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RydDragyn
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Jan 26, 2004, 04:44 AM
 
Okay, I have been a longtime reader of Resexcellence, but some of the items in their theme archive sicken me, and I wonder if Scott Shitwood is colorblind.

http://www.resexcellence.com/themes/



I mean c'mon, that first one isn't even a theme - it's a cannibalization of various themes.

( Last edited by RydDragyn; Jan 26, 2004 at 07:56 AM. )
     
timdorr
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Jan 26, 2004, 04:58 AM
 
What in god's name happened there?
140x40? 4 lines of text? o_O?
Man, those are some strict sig guidelines.
     
Patcarla
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Jan 26, 2004, 05:06 AM
 

I can't believe that..Does max know about that?
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Frisbee
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Jan 26, 2004, 06:25 AM
 
There really should be a disgusted face on MacNN....
     
brutal
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Jan 26, 2004, 07:56 AM
 
ewww! that's horrible!

     
MacDog
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Jan 26, 2004, 08:49 AM
 
Don't blame ResEx... they're just bringin it to the masses. Blame the sorry bastard that created that "art"
     
sushiism
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Jan 26, 2004, 10:40 AM
 
http://www.resexcellence.com/themes/...co_lime_pr.jpg
that one wouldnt be bad if they redid all the aqua controls
     
Slayer-X
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Jan 26, 2004, 10:54 AM
 
Oh great! Now we have lamers stealing themes and claiming the work as their own so next to losing MixthePix we can start losing our great themers. I really hate dishonesty and laziness.
     
swiz
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Jan 26, 2004, 11:16 AM
 
[been building up for a long time RANT]
I couldnt agree more. Ive been saying this for a long time now. The common defense of these themes is "but its hard to do a complete theme, it takes so much time... blah blah blah . You know what, if you dont have the time or staying power to stick with working on a theme until it is a complete, cohesive unit, dont freaking start on it. These bastard Aqua hybrids make me think of a child which was brought into the world by a brother and sister "getting together". They're just Aqua-retarded. Sorry if that offends anyone but it truly is a fitting analogy, Im not trying to be facetious.
[/been building up for a long time RANT]

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jessejlt
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Jan 26, 2004, 01:41 PM
 
Originally posted by swiz:
[been building up for a long time RANT]
I couldnt agree more. Ive been saying this for a long time now. The common defense of these themes is "but its hard to do a complete theme, it takes so much time... blah blah blah . You know what, if you dont have the time or staying power to stick with working on a theme until it is a complete, cohesive unit, dont freaking start on it. These bastard Aqua hybrids make me think of a child which was brought into the world by a brother and sister "getting together". They're just Aqua-retarded. Sorry if that offends anyone but it truly is a fitting analogy, Im not trying to be facetious.
[/been building up for a long time RANT]
That sounds quit arrogant, swiz. If someone wants to make a theme than who are you to say that they shouldn't just because it doesn't live up to your standards or your idea of a "complete" theme? None of you themers are doing anything "new" or groundbreaking. You're "painting" an existing metaphor that has been around since Xerox. If someone wants to customize their experience, I say go for it! To hell with someone else's standards or ideas of excellence or acceptable practices.
jesse ;-)
     
NetworkShadow
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Jan 26, 2004, 01:51 PM
 
Those really are some of the worst themes I have seen since the bad k-schemes. Granted you do have to start somewhere, but really...
click one
     
Slayer-X
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Jan 26, 2004, 01:51 PM
 
Originally posted by swiz:
[been building up for a long time RANT]
I couldnt agree more. Ive been saying this for a long time now. The common defense of these themes is "but its hard to do a complete theme, it takes so much time... blah blah blah . You know what, if you dont have the time or staying power to stick with working on a theme until it is a complete, cohesive unit, dont freaking start on it. These bastard Aqua hybrids make me think of a child which was brought into the world by a brother and sister "getting together". They're just Aqua-retarded. Sorry if that offends anyone but it truly is a fitting analogy, Im not trying to be facetious.
[/been building up for a long time RANT]
Props for the analogy of incestual retard babies = bad Aqua Hacks. LOL. I agree, half-assed themes suck. Either change things so that they're different or leave it alone. Sure Max has his smoothstripes and Aqua Extreme but he doesn't claim them to be anything more than an Aqua modification. Same for my Aqua color variants. But to claim you have a totally new theme when half of it is still Aqua is so lame.
     
