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Buck_Naked
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Mar 7, 2001, 02:28 PM
 
What would be involved in using OSX to host my small website?
I'm on a DSL connection with my upload speed topping out at about 100kbs.
Will this work? My computers are behind a NETGEAR RT314 Gateway Router.
My Beta copy configured itself perfectly when I installed it on my G4.
I hope this makes sense......I have been awake for too long with too litle sleep.
     
Earth Mk. II
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Mar 7, 2001, 02:48 PM
 
Well, for a small website, I think Apple made it easy for you... all you have to do is turn on Webserver services from the Internet panel, then replace the contents of /Library/WebServer/Documents/ with your site's documents. I'm not sure how secure Apple's default Apache config is, but I would guess it's good. any other input from out there?

------------------
"Wherever you go, there
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mitchell_pgh
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Mar 7, 2001, 02:53 PM
 
It would make a fine web server (much better then OS 9 scalability wise) It is also going to be great for "next step-ers" as eventually they would want to start using MySQL or CGI or Pearl. Remember, 75+ of the web runs off of Unix, and now we are Unix...
     
even easier
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Mar 7, 2001, 02:54 PM
 
just place your content in the "Sites" folder

then enable web sharing in the control panel


apache can be configged very easy from the apche.config file

     
interactive_civilian
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Mar 7, 2001, 09:34 PM
 
Originally posted by Earth Mk. II:
Well, for a small website, I think Apple made it easy for you... all you have to do is turn on Webserver services from the Internet panel, then replace the contents of /Library/WebServer/Documents/ with your site's documents. I'm not sure how secure Apple's default Apache config is, but I would guess it's good. any other input from out there?

IIRC, the default config of Apache in the OS X PB was quite secure. I went through the security guidelines at Apache.org, and I only had to change one or two things in the config files (and they weren't really security problems at the moment...they had the potential to be depending on how I used various scripts and stuff). So, all in all, the OS X Apache server is quite secure. If you are really worried about security then follow Apache's guidelines, but don't be surprised if you don't find yourself changing much if anything at all.

Cheers.
     
[email protected]
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Mar 7, 2001, 09:38 PM
 
What about the dsl/router issue. If you have a router that does network address translation from an internal ip scheme can you still point a web sight at your public ip address?
     
Raman
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Mar 7, 2001, 09:55 PM
 
Here's how to do it (at least from Public Beta) [keep in mind i am booted to os9 so this might not be exact]:

1. open the control panels
2. click network
3. click on the right most tab (i believe web services)
4. click unlock and enter admin password
5. turn on webserver
6. select the directory where you want to publish from
- i'd like to note that others have said to put your files in the directory that is already specified. this is not true at all. you can choose ANY folder that you'd like. i am using a folder that is on my mac os 9 part of the drive.
7. a good thing to do is turn off and then turn back on the webserver

you'll probably want to learn some scripting. i suggest installing PHP and mySQL as the database. also poke around in the developer forums if you want to learn more about using a scripting language (like PHP) to build dynamic websites (i.e. not just .html).
8. have fun because your mac is now more powerful and reliable than any windows server out there (do the research, or better yet, test it out yourself).

notes:
1. your DSL provider might not like the idea of you running a webserver. you might have to purchase a different plan.
2. get some sort of firewall or a broadband router that has one built in, in addition to a software firewall. i see you use a netgear - good. i use a linksys 4 port.
3. LEARN TO CONFIGURE YOUR WEBSERVER (APACHE). this is for security issues.
4. erik mk. ii said "for a small website"... make no mistake you can run a huge website with your software. it is limited moreso by your bandwidth right now than anything else, providing you have fast hard disks, etc.. you can really make a pretty big website. there's a reason you have the world's best, fastest webserver inside your mac. dont' believe me - do the research.
5. you might have to turn of dhcp in order for the outside world to be able to access your webserver, unless your netgear will forward requests to port 80 (the default http port) to your internal network (for your webserver to repond to).

any questions of problems, post 'em or email [email protected]
-raman
     
parallax
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Mar 7, 2001, 10:19 PM
 
Apache is included with OS X.

System Prefs>Network>Services will let you enable web services.
You can use FTP and telnet as well, using the Sharing pane of the System Prefs.

