[besson3c]

X11 forwarding and the Windows Server equivalent (I think it is called NetApp or something like that) are incredibly useful, I use X11 forwarding with my Linux box *constantly* to run Linux applications through my Mac's display. Before you suggest that I run an equivalent Mac app, rest assured that there is no Mac equivalent for what I need, and that sometimes it is simply useful to run an app on a different box.

Apple wants to sell Macs, so on one hand it makes sense to force people to buy Mac hardware for each individual that needs to run a Mac app. However, in the case of X11 forwarding, this is something they could make OS X Server only much like Microsoft did with Windows Server, and use it as a selling point. Wouldn't it be handy to share applications with a single license, a single configuration, and a single storage location?

Obviously this wouldn't be a case of supporting X11 forwarding since Aqua does not run on X11, but why not develop something equivalent? These features have been available in Windows and Linux for a very long time, and it's bad enough that Apple doesn't support virtualization of anything but OS X Server on Apple hardware.

[Gavin]

never mind ... I read your post wrong
I had some stuff about the diffs between X11 and Mac apps but it didn't apply to the real question.

I was also going to mention stepwise too but it's gone... WTF - I think I need to start drinking before I get too depressed.

anyway...
Grand Central Dispatch and xgrid have been added to break execution across processors and even computers, so I'll bet support could be added for remote GUI - "RemoteKit" or something

but I doubt the demand is high enough. Seems like they only add these things when they need it internally.

[Simon]

Apple is all about selling a Mac OS X experience. You can't get that by forwarding a window across an ssh connection. Make no mistake, I love X11 and X11 forwarding and I use it about 16 hours a day. But that's not the way Apple rolls. It's simply a different mindset.

Of course nothing is stopping you from running X11 apps on a Mac and forwarding those to any X11-enabled computer anywhere else. I actually do that a lot too. Some Xemacs but also a few X11 front-ends to control system apps I wrote myself and not to forget: xmahjongg. Works just fine.

If you want the Mac OS X experience you're supposed to buy a Mac and run the real deal. Now you may or may not agree with that strategy personally, but what is entirely undisputed is that that strategy has worked quite well for them lately.

[mduell]

I think Apple's more interested in the consumer looking for the shinyshiny than the advanced Unix/Windows user because they're easier to find and just as profitable. For the same effort/cost they could do this, or some shiny feature that creates buzz. They'll take buzz.

[besson3c]

Well, how did Microsoft monetize this feature?

[mduell]

With their server products, where Apple is weak and uninterested.

[besson3c]

Do you think the iPhone could change Apple's OS X Server strategy?

[besson3c]

I guess your explanation makes the most sense Simon and mduell, I was thinking along the same lines, but I also can't help thinking that Apple could monetize with these sorts of advanced features and products the same way Microsoft has, and that there might be a halo effect in growing in these sorts of areas.

Also, you have the "Apple made it, it must be the best" camp who will tell you that the XServe is the best 1U server money can buy (and a great value), that OS X Server can do anything you'd ever need on the server side without requiring a whole lot of knowhow, etc. they have a built in marketing machine in their fan base that is the envy of all in the industry. Don't you think they could make some pretty significant inroads here that would benefit them in multiple ways?

Or, are they putting all of their eggs into one basket in growing through the iPad and iPhone? To be clear, I'm simply wondering if they can juggle another ball without dropping them all, not replacing some balls with other types of balls.

[Uncle Skeleton]

Sorry to dredge up a semi-old thread

Originally Posted by besson3c

Why doesn't OS X support X11 forwarding...?

Does OS X support X11 forwarding? Because there seem to be a lot of pages suggesting it does, including this one from Apple:
Configuring and Running X11 Applications on Mac OS X

I would like to use X11 forwarding (to use an intel-only X11 app on a G5), even though I didn't know it existed until yesterday, but when I follow the instructions on the above page, it doesn't work (I can log in by ssh and launch apps, but no gui appears(the apps work fine locally)). So am I missing something important, like the above page only applies to OS X server or something? Running 10.5.8 on both ends. Hopefully someone can help me out, thanks.

[besson3c]

X11 forwarding only works with X11 apps. I was wanting X11 forwarding (or something like it) to work with Aqua apps as well. X11 works on any machine with OpenSSH installed and this feature enabled, and the ability to run X11 apps on the server end.

ssh -X you@yourmachineIP /path/to/application

will start this session.