olorin15
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Jan 26, 2004, 02:06 PM
 
Originally posted by jessejlt:
That sounds quit arrogant, swiz. If someone wants to make a theme than who are you to say that they shouldn't just because it doesn't live up to your standards or your idea of a "complete" theme? None of you themers are doing anything "new" or groundbreaking. You're "painting" an existing metaphor that has been around since Xerox. If someone wants to customize their experience, I say go for it! To hell with someone else's standards or ideas of excellence or acceptable practices.
jesse ;-)
Swiz is somewhat right. I think if you want to start, but are not able to finish a complete new theme, you can still go for it, but keep it to yourself - do not release it to the public ... It's disrespectful to people who's work you used and left in places (including Apple's Aqua).
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RampantResEx
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Jan 26, 2004, 02:07 PM
 
First, out of respect for Max, Flower Power has been pulled from ResEx - if there is any chance of copyright infringement against Max or any other theme developer I stand on the side of protecting their interests and won't hesitate to pull something from the archive.

For the other theme that was posted earlier (Curaco Lime) I'll defend that one from my own little angle of interest - I will not make ResEx a closed society that will only post themes that fit my (or anyone else's) standard of what a theme should or should not look like. To be judge, jury and excutioner is too much power for anyone - I won't compromise my integrity or rob the community of a new developing talent.

I agree with Swiz on making a theme complete and whole on it's own - when the time comes and I'm ready to take a shot at creating a theme I can only hope to approach it with the same degree of completeness that Swiz, Max and the other top themers do.

Shitwood? I haven't heard that since gradeschool

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NetworkShadow
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Jan 26, 2004, 02:08 PM
 
An "Aqua MODs" section would be an ok idea, it's kinda kinda degrading to see them mixed in with the good themes like that...
click one
     
Tulkas
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Jan 26, 2004, 04:09 PM
 
If it counts we (www.xthemes.net) are not going to post any aqua mods or half-done themes.

Those cows won't know what hit 'em. They won't know what hit them even after it hits them, because they're cows.
     
swiz
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Jan 26, 2004, 04:10 PM
 
Originally posted by jessejlt:
That sounds quit arrogant, swiz. If someone wants to make a theme than who are you to say that they shouldn't just because it doesn't live up to your standards or your idea of a "complete" theme? None of you themers are doing anything "new" or groundbreaking. You're "painting" an existing metaphor that has been around since Xerox. If someone wants to customize their experience, I say go for it! To hell with someone else's standards or ideas of excellence or acceptable practices.
jesse ;-)
I dont think it sounds arrogant at all. It appears that my opinion is widely shared judging from this thread. It is my belief that the Mac platform's representation, being a creatively dominated platform is cheapened by these types of releases.

I agree with you that they shouldnt not release it just because of mine or anyone else's expectations or subjective opinions. But at the same time, I hope that these types of releases (incomplete/stolen elements) are realized for what they are and quickly publicly ignored.

There is a standard for OSX themes which is raising with each SS update and this kind of release is only lowering the average for OSX as a whole.

Ok so maybe this whole explanation does sound a little holier-than-thou and if you want to label me in such a way, thats cool with me. I just refuse to look into these as being anything more than what they are.
Inconsistent. Incomplete.
(And that is not a subjective opinion, but a fact.)

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swiz
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Jan 26, 2004, 04:11 PM
 
Originally posted by Tulkas:
If it counts we (www.xthemes.net) are not going to post any aqua mods or half-done themes.
To me that DEFINITELY counts.
Some call it arrogance, I call it integrity.

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jessejlt
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Jan 26, 2004, 04:39 PM
 
Originally posted by Tulkas:
If it counts we (www.xthemes.net) are not going to post any aqua mods or half-done themes.
Touching on what the guy from Res said earlier...
I think this attitude says not that you are going to "protect" the work of others, but instead that you are going to reject the work of others solely based on your definition of "half-done" or "aqua mod." Being that it is your site, who am I to discourage that. However, I would say that boasting such as a plea for notoriety or some sort of justification is... well odd ( extreme? ). All of the themes released are aqua-mods. You may not think so, but that is an absolute fact. Aqua is not defined by the default color schema that ships with OS X, but instead by the GUI, which holds a vast definition. To say that painting Aqua somehow removes or otherwise *change* Aqua is both narrow-minded and somewhat simple. Either way it's aloof.