Your main webserver directory can be /Library/Webserver/Documents

CGI stuff goes in /Library/Webserver/CGI-Executables

Configuration and logs in
/Library/Webserver

If you use a lot of CGI, make sure you trash your apache_error_log every once in a while. Mine got to 50 Megs

Perl Modules ( I think ) defaultly go in /Library/Perl, which you'll need to create.

Since you have a router, you'll need to do some Port Forwarding or create a De-Militarized Zone (DMZ).

On my Linksys, that's simply done by going to the router's internal webpage and selecting advanced>(port forwarding, dmz host). Check your router's documentation.

If you don't know Perl or PHP already, either would be a good idea to learn. Try Perl. Even if you don't use it for CGI, it'll come in handy for an all-purpose scripting language.

Your DSL is more that adequate for hosting.
"Against stupidity, the gods themselves contend in vain" (Schiller)
     
Alex Duffield
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Mar 8, 2001, 01:34 AM
 
Originally posted by [email protected]:
What about the dsl/router issue. If you have a router that does network address translation from an internal ip scheme can you still point a web sight at your public ip address?
In that case you wold need to map port 80 of the router to your port 80 on your mac. This is easy on the Asante router.

------------------
Alex Duffield
------------------

*Compliments mr_SonicBlue
Alex Duffield
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Fatal error: Call to undefined function: signature() in /usr/local/www/htdocs/showthread.php on line 813
     
Raman
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Mar 8, 2001, 12:06 PM
 
Parallax: "On my Linksys, that's simply done by going to the router's internal webpage and selecting advanced>(port forwarding, dmz host). Check your router's documentation."

You have to turn off DHCP on the Linksys to do this right? If one has say 4 computers on their home network, each with ip addreses from 192.168.1.2-255 obtained from the DHCP server in the router and you turn off DHCP in the router, will these machines now obtain their IP addresses from the provider (if "get IP address from DHCP" is selected on each machine) and the provider will give you more than 1 IP address? if so then how can you set it up so that if someone hits your (routers) ip address at port80, a computer on your internal network responds to it? i read about dmz, port forwarding and on top of the page in the router web it says you have to turn off DHCP, essentially negating the reason why i got the damn thing in the first place (to hide teh # of comptuers that are sharing the connection).

TIA
     
parallax
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Mar 8, 2001, 02:04 PM
 
I have DHCP on. My computer's IP has been the same (192.168.1.100) for as long as I can remember, so I don't need to worry about it.
"Against stupidity, the gods themselves contend in vain" (Schiller)
     
MadBrowser
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Mar 8, 2001, 02:14 PM
 
Raman-

DHCP has no relation to NAT (Network Address Translation). NAT is what is hiding your machines behind the firewall.

If you do have to turn off DHCP, just set your computers to use static addressing like this:

Computer 1:
IP: 192.168.1.2
Subnet: 255.255.255.0
Gateway: 192.168.1.1
DNS: Whatever DNS servers you use

Computer 2:
IP: 192.168.1.3
Subnet: 255.255.255.0
Gateway: 192.168.1.1
DNS: Whatever DNS servers you use

This will keep all your computers behind the firewall and hidden/protected.

Setting up port forwarding is better than using the DMZ as the DMZ makes one machine totally vulnerable while port forwarding only affectes specific user-defined ports/services.
     
DannyVTim
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Mar 8, 2001, 02:42 PM
 
I'm not sure how you resolve the IP problem.
But at the mac section of the Orielly page they had a good article on how you could set up a home server with a dynamic IP that most people get, and he did it behind a firewall. It's exactly what your looking for. I'll try to find the address
Dan
     
PowerBookDude
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Mar 8, 2001, 02:42 PM
 
Originally posted by parallax:
I have DHCP on. My computer's IP has been the same (192.168.1.100) for as long as I can remember, so I don't need to worry about it.
(I didn't read all the posts in this topic, so if my question was already answered sorry)

If you use Web Sharing/Hosting on a Linksys router only the people on your network can view it right? I mean a lot people with Linksys routers have the same IP address (192.168.1.100). So how can remote people view the page?

Thanks.

