[pedroperez80]

As a MAC user I'am used to the best computer user experience available around. Since 1990 i've been a hardcore MAC user, while I've used several varieties of windows in past years, no operating system comes close to what Apple has done with MAC OSX. In recent years LINUX an operating system that used to be only for Technical users has become rapidly a choice in the desktop arena, making itself as an apealing choice for normal users because of the low cost and Hardware flexibility. How Does MAC USERS see this new phenomenon?, would it ever be a usuable and friendly as MAc OS X?. How do you see distributions like Ubuntu and SUSE as a MAC users point of view?.

[outsourced]

Hi, Pedro. I'll share my recent experience with Fedora Core using KDE GUI.

I didn't realize just how easy Apple has made it for end users until I tried to install a new version of Firefox on the Linux system. The first download installer wouldn't even launch -- I finally figured out that I needed the RPM (since I don't know the command line Linux stuff yet).

Once the installer was working, I was able to install it -- with one confusing issue: where to install it. OS X makes it easy -- just select your Applications folder. However, with Linux, I had too many choices: /usr/bin; /usr/local; /bin; /usr/local/var; etc, etc.

Too confusing for a Linux newcomer like myself.

On the positive side, though, I really like the KDE customization. Eventually, I would like to setup SuSE version 10 when it is released.

Oh, and I'm not giving up OS X. There's a night/day difference in usability and the look/feel. OS X looks and feels smooth and tightly integrated. Linux (KDE/GNOME) doesn't.

[pat++]

Originally Posted by pedroperez80

As a MAC user I'am used to the best computer user experience available around. Since 1990 i've been a hardcore MAC user, while I've used several varieties of windows in past years, no operating system comes close to what Apple has done with MAC OSX. In recent years LINUX an operating system that used to be only for Technical users has become rapidly a choice in the desktop arena, making itself as an apealing choice for normal users because of the low cost and Hardware flexibility. How Does MAC USERS see this new phenomenon?, would it ever be a usuable and friendly as MAc OS X?. How do you see distributions like Ubuntu and SUSE as a MAC users point of view?.

As a long Mac user, you should know how to write Mac (don't use capital letters, MAC is the physical address of a network card).

Linux will never ever be as nice and user friendly as Mac OS X. Whatever you say, Linux is made by programmers for programmers...

[Gavin]

For someone using Linux part of the fun is the challenge of getting it working. There is no incentive to give programs the ease of use and polish you see with the Mac or even Windows.

People recognize that the differences between linux distributions are big roadblocks to ease of use and consistency, and there are some efforts to remove some of them. Like the idea of common linux desktop so projects like KDE and GNOME will put things in the same place, menu items for instance. And making the file system more standard which will make installing software less of a hassle.

The problem is they have to fight (with each other) to even get these simple, general things done. In fact many programmers scorn "being forced" to implement some of the things that make a system easy to use. Things that are mandatory on a mac, like putting the settings be under the application menu, are just a matter of taste in linux. If the way drag and drop works in one code library isn't to one programmer's liking they will just write another; then maybe the two ways don't work with each other, so while two programs have drag and drop they can't drag and drop to each other. So even programs written for gnome don't all play ball. (this is actually driving me nuts on my brand new system I've been playing with - cut and paste still doesn't work universally, even among gnome apps written by the gnome project)

There are just too many people doing things their own way for linux to ever be as polished as the Mac. On the other hand that is its greatest strength. All that experimentation leads to things like CUPS which runs the printing system on OS X. I think it will slowly get better but it will never be as slick.

[Sven G]

I'd have a look at this website: http://plasma.kde.org.

KDE 4 is very promising, indeed, IMHO.

So, slowly, Linux is really becoming more and more similar to OS X...

[tracemhunter]

i do agree that linux is kind of fun and challenging and i enjoy using it whenever everything works, but if i am in a hurry to install something and it has issues i get pretty pissed.

[WitchKing]

I am a long time linux user. I have used many, many linux distributions. Enough to fill a 200 CD binder without mention of the distro cds I that were so crappy I just threw out. My distro of choice is Slackware. It is a power user distribution. You have to like being at the command line to truly enjoy Slackware.

Like any other operating system, you need to take time to learn it before you can actually feel comfortable with it. Granted, Linux has a steeper learning curve than say Windows, or Mac. The reason it is so steep is because of what you do with it. If you had to compile your own software (RPMs are for the birds!) in Windows or Mac, then most people would be just as lost with those operating systems as they are with Linux. Actually, probably worse off because of a lack of good documentation!

Just like anything else, with enough time, Linux is easy to master. I am extremely confortable with the linux environment. I know where all the libraries are, all the config files.

Linux was my bridge to Macs. When Mac OS X was in development, I was extremely curious because it had a BSD core. As a result, I made the switch over. It was extremely easy to do. The reason I did is because Mac OS X offered me a much more mature GUI environment while still preserving it's beautiful innards! Best part, I still use my linux boxes just as much or more than my mac applications. Don't need to be sitting in font of them to use em...