I'm genuinely astonished by the attitude of both swiz and the others that have replied in support to this thread. First of all, it is a fact to say that nobody to date has created a new metaphor to what Xerox introduced not-so-many years ago. Indeed, one could argue that the metaphor itself has simply been themed, though I would like to go a bit further and say that it has in fact been improved upon in many ways, but *not* changed.

If I am interpreting the original rant correctly, than the poster is all riled-up about someone modifying one of Max's themes and then releasing it to the public. My response to this would be that Max releases his work to the public without a license, so from a purely legal point of view these "modders" are doing nothing wrong. Furthermore, I highly doubt that Max or any other themers have Apple's consent to modify or otherwise change the recourses of their OS and then release such packaged resources to the public, but I could be wrong there. Now, from a moral point of view, I can see this in two separate lights:

1. Someone has used another's work as a canvas and then painted their expression onto it. Personally, I'm not creative artistically, but I sure do appreciate art and have great admiration for those that can produce it. Now, if I were an artist and someone enjoyed my work so much that it inspired them so much that it made them want to express themselves through it, well I would be absolutely tickled. Now, if someone *bought* a painting of mine, modified it, and then *sold* it, that would be a different story, and my "tickle" would quickly turn into a "lawsuit."

2. These people are so lazy and void of talent that they are incapable of producing original work of their own. Indeed, they take my hard good work, make horrible untalented modifications to it, and then release it as some sick love child.

Personally, I guess the answer lies somewhere in the middle of 1 and 2, though I take the position of the former rather than the latter.

I guess elitists just leave a sourer taste in my mouth...
jesse ;-)
     
bOOzo
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Jan 26, 2004, 05:05 PM
 
Originally posted by RampantResEx:
First, out of respect for Max, Flower Power has been pulled from ResEx - if there is any chance of copyright infringement against Max or any other theme developer I stand on the side of protecting their interests and won't hesitate to pull something from the archive.
[snip]
Scott Chitwood
Thanks Scott, I appreciate it. I was going to ask you too pull it, glad I didn't have to.
This theme should have been posted on my User Modded Forums page, because it do contain a lot of my work.
     
phillryu
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Jan 26, 2004, 05:38 PM
 
I agree that the theme that used Max's elements should have been pulled, and was a pretty big mistake on Resex's part... but those "half assed" half aqua bastard child themes, imo, have a place SOMEWHERE. Let ResEx host them if they want, I have nothing against it. (Though I tend to only review complete themes for macthemes.net... just because even a complete theme without extras would automatically receive a much lower score.)

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quandarry
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Jan 26, 2004, 06:25 PM
 
Originally posted by Tulkas:
If it counts we (www.xthemes.net) are not going to post any aqua mods or half-done themes.
you already have aqua mods...i just checked.
if you have one you must have all...or you are playing favoritism.
     
chezpaul
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Jan 26, 2004, 06:38 PM
 
Originally posted by phillryu:
I agree that the theme that used Max's elements should have been pulled, and was a pretty big mistake on Resex's part...
Mistake ???!!! Not everyone follows and knows by heart Max's work. Maybe Scott didn't know it. Then again I wasn't fast enough to check out the theme.

I'm also all for you themers out there but come one... U say a half ass change here and there and release under ones name is not a good thing.. Well then something like Aqua Extreme would fall under your definition of not worthy theme, right ?

I'll tell U another thing. None of the reknown artists from the past (Van Gogh etc...) were appreciated in their lifes. So who knows what is beautiful art or not.
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quandarry
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Jan 26, 2004, 06:40 PM
 
i didn't get a chance to see the flower power one but if it's the one i'm thinking of i doubt it was submitted by the person who did it. it was meant as an example of what could be done with the menu bar and menu background and was damn hard to find and download. it was on a japanese website.
     
quandarry
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Jan 26, 2004, 06:50 PM
 
Originally posted by RampantResEx:
For the other theme that was posted earlier (Curaco Lime) I'll defend that one from my own little angle of interest - I will not make ResEx a closed society that will only post themes that fit my (or anyone else's) standard of what a theme should or should not look like. To be judge, jury and excutioner is too much power for anyone - I won't compromise my integrity or rob the community of a new developing talent.

