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Arizona bans ethnic studies - and it begins™
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hyteckit
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May 12, 2010, 02:39 PM
 
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May 12, 2010, 02:44 PM
 
But Horne, who is running for attorney general, says the program teaches Latino students that they are oppressed by white people.
Good. This class was nothing else than a self-fulfilling prophecy.

Gotta give those Latino students a reason to feel oppressed about.

-t
     
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May 12, 2010, 02:58 PM
 
But Horne, who is running for attorney general, says the program teaches Latino students that they are oppressed by white people.
Wait. Aren't you all being oppressed by a black fella at the moment?
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May 12, 2010, 03:00 PM
 
Originally Posted by turtle777 View Post
Good. This class was nothing else than a self-fulfilling prophecy.

Gotta give those Latino students a reason to feel oppressed about.

-t
Arizona is going to cancel black history month next.

History about slavery? Banned!

We can't have Blacks feeling they were someone oppressed in the past.

Come to think of it, Arizona did refused to recognized the MLK holiday until they were boycotted.
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May 12, 2010, 03:09 PM
 
Originally Posted by hyteckit View Post
Arizona is going to cancel black history month next.
Good. Maybe they can use the time to teach students how to read and write instead of filling their heads with crap.

Example: Native americans I've encountered seem to think that the white man brought war to the continent and that everything was lovely and peaceful beforehand. Like tribes weren't at war with each other. This is what these programs teach.
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May 12, 2010, 03:11 PM
 
Heaven forbid that kids are taught to be just Americans.
     
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May 12, 2010, 03:37 PM
 
Originally Posted by BadKosh View Post
Heaven forbid that kids are taught to be just Americans.
You don't think it's important for people to learn about their ethnic past?
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May 12, 2010, 03:50 PM
 
Originally Posted by BadKosh View Post
Heaven forbid that kids are taught to be just Americans.
Heaven forbid that kids are taught in English.

Oh right. Heaven doesn't care.


Heaven forbid that kids be taught about their heritage and heritage of others.

It's so wrong it must be banned.
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May 12, 2010, 03:50 PM
 
Originally Posted by olePigeon View Post
You don't think it's important for people to learn about their ethnic past?
Absolutely: Here is an example of what is being taught. YouTube - L.A. Teacher Calls for Mexican Revolt in the U.S.
Oh by the way olePideon I hope your not white. Viva La Raza ( The Race )
     
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May 12, 2010, 03:52 PM
 
Originally Posted by Doofy View Post
Example: Native americans I've encountered seem to think that the white man brought war to the continent and that everything was lovely and peaceful beforehand.
What Native Americans are you talking about? I'm part Native American, and I don't know anyone who thinks that. They do think that colonials brought more war and destruction than there ever was previously, which is true.
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May 12, 2010, 03:53 PM
 
Originally Posted by Orion27 View Post
Absolutely: Here is an example of what is being taught. YouTube - L.A. Teacher Calls for Mexican Revolt in the U.S.
Oh by the way olePideon I hope your not white. Viva La Raza ( The Race )
That's not being taught in school. It's not even a classroom.

What's next? A video of a teacher at a KKK rally?
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May 12, 2010, 03:53 PM
 
Originally Posted by olePigeon View Post
You don't think it's important for people to learn about their ethnic past?
OK then, here's the lesson for hispanics:

You're caucasian. Thus, white. Now STFU.
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May 12, 2010, 03:54 PM
 
Originally Posted by BadKosh View Post
Heaven forbid that kids are taught to be just Americans.
You're right, if we stop talking about obvious cultural differences they'll just cease to exist.

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May 12, 2010, 03:55 PM
 
Originally Posted by olePigeon View Post
What Native Americans are you talking about?
The ones I was taking with. Duh!
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May 12, 2010, 03:57 PM
 
Originally Posted by Orion27 View Post
Absolutely: Here is an example of what is being taught. YouTube - L.A. Teacher Calls for Mexican Revolt in the U.S.
You guys are picking out exceptions to the rule. Of the millions of cultural studies classes being taught, you guys have 2 or 3 examples of morons in charge.

