[lucylawless]

Originally posted by Spectre666:
The Matrix

amen. You've struck on one of my pet peeves.

<rant>
I can see why this movie appealed to the masses. It looked cool. The heroes' weapons were cell phones, so you could relate to them. It used a decent metaphysical quandry as its basis, despite the fact that it was ripped off wholesale from Total Recall.

But when I go to see a movie, I still expect it to make sense. A plot hole here and there is expected; it lets one feel superior by pointing out the problems. But the Matrix was nothing but holes. There was not one scene that made an ounce of sense, either on its own or in the context of the movie. For example:

The whole deal where Neo could defeat the agents was because he could break the rules of the Matrix, and they couldn't. But then they did. Constantly. It was totally contrived which rules applied when, just to support the story

The whole movie is just so flakey and half-assed. not to mention keanu as the lead... I hate how everyone likes it.
</rant>

[Cipher13]

Idea: get over it. Like what you like, and we'll like what we like.
No reason to hate that people like it so much.


------------------

[plaidpjs]

Originally posted by lucylawless:
amen. You've struck on one of my pet peeves.

<rant>
I can see why this movie appealed to the masses. It looked cool. The heroes' weapons were cell phones, so you could relate to them. It used a decent metaphysical quandry as its basis, despite the fact that it was ripped off wholesale from Total Recall.

But when I go to see a movie, I still expect it to make sense. A plot hole here and there is expected; it lets one feel superior by pointing out the problems. But the Matrix was nothing but holes. There was not one scene that made an ounce of sense, either on its own or in the context of the movie. For example:

The whole deal where Neo could defeat the agents was because he could break the rules of the Matrix, and they couldn't. But then they did. Constantly. It was totally contrived which rules applied when, just to support the story

The whole movie is just so flakey and half-assed. not to mention keanu as the lead... I hate how everyone likes it.
</rant>

Okay, not that I want to keep this rant of yours going, but you've left holes in your argument, and I was hoping you'd fill them.

First, how is The Matrix a "wholesale" ripoff of Total Recall?

Second, what rules did the "agents" break?

Thanks,
Ciao!



------------------
G4/500 DP, 768 MB RAM, 40GB HDD, 32MB ATI Radeon OEM, 30GB VST Firewire Drive, and an Apple Cinema Display

[Cipher13]

I assume lucylawless means its a ripoff of TR in the way that TR was a false reality, as is the Matrix.

Even though the Matrix revolves around the characters LEAVING this false reality, whereas TR is them entering it, no?

Eh, I can't remember. Oh well.


------------------

[plaidpjs]

Originally posted by Cipher13:
I assume lucylawless means its a ripoff of TR in the way that TR was a false reality, as is the Matrix.

Even though the Matrix revolves around the characters LEAVING this false reality, whereas TR is them entering it, no?

Eh, I can't remember. Oh well.

Nice try, Cipher. But, and I say this after having just rewatched both of those movies the other night, I don't see any "wholesale" parallel. the settings are dissimilar, the story lines are far from hamronious, and the characters aren't juxtaposable.

------------------
G4/500 DP, 768 MB RAM, 40GB HDD, 32MB ATI Radeon OEM, 30GB VST Firewire Drive, and an Apple Cinema Display

[Cipher13]

Originally posted by plaidpjs:
Nice try, Cipher. But, and I say this after having just rewatched both of those movies the other night, I don't see any "wholesale" parallel. the settings are dissimilar, the story lines are far from hamronious, and the characters aren't juxtaposable.

Heya, you're argueing against the wrong person. I'm just trying to see how lucylawless might see it - I'm not argueing that side of the point.


------------------

[davidflas]

Movies that where supposed to be good, but that I turned off:

What Lies Beneath
The Perfect Storm

Movies that just plan sucked:
Highlander 2,3,4
Aliens 3, Resurrection
Shocker
Sleepwalkers
Showgirls


------------------
Jesus chills with a 40

[plaidpjs]

Originally posted by Cipher13:
Heya, you're argueing against the wrong person. I'm just trying to see how lucylawless might see it - I'm not argueing that side of the point.

Apologies, i didn't mean it to sound like I was trying to argue with you. i was just responding to what you said... =)

------------------
G4/500 DP, 768 MB RAM, 40GB HDD, 32MB ATI Radeon OEM, 30GB VST Firewire Drive, and an Apple Cinema Display

[Cipher13]

Originally posted by plaidpjs:
Apologies, i didn't mean it to sound like I was trying to argue with you. i was just responding to what you said... =)

No prob, but I don't agree with what I was said, I was trying to say what I thought lucylawless was implying

Or something. I forget now. Oh well.


