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MindFad · Oct 30, 2002, 04:18 PM

Well?

Currently, Jaguar has a *snappy* factor of 6.5 for me, on a scale of 1-10.

I'm guessing the next *snappy* factor will be around 7.5-8.

Anyone care share their *snappiness* predictions? Anyone testing newer builds now and care to do a little NDA-breaking?

pilauh · Oct 30, 2002, 04:37 PM

"snappy" as in Spinal Tap : I put it on eleven !

Adam Betts · Oct 30, 2002, 04:38 PM

Beware, don't over-hype yourself so much or you will be pretty disappointed with Panther

I guess speed won't be their priority job anymore.

But of course, I would love to see more "snappiness" in future release

I'd say we'll see around 3-10% improvement in Panther.

Leia Shoots Like a Girl · Oct 30, 2002, 04:40 PM

I'm going to kill you!

appledude83 · Oct 30, 2002, 04:53 PM

I was happy with the "snappyness" factor on 10.1, so I'm really happy with it now on 10.2. It's probably a 8 or 9 on my scale.

Hi I'm Mike · Oct 30, 2002, 05:04 PM

my snap count is at a 3 so it is probably just my computer that is lacking in the snappiness. if i had a better computer i could let you know how much snappier jag is to me.

MindFad · Oct 30, 2002, 05:07 PM

I'm going to retract my previous Jaguar *snappy* factor and up it to 7, and hoping for an 8-8.5 for the next installment.

My scale is not a Marshall scale -- it does not go to eleven!

Eug · Oct 30, 2002, 05:35 PM

Originally posted by Leia Shoots Like a Girl:
I'm going to kill you!

Leia has snapped!

I'd put my Mac at a Snappiness Factor (SF) of 4, but much of that has to do with my iBook 600 with Rage Mobility and 4200 rpm drive. My limited experience with older G4 desktops puts the SF at about 7.

Anomalous · Oct 30, 2002, 05:40 PM

On my iMac DV, 10.1 had a snappiness factor of about 4.5 and Jaguar has a snappiness factor of 5. Since 10.2 was a small improvement in speed, I would guess that Panther won't be a huge improvement either.

chris v · Oct 30, 2002, 05:56 PM

They need to squash some longstanding bugs, for once. There's interface probs lingering from 10.0, like open/save dialogs, that are just getting ignored.

Add'l. snappiness will probably be pretty minor from here on out, now that we've gotten 10.2. Bloat will start to set back in soon.

CV

clarkgoble · Oct 30, 2002, 06:10 PM

I don't think I'd call it bloat. However I do wish they'd unify the Carbon and Cocoa calls a little more so that Carbon apps can call some of those Cocoa only things. (i.e. services, a consistent open/close dialog, etc.) They've been moving in this direction. For instance drawers are now callable in Carbon. But a lot more needs done.

There are also still a lot of "minor" issues, such as a safe shutdown for the Unix half. I think some other fixes, such as the Alias - Sym Link inconsistencies need fixed.

The big thing which I hope for but don't expect is an updated file system. That would probably give us a lot more meta-data and likely a speed increase as well. That would result in "snappier" behavior as well.

Other than that the big wishlist I think most have for snappiness isn't with OSX itself, but with all of Apple's applications. Some of the new ones desparately need 2.0 status. (i.e. iChat and iCal) Others haven't been updated for some time (iDVD, iMovie). Finally Appleworks really needs a serious update that makes use of OSX. It's ridiculous that Apple's own office software is still primarily a poor OS9 port.

OreoCookie · Oct 30, 2002, 06:19 PM

OS X gets a five on my scale.

Will be happy with up-to-date CPU technology.

brainchild2b · Oct 30, 2002, 06:36 PM

not as snappy as windows XP that's for sure ;-P

stew · Oct 30, 2002, 06:40 PM

I just want the three buttons that say "don't lag behind when user is typing", "Rage128 is not a slow chip, so I'll use all of its acceleration" and "don't do superflouos compositing".

Justin W. Williams · Oct 30, 2002, 07:30 PM

I thought snappy was added to the banned word list. grrrr.