Originally Posted by Orion27 View Post
Oh by the way olePideon I hope your not white. Viva La Raza ( The Race )
I look very white, but I'm a mutt. I'm 1/2 white (1/4 Scottish & 1/4 Ukrainian), 1/4 Jewish (German), and 1/4 Native American.
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hyteckit  (op)
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May 12, 2010, 03:58 PM
 
I wonder if Doofy has ever taking an ethnic studies class in the US, since he seems to be such an expert.
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hyteckit  (op)
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May 12, 2010, 03:59 PM
 
Isn't Orion27 black?
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May 12, 2010, 04:04 PM
 
Originally Posted by Doofy View Post
OK then, here's the lesson for hispanics:
Spanish are white, yes, but the studies apply to latinos as well, which are either Native American or at least 1/2 Spanish. Since they are largely culturally intertwined when the Spanish and Portuguese, they're often included.

There's a lot of fascinating things to learn about southern and central Native American tribes, Aztecs, Mayans, etc. For example, just recently ancient plumbing was discovered in some ancient Mayan buildings. They were the first indigenous American peoples to develop an advanced sewage system independent of any outside influence.

Most people are already familiar with their astrological calendars. However relatively advanced their culture was, it was also quite brutal and barbaric. All of these makes interesting cultural facets to study about.
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May 12, 2010, 04:08 PM
 
Originally Posted by olePigeon View Post
I look very white, but I'm a mutt. I'm 1/2 white (1/4 Scottish & 1/4 Ukrainian), 1/4 Jewish (German), and 1/4 Native American.
And this is the problem - you know your ethnic makeup (probably) down to the sixteenth. Racism only goes away when people stop thinking of themselves as "half this, half that" - until such a point, people tend to use their ethnicity as a label, which self-alienates or alienates others.

But of course, what they're not telling you is that the preservation of racism is a political thing - there's a whole industry (and some political parties) out there built up around the expectation of racism. When the expectation doesn't materialise, then hey, they have to generate some more.
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May 12, 2010, 04:12 PM
 
Originally Posted by hyteckit View Post
I wonder if Doofy has ever taking an ethnic studies class in the US, since he seems to be such an expert.
I wonder if hyteckit has ever taken a political studies class or received any kind of teaching qualification anywhere, since he seems to be such an expert.
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May 12, 2010, 04:13 PM
 
Originally Posted by hyteckit View Post
Isn't Orion27 black?
I didn't make the reference in the video to "frail white people" The UCLA "professor" did.
So are you calling the kettle black? Funny how the left ignores it's own intrinsic racism and
attempts to balkanize and divide the American people. Feed the flames much hyteckit?
     
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May 12, 2010, 04:14 PM
 
Originally Posted by Doofy View Post
And this is the problem - you know your ethnic makeup (probably) down to the sixteenth. Racism only goes away when people stop thinking of themselves as "half this, half that" - until such a point, people tend to use their ethnicity as a label, which self-alienates or alienates others.

But of course, what they're not telling you is that the preservation of racism is a political thing - there's a whole industry (and some political parties) out there built up around the expectation of racism. When the expectation doesn't materialise, then hey, they have to generate some more.
Aren't you an anarcho-anarchist who blames everything on liberals, call this pussies and lazy buggers?

And what's with the attack on Native-Americans from out of nowhere.
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May 12, 2010, 04:15 PM
 
Originally Posted by olePigeon View Post
Spanish are white, yes, but the studies apply to latinos as well, which are either Native American or at least 1/2 Spanish. Since they are largely culturally intertwined when the Spanish and Portuguese, they're often included.

There's a lot of fascinating things to learn about southern and central Native American tribes, Aztecs, Mayans, etc. For example, just recently ancient plumbing was discovered in some ancient Mayan buildings. They were the first indigenous American peoples to develop an advanced sewage system independent of any outside influence.

Most people are already familiar with their astrological calendars. However relatively advanced their culture was, it was also quite brutal and barbaric. All of these makes interesting cultural facets to study about.
So why not take that cool stuff and teach it to everyone? Don't whites want to hear about Mayan toilets? Don't blacks want to know about sacrifices to Huitzilopochtli? Don't asians want to hear about Tecumseh?
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May 12, 2010, 04:18 PM
 
Originally Posted by Orion27 View Post
I didn't make the reference in the video to "frail white people" The UCLA "professor" did.
So are you calling the kettle black? Funny how the left ignores it's own intrinsic racism and
attempts to balkanize and divide the American people. Feed the flames much hyteckit?
Eh?