------------------

[nealconner]

2001: A Space Oddesy

Gahhh! Thats so borring! It drove me crazy. It showed the word "Overture" for about 5 minutes. Then monkeys started whacking things with bones. I turned it off. I can't watch a movie if it has a stupid beginning.

------------------
We've secretly replaced the Pacific Ocean with Folgers crystals...

[NickKohn]

"Junior", "Batman&Robin", "Batman Forever", and all "Leprachaun"s past 2

Best Movie: "Falling Down"
Scariest Movie: "Event Horizon"

[Cipher13]

Originally posted by NickKohn:
"Junior", "Batman&Robin", "Batman Forever", and all "Leprachaun"s past 2

Best Movie: "Falling Down"
Scariest Movie: "Event Horizon"

Batman and Robin wasn't too bad... and even if it was it had the likes of Alicia Silverstone in a bat-girl outfit to lighten the mood


------------------

[shmerek]

Originally posted by davidflas:

Highlander 2,3,4

Is #4 the one with both the highlanders? The lame dude from the tv series and the dude from the original movie? How on earth would they make that premise work (there can be only one... but there are two... and they are cousins)? I really liked the origninal flick but the rest sucked tremedous arse. I am curious about the last one but I am sure it is absolutely god awful

------------------
Updated and improved

[hmurchison2001]

Ahhh my kind of subject.

These movies just plain ole' sucked:

Alien3 Resurrection- How did they let this Franchise go astray?
Predator2- See above comments.
Lost Souls- I'm normally pretty easy on movies but I wanted my money back.
Charlies Angels- T&A and not much else. Diaz looked like crap(lu was nice)
Deep Blue Sea- OMG how did Samuel choose this? I was relieved when the shark ate him and spared his talents on this bust.
Sphere- WTF??? What where they thinking???
Mission to Mars- Yuck Yuck Yuck....horrible
Red Planet- Two Mars movies...two duds.
Stigmata- What a total bore.
Double Jeopardy- Watchable but highly predictable therefore sucky.

Enough of the negativity heres some movies that I liked.

Traffic- Benecia Del Toro kicks arse in this movie. If you liked "Out of Sight" also from Soderbergh you'll like this. The Directing is unique.

The Cell- Don't watch this movie for the plot or characters simply take in the scenes. This is like Movie Art with acting and plot thrown in later.

The Matrix- Sure the plot is weak and Keanu is not the best actor but when it's all said and done the Wachowski Brothers know how to tie a slamming music score together with unforgettable scenes(Lucas please take note) it features passable dialogue and great cinematography(IMO of course)

Magnolia- PT Anderson is a strange director(he does date Fiona Apple so birds of a feather right?) but the characters in this movie are strong throughout the whole movie. Cruise and Moore kick butt ..sometimes hard to follow but in the end I liked it more than I though. Don't watch if you need to have action in your movies.

Fight Club- Never what you expect at first. Strong Pitt performance as Tyler Durden. Watch it with an open mind.

American History X- What can I say...Edward Norton is the real deal.

Glory- One of Brodericks best performances, Denzel Washington produces one of the most riveting scenes you'll ever see. You gotta love it.

That's all for now kiddies.

[Spectre666]

Originally posted by Demonhood:
Who here thinks Spectre just wants to pick a fight?

No, that is my honest answer.

Oh yeah, in case anyone in here doesn't know, The Matrix is just Plato's Allegory of the Cave, wrapped with a cheesy plot and mixed with some fancy special effects.

[AirSluf]

Hamlet 2000, even liquid plot doesn't help that piece o' crap.

[foobars]

Passenger 57 is the worst movie ever. Sorry if you are a Snipes fan.

------------------

[foobars]

Originally posted by Spectre666:
No, that is my honest answer.

Oh yeah, in case anyone in here doesn't know, The Matrix is just Plato's Allegory of the Cave, wrapped with a cheesy plot and mixed with some fancy special effects.

[/QUOTE]

Actually, that's a good point. I never really thought of it that way...

Pretty disrespectful to Plato though.

[Demonhood]

Ugh, enough with the Allegory of the Cave. We went over that enough times in my film classes to make me sick.

I think people need to reevaluate what is a terrible movie. Some people are listing movies that left them with a 'blah' feeling at the end. Certainly not desirable, but not the worst thing in the world. Some people are listing movies that have obvious influences/sources. Guess what? There is nothing 100% original anymore. Look at the movie for what it was, not for what you think the filmmakers were thinking as they made it.

I'd have to agree that Hamlet 2000 was pretty bad. A good test is that if, after the film has finished, you are completely sure you could have made a better film, it gets a thumbs down.

