[trumptman]

What is my proof? Simple Dell can do an LCD LAPTOP for $999 so you know Apple can do a desktop for that.

Dell is shipping a notebook called the Inspiriron 2500 with the following specs..

12.1 SVGA TFT display
64 meg 100 mhz SDRAM
5 gb U-ATA drive (talk about skimpy)
24x cd-rom
Integrated video
battery, modem, etc...

I think Apple will ship what is essentially the iBook in desktop form. The lowered costs will come from a cheaper 3.5 inch HD, no battery, no fans (ala the current iMac and cube) and finally it will be billed as the return of the transportable Mac Classic,SE,SE/30 type computer.

Apple will benefit from having networking, firewire, etc on every motherboard. (Saves costs) They will use the same argument that was used for all the naysayers who declared the iBook would fail with a 12.1 inch screen. (It isn't the size of the screen, rather the clarity and number of pixels being displayed.

predicted specs

-600 mhz g3
-100 mhz bus
-12.1 inch LCD display at 1024x768
-128-256 megs of ram standard depending upon the pricepoint
-20-40 gig hd depending upon pricepoint
-gf2mx video with 16 megs standard (Cheaper than Rage 128 now that Apple gets to put it on the motherboard themselves.
-standard 10/100, USB, modem, firewire, airport card slot

Ships with standard Apple mouse and keyboard

$999 20 gig hd/cd-drive/128 meg ram
$1199 20 gig hd/dvd/128 meg ram
$1499 40 gig/dvd-cdr/256 meg ram

Let me know what you think....

Nick

[SpeedRacer]

Originally posted by trumptman:
<STRONG>What is my proof? Simple Dell can do an LCD LAPTOP for $999 so you know Apple can do a desktop for that....
I think Apple will ship what is essentially the iBook in desktop form. The lowered costs will come from a cheaper 3.5 inch HD, no battery, no fans (ala the current iMac and cube) and finally it will be billed as the return of the transportable Mac Classic,SE,SE/30 type computer.
</STRONG>

Nick -

While i'll confirm that LCD iMac, you're way off on the specs. BTW, the current iMac (and Cube) already have no fan.

Speed

[iloveOSX]

hi.

i don't agree it will be 12.1 (too small)


i think it will be 14" ish...

[shmerek]

Originally posted by iloveOSX:
<STRONG>hi.

i don't agree it will be 12.1 (too small)


i think it will be 14" ish...</STRONG>

I concur 12.1 is way too freaking small for a desktop

[trumptman]

First of all the reasoning for the 14 inch makes no sense. You folks are like these Applerumor mongers who have Apple selling triple the machine for half the price. All you would have to do is toss in some not even ready for market vaporware for free.

Wouldn't it be cool if Apple did a 14 inch LCD and wouldn't it sell like no tomorrow. Of course it would, and I certainly hope Apple does it. However I have been a Mac user forever and I know that Apple will never give up their margins to grow marketshare. Likewise I know Apple doesn't let their products step all over each other.

So to you 14'inchers.. I ask the following questions.

First how is Apple going to justify selling a 15 inch LCD for $600 and then sell practically that and a whole computer as well for $999?

Second, it isn't can Apple sell an iMac at $999. It is can they sell it and have a 23% margin on it. I suppose they could sell it at cost or close to it to build marketshare, but they have NEVER done this. (Trust me I remember when the Mac Classic was supposed to help Apple take off as the first sub-$1000 mac.)

Apple will do what they always do. They will smile and ask you to accept it. Some will buy and others will wait for the machine that they want. (Some of us have been waiting quite a while)

When you ask yourself if Apple will include the 14 inch LCD, ask yourself..

Where are the combo drives on current iMacs? Certainly it would have only cut their profit margin a bit on each machine....in fact they certainly could have afforded to put them on their professional line but (They aren't even slot loading on the towers)... sorry no...

Where is the 128(instead of 64) meg ram baseline iBook that ships with OS X that REQUIRES 128 megs of ram? I mean in this day and age... how much more would it take out of Apple's bottom line to add 64 more megs? But... sorry no....

Trust me, I remember when Apple was selling 2 meg machines and shipping them with System 7. The more things change, the more they stay the same.

I really want Apple to produce a 14 inch iMac, however I just don't see it happening. It will hurt to many other products or worse yet, their margins. They will sell 12.1 which we already know they can buy tons of them. We know they want lots of shared parts to lower costs. They have a rational. (history of smaller Macs)

Again everyone swore that Apple couldn't sell the iBook with a 12.1 screen and certainly not running at 1024x768. Apple shrugged it off and iBooks are selling fine. Since Dell can do a similar one for $999, I have no doubt that Apple is making their margins, even on the iBook.

