[ink]

Department of Energy - New World Record Achieved in Solar Cell Technology

U.S. Department of Energy (DOE) Assistant Secretary for Energy Efficiency and Renewable Energy Alexander Karsner today announced that with DOE funding, a concentrator solar cell produced by Boeing-Spectrolab has recently achieved a world-record conversion efficiency of 40.7 percent, establishing a new milestone in sunlight-to-electricity performance. This breakthrough may lead to systems with an installation cost of only $3 per watt, producing electricity at a cost of 8-10 cents per kilowatt/hour, making solar electricity a more cost-competitive and integral part of our nation’s energy mix.

The sarcastic topic title is for those who continually claim that it's not the government's "job" to invest in energy research. The government can (and does) utilize the invisible hand of the market with the public coffer to yield results such as this. Now, imagine if we could divert the money we're wasting in Iraq to more such technology investment... the OPEC nations would lose their stranglehold on the world's energy needs. Some may even be held accountable to their citizenship for their policies, instead of continually blaming the "Evil West" for all their ills (keeping their people scared, and not focusing on all the oil wealth being funneled to the top).

[Chuckit]

I agree. We need to get off the Middle East crack if we want to be able to really do the right things in that area. When Bush said he wanted to focus on alternative energy sources, I thought he was finally getting on track. He seems to have forgotten about that in all the apologizing for Iraq, though.

[IceBreaker]

we won't get off middle east crack until its all gone.

the sooner we use it the better. thats why I say buy as big a SUV as you can.

fyi: I'm totally serious. it is rediculous to conserve as then you are only prolonging the issues its use requires.

driving some silly green Prius only enables others to drive their Hummer for longer/cheaper. thanks though!

[ink]

Problem is, we need petroleum for more than just energy. If we suck the ground dry, how are we going to make insulin shots or surgical masks?

But have fun in your SUV in the mean time.

[IceBreaker]

the market takes care of all, don't fret.

[olePigeon]

Originally Posted by ink 

The sarcastic topic title is for those who continually claim that it's not the government's "job" to invest in energy research. The government can (and does) utilize the invisible hand of the market with the public coffer to yield results such as this. Now, imagine if we could divert the money we're wasting in Iraq to more such technology investment... the OPEC nations would lose their stranglehold on the world's energy needs. Some may even be held accountable to their citizenship for their policies, instead of continually blaming the "Evil West" for all their ills (keeping their people scared, and not focusing on all the oil wealth being funneled to the top).

It was developed by Boeing through defense contracts and grants, probably for space programs where it'd be needed "most" to reduce the amount of solid fuel needed for space flight.

I'm not saying that's a bad thing. We had technological leaps and bounds because of the Apollo program, and I think that's awesome.

However, it's just a PR stunt.

[ink]

Originally Posted by IceBreaker 

the market takes care of all, don't fret.

You're probably right

Getting gasoline from oil shale is problematic and expensive, and we have TONS of oil shale in the USA. It's great for plastics though.

[Chuckit]

Originally Posted by IceBreaker 

the market takes care of all, don't fret.

Uh, what? The market takes care of insulin shots and surgical masks?

[Sky Captain]

I anxiously await my Logan's Run car.

[tie]

I think IceBreaker is saying that externalities don't exist. They are just a fiction in the brains of economists, who are really all lefties (even when they're righties), and therefore shouldn't be trusted to know anything about economics.

Or something. Arguing against the irrational gets tedious sometimes, so perhaps I should just concede. "God doesn't need cell phones, so why should we?" (Heard on the radio crossing Nebraska.)

[nonhuman]

Originally Posted by ink 

Problem is, we need petroleum for more than just energy. If we suck the ground dry, how are we going to make insulin shots or surgical masks?

But have fun in your SUV in the mean time.

All you need to produce insulin is sheep.

[IceBreaker]

Originally Posted by tie 

I think IceBreaker is saying that externalities don't exist. They are just a fiction in the brains of economists, who are really all lefties (even when they're righties), and therefore shouldn't be trusted to know anything about economics.

Or something. Arguing against the irrational gets tedious sometimes, so perhaps I should just concede. "God doesn't need cell phones, so why should we?" (Heard on the radio crossing Nebraska.)

well said!

