[Stradlater]

Neuroscientists induce OoBEs and other "paranormal" feelings merely by sending mild electrical currents to areas of the brain.

Out-of-Body Experience? Your Brain Is to Blame - New York Times

I remember countless times where Kevin's said that "THEY [scientists] DON'T KNOW" why out-of-body experiences occur, or just what is occurring. Well, now they do.

[BRussell]

Are there any mental events that occur that don't involve the brain?

[Dakar]

No surprise there. Reminds me of how they showed people seeing white light and sensing euphoria on medical tables were just suffering from a lack of oxygen to the brain (and its side-effects).

[Sky Captain]

So they can duplicate these experiences?
So the neurologists have mapped out the possible causes of paranoid delusions.

And for out of body experiences, perhaps the spirit stimulates the brain to give the body the memory of th experience. Afterall, the brain is nothing more than an bioelectrical machine.

[Dakar]

Originally Posted by Sky Captain

And for out of body experiences, perhaps the spirit stimulates the brain to give the body the memory of th experience. Afterall, the brain is nothing more than an bioelectrical machine.

Well, unless you can show that an unexplainable force seems to be affecting the brain in those situations it all comes off as BS.

[Sky Captain]

As do these experiments do not explain away anything.
Just the link between schitzophrenia and and the area of the brain that is affected.

[nonhuman]

Originally Posted by Sky Captain

As do these experiments do not explain away anything.
Just the link between schitzophrenia and and the area of the brain that is affected.

Yes they do. They prove that out of body experiences do not necessary imply some sort of supernatural phenomenon.

[Sky Captain]

Nor does it disprove it either.
Like using a telescope to prove the universe is finite.

[Uncle Skeleton]

The natural sciences can never disprove the supernatural. That is a tautology. Saying so is pointless, even if you say it again. And again. And again.

[Sky Captain]

Natural science can only observe and record the physical properties of the universe.
This is the limitation of science's tools at hand in the present.

[Uncle Skeleton]

So would you say that this finding is expanding the natural sciences to measure supernatural properties, or that supernatural properties are starting to limit themselves to the physical properties of our brains?

[Chuckit]

Originally Posted by Sky Captain

And for out of body experiences, perhaps the spirit stimulates the brain to give the body the memory of th experience. Afterall, the brain is nothing more than an bioelectrical machine.

And perhaps the rain falls because Helixpixelopterix, the Great Sleeping Turtle In The Sky, is disturbed by his dream. After all, tears are nothing but water.

Yeah, supernatural things are possible, but just because something is possible is no reason to believe it's true.

[Zeeb]

Originally Posted by Stradlater

Neuroscientists induce OoBEs and other "paranormal" feelings merely by sending mild electrical currents to areas of the brain.

Out-of-Body Experience? Your Brain Is to Blame - New York Times

I remember countless times where Kevin's said that "THEY [scientists] DON'T KNOW" why out-of-body experiences occur, or just what is occurring. Well, now they do.

I had read this story and its interesting, but it doesn't really prove anything. This whole experiment is reliant upon the subjects involved being honest about what they are experiencing. Even if they are honest, would they know what an "out-of-body-experience" feels like to compare?

[Sky Captain]

Originally Posted by Uncle Skeleton

So would you say that this finding is expanding the natural sciences to measure supernatural properties, or that supernatural properties are starting to limit themselves to the physical properties of our brains?

No, I'm saying the findings are inconclusive to the "supernatural".

[Kr0nos]

Originally Posted by BRussell

Are there any mental events that occur that don't involve the brain?

Posting in the MacNN poli lounge?

[itai195]

That'd be a rule five violation

[Dakar]

Originally Posted by Sky Captain

No, I'm saying the findings are inconclusive to the "supernatural".

Do you foresee anything they could have discovered in this study that would have interested you?

[BRussell]

Originally Posted by Kr0nos

Posting in the MacNN poli lounge?

[Millennium]

The point of the experiment, as with all scientific experiments, is to answer the question of how something happens. In this case, it was to answer the question of how these things work on a mental level. It still leaves open the question of why they occur, but that's not the type of question science seeks to answer anyway, so there's no problem as far as that goes.

Why do people keep insisting that science and spirituality conflict with one another? On their most basic levels, science deals with cosmic order while spirituality deals with cosmic purpose. Where's the conflict?

[Sky Captain]

Originally Posted by Dakar

Do you foresee anything they could have discovered in this study that would have interested you?

Yes. The understanding of how and why the brain malfunctions and causes mental illness.

And the possibility of interfacing with the brain to produce an experience that didn't exist .
Soon they may be able to wire in dreams or memories. i.e. Total Recall.

[Dakar]

Originally Posted by Sky Captain

Yes. The understanding of how and why the brain malfunctions and causes mental illness.