[CaptainHaddock]

Linux was also my bridge to Macs.

I used it for at least six months while I was looking for an alternative to Windows. I found it to be faster than Windows and a lot more secure, with some interesting features here and there. It doesn't come close to OS X, though.

1. Linux, whether you're using KDE or Gnome, is just full of rough edges. Around every corner is a broken dialogue box, jagged fonts, or a usability problem.

2. Installing applications is 10 times harder. There are thousands of distributions and distro versions out there, and you have to find just the right installer for your system, and hope it was built properly (often they aren't). Or you can cross your fingers and install from source code (which fails at least half the time).

(Yes, the hardcore users claim APT or URPMI is the easiest thing ever, but they're lying.)

3. Hardware support is problematic, even when the drivers are present. For example, you can't get an HP printer-scanner to work in Mandrake/Mandriva even though the OS has drivers, because the print system is screwed up and no one has bothered fixing it in any of the last 5 major upgrades.

4. No desktop unity - you don't get any of the drag-and-drop goodness or the universal undo of OS X. Heck, even copy and paste don't work properly between applications.

I really like Linux and I hope it takes off. I think an inspired group of developers could write a new GUI and application system for Linux (actually, OS X-like app installers exist) within a year or so, and turn it into a Windows competitor.

[nJm]

What is the easiest Linux I could install on a PPC601 (Powermac 7200)? I've never used Linux before and would like to give it a go but the only computer I've got that I'm willing to try it out on is my old 7200/120.

Thanks.

[Partisan01]

I was also a Linux user before I came to the Mac world. I used Linux as my desktop for about 4 years until I got fed up with all of the configuration problems. I had a Mac a lot of the time, I just fooled around with it, and never felt it had the same power as Linux. What did it for me was OS X, I liked the unix underpinnings, and the nice GUI on top. I'm sold now, I'd rather spend my time working around the house then spending an entire night trying to get my digital camera to work (for the record it took me months to get my camera working a few years ago).

Anyways back on topic, Linux is a great alternative. Pretty much everything you can do on a Mac there is a Linux version. I know the GUI stuff has improved over the last two years and I'm sure there isn't as much of a learning curve as there was before. If you're looking to try Linux on a Mac look at YellowDog. I've also used OpenBSD on a bunch of Macs, it's more unix-like. If you're still looking for another alternative check out NetBSD, I've had great success with older Macs and NetBSD. YMMV

[Xserve@home]

I too, came from Linux to the Mac. I was originally a windows user but got sick of it around win2k.

I started with Linux Mandrake and ended up with Debian. Debian still remains my favorite flavor of Linux but installing it is not for the faint of heart. It puts certain things in different places than Red Hat, for example my CD ROM drive was /dev/cdrom, and user accounts are handled a little differently.

After Debian I went to OS 9 (loved it) and then to OS X (10.1.) The UNIX-y bits of OS X didn't really satisfy me until Panther came out. Fink was a God-send (^:

Linux has tried to make things easier, but for now it's still more difficult to use than OS X. It simply cannot match OS Xs simplicity and ease of use. Linux is still my second OS choice, and M$ is not even on my list.

[bluedog]

Originally Posted by nJm

What is the easiest Linux I could install on a PPC601 (Powermac 7200)? I've never used Linux before and would like to give it a go but the only computer I've got that I'm willing to try it out on is my old 7200/120.

Thanks.

While Linux runs on older hardware, many distributions and primarily the newer ones that are easier to use due to longer development and refinement of packages included require newer hardware.

If you are looking for something that is easy to install and experiment with, I recommend the YellowDogLinux distributions for PPC. You mention a 601 PPC, and the 7200 is on some hardware that will be problematic for most other distributions or at least more difficult to install.

I believe this model contains the Nubus technology for expansion cards and such. This was a very difficult process to install on this hardware in the past. There were easier ways to get it installed before this hardware became less useful (faster machines). You'll have to look up the proper way to install Linux on this hardware.

It may be easier for you to find a cheap used PC box to install on as the hardware you have could be considered 'exotic/obsolete' for most uses. It would definitely be slow and the video display in particular won't handle X-Windows very well. You would be better served from a cheap/cheap PC for running linux rather than the machine you have.

OR, you could buy an external HD and dual boot your current machine for getting a feeling with Linux.

[nJm]

The 7200 is one of the first PCI PowerMacs. It has a 120mhz PPC601 CPU, 1mb video (yuk!) and at the moment only 32mb of ram. After doing a bit of reading it sounds like YellowDog 2.3 works fine (article on www.lowendmac.com). I might give it a go, got nothing to lose as this computer has just been sitting out in the garage for a year or two.

[Gavin]

I had yellowdog running on a 7200. Should work fine as a file server. good luck running something like gnome though.