[Uncle Skeleton]

In that case, do you have any idea why it's not working for me? Should I start a new thread for help with that?

[besson3c]

What command are you running? X11 forwarding should be enabled by OpenSSH by default. You are welcome to use this thread if you want, up to you

Do you have X11 installed on both machines? It's not installed w. OS X by default.

[Uncle Skeleton]

I did this:
ssh -X -l foo bar.local
cd /usr/X11R6/bin
./xcalc &
(just like in the doc page I linked)

X11 is not installed on the g5, only on the "client." Is that the problem?

[besson3c]

Originally Posted by Uncle Skeleton 

I did this:
ssh -X -l foo bar.local
cd /usr/X11R6/bin
./xcalc &
(just like in the doc page I linked)

X11 is not installed on the g5, only on the "client." Is that the problem?

If it isn't installed on the G5, how do you run X11 apps locally on that machine?

The command should be:

ssh -X -l foo bar.local "/usr/X11R6/bin/xcalc"

the & to fork it into the background and not enclosing your command in quotes (since it includes a space) is probably causing the problem. In this above example, you don't need the quotes since there is no space.

You can also add /usr/X11R6/bin to foo's path so that you can run the command:

ssh -X -l foo bar.local xcalc

although it is already in my path, YMMV.

If you really want to fork the session into the background, the quotes will help do this too, having that space removed when your command includes one.

[Spheric Harlot]

Originally Posted by besson3c 

Do you have X11 installed on both machines? It's not installed w. OS X by default.

It is since 10.5 AFAIK.

[besson3c]

Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot 

It is since 10.5 AFAIK.

I can't remember for certain, although I'm not sure this is so.


If you have Leopard or Snow Leopard you can install the latest version of X11 here: X112.5.3 – XQuartz

[CharlesS]

Spheric is correct — X11 is part of the default install since 10.5.

[besson3c]

Maybe I was thinking of XCode... Oh well, glad that is cleared up.

You still might want to update to the latest version of X.org via the link I provided above though if you are running 10.5/10.6. For me I recalled this fixing bugs with either keyboard mapping, clipboard integration, something like that...

Jumping the gun, I guess, but...

[Uncle Skeleton]

Thanks very much all, it's working now

I just had to install X11 (maybe because 10.5 was an upgrade install, don't know). After that, my original command worked as expected.

Now on to my next problem, getting (intel-only) Matlab to display on the G5 through X11 forwarding (from Mac Pro). When running it throws 4 of these and then crashes:
*** CPerformer: ignoring exception '*** -[NSCFArray insertObject:atIndex:]: attempt to insert nil' raised during perform of selector '_nativeGetTypes:' on target '<CClipboard: 0x21d9e8b0>' with args '(

I can get it to run in CLI mode by disabling java, but I want the GUI, and also a lot of things depend on java (like "help" for example).

Any ideas?

[Uncle Skeleton]

I also have screen-sharing set up for this (using Matlab from the G5). The problem with this is it monopolizes the Mac Pro. Is there a way for screen-sharing to run in the background? I'm guessing not, since you'd have to have 2 independent cursors and menubars etc, which is mac taboo. But is there?

[besson3c]

Skeleton: no, there isn't. The answer to that is the Windows Remote App thing, or X11 forwarding. Otherwise, VNC based solutions like screen sharing just show you exactly what you would see on the monitor if you were to sit down and have physical access to the machine.

[besson3c]

Originally Posted by Uncle Skeleton 

Thanks very much all, it's working now

I just had to install X11 (maybe because 10.5 was an upgrade install, don't know). After that, my original command worked as expected.

Now on to my next problem, getting (intel-only) Matlab to display on the G5 through X11 forwarding (from Mac Pro). When running it throws 4 of these and then crashes:
*** CPerformer: ignoring exception '*** -[NSCFArray insertObject:atIndex:]: attempt to insert nil' raised during perform of selector '_nativeGetTypes:' on target '<CClipboard: 0x21d9e8b0>' with args '(

I can get it to run in CLI mode by disabling java, but I want the GUI, and also a lot of things depend on java (like "help" for example).

Any ideas?

Does it run locally with the GUI?

[Uncle Skeleton]

On the Mac Pro yes, typing "matlab" makes it run just like the .app icon, with GUI

(actually have have to specify 32 bit, but I don't think that is relevant)