[ort888]

There are so many bad movies, I'll just name the last really bad one I saw, Nurse Betty. Whatta chunk of feces. It makes me want to drive to hollywood with a car full of weapons and pump some lead into any granola eating crap distributer I see. It was just SO bad.

------------------
ort!

[artman]

What's interesting is that so many of you were duped into actually paying to see some of these recent films. I'm not perfect either...who is...but I can smell a stinker of a movie a mile away...it's usually when the trailer was enough entertainment than what the movie will bring.

Like I saw the trailer to "Velvet Underground" and thought 'Hey, a look back at the Glitter Rock Era...' Uh, uh. Very idiotic movie with a horrible soundtrack. I walked out halfway though the movie.

I snuck into see "Gone in Sixty Seconds" and walked outta that stinker too.

Funny, I thought "Showgirls" was so bad that it was good...

------------------
The Artman @_@
http://www.artshack.com

[olePigeon]

No no no no. ALL of you have it wrong. The worse movie in the history of all movies is "Troll 2."

[Demonhood]

I think "so bad it was good" should be its own topic. Along the same lines as "guilty pleasures". Something is 'so bad it's...bad' when even MST3K can't save it.

[NickKohn]

oops, left this one out, "Gods and Monsters"
-also, almost every Hulk Hogan movie (except for when he was in "Rocky") was awful

Can't believe there's no nominations from The Spice Channel

[steve666]

If Tom Cruise ever makes a movie in which he gets beaten up, or killed, I will go see it. The guy sucks, plain and simple. He wasn't as awful as usual in Born on The 4th of July. He wasn't good, either. As for magnolia, I usually avoid any movies he's in because he sucks so bad, but maybe I'll rent it when it becomes available so I can turn it off if he sucks as usual................

[I'mDaMac]

Showgirls- Bad storyline, bad acting, just plain bad; a waste of film. Mars Attacks runs a CLOSE second.

Movies I liked that I feel are worth mentioning:
Slingblade and the Professional.

[shmerek]

I think Mr. Cruise is geting a bad rap here, it isn't so much that his acting is bad he seems to have a range at least, some actors can hardly be called that no matter what movie they are in they are the same character or they becomes parodies of themselves. For example Will Smith isn't an actor he is just Will Smith in different flicks regardless of the plot he is always the same. Nick Cage seems to be doing his best Nick Cage impersonation these days. Yes MI 2 was a useless pile of crap but he has done some good work Taps, legend and some of the stuff mentioned earlier... and bad Cocktail, Top Gun etc..

------------------
Updated and improved

[Treky]

It's a difficult decision but my pick for worst movie ever is "Broken Arrow" with John Revolta.

[sek929]

Dude, hmurchison2001 you are so right about Fight Club and The Cell.

I agree with most of what Mr. Durden says, although I'm guilty of most of it.

And The Cell was such great eye-candy but not in the typical CG (computer graphics) fests.

Alien 3 wasn't that bad, I love the ending when the Alien is chasing them through the tunnels, best part ever. But boy did 4 blow.

I ran out of ideas, but mark my words i will return to this thread......and who said that 2001 sucked!!! gah!

------------------


[This message has been edited by sek929 (edited 04-22-2001).]

[parallax]

Originally posted by nealconner:
2001: A Space Oddesy

Gahhh! Thats so borring! It drove me crazy. It showed the word "Overture" for about 5 minutes. Then monkeys started whacking things with bones. I turned it off. I can't watch a movie if it has a stupid beginning.

You're joking, right? That's got to be one of my all-time favorites, right up there with Dr. Strangelove. You can't treat it like it's a normal movie.

[yoyo52]

Originally posted by Demonhood:
There is nothing 100% original anymore.

I'm not sure there ever was. In a book called The Burden of the Past and the English Poet, W. J. Bate quotes an ancient Egyptian text in which the author laments that there's nothing new under the sun to write.

------------------

[olePigeon]

No damn it!

Troll 2!

[Scott_H]

Patriot <- complete crap

[itomato]

Any movie with any or all of the following:

1. Animals playing sports (Air Bud or sequels, MVC - about a chimp that plays hockey)
2. Mary Kate and Ashley Olsen
3. Jeff Goldblum (Except Transylvania 6-5000)

Now movies that are so bad, they gotta be good *is* a topic that definately deserves it's own thread...
1. Bad Taste
2. Redneck Zombies
3. The ever-popular Evil Dead 2

<rant>
GAH! 2001?!?! Are you kidding?! That is *by far* the greatest film ever made. (IMO) It's a piece of art, not just some 120 minute TV show.. Ever watch and see how right on the money Isaac Asimov was in his predictions, and Kubrick was in his representations? Mind boggling!
</rant>

------------------
-- | T () /\/\ /\ T () --

[This message has been edited by itomato (edited 04-23-2001).]

