[analogika]

Originally Posted by greenG4

It's just because ironknee asked for the scripture, got a reply from Kevin that didn't answer his question, and then you said "That's correct. *I'm* looking for the supporting scripture."

So I wondered.

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by analogika

It's just because ironknee asked for the scripture, got a reply from Kevin that didn't answer his question, and then you said "That's correct. *I'm* looking for the supporting scripture."

So I wondered.

Then he posted said scripture supporting what I said.

[ironknee]

Originally Posted by Kevin

Are you really interested in learning anything, or do you want to keep making condescending jr high jib jab ?

Seriously if you don't care, get lost.

It's one thing to be an atheist.

But when aren't just happy with that, you ALSO have to bash those who believe in the opposite, well that says more about you than the people you are attacking.

You are only attempting to convince yourself.

i wasn't asking for a lesson...i was asking for the bible part that said i will return within your generation...what green posted wasn't it...and the guy sounded scary...

convince myself of what?

[greenG4]

Originally Posted by ironknee

i wasn't asking for a lesson...i was asking for the bible part that said i will return within your generation...what green posted wasn't it...and the guy sounded scary...

convince myself of what?

Funny. I thought he explained it pretty well. (What you were asking about)

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by greenG4

Funny. I thought he explained it pretty well. (What you were asking about)

Obviously he didn't read it.

*shrug*

[ironknee]

Originally Posted by greenG4

Funny. I thought he explained it pretty well. (What you were asking about)

hi green...guess what? i don't have a bible to look up lol

ok what i'm looking for is when jesus said return within your generation when he was still alive...

even peter thought this would happen...

but let's just say your guy was right...israel was born in 1950 right? that's 56 years ago

so does that mean it's like any day now that he will return? although a generation is 30 years but hey who's counting...

i know some people say a generation is 100 years. that's wrong in my opinion since even now very few people ever reach 100 let alone 2k years ago

[ironknee]

Originally Posted by Kevin

Obviously he didn't read it.

*shrug*

i think green was referring to the audio guy

[greenG4]

Originally Posted by ironknee

i think green was referring to the audio guy

The "audio guy" was reading the scripture I posted. So, I was referring to both.

[greenG4]

Originally Posted by ironknee

hi green...guess what? i don't have a bible to look up lol

ok what i'm looking for is when jesus said return within your generation when he was still alive...

even peter thought this would happen...

but let's just say your guy was right...israel was born in 1950 right? that's 56 years ago

so does that mean it's like any day now that he will return? although a generation is 30 years but hey who's counting...

i know some people say a generation is 100 years. that's wrong in my opinion since even now very few people ever reach 100 let alone 2k years ago

The way I see it, it just means that there will still be people alive who saw Israel become a state again when the rapture occurs.

It's also important to note that there are two significant end times events. The rapture and the second coming. They are NOT the same. The rapture occurs before the start of the tribulation and Jesus returns (secong coming) after the seven years of tribulation.

[ironknee]

Originally Posted by greenG4

The way I see it, it just means that there will still be people alive who saw Israel become a state again when the rapture occurs.

It's also important to note that there are two significant end times events. The rapture and the second coming. They are NOT the same. The rapture occurs before the start of the tribulation and Jesus returns (secong coming) after the seven years of tribulation.

so the "deadline" for the rapture (although the word is not in the bible) is say...2050...given that some folks will live to 100...

or are we in the rapture part now? and if so, the second coming would be within a decade?

anyone want to put money on this?

[greenG4]

Originally Posted by ironknee

so the "deadline" for the rapture (although the word is not in the bible) is say...2050...given that some folks will live to 100...

or are we in the rapture part now? and if so, the second coming would be within a decade?

anyone want to put money on this?

No we are not in the rapture part now. When a billion people suddenly dissapear, that will be your first clue.

[Zeeb]

Originally Posted by greenG4

No we are not in the rapture part now. When a billion people suddenly dissapear, that will be your first clue.

Well, what's the population up to now? 8 billion? We can spare 1 billion zealots no problem. It'll be a lot more fun without them anyway.

