[Oisín]

I think the idea comes mostly from the fact that Macs were the pioneer machines in the whole rounded-corners, white finish design. That made them look very plasticy to some, and that apparently meant that they were just toys. I still hear many people describing MacBooks as very nice machines, but they don’t want to buy them because they think they look like make-believe computers, something you’d give a five-year-old to play pretend-computer with.

Of course, there are also some who just say it because they think Apple’s OSes are useless hacks that can’t connect to the Internet, etc. But they’re not important, ’cause they’re just generally talking out of their arses anyway.

[analogika]

That actually stems back to the time when "serious" computers were all about programming and text and stuff, while the Mac was operated by people pointing at little pictures.

[Strupat]

Apple designers and developers are aiming at younger people who want to play and make movies and music. Older computer users don't want to learn a new system and don't care at all about what a computer looks like. When they see something that looks like it had more money put into the design than anything else, and their machines look and sound like an air conditioner, they are very sceptical to the usefullness of such "pretty" computers.

[Apfhex]

Originally Posted by Oisín

I think the idea comes mostly from the fact that Macs were the pioneer machines in the whole rounded-corners, white finish design. That made them look very plasticy to some, and that apparently meant that they were just toys. I still hear many people describing MacBooks as very nice machines, but they don’t want to buy them because they think they look like make-believe computers, something you’d give a five-year-old to play pretend-computer with.

That, and the look of OS X 10.0 with all of it's gum drops and lollipops (seriously, it was pretty toy-ish). Also how Apple always talks about how easy and fun Macs are. I think Apple's hardware and software today is very sleek and pro looking though. Maybe people expect computers to look totally ugly and utilitarian and Macs are such a contrast to that.


I once had some PC users ask me, while I was using my old Performa 6200 or something,
"So what version of Windows is this?"
"Umm, it's a Mac."
*blank stares*
"It runs MacOS. Not Windows."
"You should get Windows."

[Gossamer]

Originally Posted by chris v

Show me a Mac with a virus.

A couple months ago someone managed to slip an IRC trojan or something onto one of the Macs running 10.3.9 on the network I help administer. We had to fix that pretty quick. I think there's only one or two left to upgrade to Tiger, mostly computers used by temp help.
So they're not impervious. But if you have some goal in mind when creating malware, you're obviously going to target PCs. If you want to do it for the fun of it, you're target a Mac. Kind of like the MacBook 'wireless hack' scandal. The guy openly admitted he was frustrated with the 'Mac user smugness' so he used a third party wireless card AND drivers and claimed he'd hacked the MacBook.

[draggerman11]

Originally Posted by Strupat

Apple designers and developers are aiming at younger people who want to play and make movies and music.

And you wonder why you get sarcastic and mean-toned replied, Strupat, when you make these presumptuous and false characterizations.

Apple certainly does not only target younger people who want to "play" and, as you imply, make movies and music like they are children. If this were so, a huge part of Mac sales would not go to professionals involved in editing video and in composing music.

Older computer users don't want to learn a new system

Their loss.

and don't care at all about what a computer looks like.

What, does the "I want what I buy to look good" gene suddenly die when people get over 40? Does a new gene, the "I want what I buy to look like pieces of crap" gene suddenly turn on?

I don't buy your argument. How something looks is directly related to quality. If a company is not even interested enough in making their product look good, then there is little chance that the product is of a high caliber and worth buying. You and every other consumer uses this same concept when buying things all the time, whether you care to admit it or not.

Even if this were true, however, that does not mean the good looks (I am glad you grant that) of Macs would deter them -- at worst, it would merely be a neutral factor, so your argument fails again.

But you continue with this gem...

When they see something that looks like it had more money put into the design than anything else,

UH, is there something WRONG with putting money into the design of something? Are Yugos suddenly better than BMWs because they put less money into the design of their cars? Are you insane?

If you simply meant "...had more money put into the looks than anything else," have you even looked at what is included with a Mac? Top end processors, amazing build quality, OS X (did you think OS X was cheap in comparison to XP? Are we talking about two different OSes here?), iLife (you know, the suite of applications that comes free, and would cost 150+ dollars for something similar but inferior on Windows), the built in iSights in iMac, Macbook, and Macbook Pro, the included remote for Front Row in all three plus the Mac Mini, Wi-Fi and bluetooth built into all of their computers except the mac Pro...?

Yeah, gosh, Apple sure put all of the money into looks and nothing else. Right.

and their machines look and sound like an air conditioner, they are very sceptical to the usefullness of such "pretty" computers.

Why would their Windows PCs sounding like a wind tunnel make them skeptical of Macs? lol. Or if you meant that Macs sound like "air conditioners," then I am not sure what Macs you have used; all I have used have been silent in comparison to the Compaq and HP computers I have owned in the past (before December 2005).