So we should get rid of Black History Month and history of slavery because Malcolm X calls white people the 'white devil' and incites violence?

How does one hispanics teacher calling for violence someone an excuse to get rid of ethnic studies?

Makes no sense.


I'm asking you, should we get rid of Black History Month?
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May 12, 2010, 04:19 PM
 
Looking over the department model, I'd say it probably does foster an us versus them attitude.

That's not inherent in the subject though, it comes from things like basing it on the works of the guy who wrote Pedagogy of the Oppressed.

That doesn't seem to register to Horne. His solution, which he's offered for years now, is to terminate the program, period.

Maybe it's just a truly stunning lack of creativity on his part or something.
     
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May 12, 2010, 04:21 PM
 
Originally Posted by Doofy View Post
So why not take that cool stuff and teach it to everyone? Don't whites want to hear about Mayan toilets? Don't blacks want to know about sacrifices to Huitzilopochtli? Don't asians want to hear about Tecumseh?
There's nothing keeping your from signing up for an ethnic studies class. Cultural studies, woman studies, etc. are requirements in the California State University system. Generally that stuff is covered only briefly in a general World History class, ethnic studies is a little more specific.
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May 12, 2010, 04:22 PM
 
Originally Posted by hyteckit View Post
Aren't you an anarcho-anarchist who blames everything on liberals, call this pussies and lazy buggers?
Yes. All of these classes are designed to purposefully split the population in order to feed leftist political parties. They can't campaign on "destroying racism" if it's already destroyed.

Originally Posted by hyteckit View Post
And what's with the attack on Native-Americans from out of nowhere.
You're confusing an attack with an observation.

And that's the kind of mindset one ends up with after being dragged through the lib "everyone is racist!" mill.
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May 12, 2010, 04:23 PM
 
Originally Posted by olePigeon View Post
There's nothing keeping your from signing up for an ethnic studies class.
Chicano studies was the most boring class I took. I couldn't relate.

Still, I don't think it deserves to be banned.
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May 12, 2010, 04:26 PM
 
Originally Posted by olePigeon View Post
There's nothing keeping your from signing up for an ethnic studies class.
I don't understand the comment, sorry. I learn about what I want to learn about, when I want to learn about it. Which is a whole different ball game than people learning about stuff simply because it's related to their ethnicity. One is inherently racist, the other isn't. Keelanotaway?
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May 12, 2010, 04:28 PM
 
Originally Posted by Doofy View Post
You're confusing an attack with an observation.

And that's the kind of mindset one ends up with after being dragged through the lib "everyone is racist!" mill.
Aren't you from Great Britain? How many Native Americans have you encountered? The Native Americans I've gone to school with don't going around talking about how the 'white devil' is blamed for everything.
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May 12, 2010, 04:31 PM
 
Originally Posted by hyteckit View Post
Eh?

So we should get rid of Black History Month and history of slavery because Malcolm X calls white people the 'white devil' and incites violence?

How does one hispanics teacher calling for violence someone an excuse to get rid of ethnic studies?

Makes no sense.


I'm asking you, should we get rid of Black History Month?
Black history month makes no sense. What other ethnic group embarrasses itself with such self pity.
I work with inner city truants in a group home setting so trust me when I say racism is alive and well
in the black community. It's quite literally their ball and chain.
     
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May 12, 2010, 04:35 PM
 
Originally Posted by hyteckit View Post
Aren't you from Great Britain?
Yes.

Originally Posted by hyteckit View Post
How many Native Americans have you encountered?
A few. What's that got to do with anything?

Originally Posted by hyteckit View Post
The Native Americans I've gone to school with don't going around talking about how the 'white devil' is blamed for everything.
Perhaps not to your face.
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May 12, 2010, 04:38 PM
 
Originally Posted by Orion27 View Post
Black history month makes no sense. What other ethnic group embarrasses itself with such self pity.
I work with inner city truants in a group home setting so trust me when I say racism is alive and well
in the black community. It's quite literally their ball and chain.
Um... racism exist in all races.