[greenG4]

Originally Posted by Zeeb

Well, what's the population up to now? 8 billion? We can spare 1 billion zealots no problem. It'll be a lot more fun without them anyway.

The 7 years that follow the rapture will be anything but fun.

[Zeeb]

Originally Posted by greenG4

The 7 years that follow the rapture will be anything but fun.

Will there still be ice cream and movies?

[greenG4]

Originally Posted by Zeeb

Will there still be ice cream and movies?

It's really unfortunate that you don't take this even a little seriously. At least you'll have one more chance during those seven years to accept Christ.

[Robert A.M. Stephens]

Originally Posted by Monique

This is what I think of the rapture; the most ridiculous thing the Christian right has even invented.

This is utlery correct. Right to the letter. The rapture is another western joke to always take the glory away from Jesus Christ, and put it back in the lap of man. Typical. It is absurd.

True biblical, non religious Christianity is based on this:

1. It is not religious (feelings based)

2. God saves you, you respond in service, not about self (substance based)

3. One is Christ like (A true Expository Christian) in the service of others, in all ways, and let God take care of you in the process. It is not "me, me, me" based, as in new age social based Christianity. But what is and can be done for others in goodness, and telling them about JC in the process, unconditionally.

5. New age modern Christian Religion is feelings based, based on self glory, religion, the rapture silliness included, and is mainly for people afraid of the dark. Rapture takes all the glory of JC away from Him that paid for us on the cross (grace), and right at the most glorious moment whereby He takes possession what He bought on the cross, and puts that in the lap of man, whereby somehow right when things get real dicey, we all get a magic carpet ride to Jesus to have pizza and watch the world come unglued.

Nope, no where in the Bible, any version, ever, is there such a thing. But that little Anna Macdonald and her little fantasy dream, where the pre-trib rapture started in 1840 or so, sure changed things.

Too, the rapture is sooooooooooooo western. Ask the Chinese before China was open; They would ask the few westerners who were able to get inside the frontier; "How long has the tribulation been going on?

Where was their 'rapture'?

Indeed.

Robert

[Zeeb]

Originally Posted by greenG4

It's really unfortunate that you don't take this even a little seriously. At least you'll have one more chance during those seven years to accept Christ.

Christ and I already agree on almost everything. I only disagree with most of His followers who are as corrupt and debauched as I am. Since you take it seriously, do you expect to be taken up in the rapture if it happens? How do you know? What if you're stuck here with me?

[Robert A.M. Stephens]

Originally Posted by Zeeb

Christ and I already agree on almost everything. I only disagree with most of His followers who are as corrupt and debauched as I am. Since you take it seriously, do you expect to be taken up in the rapture if it happens? How do you know? What if you're stuck here with me?

Amen!

Robert

[greenG4]

Originally Posted by Zeeb

Christ and I already agree on almost everything. I only disagree with most of His followers who are as corrupt and debauched as I am. Since you take it seriously, do you expect to be taken up in the rapture if it happens? How do you know? What if you're stuck here with me?

All who believe and and have accepted Jesus Christ as theier savior and beleive he died and rose again, and is the Son of God will go in the rapture. If all that applies to you, then I'll meet you in the air....

[ironknee]

Originally Posted by greenG4

No we are not in the rapture part now. When a billion people suddenly dissapear, that will be your first clue.

green...you believe this? why just a billion?

and how do u know you won't be one of them?

[ironknee]

Originally Posted by greenG4

It's really unfortunate that you don't take this even a little seriously. At least you'll have one more chance during those seven years to accept Christ.

wanna bet? seriously....

[Robert A.M. Stephens]

Originally Posted by greenG4

All who believe and and have accepted Jesus Christ as theier savior and beleive he died and rose again, and is the Son of God will go in the rapture. If all that applies to you, then I'll meet you in the air....

Modern Christianity; what a joke.

Where in the Bible, Greek and Hebrew writing (old testament-Hebrew, new testament, Greek), does it say: we "accept" Jesus, as if their is a choice (we're dead already until saved.)