So to sum up, Strupat, I'm not sure what the hell you're thinking, but unfortunately, you justify the stereotypical title of this thread rather well: PC people can be so annoying sometimes.

[Strupat]

Whoa, relax buddy. I know a lot of older people that don't want to shell out $20 for a new ethernet card, let alone a whole new computer. Older people are from a different generation, a generation which was brought up with far less money than our very lucky generation. I was just trying to explain why older people don't usually buy Macs, and that is because they don't care to learn anything new. How can you blame them, they just want to get their daily work done and come home.

As for the air conditioner remark, I meant that their PC is probably old and dusty and loud (like an air conditioner), so that's what they think a computer is supposed to look and sound like. And they may be skeptical of an aesthetically pleasing computer because they don't know that it is actually a good computer inside.

My post was not intended to be an attack on a Mac. You really need to relax.

[draggerman11]

Originally Posted by Strupat

My post was not intended to be an attack on a Mac. You really need to relax.

BS. Your arguments were 1. that Apple targets "younger people" whose only intentions are to "play" and make movies and music, and 2. that Apple puts most of their money into the looks rather than the function of the computer. Not an attack? If you say so. Either way, it was an ignorance-filled post.

As far as why older folks do not want to switch, that's all well and fine, but besides not wanting to learn a new OS, your reasoning was totally useless.

[Strupat]

I don't have the energy to show you my point again. You aren't going to listen anyway.

[draggerman11]

Originally Posted by Strupat

As for the air conditioner remark, I meant that their PC is probably old and dusty and loud (like an air conditioner), so that's what they think a computer is supposed to look and sound like. And they may be skeptical of an aesthetically pleasing computer because they don't know that it is actually a good computer inside.

I understand what you are saying here. The wording in your original post could have been better.

Regardless, I think you are underestimating the intelligence of older adults in knowing that their computer doesn't have to be ugly and sound like a wind tunnel to be a "good computer inside."

[USB HUB]

Originally Posted by draggerman11

2. that Apple puts most of their money into the looks rather than the function of the computer.

Excuse me? Did you jest say that Macs are made to look good rather than function welll? YOU ARE RETARED! This is Bulls*** , that is the most ignorant statement ever ! Apple puts A LOT OF MONEY into the computer hardware and OS, much more than microsoft. Why do you think Mac OS X works so well? or that the hardware works so well with the OS? I am very angry at you and your complete lack of a brain.

please ban him ghporter or another mod

[draggerman11]

:rollseyes: No, I didn't say that. Strupat apparently said that older people think that about Apple.

[USB HUB]

Originally Posted by draggerman11

:rollseyes: No, I didn't say that. Strupat apparently said that older people think that about Apple.

my bad. but still he's not bashing Apple he's stateing the old PC users point of veiw.

[draggerman11]

Originally Posted by USB HUB

my bad. but still he's not bashing Apple he's stateing the old PC users point of veiw.

Yeah. I read it wrong on first pass.

I'm sorry for responding to your post without seeing your intent, Strupat. I still think you're wrong, but I see what you were trying to say, and it was not what I had originally thought it was.

[ghporter]

There's this stupid attitude about Macs that I've never understood: "Who needs all that plastic and styling and crap? Why can't you just use a solid, sensible machine? One that's cheap and easy to replace?" Yeah, right. And why don't we go back to supplying our input on punched cards while we're at it. Ever seen a computer that uses punched cards? No thanks-I don't have an aircraft hangar handy to install one of those in.

Apple breaks ground with a lot of things, and styling is just one of them. I was quite impressed with the guts of the G3 Mac desktop-that cool plastic styling is both substantial and robust, and the real hardware inside is great! Compared to similar sized PC chasis, it's a dream-but so many PC people never really look under their own hoods to see the mess you have to deal with, so they don't bother to look past the shiny plastic (or brushed metal and retro ventilation holes on the G5 Power Mac) to see the real machinery-and how advanced it really is.

[seanc]

Originally Posted by ghporter

There's this stupid attitude about Macs that I've never understood: "Who needs all that plastic and styling and crap? Why can't you just use a solid, sensible machine? One that's cheap and easy to replace?" Yeah, right. And why don't we go back to supplying our input on punched cards while we're at it. Ever seen a computer that uses punched cards? No thanks-I don't have an aircraft hangar handy to install one of those in.

Apple breaks ground with a lot of things, and styling is just one of them. I was quite impressed with the guts of the G3 Mac desktop-that cool plastic styling is both substantial and robust, and the real hardware inside is great! Compared to similar sized PC chasis, it's a dream-but so many PC people never really look under their own hoods to see the mess you have to deal with, so they don't bother to look past the shiny plastic (or brushed metal and retro ventilation holes on the G5 Power Mac) to see the real machinery-and how advanced it really is.