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Ti 500/384/20/Airport
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Pismo 500/256/12/Airport
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iMac DV SE 400/128/12/Airport
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iBook Blueberry 300/96/3/Airport
     
griffman
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Mar 8, 2001, 02:48 PM
 
>>If you use Web Sharing/Hosting on a Linksys router only the people on your network can view it right? I mean a lot people with Linksys routers have the same IP address (192.168.1.100). So how can remote people view the page?<<

If you tell the Linksys to forward port 80 (the HTTP port) to a given box on the network, it will do so. So if your Mac has an internal IP of 192.168.1.200, and you then tell the Linksys to forward port 80 to that IP, your site will be visible from the outside world. This assumes your ISP doesn't try to block servers; mine does by blocking all ports below 1024. So I run Apache on a higher port number, and port forward that port to my Mac :-).

-rob.
Visit macosxhints.com ... a community-built OS X hints and tips site.
     
Buck_Naked  (op)
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Mar 8, 2001, 02:54 PM
 
Hi to all. Thank you for all the responses.
I should of included more info though....
I do have a static IP address from Pacbell.
I have my computers behind the Netgear Gateway router RT314 using
connect by Ethernet, using BootP Server.
I bought the Router to share files and have booth computers conected at the same time.
I'm not sure if the Netgear has 'Port forwarding, etc'

Thank you all for your help.
PS. I live very close to Apple computer :-)
     
PowerBookDude
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Mar 8, 2001, 03:46 PM
 
Originally posted by griffman:
>>If you use Web Sharing/Hosting on a Linksys router only the people on your network can view it right? I mean a lot people with Linksys routers have the same IP address (192.168.1.100). So how can remote people view the page?<<

If you tell the Linksys to forward port 80 (the HTTP port) to a given box on the network, it will do so. So if your Mac has an internal IP of 192.168.1.200, and you then tell the Linksys to forward port 80 to that IP, your site will be visible from the outside world. This assumes your ISP doesn't try to block servers; mine does by blocking all ports below 1024. So I run Apache on a higher port number, and port forward that port to my Mac :-).

-rob.
I see. Thanks for clearing that up.

But, what if someone else (like a cross the street etc) has the same IP address from the Linksys and has port 80 forward to the IP address?

Do you know if Earthlink trys to block servers?

Thanks.



------------------
Ti 500/384/20/Airport
------------------
Pismo 500/256/12/Airport
------------------
iMac DV SE 400/128/12/Airport
------------------
iBook Blueberry 300/96/3/Airport
     
griffman
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Mar 8, 2001, 03:58 PM
 
The "192" series of IP's are not "public," they are internal to your network. The actual Linksys box does have a unique IP visible to the outside world - in fact, it must have a unique IP in order to work properly. That IP number can be dynamically or statically assigned by your ISP. The 192 series IP numbers are used behind the router, so they'll only be visible to machines plugged into your router. Make sense? So you don't need to worry about the person across the street.

Hosting a web site can be tougher if your connection uses a dynamic IP address - then you need to use dyndns.org or some similar service to have an address people can find easily.

I'm not sure what Earthlink's policy on servers is; probably the easiest thing to do is check their website for their acceptable usage policies.

-rob.
Visit macosxhints.com ... a community-built OS X hints and tips site.
     
PowerBookDude
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Mar 8, 2001, 04:15 PM
 
Originally posted by griffman:
The "192" series of IP's are not "public," they are internal to your network. The actual Linksys box does have a unique IP visible to the outside world - in fact, it must have a unique IP in order to work properly. That IP number can be dynamically or statically assigned by your ISP. The 192 series IP numbers are used behind the router, so they'll only be visible to machines plugged into your router. Make sense? So you don't need to worry about the person across the street.

Hosting a web site can be tougher if your connection uses a dynamic IP address - then you need to use dyndns.org or some similar service to have an address people can find easily.

I'm not sure what Earthlink's policy on servers is; probably the easiest thing to do is check their website for their acceptable usage policies.

-rob.
I get it now.

Thank you.



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Ti 500/384/20/Airport
------------------
Pismo 500/256/12/Airport
------------------
iMac DV SE 400/128/12/Airport
------------------
iBook Blueberry 300/96/3/Airport
     
parallax
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Mar 8, 2001, 04:49 PM
 
Always read your TOS before you choose a provider. Even if stuff seems esoteric and not applicable, you'll find yourself kicking yourself later because you didn't read the Terms of Service.