It says, in all Bible versions, but as well directly transcribed in the Greek, as the New Testament was written: it is The Lord that 'accepts" us, and we are saved by grace in spite of ourselves, not because we are good, but because He wanted us saved based on pre-destination (better re-read Ephesians 2 and 6). We respond in the feminine to our Salvation, what he bought of us in blood from the foundation of the world on the cross.

Sorry, there is no rapture. There is a post trib lifting up of the born again believers saved during the tribulation, that survive the 7 year time of great tribulation, and this at the end of the tribulation, before the Wrath occurs, but no other reference about some magic carpet ride when things get rough. Pre-tribulism is a crutch for all those religious nuts who are afraid. Very afraid.

Ref.:
Matthew 24
Luke 17-21
Mark 13

Behold such.

Robert

[ironknee]

rock on man.

[Kr0nos]

Originally Posted by greenG4

No we are not in the rapture part now. When a billion people suddenly dissapear, that will be your first clue.

Good, wake me up when that happens, because until then I'll just file this as another BS fundi scare tactic.

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by greenG4

All who believe and and have accepted Jesus Christ as theier savior and beleive he died and rose again, and is the Son of God will go in the rapture. If all that applies to you, then I'll meet you in the air....

Don't let the haters get you down.

[davesimondotcom]

Imagine a world in which people embraced the ideals of religion (to make better people) and eschewed the dogma.

Imagine if people realized these religious texts (the Bible, Qur'an, etc.) are meant as guides. Not to be taken literally. Fictional stories based on some facts, but generally just alagory meant to show us how to reach the goal of being a better person.

Oh well, doubt we'll ever see that.

Never mind, go about your bickering.

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by davesimondotcom

Imagine if people realized these religious texts (the Bible, Qur'an, etc.) are meant as guides. Not to be taken literally. Fictional stories based on some facts, but generally just alagory meant to show us how to reach the goal of being a better person.

Why should one delude and lie to themselves if they know otherwise?

[davesimondotcom]

Originally Posted by Kevin

Why should one delude and lie to themselves if they know otherwise?

No one knows for sure if ANY religion is "right." You can't KNOW.

You can have faith, but you can't know.

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by davesimondotcom

No one knows for sure if ANY religion is "right." You can't KNOW.

You can have faith, but you can't know.

Ok, If one has faith because of what they experienced in life that this is indeed true.

Why should they delude themselves to think otherwise?

I am not asking people that don't believe in the Bible to take it DEAD SERIOUS, so why should I be expected to take it less seriously?

Silly.

[davesimondotcom]

Originally Posted by Kevin

Ok, If one has faith because of what they experienced in life that this is indeed true.

Why should they delude themselves to think otherwise?

I am not asking people that don't believe in the Bible to take it DEAD SERIOUS, so why should I be expected to take it less seriously?

Silly.

Where did I say that you shouldn't take it less seriously. Just take it as a series of stories meant to teach lessons.

I just happened to have watched the South Park "scientology" episode. In it, they show a scene where they explain "what scientologists actually believe" (it says so right on the screen during.) It's a really funny scene when you don't believe that.

I mean, it's really "out there." Considering it's a story about an extraterrestrial ruler that freezes all these aliens, ships them to earth and drops them in Hawaiian volcanoes so they melt and die, only to capture their souls and brainwash them. Blah blah blah.

But how much more odd is that tale than a tale of the son of God being born to a virgin? Or a single guy building a huge boat to put a male and a female of every species on earth on board in order for them to survive 40 days and 40 nights of a rainstorm? Or a very old man climbing up a mountain to have God give him some huge stone tablets with 15, oops, no, 10 laws for man to live by?

[Kevin]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supernatural

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by davesimondotcom

Or a single guy building a huge boat

Don't let Noah's wife hear you say that. The other chicks might get the wrong idea about him and start pestering him for days out on his boat. Chicks like boats.

[Doofy]

Wait. Hang on. Chicks like boats. Chicks like going to the zoo.