[ink]

Originally Posted by nonhuman 

All you need to produce insulin is sheep.

Hence the "shot" part. But for being partially pedantic.

[DBursey]

Originally Posted by IceBreaker 

the market takes care of all, don't fret.

And the Chinese will soon control the market! The perfect socialist segue!

[besson3c]

A *regulated* market sorts itself out. An unregulated market results in companies calling the shots, and a lot of poor/middle class people suffering until the rich are no longer willing to play along.

[medicineman]

Originally Posted by ink 

Problem is, we need petroleum for more than just energy. If we suck the ground dry, how are we going to make insulin shots or surgical masks?

But have fun in your SUV in the mean time.

Insulin isn't made from hydrocarbons. Until recently, insulin for human use, was produced from porcine and bovine insulin. Part of the problem with that was, some were allergic to those animal sources and standardization was problematic. Insulin, today, is recombinant DNA insulin, Novolin and Humulin being the two largest brands in the US, manufactured by inserting a human insulin gene into the DNA of E. coli. The new bacterial cells replicate quickly with this new DNA information making larger quantites of 'human insulin'. This is a simplistic explanation of a complex process, but I hope you get the idea.

Most other meds (and plastics), however, owe their formation to hydrocarbon sources.

[nonhuman]

Originally Posted by ink 

Hence the "shot" part. But for being partially pedantic.

Hypodermic needles existed well before the invention of plastics and other petroleum-based synthetics.

[dcmacdaddy]

Originally Posted by Chuckit 

I agree. We need to get off the Middle East crack if we want to be able to really do the right things in that area. When Bush said he wanted to focus on alternative energy sources, I thought he was finally getting on track. He seems to have forgotten about that in all the apologizing for Iraq, though.

I don't like the crack metaphor so much. It implies an all-or-nothing mentality to the issue of petroleum usage. Until technology permits the manufacture of a lot of materials from non-petroleum-based resources we will need it for some things. BUT, that doesn't mean we can't choose to reduce our petroleum usage in selective areas.

One area where I would like to see a lot more government-funded research is in the use of renewable energy sources. This article is an excellent example of that but I think there is a lot more than can be done with wind, geothermal, and tidal power. The biggest area of research needed to make this happen though is in energy-storage devices. We could produce all our energy from renewable resources but if we had no way to store it when it is not needed then such a level of production is for nought.

I would like nothing better than to abandon our interests in the MIddle East for the forseeable future. And that would be possible with a concentrated government effort in supporting research into improved renewable energy production techniques as well as storage methods.

Finally, I would like to see the government raise the insulation standards for new construction. Several years ago they actually lowered the standards so home manufacturers could reduce the amount of insulation required in new housing construction. Think about how much energy we could NOT use just by making our new homes and office buildings better insulated; It would be that much less energy we need to use in the first place.

The way to get off the hook with Middle East oil is to employ the basic reduce/re-use/recycle protocol in our energy consumption. Invest in technologies that reduce our need for oil, do a better job of employing "re-useable" energy sources, and recycle those savings back into improving the cost effectiveness of any new technologies implemented. Sure people could still drive their SUVs, but if they parked it in the drive-way of an ultra-energy efficient home that got a lot of its electricity from renewable sources we would be much further along in getting ourselves away from the need for Middle East oil.

I hope it my life-time I see a US President tell the Saudi princes to "Go f*ck themselves. We don't want or need your oil any more". Sigh! One can dream.

[Chuckit]

I didn't mean "crack" as a metaphor for all oil — only Middle East oil, which I feel it is unhealthy for us to depend on. We have other sources that aren't as much of a liability.

[dcmacdaddy]

Originally Posted by Chuckit 

I didn't mean "crack" as a metaphor for all oil — only Middle East oil, which I feel it is unhealthy for us to depend on. We have other sources that aren't as much of a liability.

Ahh. Gotcha. I agree completely.

[tie]

Originally Posted by IceBreaker 

well said!

Darn, you got me.

I'm used to my sarcastic posts being interpreted as serious arguments (which is understandable given some of the wackos around here) -- I can't believe I fell for it myself.