Scott Chitwood
damn straight!

i'll defend any ugly theme, they have just as much rights as any handsome one...and ugly ducklings can grow to be handsome swans.
     
quandarry
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Jan 26, 2004, 07:02 PM
 
Originally posted by phillryu:
(Though I tend to only review complete themes for macthemes.net... just because even a complete theme without extras would automatically receive a much lower score.)
i doubt if anyone bases there use of a theme of what you say or what anyone else says or really cares.

thank god for resex. they don't review or discriminate they just present and do a good job.
     
swiz
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Jan 26, 2004, 07:27 PM
 
Originally posted by jessejlt:
To say that painting Aqua somehow removes or otherwise *change* Aqua is both narrow-minded and somewhat simple. Either way it's aloof.

jesse ;-)
Until we have the robust tools to actually alter the way our OSX interface elements behave and where they appear within the GUI, saying this is absolutely valid. When that day does come, when we can do those things; then these statements will be simple and narrow-minded. For the time being, given our current options for "themeing", it is totally appropriate even if it is rather disapointing.

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I'mDaMac
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Jan 26, 2004, 09:13 PM
 
Originally posted by swiz:
I hope that these types of releases (incomplete/stolen elements) are realized for what they are and quickly publicly ignored.
Unfortunately that is not always the case. I recently had someone on deviantart (Stefanka - Panther Snow) rip off my widgets from the PantherMetal preview I pre-maturely posted a while ago. I posted a jpeg showing him that they were the EXACT same pixels and all the while he denied it. Incredulous! Most people don't care if resources are ripped from someone else; they just want the theme now - no matter the cost. Quite a few, it seems, don't believe it is wrong to publicly distribute hacked themes since the parts which were taken were distributed freely to begin with.

Swiz, I don't know how you are able to turn a blind eye to the porting of your themes. It still ticks me off a bit, but I guess in the end there is nothing that can be done about it in this faceless community called the internet.
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I'mDaMac
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Jan 26, 2004, 09:14 PM
 
Originally posted by quandarry:
damn straight!

i'll defend any ugly theme, they have just as much rights as any handsome one...and ugly ducklings can grow to be handsome swans.
LOL! quandarry you still at it, eh?
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olorin15
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Jan 26, 2004, 09:46 PM
 
Originally posted by I'mDaMac:
LOL! quandarry you still at it, eh?
One again quandarry - the knight in shining armour - comes to resque ... I'm amazed at the guy's passion for fighting in the forums. But really quandarry, some things just shouldn't be defended.
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mrtew
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Jan 27, 2004, 12:03 AM
 
Originally posted by olorin15:
One again quandarry - the knight in shining armour - comes to resque ... I'm amazed at the guy's passion for fighting in the forums. But really quandarry, some things just shouldn't be defended.

He was just defending people's right to post ugly themes. And every theme has been described as ugly by someone. You guys really are snobs. By all means call a theme ugly if that's what you think, but to say the site has no honor or integrity because they post stuff you don't like is a little much. People used to call my theme ugly almost universally, and that inspired me to make it better, but it ResEx had refused to post it because it had bad widgets or aqua elements (or ones stolen from Max) then I'd be the only person using it today. I wish all themes were brilliant too, but if we all had to agree they were good for them to be posted, there wouldn't be ANY themes on ResEx!

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Patcarla
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Jan 27, 2004, 05:59 AM
 
Originally posted by olorin15:
One again quandarry - the knight in shining armour - comes to resque ... I'm amazed at the guy's passion for fighting in the forums. But really quandarry, some things just shouldn't be defended.
That's why I like him. Always fun to read his posts
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d4nth3m4n
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Jan 27, 2004, 10:15 AM
 
resX does a wonderful job of hosting- for FREE. as many of you know, this is not a light undertaking. if that means you have to weed through a couplea sh!tty themes to get to things that might not have otherwise hit the theme scene, then i can live with that. if you want to get caught up in nomenclature, then yes, indeed they are aqua mods, but it doenst take that long to sort through all the themes on resX. and who knows, there might be something on there that is truly awesome, though poorly implemented, and one of you gui bigshots could save the day, and make the best theme evar! like even more better than ?. just remember, titanium is a product of resX, and i think that is one of the most complete and diligent themes out there.

VIVA LA RESX!

and if youre worried about the label "themer" being shat on by crappy themes, get over it, let your work speak for itself. hippies.