[This message has been edited by itomato (edited 04-23-2001).]

[NickKohn]

Originally posted by I'mDaMac:

Movies I liked that I feel are worth mentioning:
Slingblade and the Professional.

The Professional?? OMG, that movie was great. you have no taste.

Here's another all-time worst: Bill & Ted's Bogus Journey

[hmr]

Plan 9 From Outer Space is a fantastic movie. But you have to be aware of the fact that you are watching the worst movie of all times - that makes it so great!

Go get it now!

[IceEnclosure]

THE DIRTBIKE KID (saw it once like 10 yrs ago...oh my..)


COREY FELDMAN movies (but i gotta watch 'em)


Talking, flying skateboard movies

all bad

drew


------------------


[This message has been edited by IceEnclosure (edited 04-23-2001).]

[denim]

Originally posted by Demonhood:
Who here thinks Spectre just wants to pick a fight?

Me!!

My vote for the worst (that I remember), is another Leslie Neilsen movie: Mr. Magoo. God but that was awful. A truly bad movie, IMO, everyone forgets ever existed, including the actors who were in it.

[denim]

Originally posted by itomato:
Ever watch and see how right on the money Isaac Asimov was in his predictions, and Kubrick was in his representations? Mind boggling!

Er, what does Asimov have to do with Clarke's best work?

[malson]

The worst of the worst:

Blade: come on...you're joking right? just plain sucks
8mm: just plain retarded
Police Academy series: funny when you're 12, but not much after that
Starship Troopers: what a waste of sucky special effects

there are a bunch of others that I could put on here. just can't think of titles right now...

[wulf]

(Please excuse lengthy post: 'fraid this was red rag to a bull! )

Hardly anyone has said why they think a movie sucked (full points to lucy lawless, I may not agree about the Matrix, but at least she has REASONS for her opinion)

I'm not saying that you're not all entitled to your opinion, but just saying "Something About Mary is lame", "No Something About Mary is really cool" is just another playground discussion like "I can pee further than you".

WHY do you think it's lame??


(Sorry if I sound flamey... I love debating movies, but the whole "Oh no it isn't", "Oh yes it is" thing is just silly.)

Alien3 Resurrection- How did they let this Franchise go astray?

I guess it started with James Cameron, who made a very entertaining Vietnam/War movie with "Aliens". The '80s blockbuster template had been set, and fans would never accept an original premise again.

Alien3 got cut to shreds by the studio. That is mainly why it's so inconsistent, several vital character development scenes were chopped out. In some ways, it's a "better" sequel than Aliens (although not as entertaining, I'm sure most will agree!), because it develops the original premise, whereas Aliens pretty much discards it completely.

As for Alien:Resurrection, it was Jean-Pierre (Delicatessan) Jeunet's first foray into Hollywood. He said himself that it was a truly awful experience. He hasn't been back. He brought some nice visual flair to the piece, but ultimately he did not have script control... and this is a director who usually writes his (French) masterpieces... I imagine he was truly a fish out of water with that movie, because I think he's a fantastic director... but Alien:Resurrection did blow chunks. Reasoning: gross inconsistencies with earlier movies, one-dimensional "mercenary ship crew" (weaker characters even than the "grunts" in Aliens), ludicrous rip-off of "The Fly" as finale, and of course, Winona Ryder

Having said all, that (in the interest of healthy debate?) hmurchison2001 I totally agree with your likes/dislikes... I think Fight Club is probably the most sophisticated cinematic comment on contemporary masculinity since Taxi Driver (ouch, don't I sound pretentious?)

Scariest Movie: "Event Horizon"

Scary only in the sense of how many ideas were lifted directly from recent Hollywood sci-fi movies. I mean they didn't even go to alternate sources (novels/comics, etc.) to rip-off ideas, or even re-fashion them particularly well. Sure, ideas are always recycled (nothing is 100% original, etc.) but generally there's an attempt to try and add a new twist to it somewhere along the way...


As for 2001...

I know that to anyone brought up on a diet of post Spielberg/Lucas sell-out money-spinning blockbusters, 2001 might seem boring, slow, obvious, or whatever. But remember that 2001 totally pioneered the modern sci-fi look and was groundbreaking in several ways, both technical and creative.

To me it feels a little like someone going to see Hamlet at the theatre, getting bored, and then saying "Hamlet is such a load of cr*p, Cats is a much better story" or whatever...