IMO it's only custom PCs (like mine) that have bad internal layouts. The two different Dells i've worked on, (Dimension 5150 & 8400) have been quite good. I don't like the 8400 though because the case un-hinges into a funny L shape and it's awkward.

[Gossamer]

Originally Posted by seanc

IMO it's only custom PCs (like mine) that have bad internal layouts. The two different Dells i've worked on, (Dimension 5150 & 8400) have been quite good. I don't like the 8400 though because the case un-hinges into a funny L shape and it's awkward.

The Dell-centric guys I work with don't like the older optiplex series (GX260 or so) that fold open sideways...plus the inside is a mess, drives are hard to get to and cabled weird (according to them).
I'd be willing to bet that home built PCs are actually better designed since they're aimed towards those that WOULD open them up and make frequent changes. My PC is quite easy to work on, the hard drives and optical drives have separate cages that unhook and come right out of the case (it's an Antec Home Theater PC case). OEM cases, on the other hand, are never meant to be opened by end users. I've disassembled PCs that required me to take off both sides and the front to get to a couple screws that would allow me to take a single hard drive out...now that's ridiculous. My Beige G3s, on the other hand, would pop open and fold out without a single screw. Same with the B&W G3s and the G4s, and the G5s too. Maximum of 1 screw to take out a hard drive.

[Y3a]

I've noticed TWO distinct types of PC users. The Business guy who gets a sensible PC, Office Pro etc, and never upgrades anything but the OS until he gets a virus or gets hammered by ad pop-ups. Usually it's for a small home type business, or construction contractor. The second type is the gamer, who are far younger and come in 2 varieties. PC saavy, and PC ignoramus who reads one or two articles and pretends to be a PC genius. The PC saavy guy may OWN a mac or Linux system and a server or two as well. The PC Ignoramus has usually one functional PC and several fried boxes from failed 'improvements' The PC Ignoramus is the kind to repeat lies about Macs and lots of other stuff too, being they don't actually KNOW very much. The Business guy may BECOME an Ignoramus by listening to another.

[seanc]

The Dell 5150 has slide out drive sleds etc. Only one side comes off which I think gives you access to all. The problem with OEM cases is the occasional need for OEM parts. My friends 5100 was fried in a lightning storm, hence a replacement 5150 under house insurance. The drives sit lengthways in the case and the sata and power connections are right behind the removable side panel. The Dell sata cable has a connector at a 90 degree angle to fit onto the hard drive and not stick out, the one I lent her to connect her old hard drive doesn't, so she currently can't put the side on her computer. And FWIW, the 5100 and 5150 are like the PowerMac G5s/Mac Pro, silent. The fans only rev up when needed, and the only time I've heard them is during the Dell hardware test.

I should correct what I said earlier to: it's only custom PCs (with cheap and nasty cases like mine) that have bad internal layouts. You can't put a HDD in one of the upper slots without a graphics card or cable getting in the way, it's just horrible.

[macintologist]

Sucks to be a Windows user

Ed Bott's Windows Expertise � Are you having Windows Genuine Advantage problems?

[seanc]

Originally Posted by macintologist

Sucks to be a Windows user

Ed Bott's Windows Expertise � Are you having Windows Genuine Advantage problems?

No, my copy of Windows is legal.

[vmarks]

Originally Posted by seanc

No, my copy of Windows is legal.

Legal, legitimate copies of Windows are reporting to the Genuine Advantage tool as illegitimate.

[seanc]

Originally Posted by vmarks

Legal, legitimate copies of Windows are reporting to the Genuine Advantage tool as illegitimate.

I know. Then the notification tool (which is technically spyware) spams you with pop ups and balloons telling you it's not legal. The Microsoft activation line seem friendly though Took 6 minutes and 32 seconds to Activate mine. (I didn't time it, my phone tells you how long you've wasted on the phone).

[C.A.T.S. CEO]

Originally Posted by Bandit240

Im at a Holiday Inn right now useing the Wi-Fi. When i checked in i asked if there was Wi-Fi or hookups in the rooms. The guy at the desk saw me set the Powerbook on the counter and said they do have Wi-Fi and ethernet hookups in the rooms, but none of it would work with a Mac. I kinda stood there, with a dumbassed look for a minute, then asked him how that is possible. He proceeds to tell me that Macs and PC's use different Wi-Fi signals, and a PC ethernet cord wont fit a Mac. Right there i opened the Powerbook and connected to the Wi-Fi, then asked him why it works. Oh you must have the new Windows Mac. Nope ive got an older 1ghz Powerbook running Tiger. He then trys to cover his ass by saying the hotel must have bought a router that does both Mac and PC. That was the end of my chat with him, and here i am a few hours later still online with my Powerbook.

