification, total slashing of unnecessary R&D, complete change of the retail chain, drastic re-focusing of resources....blah blah

The Keynote slide showing the 4-way product line-up was merely symbolic of the very real and very drastic internal changes at Apple.

Make money at a few things and then risk trying to make money at many things.

The Mini plays into that precisely and might be the simple thing that marks a renewed emphasis (and subsequent future offerings) on extending Apple's market appeal.

Offer one flavor of cheap, mass market Mac (even though it won't possibly be the right flavor for everyone) and make it successful before adding additional flavors.

[BasketofPuppies]

Originally posted by Spheric Harlot:
That's a really odd argument to be making, as well, considering that it was that very product strategy that brought Apple back from the brink of a very real looming bankruptcy.

Apple's old problem was not simply having too many computer lines, it was having too many computer lines with little to differentiate between many of them.

Apple now has three consumer desktop lines, portables in many sizes and prices, a rackmount server line, and a professional desktop line.

That's as many as ten quadrants, depending on how many you divide the portables into, all with their own markets. There's crossover, yes, but making consumers think a little is a better option than forcing them into one of four categories when not one is a good fit.

Also note, despite Steve Jobs's claim no one needs a full sized tower, the lack of one has effectively ceded the high end video editing, publishing, and 3D markets to Windows and Unix.

Apple has gone too far in the opposite direction with the Mac mini. If it wants to target the system primarily at Windows users with available monitors and USB keyboards and mice, that's fine (even though I'm convinced that market exists only in Steve's mind).

But it shouldn't alienate other potential customers who want Mac minis and can afford them.

Especially when the solution is as simple as offering a few inexpensive monitors for sale at Apple Retail.

[MilkmanDan]

Originally posted by pliny:
who?

Who indeed.