Actually that reminds me, if The Matrix is just Plato's Allegory of the Cave, then so is The Tempest... waitaminute! Every one of Shakespeare's plays is a rip-off! Oh my god, does this mean Shakespeare really is cr*p?!

wulf

[artman]

Originally posted by I'mDaMac:
Showgirls- Bad storyline, bad acting, just plain bad; a waste of film. Mars Attacks runs a CLOSE second.

Showgirls: Go run out and rent a few Russ Meyer flicks (Faster Pussycat, Kill, Kill!, Beyond the Valley of the Dolls) and you'll understand what I mean...I know, some people just didn't "get it".

Here's another...was on TV last night..."Godzilla"...barf.


------------------
The Artman @_@
http://www.artshack.com

[sek929]

Thought of one!

American Pyscho - I truly hated this movie and fell asleep numerous times.

------------------

[maxelson]

Movie that was just so bad that it redeemed itself through laughter: Basket Case. Laughed all the way through.
Movie that was just so bad but could not turn the corner to laughable and was therefore a huge ass waste of time- Battlefield Earth.
I am glad to see people defending Ferris, so there's no need to comment on that.
About the '80s teen flicks: I think if you were a teen during the 80s these films held some value. Breakfast Club- still an all time favorite. If you were not around for it, I can see where they would be considered worthless.
Someone up top slammed "What Lies Beneath". I have to disagree. My wife absolutely DRAGGED my ass to see this. I wanted no part of it. I loved it. Classic Tales from the Crypt story line. I always love it when the redemption is that tasty.

[This message has been edited by maxelson (edited 04-23-2001).]

[denim]

Originally posted by wulf:
Hardly anyone has said why they think a movie sucked (full points to lucy lawless, I may not agree about the Matrix, but at least she has REASONS for her opinion)

Reasons? A movie has to have at least one good attribute to be good. IMO, "Mr. Magoo", "American Beauty", others... have none. Zero good points. What is there to discuss? Generally, you discuss what you liked about a movie. With these there's nothing to talk about.

No, wait. Let me be honest: "American Beauty" had some cool plot twists. I may not have liked the movie as a whole, but there were some interesting elements.

"Blade"... at least had cool special effects. I just rented "Romeo Must Die" over the weekend, and liked it too. I could discuss that if it weren't off-topic. I could talk about the 1999 version of "Titanic", again if it were on-topic. I just don't see a lot of movies, honestly.

And dis "Ferris Bueller's Day Off" at your peril. Next thing, someone here will say they didn't like the original "Back to the Future"!

[This message has been edited by denim (edited 04-23-2001).]

[steve666]

>I think Mr. Cruise is geting a bad rap here, it isn't so much that his acting is bad he seems to have a range at least, some actors can hardly be called that no matter what movie they are in they are the same character or they becomes parodies of themselves. <

Its pretty funny that you mention this since that is EXACTLY the reason I can't stand Tom Cruise. He has NO range, none whatsoever. Every movie has that same smirking phony empty souled smugness. SNL loves parodying him because hes such an empty shell of a man. Have you ever seen him give a speech about another actor? You can cut through his phony act with a pencil. The man is simply the worst actor of his time. Do you get the idea that I don't like him? Few people affect me more negatively than him.............

[trumptman]

You guys are not even close. The worst movie of all time I haven't even seen all of yet because I fell asleep during it. Not at home on VHS, I was at the freakin' theater.

Dark City

Second place but you had to expect it...

Smokey and the Bandit part 3

Watch these two films and you will know there is a hell.....

[GK]

Most Boring movie ever:

A Passage to India


You really have to see it to believe it

[Daishi]

I once read somewhere that we could peel every movie ever made and every story ever told down to 30 basic plots that have existed for thousands of years. Sometimes, that seems very true. So I guess the important thing is a movie's approach to one of those plots and it's execution.


Worst movie I've ever seen so far has to be Robot Jox. They tried so hard, and failed.

"Use your secret weapon: The green laser!"
*Russian robot deflects American green laser with a mirror*
"Oh, no! We've been betrayed!"

Classic...

------------------
i close my mouth now and i scream

[I'mDaMac]

Originally posted by NickKohn:
The Professional?? OMG, that movie was great. you have no taste.

I think you misunderstood. I picked those last two as movies worth watching. "The Professional" was an awesome movie with great acting by Jean Reno, Gary Oldman, and a young Natalie Portman. "Slingblade" was one of those movies that I had to watch twice to appreciate. "A'right then, uhh-huhhh."

Another movie that I felt was a sleeper, but was quite good was "Stir Of Echoes" with Kevin Bacon.