MindFad · Oct 30, 2002, 08:15 PM

Originally posted by Justin W. Williams:
I thought snappy was added to the banned word list. grrrr.

mitchell_pgh · Oct 30, 2002, 08:29 PM

I hope to see a 10.2.2 fix some of the issues I still have (FTP, Unix Issues, etc.) I bet 10.3 will be 4%-5% faster, but you need to remember that Apple is now banking on new IBM chips that are a year away.

milhous · Oct 30, 2002, 08:56 PM

That "s word" makes me cringe. It's awful. Nevertheless, I agree with some of you. Major bugs need to be squashed, period. Also the ability to customize the GUI to a certain extent would be most appreciated. Sure, built-in theme management would be nice, but only if they could give users some latitude on how they want their UI to operatre would be fantastic. Things like changing the blasted font size of the menus and turning off dock minimization effects for those who don't need it and things like that would go a long way. Doing so tells people that Apple gives users options and choices on how they wish to use their computers and make it more enjoyable. Small things like what I mentioned can go a long way in making OS X much better. Choice is the key word, folks.

mrwalker · Oct 30, 2002, 09:30 PM

10.2.1 on my 450 cube has a snap factor of around 3. My 667 DVI powerbook has been away for repair, and I can report on return it's snap factor is around cube squared.

I don't expect 10.2.2 to change things too much, but a snap-factor of 10, or the mythical 11 isn't unreachable.

-mrwalker

Hi I'm Ben · Oct 30, 2002, 09:34 PM

buy a new mac. Jag will feel much better.

It's not like people installed XP on their 4 year old machines and thought "WOW"

infact, they're still using 98. Why don't you take a hint.

If you don't like it, use 9 and stop complaining about speed so much. I'm gonna go buy a new video card, maybe a dual processor upgrade card for my cube.

I played with the new macs at the apple store a lot, they do feel "snappy"

eno · Oct 30, 2002, 09:41 PM

Originally posted by Adam Betts:
Beware, don't over-hype yourself so much or you will be pretty disappointed with Panther I guess speed won't be their priority job anymore.

But of course, I would love to see more "snappiness" in future release I'd say we'll see around 3-10% improvement in Panther.

Agreed: my money is on 3-5% though.

Guy Incognito · Oct 30, 2002, 10:40 PM

10.3 Panther is rumored to have all debug code removed for the first time ever.

They tried Altivec enhancements on the debug code...it gave some nice results...but they realized that removing it altogether gave even better results.

MindFad · Oct 30, 2002, 11:04 PM

Originally posted by Guy Incognito:
10.3 Panther is rumored to have all debug code removed for the first time ever.

They tried Altivec enhancements on the debug code...it gave some nice results...but they realized that removing it altogether gave even better results.

And I got everyone to start saying "snappy factor."

Seriously, though, I think we'll see in a small increase in overall speed, maybe even almost 9-ish speed. I, of course, want my machine to scroll like in Photoshop like it did in 9, as well as browsers. Scrolling was sped up in Jag, but I want one more notch up.

Sorry for all the "snappy" nonsense.

I knew it would piss everyone off.

Oh, and if you'd like to give me the money to just "go buy another Mac," that's fine. And Windows XP is not Mac OS X. By the way.

mikemako · 11:57 PM

I'd say that the system has a S.F. of 6.18 if averaged.

windows maximizing once button clicked: 9
dragging windows quickly around the screen: 9
menu & dock responsiveness: 8
browsing the internet: 8
moving files to different folders: 7
windows minimizing once button clicked: 6
login box responding once login button clicked: 6
windows closing once button clicked: 5
login box responding once "Enter" is pressed: 4
desktop showing downloaded files: 4
resizing windows: 2

my thoughts: Mac OS X 10.3 will increase the S.F. to 7.5

G4 533DP 1.2Gb Memory Mac OS X 10.2.1

sodamnregistered2 · Oct 31, 2002, 03:22 AM

Originally posted by MindFad:
Well?

Currently, Jaguar has a *snappy* factor of 6.5 for me, on a scale of 1-10.

I give Jag a 3. I wait for stuff frequently, see the ball a lot, go into the terminal to kill -9 pid a lot. The apps are what need more help now. Almost everything I use sucks in some way:

AI - sluggish and crashes
Pshop - sluggish and crashes
C4d 7.3 - crappy OpenGL
Mozilla - crashes
ie - crashes
Eudora - crashes
java applets - total suck

Good Apps:
Toast
Dreamweaver - suprisingly stable

This is an opinion formed on 3 different machines.