Kerr-ching!

Anyone got any wood? And some nails? And some ferrets and stuff?

[ironknee]

Originally Posted by davesimondotcom

No one knows for sure if ANY religion is "right." You can't KNOW.

You can have faith, but you can't know.

he has to think he knows. otherwise his life has no meaning

[ironknee]

Originally Posted by davesimondotcom

Or a very old man climbing up a mountain to have God give him some huge stone tablets with 15, oops, no, 10 laws for man to live by?

who knows, moses probably learned how to carve words into stones before he went up there.

it would very different if the tablets were make of plastic. now that's godilicious

[Face Ache]

Originally Posted by davesimondotcom

Imagine a world in which people embraced the ideals of religion (to make better people) and eschewed the dogma.

Imagine if people realized these religious texts (the Bible, Qur'an, etc.) are meant as guides. Not to be taken literally. Fictional stories based on some facts, but generally just alagory meant to show us how to reach the goal of being a better person.

I would say you're a dreamer, but you're not the only one.

[davesimondotcom]

Originally Posted by Face Ache

I would say you're a dreamer, but you're not the only one.

Hahaha. I actually thought about that after I typed the word "imagine" for the second time.

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by ironknee

he has to think he knows. otherwise his life has no meaning

I think you project more than anyone in this forum.

I'll have to make an award JUST FOR YOU.

And as far as imagining.

I imagine a world were Athies don't care what the religious think.

That they are secure in their OWN beliefs and don't have to convinces themselves.

[ironknee]

good morning sunshine

[dialo]

Originally Posted by Kevin

Are you really interested in learning anything, or do you want to keep making condescending jr high jib jab ?

Seriously if you don't care, get lost.

I know exactly how you feel. No one ever takes my religion seriously either. Everyone treats it like one big joke.

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by dialo

I know exactly how you feel. No one ever takes my religion seriously either. Everyone treats it like one big joke.

Maybe that's because you use a Tiny URL link which is actually longer than the address it links to?

[ironknee]

Originally Posted by greenG4

The rapture and the second coming. They are NOT the same. The rapture occurs before the start of the tribulation and Jesus returns (secong coming) after the seven years of tribulation.

is it 7 continuous years? so if the war in the middle east fizzles out in the next few weeks...we would have to start over?

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by ironknee

is it 7 continuous years? so if the war in the middle east fizzles out in the next few weeks...we would have to start over?

It's nowhere near yet.

Give Moore's Law a few more years to provide the required services.

[Gossamer]

Originally Posted by Robert A.M. Stephens

Modern Christianity; what a joke.

Where in the Bible, Greek and Hebrew writing (old testament-Hebrew, new testament, Greek), does it say: we "accept" Jesus, as if their is a choice (we're dead already until saved.)

It says, in all Bible versions, but as well directly transcribed in the Greek, as the New Testament was written: it is The Lord that 'accepts" us, and we are saved by grace in spite of ourselves, not because we are good, but because He wanted us saved based on pre-destination (better re-read Ephesians 2 and 6). We respond in the feminine to our Salvation, what he bought of us in blood from the foundation of the world on the cross.

Sorry, there is no rapture. There is a post trib lifting up of the born again believers saved during the tribulation, that survive the 7 year time of great tribulation, and this at the end of the tribulation, before the Wrath occurs, but no other reference about some magic carpet ride when things get rough. Pre-tribulism is a crutch for all those religious nuts who are afraid. Very afraid.

Ref.:
Matthew 24
Luke 17-21
Mark 13

Behold such.

Robert

AFAIK even the best religious scholars haven't come to a consensus about both predestination and the 'rapture,' so if I were you, I wouldn't go around to internet forums and flaunt my Christian theology as the only true and correct one.

[Robert A.M. Stephens]

Originally Posted by Gossamer

AFAIK even the best religious scholars haven't come to a consensus about both predestination and the 'rapture,' so if I were you, I wouldn't go around to internet forums and flaunt my Christian theology as the only true and correct one.