Yes, Earthlink does allow you to host servers, as long as you take all responsibility for security.

------------------


http://gilgalad.dyndns.org/
"Against stupidity, the gods themselves contend in vain" (Schiller)
     
MadBrowser
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Mar 8, 2001, 04:51 PM
 
Just to nitpick a bit, "192" addresses can be public. It's "192.168" addresses that are never public and are non-routable on the greater Internet.
     
griffman
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Mar 8, 2001, 05:04 PM
 
Yea, I generalized a bit too much on that 192 statement - thanks for clarifying, MadBrowser!

-rob.
Visit macosxhints.com ... a community-built OS X hints and tips site.
     
PowerBookDude
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Mar 8, 2001, 05:27 PM
 
griffman or parallax,

Does Earthlink allow you to manually enter an IP address, subnet, etc in TCP/IP even if I don't have a Static IP?

Thanks!

------------------
Ti 500/384/20/Airport
------------------
Pismo 500/256/12/Airport
------------------
iMac DV SE 400/128/12/Airport
------------------
iBook Blueberry 300/96/3/Airport
     
Raman
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Mar 8, 2001, 06:27 PM
 
Thanks, guys, for clearing it up. I'll try it when I get home.

Also, while we're at it..

yes, 192.168 are "non routeable" addresses but so are "10.something"

Depending on the network configuration, many large companies' internal networks are 10.something.. for instance, my machine is 10.69.19.130..
-Raman
     
PowerBookDude
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Mar 8, 2001, 06:56 PM
 
Originally posted by PowerBookDude:
griffman or parallax,

Does Earthlink allow you to manually enter an IP address, subnet, etc in TCP/IP even if I don't have a Static IP?

Thanks!

(Not trying to sound pushe or anything)


Does anybody know if Earthlink allows you to manually enter an IP address, subnet, etc in TCP/IP even if you don't have a Static IP?

Thanks!


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Ti 500/384/20/Airport
------------------
Pismo 500/256/12/Airport
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iMac DV SE 400/128/12/Airport
------------------
iBook Blueberry 300/96/3/Airport
     
naepstn
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Mar 8, 2001, 08:11 PM
 
PowerBookDude,

Earthlink has nothing to do with what you can enter in TCP/IP. You can enter whatever the heck you want to if you set it to "configure:manually", but it just might not work if it's not right. Your gateway should stay the same, but if you have a dynamic IP address, then you would have to change the IP address every time the ISP changes your IP address. That's why you usually "Configure:Using DHCP"
     
PowerBookDude
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Mar 8, 2001, 08:34 PM
 
Originally posted by naepstn:
PowerBookDude,

...but if you have a dynamic IP address, then you would have to change the IP address every time the ISP changes your IP address. That's why you usually "Configure:Using DHCP"
I do have a dynamic IP.


then you would have to change the IP address every time the ISP changes your IP address. That's why you usually "Configure:Using DHCP"
But, is that the same when using a router? The Linksys gives me a 192.168.X.XXX. So can't I tell it to like keep 192.168.1.103 on the same computer all the time?

Thanks!

EDIT: Fixed typo
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Ti 500/384/20/Airport
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Pismo 500/256/12/Airport
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iMac DV SE 400/128/12/Airport
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iBook Blueberry 300/96/3/Airport

[This message has been edited by PowerBookDude (edited 03-08-2001).]
     
DannyVTim
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Mar 9, 2001, 01:51 PM
 

Here this article will explain what you need in order to setup a home server. It covers dynamic ips and getting out of the firewall etc.
http://www.oreillynet.com/pub/a/69
Dan
     
DannyVTim
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Mar 9, 2001, 02:10 PM
 
sorry ignore the above post
Dan
     
Buck_Naked  (op)
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Mar 11, 2001, 04:02 PM
 
Thank you to all for your imformative posts regarding my question.
     
PowerBookDude
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Mar 16, 2001, 11:23 AM
 
Does anybody know if Earthlink allows you to manually enter an IP address, subnet, etc in TCP/IP even if you don't have a Static IP?