Nick

[binky_says_hi]

Apple already has a 12" active matrix LCD computer....
and it's not the iBook.

check it out at --&gt;
http://www.assistivetech.com/p-Gemini.htm#SPEC

The "Gemini" an iBook/iMac combo 'special needs computer'
------------------------------------------------------------------
Weight: 6.6 pounds
Dimensions: 13.6" (w) x 11.5" (h) x 1.8" (d)
Memory: 160MB RAM
Hard Drive: 3GB
Battery: Lithium Ion
Screen: 12" TFT active matrix LCD color, 24 bit, 800x600.
CD-ROM: 24x
Sound: built-in stereo, high quality MacinTalk Pro voices
Microphone: External USB microphone
Processor: G3
Mac OS: 9.04 pre-installed
------------------------------------------------------------------
Under powered for multimedia purposes but I'm sure it's a start

[koffedrnkr]

nope, i just don't buy it. apple would never commit marketing suicide by releasing a 12'' monitor, even if it is LCD. 14'' must be the minimum, because the current imac CRT has a working area of 13.8''.

as for your $600 cost figure, remember that is pure retail. apple margins usually hover around 28%. that means their cost is actually $431. now, that price includes the screen, the enclosure, the power supply,plus all switches and ports. strip all that away and what are you down to? i figure the enclosure, power button, ports etc. cost somewhere around $100. that means the SCREEN costs around $330. now, subtract the cost of the CRT in the current imac. i figure the real cost difference is around $200, not $600.

here's another reason 12'' won't work....other manufacturers have released 12'' models that have been failures. apple knows this. make the screen 12'' and there's not much reason to buy an imac instead of an ibook. i bet it will be a 15'' LCD. that size provides a solid increase in work area over the current imac, but doesn't take up anymore space.

finally, consider this...apple has a sizeable investment in samsung to provide them with cost effective and stable supplies of LCD screens. the very low price of the new ibook is proof that this partnership is yeilding results. at least i hope so....because if apple were stupid enough to go from a 13.8'' CRT to a 12'' LCD with an attending cost increase, the media would massacre them for it. "apple gives less for more". not a pretty picture.

[zigzag]

Originally posted by trumptman:
<STRONG>So to you 14'inchers.. I ask the following questions.

First how is Apple going to justify selling a 15 inch LCD for $600 and then sell practically that and a whole computer as well for $999? </STRONG>

Good point, but there might be people who want a G4 (Cube or tower) and a 15" LCD. Also, it's been rumored that the 15" monitor is being EOL'd. Of course, this is all still in the realm of speculation. But it's fun.

[ion]

I dont know what you people are talking about. Id take the 12.1" iBook screen over that god awful 13.8" iMac screen any day! I used to own an iMac while I was inbetween real macs and the screen on that thing was BAD. Apple would be smart to do what trumptman suggested, Steve seems to like the idea of a semi-portable desktop and he would go insane over this! Now trumptman was a little off on the specs if this were to happen because the bus speed would have to match the iBooks for Apple to pull off the assembly line wham bam thank you mam, but the idea was good. The only way itd be 14.1" was if the iBooks were bumped to 14.1" which lots of people around here are speculating but I dont see happening any time soon.

[waffffffle]

I hope apple doesn't go 12" for the sole reason that education people have been bitching for years that the iMac wasn't 17 inch (they're too dumb to understand that the thing would be too huge) and if Apple has been listening to their customers, which they have been doing a little bit more of than they usually do, they won't go 12.

However 12" would have some advantages. It would be VERY small. Although I really am hoping for a front-loading CD slot. I don't want to have to put cds in the top of my iMac like a toaster. But then again I think I've permanently become a portable user now and I don't think the iMac is for me anymore. Even my little sister is confident that when she goes off to college in a year she will be taking a new iBook (hopefully with a 700MHz G3/256MB/20GB and 6 hour battery life standard. Hey we can all dream )

[iPaul UK]

YAWN!

[trumptman]

I hope apple doesn't go 12" for the sole reason that education people have been bitching for years that the iMac wasn't 17 inch (they're too dumb to understand that the thing would be too huge) and if Apple has been listening to their customers, which they have been doing a little bit more of than they usually do, they won't go 12.

Actually if Apple was listening to their education customers, they would go small. I'm not saying it justifies 12.1 inches of smallness, but certainly not 17 inches. Have you been to most elementary schools? I am a teacher and I work at one so I know, space comes at a serious premium. Most computers are stuck on regular kid desks. Regular PC's (tower, 17 inch screen, speakers) look huge and take up too much space. This is why schools have already gone crazy over the iBook. Not only is it cheap, it is small.