You are in error. Please read the Biblical links provided. The orginal King James version is good in that it has the least errors and is a driect translation from the original tablets of Antioch. Hope that is helpful.

Don't vitriol. Uncalled for.

Robert

[brassplayersrock²]

for those of you not in the know.

vitriol: cruel and bitter criticism. Origin late middle english, old french, or from medieval latin vitriolum, from latin vitrum 'glass'

thank you for the new word to my vocabulary

[Gossamer]

Originally Posted by Robert A.M. Stephens

You are in error. Please read the Biblical links provided. The orginal King James version is good in that it has the least errors and is a driect translation from the original tablets of Antioch. Hope that is helpful.

Don't vitriol. Uncalled for.

Robert

So you are saying that the shelves and shelves of theology books at my house along with all of the pastors, theologians, and speakers I've heard talk are all wrong? Last I heard there wasn't a definite consensus about either of these issues. And I prefer the Greek New Testament over the NKJ.

[Zeeb]

Originally Posted by Robert A.M. Stephens

You are in error. Please read the Biblical links provided. The orginal King James version is good in that it has the least errors and is a driect translation from the original tablets of Antioch. Hope that is helpful.

Don't vitriol. Uncalled for.

Robert

A few years ago I went to an exhibit at the main branch of the New York public library. On display were several versions of the bible that existed before the King James version. There were also selected verses taken from each version and the wording has changed considerably over the years. How anyone can claim that the King James version is more or less the most "accurate" is beyond me. In addition, the books that appear in the King James version were decided on by a council of men-not God, many years ago.

[Shaddim]

Originally Posted by dialo

I know exactly how you feel. No one ever takes my religion seriously either. Everyone treats it like one big joke.

Believe what you want, doesn't bother me in the slightest. If you focus enough will into it, you can give it a degree of substance.

[Shaddim]

Originally Posted by Robert A.M. Stephens

You are in error. Please read the Biblical links provided. The orginal King James version is good in that it has the least errors and is a driect translation from the original tablets of Antioch. Hope that is helpful.

Don't vitriol. Uncalled for.

Robert

But, then you have to deal with the jumbled nightmare that is the Textus Receptus, and it's glaring inaccuracies, some of which are simple translation errors, and others which are blatant omission and fabrication.

http://www.bibletexts.com/kjv-tr.htm

"Truly major differences between the KJV and modern translations of the New Testament are primarily due to the inaccuracy of the so-called Textus Receptus [TR], the Greek text upon which the KJV's New Testament was based. According to Bruce Metzger (The Text of the New Testament: Its Transmission, Corruption, and Restoration, Third Edition, Oxford University Press, 1992, pages 95-118), the TR primarily resulted from the work of a Dutch Roman Catholic priest and Greek scholar by the name of Desiderius Erasmus, who published his first Greek New Testament text in 1516. The first edition of Erasmus' text was hastily and haphazardly prepared over the extremely short period of only five months. (ibid., page 106) That edition was based mostly upon two inferior twelfth century Greek manuscripts, which were the only manuscripts available to Erasmus "on the spur of the moment" (ibid., page 99)."

"Erasmus himself said in a letter in Latin in 1516 that this first edition had been "praecipitatum verius quam editum," -- more precipitated than edited."

and further...

"The TR was used as the basis for the KJV and all the principal Protestant translations in the languages of Europe until 1881, when the Revised Version [RV] was first published in England. The KJV translators most directly relied upon the 1598 Greek text by the Theodore de Beze of Geneva, but it also was virtually identical with Stephanus' 1550 and 1551 Greek texts, which were virtually identical with Erasmus' 1535 Greek text. Again, these all were noble efforts, but the editors of these editions did not have access to the current wealth of ancient documents and to today's more scientific knowledge of how those documents had been transmitted and partially corrupted over many centuries.

Due to the errors in the Hebrew and Greek texts from which the KJV were translated, the KJV contains some texts that are not consistent with Jesus' genuine teachings and other genuine New Testament teachings, as represented in the earliest Greek texts of the New Testament."