[Keifer]

ok, I've coded a few simple widgets for konfabulator before, but this would be my first attempt at doing something that isn't javascript and xml. What I want to do is to make a highly skinable frontend program for iTunes.

(for more background on what it would do, see pretty much all of this thread. I'd post a summary, but there's alot to cover, and I don't want to forget any of it. http://forums.macnn.com/showthread.php?threadid=207255 )

My main questions are these: How much trouble am I getting myself into? I'm guessing that this is a pretty big undertaking for a first timer.

And was I correct on that I should code it in apple script so that it can interface with iTunes easyer? Comments and suggestions on what I need to code it in are very helpful- I still have to figure out what lanauge I need to learn.

And my lastest question for now- would it be a good idea to try and get multiple people involved in this, and host it on sf.net? The main problem I see with this is that I'd be lagging alot behind others as far as coding knowage is concerend.

I may be mainly a graphics weenie, but I'm a graphics weenie on a mission dangit.

-keifer

[Arclite]

As far as I know, Applescript is the only way to control iTunes. It doesn't seem like too big a project, except for the skinning, so you should be fine if you know some Applescript already.

[Chuckit]

Originally posted by Arclite:
As far as I know, Applescript is the only way to control iTunes.

Well, technically Apple Events. You don't have to go through AppleScript if you don't want to, but that is the only interface to Apple Events that most people know. You can look at iTunes' AppleScript dictionary with Script Editor if you want to get an idea what you need to do.

I'm not sure why you want to develop a front-end to iTunes, though. Doesn't it already have a front end?

[Keifer]

I'm doing it because it would be a good way to learn to code (up til now, all I've done is widgets for K.) Plus the fact that the frontend for iTunes that apple developed rather confines people as to what they can do with the skins they want to make. i.e. they all HAVE to have the buttons in the same place etc. What I'm doing is baiscaly designing a frontend for itunes that has the skining capasity of adution.

[JNI]

Funny, I did the same thing. I was looking for a learning project for AppleScript Studio. I wanted something that was more than just a useless set of buttons and handlers. I created an app that does just about everything that can be scripted in iTunes. At first it seemed silly, and pretty much just did what iTunes already did. But over time I refined the UI to create a small window about the size of the small view of iTunes, but added a few extra buttons like being able to see/set the rating of the current song, setting the repeat mode, a button to add the current song to a favorites playlist, and added a widget for adding grouping values that help in sorting. I think it was all worth it. I learned a lot about Studio app development in the process. And I now have a customized UI to iTunes that gives me fast accesss to the things I do most often.

[Keifer]

Originally posted by JNI:
Funny, I did the same thing. I was looking for a learning project for AppleScript Studio. I wanted something that was more than just a useless set of buttons and handlers. I created an app that does just about everything that can be scripted in iTunes. At first it seemed silly, and pretty much just did what iTunes already did. But over time I refined the UI to create a small window about the size of the small view of iTunes, but added a few extra buttons like being able to see/set the rating of the current song, setting the repeat mode, a button to add the current song to a favorites playlist, and added a widget for adding grouping values that help in sorting. I think it was all worth it. I learned a lot about Studio app development in the process. And I now have a customized UI to iTunes that gives me fast accesss to the things I do most often.

Where did you get documentation on using AppleScript? I've looked everywhere I could think of, I've even asked on a few fourms, but so far nada. Everything I can find seems to need you to have a basic knowlage of applescript to begin with.

[JNI]

Originally posted by Keifer:
Where did you get documentation on using AppleScript? I've looked everywhere I could think of, I've even asked on a few fourms, but so far nada. Everything I can find seems to need you to have a basic knowlage of applescript to begin with.

Hmmm. There are tons of places to find AS info. Of course the definitive site is Apple's developer pages. The top level is here:
http://www.apple.com/applescript/developers/

Yeah, most of it assumes some AS knowledge, or at least some experience in programming in other languages. But there are still plenty of basics out there, you just have to dig a little until you find ones that 'talk to you'.

I think Apple could do a better job of developing a structured tutorial series to bring in beginners. AS is not really that hard, at least to do some basic process flow automation for just about all users. For someone that has never programmed at all before, they need to be stepped through basic programming concepts and terminology like variables, properties, handlers, control flow etc. That can be very difficult to bootstrap, since if you don't even know how a computer works (memory, program execution, file systems etc.) just about any programming tutorial can be hard at first. Some people just have a better natural ability to grasp abstract and logical concepts than others. I personally think that anyone can learn to do it, but I've found that some people I've tried to teach have the hardest time thinking in any kind of strict programmatic model. But with lots of personal attention, eventually they work to a point of understanding enough to get a foundation for building upon.

The AppleScript developer reference material is mostly rooted at:
http://developer.apple.com/documentation/AppleScript/

I found this site which is quite outdated as it was written for OS 9, but it does describe AS from pretty much an absolute beginners point. Much of it looks still relevant, but there will be a need to recognize where things will be slightly different for OS X (assuming that is where you want to develop.)
http://www.acm.uiuc.edu/macwarriors/...cript/intro99/

Here's another online tutorial that looks like it starts from the basics. It is OS X savvy:
http://www.tandb.com.au/applescript/tutorial/

(I just googled for "AppleScript tutorials" to find these.)

There are also a number of beginner AS books available, and I believe a number of them have been updated for OS X. A search on Amazon (or your book reseller of choice) should find you a bunch of choices.

I personally learned AS way back when. AS actually has it's roots in HyperTalk, the scripting language of HyperCard. So I did a lot of HC programming first, then followed along as it spawned AppleScript. I then began to learn other languages like Pascal, C, Java, etc., and they each helped to develop a broader understanding of broader programming concepts. Programming with AppleScript Studio is a combination knowing raw AppleScript (i.e. as done with the Script Editor) along with other more general programming concepts, like project based development, UI development (especially with Interface Builder.), debugging and such.

I think that learning AS is like anything else - each person's approach will be different. Some like books, some take classes. some have friends that they can ask. I found that once I got a grasp of the basic concepts I learned the most by looking at example code. Then once I had a specific task I wanted to accomplish, I asked specific questions as they came up. Even after almost 15 years of working with AS, I still have questions that I have to post to boards like this. There are always new things to learn.