Probably the most popular Macs I have seen at schools are either all in ones, (SE, 5200, G3-AIO, iMac), the LC series, or the original Apple II.

For you folks that think this iMac would kill the iBook, you are wrong. Think about the specs I posted.

-600 mhz g3
-100 mhz bus
-12.1 inch LCD display at 1024x768
-128-256 megs of ram standard depending upon the pricepoint
-20-40 gig hd depending upon pricepoint
-gf2mx video with 16 megs standard (Cheaper than Rage 128 now that Apple gets to put it on the motherboard themselves.
-standard 10/100, USB, modem, firewire, airport card slot

Ships with standard Apple mouse and keyboard

$999 20 gig hd/cd-drive/128 meg ram
$1199 20 gig hd/dvd/128 meg ram
$1499 40 gig/dvd-cdr/256 meg ram


First of all, this is the current high end Mac. Taking the high end and making it the low end is quite reasonable cost and reality-wise. I love these mock-ups that have 733 mhz G4's, have the TiBook LCD and say "starting at $899." In your dreams.

It also seperates itself from the iBook in the following ways, it has 33% more bus speed (same 100 mhz bus as the current iMac has which also keeps it from stepping on g4 towers.) It is 100 mhz faster than iBook. It has gf2mx and 16 megs of video ram (Rage 128 and 8 for iBook) Double the memory and HD space at its relative level and also it is $300 cheaper.

Again all fall within the realm of do-able and reasonable.

Watch for Steve's 1/2 hour reality distortion field talk to include a history on the original idea of the Macintosh. (9 inch screen, closed, not expandible, silent, you could put it in the kitchen) This is the iMac you could put in your kids 10x12 bedroom next to their 13 inch television.

Nick

[Cipher13]

If Apple releases a DESKTOP with a screen smaller than what the base range PowerBooks had 3 years ago they're gonna be crucified.

[macvillage.net]

Check this out:
http://www.macuser.co.uk/MacSurfer/p...e.php3?id=1159

[ThinkInsane]

Originally posted by binky_says_hi:
<STRONG>Apple already has a 12" active matrix LCD computer....
and it's not the iBook.

check it out at --&gt;
http://www.assistivetech.com/p-Gemini.htm#SPEC

The "Gemini" an iBook/iMac combo 'special needs computer'
------------------------------------------------------------------
Weight: 6.6 pounds
Dimensions: 13.6" (w) x 11.5" (h) x 1.8" (d)
Memory: 160MB RAM
Hard Drive: 3GB
Battery: Lithium Ion
Screen: 12" TFT active matrix LCD color, 24 bit, 800x600.
CD-ROM: 24x
Sound: built-in stereo, high quality MacinTalk Pro voices
Microphone: External USB microphone
Processor: G3
Mac OS: 9.04 pre-installed
------------------------------------------------------------------
Under powered for multimedia purposes but I'm sure it's a start </STRONG>

It seems vastly under powered for it $5000+ low end price tag!

[dbergstrom]

Originally posted by trumptman:
<STRONG>
predicted specs

-600 mhz g3
-100 mhz bus
-12.1 inch LCD display at 1024x768
-128-256 megs of ram standard depending upon the pricepoint
-20-40 gig hd depending upon pricepoint
-gf2mx video with 16 megs standard (Cheaper than Rage 128 now that Apple gets to put it on the motherboard themselves.
-standard 10/100, USB, modem, firewire, airport card slot

Ships with standard Apple mouse and keyboard

$999 20 gig hd/cd-drive/128 meg ram
$1199 20 gig hd/dvd/128 meg ram
$1499 40 gig/dvd-cdr/256 meg ram

Let me know what you think....

Nick</STRONG>

I can't claim to guess what the screen size will be, but I hope these are not the optical drive options. In the portable realm ,it makes sense to have the DVD be the middle option between CD and combo, since many people use the iBook as a portable theater when travelling. But how many people use DVD on the desktop?

Given the fact that Apple admits they missed the boat on CDRW, that current iMacs ship with CDRW over DVD, and that most low-end PCs ship with CDRW rather than DVD, I think we'll see CDRW in the middle config.

Plus, for $200 you need to give people more than a different optical drive. On the iBook, $200 buys you DVD and 64 MB RAM (compared to the $1299 model). I think we'll still see 64 MB on the base iMac, so that $200 would buy you the CDRW and 64 MB RAM.

Plus, buy a Mac from any reseller, and you get extra RAM. Most double your RAM (MacConncection sent me 128 MB - PC133!) with my new iBook. Some even include 128 MB with the 68 MB iMacs to give 192 MB total.