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Jan 27, 2004, 11:01 AM
 
Originally posted by mrtew:
He was just defending people's right to post ugly themes. And every theme has been described as ugly by someone. You guys really are snobs. By all means call a theme ugly if that's what you think, but to say the site has no honor or integrity because they post stuff you don't like is a little much. People used to call my theme ugly almost universally, and that inspired me to make it better, but it ResEx had refused to post it because it had bad widgets or aqua elements (or ones stolen from Max) then I'd be the only person using it today. I wish all themes were brilliant too, but if we all had to agree they were good for them to be posted, there wouldn't be ANY themes on ResEx!

here here


everyone starts out somewhere, restricting creativity (yes, even people recolouring aqua and finding new colour schemes is creative in it's own way) imo, is a very **** thing thing to do.

If you don't want to use it fine, but to rant on here of all places about themes not appealing and slagging off ResEx is quite petty.

Maybe you should turn off the computer and go outside more if you are going to get that bothered by something on the internet.
     
JoE950
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Jan 27, 2004, 01:19 PM
 
personally i'm grateful to any theme that will make mine look better..

however its appalling that someone would take a dive like that and post something that is completely incomplete (they are just changing the title bar and background textures.. i mean id really like to hear from someone that uses that..).

as an artist i could never submit an incomplete work.. which leads me to believe these aren't incomplete as far as the author sees them. i believe they are finished with them. why would you post a theme you intend to improve in the future? i could release the work ive done on [f]p right now for panther, but its just not ready.

max's aqua modifications are just that, and they don't appear to be anything else. thats why people accept them and enjoy his "fixes" to aqua. and in all honesty, id rather see him use his time on original art.. his ideas are amazing.

these are clearly just themes that are meant to change a little here and there because the author doesn't have time or desire to anything else.. i suppose this is all well and good, but this stuff is just as unusable as dark themes which nobody has a problem with critiquing. but when we critique the usefulness of an incomplete theme (and yes they are incomplete) its human bashing and all kinds of foul play and that.

simply put, if you have a good idea for a theme, and don't have the time to pull it off (like the wood theme, that would have been a kick ass theme if a bit more time and planning went into it) then contact GuiStain and see if we can help. otherwise put out the unfinished theme and leave it open to noses going up in the air in disgust. this is how the world works, if they for some reason stopped putting tires on cars and told you, you had to add them yourself, you'd probably be pretty pissed. this of course isn't on that level of importance, but human nature is the same in any field. we want a finished product, its that simple.

you can argue that themes aren't complete in general since they don't offer any innovation, but thats not what they are meant for at this point. they are simply there to make aqua look different, and unspoken rules and expectations have been formed.

i don't think it would be negative for xthemes (if they so wished) to make a simple rule that states that themes must be complete or they will be tucked away in an aqua mod section after a user vote or some sreening system.

but as it stands now, people are justifying releasing this stuff, and a lot of potentially good themes are being produced half assed and thats only going to limit the amount of usable themes even further. thanks again for making my theme look slightly better than a walrus in spandex.
     
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Jan 27, 2004, 02:58 PM
 
I just want to clarify that I dont have any illwill or feelings toward ResEx, I chatted Mike coyle regularly and Scott is a good guy too. My only stance is one against those [opinion]crappy[/opinion] themes. ResEx is a great site and I dont expect them to filter their submissions. I just wish the authors would do that.

Take it easy, I am.

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sbjordal
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Jan 27, 2004, 05:03 PM
 
Originally posted by RydDragyn:
Okay, I have been a longtime reader of Resexcellence, but some of the items in their theme archive sicken me, and I wonder if Scott Shitwood is colorblind.

http://www.resexcellence.com/themes/



I mean c'mon, that first one isn't even a theme - it's a cannibalization of various themes.

