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ph0ust · Jun 20, 2005, 06:23 PM

hi all. i am looking at getting a pb soon and had a question about the benefits of upgrading the video card (on the 15", 1.67ghz model). will i see any difference? i don't have any plans to use an external monitor, but i will be doing image work on the laptop- photoshop for big digital photos and whatnot. will i get a boost in image rendering and all with this better graphics card? i will load up the ram and all too, so that will be taken care of. also, i don't play any games.

thanks.

asodamiac · Jun 20, 2005, 06:47 PM

if youre going to be using photoshop a lot, then the 9700 upgrade would be beneficial. never hurts to have more than you need.

Dinan · Jun 21, 2005, 04:53 AM

I went ahead and upgraded my video ram with the state of mind that it'd be worth it in the future since I plan on keeping this for a good 4 years.

jokarak · Jun 21, 2005, 11:32 AM

I'm not a 100% sure, but I believe that w/ the 128M VRAM, you get to see the cool dashboard ripple effects. I don't think there would be a great advantage in Photoshop - it would be better to have more RAM than VRAM in that case, specially if you are not going to hook the PB to an external monitor.

Another place where you'll definitely notice a difference is in games, if that is your cup of tea. I'm running WOW on my PB 15" 128M VRAM, and it looks great, w/ most features turned all the way up.

One final consideration is that you can't upgrade up to 128 VRAM once you have your notebook (ok, I'm sure somebody out there has/will have a way to do it, but it won't easy for the average user to do), so if eventually you change your mind about an external monitor or your needs change, you might regret not having upgraded the video memory. Of course, it also depends on how long you plan to hold onto your PB.

Sakino · Jun 21, 2005, 11:35 AM

Originally Posted by jokarak

Another place where you'll definitely notice a difference is in games, if that is your cup of tea. I'm running WOW on my PB 15" 128M VRAM, and it looks great, w/ most features turned all the way up.

Yeah it may look good, but what is your FPS running at?

iREZ · Jun 21, 2005, 12:28 PM

i dont really think photoshop needs more than 64mb of VRAM to tell ya the truth, but the 128mb upgrade is justifiable with every new OS using more n more of it.

jokarak · Jun 21, 2005, 12:43 PM

Originally Posted by Sakino

Yeah it may look good, but what is your FPS running at?

You know, I'm not really sure - haven't checked. It does feel smooth, animations look nice, definitely playable, speciall considering that WOW is not really an action game (it might be an issue in PVP). What is most noticeable and hampering to gameplay is the lag: I've noticed "deja vu" when someone runs past you quickly (usually on a mount) - i.e. you see the person going past you, disappear, reappear again a bit in front of you and move again; there is also horrible lag in crowded places (Ironforge by the Auction House is terrible). I'll check the FPS at home tonight.

spiff72 · Jun 21, 2005, 07:33 PM

Originally Posted by jokarak

I'm not a 100% sure, but I believe that w/ the 128M VRAM, you get to see the cool dashboard ripple effects.

I am pretty sure that the 64MB version of the 9700 Radeon Mobility is still supports the dashboard ripple effect (my wife's does, at least).

jokarak · Jun 21, 2005, 07:37 PM

My bad. A friend of mine w/ an older 15" PB said that the ripple effect didn't work on his laptop...I thought his PB had 64M VRAM, but I guess I'm wrong.

Luca Rescigno · Jun 21, 2005, 08:01 PM

Okay, let me set a few things straight. Photoshop doesn't use the graphics card at all, so upgrading it from 64 MB to 128 MB won't show you any benefit at all there. Dashboard's ripple effect is a function of the video card itself, not the amount of VRAM, so you'll see that whether you get the upgrade or not.

VRAM is just that... RAM. Like system RAM, having more will help, but it doesn't affect your actual functionality at all. Unlike system RAM, having more VRAM will not really help a whole lot in most areas. The only areas where you can even hope to get an improvement are those that are graphically intense - Quartz Extreme/CoreImage, games, and certain graphics-dependent apps like Motion. Even then, the amount of VRAM doesn't have a whole lot to do with performance as long as you have enough, and 64 MB is usually enough. 128 MB is almost always enough. (For the record, 32 MB is NOT enough... hint hint Apple?????

)

Older 15" PowerBooks did come with 64 MB of VRAM, but they used a Radeon 9000 GPU, which doesn't support the real-time rendering of CoreImage effects.

spiff72 · Jun 21, 2005, 11:34 PM

Originally Posted by Luca Rescigno

Okay, let me set a few things straight. Photoshop doesn't use the graphics card at all, so upgrading it from 64 MB to 128 MB won't show you any benefit at all there. Dashboard's ripple effect is a function of the video card itself, not the amount of VRAM, so you'll see that whether you get the upgrade or not.

Not to nitpick, but Photoshop doesn't use the graphics card at all? I don't think that is a fair statement, either. Wouldn't any program that displays anything on the screen technically use the videocard?

But also, doesn't core image include some functions that can be used by Photoshop (some of the blurs and other filters, for example)? These functions take advantage of the graphics processor, don't they?

fedeb · Jun 22, 2005, 01:23 AM

I am about to order the PB 1.67 from amazon and it only comes with 64 Mb of VRAM.
Is it possible to upgrade it after buying an extra 64 Mb or do I have to order it from Apple's website? (amazon has a $150 rebate, plus no tax)

asodamiac · Jun 22, 2005, 02:20 AM

Originally Posted by jokarak

...One final consideration is that you can't upgrade up to 128 VRAM once you have your notebook (ok, I'm sure somebody out there has/will have a way to do it, but it won't easy for the average user to do), so if eventually you change your mind about an external monitor or your needs change, you might regret not having upgraded the video memory. Of course, it also depends on how long you plan to hold onto your PB.

if thats true.. not sure if you can upgrade the vram later on?

but a $150 rebate and no tax will save you a lot of money. i paid over $200 on taxes alone!

spiff72 · Jun 22, 2005, 10:00 AM

Originally Posted by fedeb

I am about to order the PB 1.67 from amazon and it only comes with 64 Mb of VRAM.
Is it possible to upgrade it after buying an extra 64 Mb or do I have to order it from Apple's website? (amazon has a $150 rebate, plus no tax)

I think that the only way to get 128MB VRAM from Amazon is to buy the 17". It comes standard with 128MB, while all of the other PB's require a build-to-order from Apple if you want the upgraded graphics.

I am also pretty sure that upgrading to 128MB yourself is NOT an option.

iREZ · Jun 22, 2005, 11:30 AM

you can not upgrade the VRAM after purchase. photoshop uses the VRAM but it's not crucial that you need 128mb, 64mb will do (it's only a 2d application). you will get core image functionality with any of the new powerbooks (12", 15" and 17"). the only place to get the upgraded VRAM is Apple (and you might be able to upgrade through smalldog.com, but don't quote me on that).

jokarak · Jun 27, 2005, 11:06 AM

Originally Posted by Sakino

Yeah it may look good, but what is your FPS running at?

Finally figured out how to check FPS in WOW

It actually is nothing to write home about, it looks like I'm averaging 17FPS in regular wilderness areas and villages, a lot higher inside dungeons, and of course, bogs down a lot in more crowded locations.

TailsToo · Jun 27, 2005, 08:11 PM

I got the 128MB VRAM version, but only because I would be upset if I needed it for something later. 95% of the time, it really doesn't make any difference.