[Webscreamer]

What would be faster in my Sawtooth? Rage 128 Pro 16mb AGP or Radeon 7000(?) 32mb PCI?

[Lateralus]

Rage 128 AGP vs Radeon 7000 PCI = Tie.
Rage 128 AGP vs Radeon 7000 PCI w/ PCI Extreme hack = Radeon.
Rage 128 AGP vs Radeon 7000 AGP = Radeon.

[Webscreamer]

So basically the only advantage of the Radeon 7000 PCI is the mouse cursor dropshadow?

[Lateralus]

The advantage of the Radeon is the ability to enable Quartz Extreme on your machine through the PCI Extreme hack. It'll make your system more responsive all around, and enable further graphics acceleration in pretty much everything.

Honestly though, the Rage 128 and 7000 both suck.

[Webscreamer]

Originally posted by Lateralus:
The advantage of the Radeon is the ability to enable Quartz Extreme on your machine through the PCI Extreme hack. It'll make your system more responsive all around, and enable further graphics acceleration in pretty much everything.

Honestly though, the Rage 128 and 7000 both suck.

Well, of course, but i was just wondering!

Where do I get this PCI Extreme hack and do I need to install it on my system every clean install, or is it more of a firmware thing?

[Lateralus]

PCI Extreme! 2.0

It is easily installable and uninstallable.

Basically, and as far as I know, it edits a text file somewhere in the system that tells the OS to use the AGP bus as the sole bus for Quartz acceleration.

[tooki]

I think that for most GPU-intensive tasks, the Radeon will be appreciably faster. You'd definitely notice it with gaming.

tooki

[reader50]

I agree. I added a Radeon 7000 PCI to my Sawtooth months before changing the Rage 128 Pro out for a Radeon 8500. Even without the QE-PCI hack, the 7000 was significantly faster than the 128 Pro.

[Catfish_Man]

For gaming it would definitely make a noticeable difference, as, iirc, the Radeon supports hardware transform and lighting, and the Rage doesn't.

[Eug Wanker]

How bad is Exposé with the Rage 128, when the CPU is a G4 over 1 GHz? Cuz Exposé sucks on a G4 450 with the Rage 128.

[P]

Originally posted by Eug Wanker:
How bad is Exposé with the Rage 128, when the CPU is a G4 over 1 GHz? Cuz Exposé sucks on a G4 450 with the Rage 128.

Then something is wrong with your G4. Expose works fine on my old iMac DV, G3/400 and Rage 128.

[Eug Wanker]

Originally posted by P:
Then something is wrong with your G4. Expose works fine on my old iMac DV, G3/400 and Rage 128.

It works fine, but it's just choppy as hell. And it's gonna be even worse on your your G3/400. (I've seen it on the G3 500, and it's just as bad as my G4 450.)

[tooki]

Originally posted by P:
Then something is wrong with your G4. Expose works fine on my old iMac DV, G3/400 and Rage 128.

No, I think you just have different definitions of "just fine". No Mac without Quartz Extreme can render Expos� in real-time without choppiness. (Heck, even on Macs with Quartz Extreme it's easy to make Expos� choppy by having a lot of windows open.)

tooki

[Eug Wanker]

Yeah, it's smooth as silk with my TiBook 1 GHz SD with Radeon 9000 64 MB... until I get about 15 windows open.

I'm wondering if GHz can get over this, or if I MUST have QE to get smooth Expos� on my Cube. QE-capable cards built for the Cube are expensive.

[Luca Rescigno]

Flash a PC Radeon 7000 (~$30) or buy one off eBay (~$50). Not super fast, but they're cool and silent, and perfectly capable as long as you're not too demanding.

[GoGoReggieXPowars]

If you're going to flash a card, make it a Radeon 8500.

[Luca Rescigno]

Yes, 8500s are faster, but flashable ones aren't as common and they do cost more. If you can find one though, it's super easy to flash. You don't even need a PC!

[arekkusu]

Originally posted by Catfish_Man:
For gaming it would definitely make a noticeable difference, as, iirc, the Radeon supports hardware transform and lighting, and the Rage doesn't.

The original desktop Radeon (re-labeled Radeon 7200 later) and the Radeon 7500 support hardware T&L, but the Radeon 7000 does not.

[DrBoar]

I just used my old 128 in my Sawtooth with 1.2 GHz G4 upgrade, outside gaming I could not notise any difference in 9 nor X (10.3.6). A CPU upgrade is much more important if you have a 450 MHz CPU than a new graphical card.

I just put in a old HD and installed 9 just to replay Unreal with ATI8500 and 1200 MHz G4 and it is way sweeter than it was with ATI 8500 and only 400 MHz

Get a new CPU in the 1000-1200 MHz range then you can decide if you need a graphical card as well. I have more than a years experince of ATI 8500 with a 400 MHz CPU...

[P]

Originally posted by arekkusu:
The original desktop Radeon (re-labeled Radeon 7200 later) and the Radeon 7500 support hardware T&L, but the Radeon 7000 does not.

You're right, I did not know that. The Radeon 7000 (=Radeon VE) does not have hardware T&L, I just checked with ATi. A lot of third party manufacturers that use that chip claim that it does have hardware T&L, but ATi ought to know. What is the source for this chip? Is it a crippled Radeon (= Radeon 7200) or is it just an older chip relabelled (like 8500 => 9200)?

[arekkusu]

It's a low cost (== crippled) Radeon.

[Eug Wanker]

Originally posted by DrBoar:
I just used my old 128 in my Sawtooth with 1.2 GHz G4 upgrade, outside gaming I could not notise any difference in 9 nor X (10.3.6). A CPU upgrade is much more important if you have a 450 MHz CPU than a new graphical card.

Expos� sucks with the Rage 128, at least with the G4 450. Was it smooth with the 1.2 GHz G4? No 3D Cube effect either with fast user switching.

P.S. Has anyone tried Dashboard with the Rage 128?

[Catfish_Man]

Originally posted by arekkusu:
The original desktop Radeon (re-labeled Radeon 7200 later) and the Radeon 7500 support hardware T&L, but the Radeon 7000 does not.

Yuck! Remind me not to get a Radeon 7000...

[swichd]

Originally posted by Eug Wanker:
Expos� sucks with the Rage 128, at least with the G4 450. Was it smooth with the 1.2 GHz G4? No 3D Cube effect either with fast user switching.

Expos� works fine on my iceBook 500 (with Rage 128 LT/ 8MB). It isn't choppy; it's as smooth as i've seen it. I don't get the cube effect, but I don't miss it much.