I've gone to schools that have been predominately black, schools that have been predominately hispanics, and schools that have been predominately white.

I know there is a blood battle between blacks and hispanics for territory. It even lead to school riots. It had nothing to do with ethnic studies. It was about music and who was better or more bad-ass.
( Last edited by hyteckit; May 12, 2010 at 04:45 PM. )
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May 12, 2010, 04:38 PM
 
Originally Posted by Doofy View Post
I learn about what I want to learn about, when I want to learn about it. Which is a whole different ball game than people learning about stuff simply because it's related to their ethnicity.
Ethnic studies is an elective course in secondary school, it's not required. Also, in some states it isn't required for State University either, and private Universities aren't required to put it on their curriculum.

I'm trying to understand what your complaint is.
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May 12, 2010, 04:44 PM
 
Originally Posted by Doofy View Post
Yes.



A few. What's that got to do with anything?



Perhaps not to your face.
What's that got to do with anything?

Really?

You said "Example: Native americans I've encountered seem to think..." based on your "observation".

If you never or hardly ever had an encounter with Native Americans, how can we trust your 'observation'?
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May 12, 2010, 04:44 PM
 
Originally Posted by hyteckit View Post
Arizona is going to cancel black history month next.
No problem.

I always thought that Black History Month should have been paired with White Future Month, but I can live w/o those.

-t
     
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May 12, 2010, 04:44 PM
 
Originally Posted by olePigeon View Post
Ethnic studies is an elective course in secondary school, it's not required. Also, in some states it isn't required for State University either, and private Universities aren't required to put it on their curriculum.
The point is that you'll never get rid of racism until you get rid of "ethnic studies".

Mayan bathrooms? Put that in with engineering history.
Aztec sacrifices? Put that in with religious studies.
Slavery? Put that in with political history.
You get the idea.
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May 12, 2010, 04:48 PM
 
Originally Posted by Doofy View Post
The point is that you'll never get rid of racism until you get rid of "ethnic studies".

Mayan bathrooms? Put that in with engineering history.
Aztec sacrifices? Put that in with religious studies.
Slavery? Put that in with political history.
You get the idea.
You'll never get rid of Communism either until you stop teaching about it in political history classes. Gosh, life is so complicated. I wish we could just wish away every idea we don't like. That would be so much easier.

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May 12, 2010, 04:49 PM
 
Originally Posted by hyteckit View Post
What's that got to do with anything?

Really?

You said "Example: Native americans I've encountered seem to think..." based on your "observation".

If you never or hardly ever had an encounter with Native Americans, how can we trust your 'observation'?
How is this any kind of point?

If I'd never encountered native americans, why would I make the observation and include the words "native americans I've encountered"?

Is there something wrong with your comprehension skills?
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May 12, 2010, 04:51 PM
 
Originally Posted by SpaceMonkey View Post
You'll never get rid of Communism either until you stop teaching about it in political history classes. Gosh, life is so complicated.
Actually, the way to get rid of communism is to teach about it.

Does this black history month thingy include the fact that Africa invented slavery and the white man abolished it*?

(* In the western world, of course. It's still a popular pastime in Africa.)
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May 12, 2010, 04:52 PM
 
Originally Posted by Doofy View Post
How is this any kind of point?

If I'd never encountered native americans, why would I make the observation and include the words "native americans I've encountered"?

Is there something wrong with your comprehension skills?
Because you are Doofy and make up lies to suit your point.

Where did you meet those 'Native Americans'? Were they just Americans, or 'Native Americans'? How do you know if they were 'Native Americans'?

There are very few Native Americans in the US. I would assume there are even fewer Native Americans in Great Britain.
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May 12, 2010, 04:55 PM
 
Originally Posted by Doofy View Post
Actually, the way to get rid of communism is to teach about it.

Does this black history month thingy include the fact that Africa invented slavery and the white man abolished it*?

(* In the western world, of course. They still do it in Africa.)
I think the point of Black History Month is to provide a specific opportunity to discuss the history of the African diaspora. It came about originally because at the time, the subject was not really studied very much ('ethnic studies," generally, entered mainstream academia around this time during the 1960s and 1970s). The purpose is not to remind everyone whose fault slavery was.