Sometimes i just hate PC people.........

Same thing happend to me resently

[Tuoder]

I've encountered some Mac ignorance. The things is, it seems like the don't know anything about the linux world. It is usually gamers. Those people really have no reason to know anything about anything but Windows. Where the real stupidity comes in is when they act like they know something about it.

Originally Posted by Apfhex

That, and the look of OS X 10.0 with all of it's gum drops and lollipops (seriously, it was pretty toy-ish).

I find it funny that PC users can say that considering Windows XP uses the exact colour scheme that toy maker Fisher-Price uses in their packaging.

Originally Posted by Gossamer

Kind of like the MacBook 'wireless hack' scandal. The guy openly admitted he was frustrated with the 'Mac user smugness' so he used a third party wireless card AND drivers and claimed he'd hacked the MacBook.

What people don't repeat along with the wireless hack story is that the guy had to install a custom wireless driver to do the hack. Apple's stock driver didn't have the flaw.

[turtle777]

Originally Posted by hayesk

What people don't repeat along with the wireless hack story is that the guy had to install a custom wireless driver to do the hack. Apple's stock driver didn't have the flaw.

Pfff, these guys were attention whores, nothing else. Nobody should have listened to them in the first place.

-t

[mduell]

Originally Posted by what_the_heck

Well, yeah, PCs are far more fickle with WiFi. It really suxx. Never had problems with a Mac.

I just happen to be sitting on a college campus with two laptops right now.
The Dell D600 can detect and connect to several wifi networks. The 12" PowerBook can't see any networks and can't connect even when the SSID is specified.

[turtle777]

Originally Posted by mduell

I just happen to be sitting on a college campus with two laptops right now.
The Dell D600 can detect and connect to several wifi networks. The 12" PowerBook can't see any networks and can't connect even when the SSID is specified.

I can only speak for my iBook. I have never had problems in 5 1/2 years using the iBook to connect to any Wifi network.

My Dell on the other hand, don't even get me started. What a load of crap, having Win XP drivers and Dell WiFi drivers side by side, interfering with each other. It works one day, and the next day, I try the exact same thing, and it oesn't work. rebooting a couple of times might fix it, or not. WTF ?

-t

[SirCastor]

Originally Posted by mduell

I just happen to be sitting on a college campus with two laptops right now.
The Dell D600 can detect and connect to several wifi networks. The 12" PowerBook can't see any networks and can't connect even when the SSID is specified.

yeah, that's an issue with the casing more than anything. I was at the Apple store and one of the reps was trying to sell me on a MacBook rather than a MBP, and he showed me the two next to each other. The MB saw 6 or 7 networks, the MBP only saw 2 of them.

It's obnoxious, I like the case, I really do, but it shouldn't come at a sacrifice of the functionality.

[C.A.T.S. CEO]

Originally Posted by SirCastor

yeah, that's an issue with the casing more than anything. I was at the Apple store and one of the reps was trying to sell me on a MacBook rather than a MBP, and he showed me the two next to each other. The MB saw 6 or 7 networks, the MBP only saw 2 of them.

It's obnoxious, I like the case, I really do, but it shouldn't come at a sacrifice of the functionality.

I know, My iMac G5 saw only my network. My new BlackBook can see 2-6 networks around the neighborhood! w00t!

[kick52]

i hate PC users saying things like this:

"Oh yer, but they cant do games and stuff can they. They are like, crap, because my friend was using one and it froze, so they are really bad. *snort*"

i really wanna facemap those peope to guys in UT and f*ck 'em up rail bad with the Sniper Rifle.

[brokenjago]

Or maybe he said "They're". People are always making that mistake too. I hate people that can't spell properly when they're speaking.

[brokecollegestudentF04]

I was a pc user up until 3 weeks ago and switched.. My boyfriend is a total pc guy, complained the whole way into the apple store as I got my mini. He thinks that the mac is a useless toy. but yet I can do more with this thing than ive done in my entire life. I also go to college for computer science and my professor is a total peecee guy, I brought the mini into class and hes like what are the specs on that a 400mhz with 32mb of ram. At that point i snapped and hooked it up and im like Intel core duo faster than any of the junk windows boxes you have in here. I hate pc people there ignorance is insane. however i woke up at 3 am and found my bf on my mini playing around.. Im like caught ya. hes like uh i was just trying to install spyware protection on it. Of course i was pissed and I said theres no spyware out there for the mac. unlike your windoze box my mac is safe from that crap.. needless to say he slept on the couch