Does anyone have a mirror of the picture somewhere? Curious what it looked like, but can't see it since it's pulled....
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Jan 27, 2004, 06:45 PM
 
Originally posted by sushiism:
http://www.resexcellence.com/themes/...co_lime_pr.jpg
that one wouldnt be bad if they redid all the aqua controls
I must admit that I think that's a really neat looking theme.
     
olorin15
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Jan 27, 2004, 07:00 PM
 
Originally posted by Jim Paradise:
I must admit that I think that's a really neat looking theme.
I like where it's heading ... but it's not quite there yet. Need to wipe out the rest of Aqua.
Dopeler effect: The tendency of stupid ideas to seem smarter when they
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quandarry
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Jan 28, 2004, 08:35 AM
 
Originally posted by Tulkas:
If it counts we (www.xthemes.net) are not going to post any aqua mods or half-done themes.
BULLSHIP

     
JoE950
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Jan 28, 2004, 10:22 AM
 
Originally posted by quandarry:
BULLSHIP

no quandarry, XThemes didn't post that, max did.. so he's right.
     
Tarambana
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Jan 28, 2004, 10:31 AM
 
BTW, Quandarry, I think it is very unfortunate to compare Max's Theme with some of those aqua mods as, in my opinion, his work is far better. I think what Max has done is what Aqua should have been at first. I think of it more as a "fix" for Apple mistakes, rather than a mere mod.
     
quandarry
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Jan 28, 2004, 10:48 PM
 
Originally posted by JoE950:
no quandarry, XThemes didn't post that, max did.. so he's right.
?
     
quandarry
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Jan 28, 2004, 11:02 PM
 
Originally posted by Tarambana:
BTW, Quandarry, I think it is very unfortunate to compare Max's Theme with some of those aqua mods as, in my opinion, his work is far better. I think what Max has done is what Aqua should have been at first. I think of it more as a "fix" for Apple mistakes, rather than a mere mod.
ok i see...max is a nice guy, we all love him, he's cool, he never biatches...soooo we'll put him above all others...

a mod is a mod is a mod!

place stick guy here---->



ps: before some silly person reads the wrong thing into this and sees this as an attack on max think again...his mods are great...people love them...i love them...
     
olorin15
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Jan 29, 2004, 03:09 AM
 
I think there's a fundamental difference between a theme that tries to be original, but leaves a lot of Aqua elements in it b/c the themer was a bit lazy (which is perfectly understandable btw) and Max's Aqua "fixes". Smooth Stripes or AA do not pretend to be original themes, and as such they are accepted by the community. And neither of them looks unfinished or rough. Now if you slap a few of your own elements on top of Aqua and present that as a new theme, be ready for all sorts of criticism ... sorry, but that's how things are. I'm not saying your should never do that - I'm saying hold on to your theme till you've removed traces of Aqua, and then release it.
Dopeler effect: The tendency of stupid ideas to seem smarter when they
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quandarry
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Jan 29, 2004, 04:15 AM
 
Originally posted by olorin15:
I think there's a fundamental difference between a theme that tries to be original, but leaves a lot of Aqua elements in it b/c the themer was a bit lazy (which is perfectly understandable btw) and Max's Aqua "fixes". Smooth Stripes or AA do not pretend to be original themes, and as such they are accepted by the community. And neither of them looks unfinished or rough. Now if you slap a few of your own elements on top of Aqua and present that as a new theme, be ready for all sorts of criticism ... sorry, but that's how things are. I'm not saying your should never do that - I'm saying hold on to your theme till you've removed traces of Aqua, and then release it.
well i was thinking aqua mods were mainly themes 'fixing aqua' also hue and color shifting of backgrounds or widgets...all of which i think is cool cuz not everyone is into blue but is happy with everything else.

but i do think leaving the widgets blue on a wood theme may upset some people. no one seemed to mind aqua widgets on a brushed metal theme (yes i know apple does it too)... i'm sure no one is forced to download a theme they didn't like.

an author may decide to release an unfinished theme as work in progress to get some feedback...many of the themes that are very original now started as half assed mods of aqua.

well in the end nothing really matters...if you find a theme you like or make a theme of your own to use...in the end does it really matter what else is out there.

nothing is perfect...

<edit> me sees the windows 98 theme and everything i just said blows over evryones head...oh well.




OffTopic: how do you get a pattern to tile on your desktop?...damned if i can figure it out.
( Last edited by quandarry; Jan 29, 2004 at 04:34 AM. )
     
Patcarla
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Jan 29, 2004, 02:06 PM
 
OffTopic: how do you get a pattern to tile on your desktop?...damned if i can figure it out. [/B]
? Did you try system pref/ desktop screen saver/ pop up menu--> tile?
Powerbook 1.67ghz 15" (100GB HD, 128MB VRAM, 1.5GB RAM)
     
   
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