------------------
Ti 500/384/20/Airport
------------------
Pismo 500/256/12/Airport
------------------
iMac DV SE 400/128/12/Airport
------------------
iBook Blueberry 300/96/3/Airport
     
crazyjohnson
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Mar 16, 2001, 12:31 PM
 
Buck Naked! An obvious Seinfeld fan!

Originally posted by Buck_Naked:
What would be involved in using OSX to host my small website?
I'm on a DSL connection with my upload speed topping out at about 100kbs.
Will this work? My computers are behind a NETGEAR RT314 Gateway Router.
My Beta copy configured itself perfectly when I installed it on my G4.
I hope this makes sense......I have been awake for too long with too litle sleep.
Change your world and you will change your mind.
     
Buck_Naked  (op)
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Mar 23, 2001, 01:45 PM
 
Test, this is just a test.
     
PowerBookDude
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Mar 23, 2001, 03:57 PM
 
Originally posted by PowerBookDude:
Does anybody know if Earthlink allows you to manually enter an IP address, subnet, etc in TCP/IP even if you don't have a Static IP?

Does anybody know???

------------------
Ti 500/384/20/Airport * Pismo 500/256/12/Airport * iMac DV SE 400/128/12/Airport
iBook Blueberry 300/96/3/Airport ** Epson 980 and 740i * SoundSticks * Visor Prism * Palm V [retired]
     
DannyVTim
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Mar 23, 2001, 04:06 PM
 
You can download a client to update a site where you can get a free sub domain name account. Try www.dynadns.org or www.dyndns.org

So, basically you plop the files in the sites folder. Turn on web sharing. Go to your router and open port 80 for your machine's IP. And then have a program, a.k.a. client, run and it will tell the dynadns.org site your current IP that you most likely got via PPPoE. The dynadna site will redirect the people to your site.

That's it.

You tell people your web site's address is yoursite.dynadns.org
Dan
     
PowerBookDude
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Mar 23, 2001, 04:29 PM
 
Originally posted by DannyVTim:
You can download a client to update a site where you can get a free sub domain name account. Try www.dynadns.org or www.dyndns.org

So, basically you plop the files in the sites folder. Turn on web sharing. Go to your router and open port 80 for your machine's IP. And then have a program, a.k.a. client, run and it will tell the dynadns.org site your current IP that you most likely got via PPPoE. The dynadna site will redirect the people to your site.

That's it.

You tell people your web site's address is yoursite.dynadns.org
Thanks!



------------------
Ti 500/384/20/Airport * Pismo 500/256/12/Airport * iMac DV SE 400/128/12/Airport
iBook Blueberry 300/96/3/Airport ** Epson 980 and 740i * SoundSticks * Visor Prism * Palm V [retired]
     
PowerBookDude
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Mar 23, 2001, 04:38 PM
 
Originally posted by DannyVTim:
You can download a client to update a site where you can get a free sub domain name account. Try www.dynadns.org or www.dyndns.org

So, basically you plop the files in the sites folder. Turn on web sharing. Go to your router and open port 80 for your machine's IP. And then have a program, a.k.a. client, run and it will tell the dynadns.org site your current IP that you most likely got via PPPoE. The dynadna site will redirect the people to your site.

That's it.

You tell people your web site's address is yoursite.dynadns.org

Two questions.

1. If you password protect your site with Web Sharing (and File Sharing) will it still be password protect with www.dynadns.org or www.dyndns.org?

2. Can you have a live web cam hooked up to your Mac and have it be shown on www.dynadns.org or www.dyndns.org?


------------------
Ti 500/384/20/Airport * Pismo 500/256/12/Airport * iMac DV SE 400/128/12/Airport
iBook Blueberry 300/96/3/Airport ** Epson 980 and 740i * SoundSticks * Visor Prism * Palm V [retired]
     
fleveneur
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Mar 23, 2001, 04:54 PM
 
If you are using a dynamic IP address you'll be able to host.
However, when it comes to domain name, you'll have some problems.
When you register a domain name you need to provide DNS (domain name server). Then the domain name server need to point to your IP address.
If your IP change, the domain name won't find the original IP.
That is why earthlink offer BizDsl with Static IP.

If you know a trick to allow hosting (with domain name) and a dynamic IP, let me know. I'll be interested. ([email protected])
     
   
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