And the possibility of interfacing with the brain to produce an experience that didn't exist .
Soon they may be able to wire in dreams or memories. i.e. Total Recall.

Okay. I was unsure since you brought spirituality into this almost immediately.

[Sky Captain]

All too often many think it's science's job to disprove what spirituality is based on.(did I say that right?)
Yet the known matter in the universe was once a singular point then exploded. And will collapse back in on itself and explode again in a continous cycle. I believe this to be fact. Even though this violates the "free energy" rules.
Ans science has yet to prove the universe is infnite. But I still believe it is.
And there is life outside our solar system. But science has yet to provide empirical data on extraterrestrial life. But I still believe it to be true.

[Dakar]

Originally Posted by Sky Captain

All too often many think it's science's job to disprove what spirituality is based on.(did I say that right?)

I believe so. I'm sure I'm guilty of that occasionally, though not out of contempt of spirituality, but out of wishing to conclude my agnosticism.

Originally Posted by Sky Captain

Yet the known matter in the universe was once a singular point then exploded. And will collapse back in on itself and explode again in a continous cycle. I believe this to be fact. Even though this violates the "free energy" rules.

I was 100% with that too, but after the last book I read I'm down to maybe 90% sure.

Originally Posted by Sky Captain

Ans science has yet to prove the universe is infnite.

One of the greater mathematical challenges they have to deal with. It's fascinating.

[Sky Captain]

See, mathmatics are for the physical.
One can measure distances in space with it. And calculate linear time.
But math will never explain what nothing is.
Like gravity and molecular attraction. We can measure it. Define the properties and demonstrate the properties upon matter.
But it's an invisible force. A force.
And it's effects every particle of matter. and particles that are questionable as matter.(photons, electrons)
But yet it is still a part of matter.

[Dakar]

Originally Posted by Sky Captain

See, mathmatics are for the physical.
One can measure distances in space with it. And calculate linear time.
But math will never explain what nothing is.
Like gravity and molecular attraction. We can measure it. Define the properties and demonstrate the properties upon matter.
But it's an invisible force. A force.
And it's effects every particle of matter. and particles that are questionable as matter.(photons, electrons)
But yet it is still a part of matter.

Nothing is zero?

[Sky Captain]

Zero is a mathamatical placeholder for an absence of an understood object or property.


But alas, I don't think I am meant to understand it all. It's not my calling.

[Dakar]

Don't look at me, either. Math was never my strong suit.

[ebuddy]

I'm fascinated with the study because of what this offers to the future of mental wellness. Almost invariably, the experiences by these subjects was interpreted as "negative". That is, the subject felt uneasy and suspicious. (which only makes sense, if there is sensory deprivation of any kind, you would want to know something is awry.) This is notably similar to the actions of a schizophrenic. They have in fact mapped the areas of the brain that stimulate this phenomena and I believe further research can go a long way to assuage symptoms of other mental illnesses without the use of oppressive medication.

[nonhuman]

Originally Posted by Sky Captain

All too often many think it's science's job to disprove what spirituality is based on.(did I say that right?)
Yet the known matter in the universe was once a singular point then exploded. And will collapse back in on itself and explode again in a continous cycle. I believe this to be fact. Even though this violates the "free energy" rules.
Ans science has yet to prove the universe is infnite. But I still believe it is.
And there is life outside our solar system. But science has yet to provide empirical data on extraterrestrial life. But I still believe it to be true.

The purpose of science is to help us to understand the way the universe works. This is also the purpose of religion and theories of the 'supernatural'. The difference is that science not a self-contained system of beliefs that claim to be exhaustive. Science doesn't even exist in that sense, it's merely an aspect of human understanding.

The existence of the supernatural will never be scientifically disproved, that's impossible. The most that will ever happen is that we will find a scientific explanation for ever phenomenon that has previously been ascribed to the supernatural. This particular study is one example of that. It has not been, and can not be, proven that out of body experiences are never caused by the divine or some other supernatural phenomenon. All that has been proven is that no such supernatural phenomenon is necessary for there to be out of body experiences.

The same is true of your extra-solar life example. Extra-solar life may or may not exist, and, like you, I believe it does, but science is, at this point, irrelevant to that question. No data exists, and therefore science can't help us. At some point, we may discover extra-solar life, at which point it will become scientific fact that it exists. But even if we never find it, it will never be proved that extra-solar life does not exist, merely that we lack the technology to find and recognize it.

[ebuddy]

When I saw this article posted in the PWL, I thought it was going to be;

Out-of-Body Experience? Bush is to blame.

[nonhuman]

Originally Posted by ebuddy

When I saw this article posted in the PWL, I thought it was going to be;

Out-of-Body Experience? Bush is to blame.

He's doing it with the secret electrodes that the CIA implanted in all our brains while we were sleeping.