The course of this thread makes me think that the opponents of "ethnic studies" here think that it refers to advocating for some allegedly superior black, Latino, or otherwise racial vision of history. It generally simply refers to the historical, political, and cultural study of some ethnic demographic group's experiences, which anyone of any race or ethnicity ought to be able to appreciate. I don't need to be Latino to get something of value out of a Latino studies course.

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hyteckit  (op)
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May 12, 2010, 04:59 PM
 
I thought Black History Month was about learning what contributions black people have made to our society, because they aren't well represented in history books.

But Doofy would know more since his is an expert on the US school system, ethnic studies, racism, native americans, and black history month.
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May 12, 2010, 05:01 PM
 
Originally Posted by hyteckit View Post
Where did you meet those 'Native Americans'?
Colorado.
On the Internet.
In bed.

Originally Posted by hyteckit View Post
There are very few Native Americans in the US. I would assume there are even fewer Native Americans in Great Britain.
Someone should probably point out the existence of long-distance travel and telecommunications to you, methinks.
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SpaceMonkey
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May 12, 2010, 05:01 PM
 
Originally Posted by hyteckit View Post
I thought Black History Month was about learning what contributions black people have made to our society, because they aren't well represented in history books.
Yes, that's part of what I said.

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May 12, 2010, 05:03 PM
 
Originally Posted by hyteckit View Post
I thought Black History Month was about learning what contributions black people have made to our society, because they aren't well represented in history books.

But Doofy would know more since his is an expert on the US school system, ethnic studies, racism, native americans, and black history month.
That's right, fall back to the "you're not from here so what do you know" line. Good show.
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Chongo
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May 12, 2010, 05:05 PM
 
Originally Posted by hyteckit View Post
Arizona is going to cancel black history month next.

History about slavery? Banned!

We can't have Blacks feeling they were someone oppressed in the past.

Come to think of it, Arizona did refused to recognized the MLK holiday until they were boycotted.
The boycott started because Gov. Mecham rescinded an MLK day that was unconstitutionally declared by Gov Babbitt . (1987) The NFL tried to extort us into voting yes for the MLK state holiday by threatening to pull Super Bowl XXVII if the 1990 referendum did not pass. Many people who were going to vote yes, voted no after CBS Sports leaked the story just before the election. It lost by less than 1% It easily passed in 1992. BTW, the AZ MLK day is the only one passed by a vote of the people, all the others were passed by their state legislature's.

BTW I'm a multi-generational Arizonan of Latino ancestry. (as far back as the 1610 Santa Fe settlement)
( Last edited by Chongo; May 12, 2010 at 05:13 PM. )
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hyteckit  (op)
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May 12, 2010, 05:06 PM
 
Originally Posted by Doofy View Post
That's right, fall back to the "you're not from here so what do you know" line. Good show.
Or Doofy's "I've read about it on the internet, so it makes me an expert" line.
Bush Tax Cuts == Job Killer
June 2001: 132,047,000 employed
June 2003: 129,839,000 employed
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Doofy
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May 12, 2010, 05:11 PM
 
Originally Posted by SpaceMonkey View Post
The course of this thread makes me think that the opponents of "ethnic studies" here think that it refers to advocating for some allegedly superior black, Latino, or otherwise racial vision of history.
Not me.
But what I think it does do is creates a division and implies difference. Look at the model subego linked to:

For Latino students, each of these components creates both a Latino academic identity and an enhanced level of academic proficiency.
...
This approach provides Latino students and students of color with the same quality of educational sovereignty afforded Anglo students.
Why do latino students need a "latino academic identity"? Are they subnormal and can't get through school otherwise? Why do "latino students and students of color" need what amounts to a remedial course to achieve "the same quality of educational sovereignty afforded Anglo students"?

All this just sets up a "you're special" mindset within the target demographic. Whether that's "special" as in "better" or "special" as in sitting next to hyteckit on the shorter bus, it's a form of racism. Leads to division. Not good.
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Doofy
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May 12, 2010, 05:13 PM
 
Originally Posted by hyteckit View Post
Or Doofy's "I've read about it on the internet, so it makes me an expert" line.
Just because you haven't yet left your mom's basement, it doesn't mean the rest of us haven't travelled the world.
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