NathanA · Oct 31, 2002, 04:11 AM

Originally posted by Guy Incognito:

They tried Altivec enhancements on the debug code...it gave some nice results...but they realized that removing it altogether gave even better results.

Wha?

Why would anyone spend any time trying to vectorize debug code? How would you even do that? I mean can you even make vectorized debug code? What operation would you apply to aligned sets of data in a debug code scenario?

-Nathan

Siddhartha · Oct 31, 2002, 04:42 AM

I'm perfectly happy with my snappy. My iBook works just fine, no complaints. It slows down at certain times, but i'm a patient boy. But, don't listen to me, i'm just a troll.

ShotgunEd · Oct 31, 2002, 05:49 AM

Originally posted by Siddhartha:
I'm perfectly happy with my snappy. My iBook works just fine, no complaints. It slows down at certain times, but i'm a patient boy. But, don't listen to me, i'm just a troll.

Roger that, my iBook 500 is motoring away happily under 10.2. It starts to lag when i'm compiling, ripping an mp3 in iTunes, chatting in xChat and browsing all at once, but I only get a chance to do that a couple of times a week.
Snappiness factor of 6 I'd say.

OreoCookie · Oct 31, 2002, 06:13 AM

Originally posted by Eug:

Leia has snapped!

I'd put my Mac at a Snappiness Factor (SF) of 4, but much of that has to do with my iBook 600 with Rage Mobility and 4200 rpm drive. My limited experience with older G4 desktops puts the SF at about 7.

Ditto.

TheTraveller · Oct 31, 2002, 06:33 AM

I'd put my Titanium 800 at a snappy-factor of about 7. Rather than truly snappy, I'd characterize it, as, oh...fluid. :-)

I expect no more increases in snappiness from the OS for a while. I think we'll get more snappiness from improved hardware before we get much from software. And, by then, the hardware will have improved to such an extent that the software improvements will not be as remarkable.

Of course, this is just wild speculation, and I could easily be wrong. But my experience tells me: don't hold your breath.

Simon · Oct 31, 2002, 06:53 AM

I have some trouble with the scale here. Does a SF of 10 mean no waiting ever? Don't think that's possible.

If a SF of 10 means it's like OS 9 than I can assure you guys that I'm proud to be the first poster of a SF 10 in this thread. Not on my old iMac DV+ (that's more like a 6) but on my new dual 867. Honestly, I can't feel a difference anymore between 10.2.1 and 9.2.2 on this machine.

gadster · Oct 31, 2002, 06:59 AM

Snappy as a croc with a Steve Irwin on its back?

brainchild2b · Oct 31, 2002, 10:57 AM

Actually windows XP on a slower machine than my OS X box is FASTER. New powermac 2 year old intel box.

Go figure :-(

clarkgoble · Oct 31, 2002, 01:43 PM

Both XP and OSX are very RAM hungry. I think that 3/4 of a gig are an absolute minimum and really 1 gig is what you ought to have. If you don't have that much they simply will not perform well.

eddiecatflap · Oct 31, 2002, 02:06 PM

..i used 10.1.5 on a g4/933 and was VERY impressed ..

..so god knows how much quicker it can get !

Sheep · Oct 31, 2002, 03:37 PM

I'd say Jaguar gets a SF of 5 on my iBook 700 (640RAM) and a 7 on the iMac G4 800 (768RAM, 15').

There is a huge speed increase when using a G4.
Oh ya and I'd say 10.1.5 gets a 2 on an iMac Rev. A (160RAM)

But what I would like to see is that Apple gets the size of the VM down.
The size is about 1.6GB on both machines when using 5 apps (IE, Entourage, iTunes, ICQ and Terminal).

czeky · Oct 31, 2002, 04:09 PM

I know, menu snappyness will be much better, when mwnu blinking can be turned off like in OS 9, I can remember the first time "WOW!" in OS 9 when I turned off menu blinking..If someone knows a hack to disable menu blinking I will be soooo lucky..