[drainyoo]

Or is a quick erase good enough?

[gorickey]

Quick will work just fine...

[Marook]

Originally posted by drainyoo:
Or is a quick erase good enough?

Quick Erase is fine.

[xi_hyperon]

I think (and someone correct me if I am wrong) that the option to zero the hard drive is there if you want to make sure that no one can recover old files from your previous setup. If you're not concerned about this, then a quick erase is good enough. Wait for someone here to confirm or deny this though.

P.S. - Hey! I'm a project manager, and I'm not so bad.

[drainyoo]

Thanks fellas.

Wouldnt the drive perform better when zeroed?

[timmerk]

No - it doesn't read "empty" space. Just re writes over, no matter if zeros or data is there.

[delete]

I have my hard drive partioned. So if I erase the partition with OSX and install Panther, what effect if any will it have that the Panther partition would have Journaling turned on (I think that's the default now) and the older non-erased partions would be normal HFS extended?

[michael_on_mac]

Originally posted by delete:
what effect if any will it have that the Panther partition would have Journaling turned on and the older non-erased partions would be normal HFS extended?

What would you expect?

Of course, r/w to the Panther partition will slow down a little, but access to your data will not see a difference. For obvious reasons, I wouldn't recommend putting the swap file on a journaling partition, in case you wonder about that too.

Michael.

[lacrymology]

Zeroing will not hurt, so why not? It may add a little extra time to the install, but who cares?
-m

[Eriamjh]

Technically, a drive is never "empty". It is either full of 1's, 0's, or a combination of the two.

Overwriting zeros with "data" isn't faster than overwriting 1's.

[delete]

Originally posted by michael_on_mac:
What would you expect?

Of course, r/w to the Panther partition will slow down a little, but access to your data will not see a difference. For obvious reasons, I wouldn't recommend putting the swap file on a journaling partition, in case you wonder about that too.

Michael.

Well the way I have things setup is that OSX/apps is on a Partition, my Photoshop swap is on another, and my home directory and all data is on another. I'm thinking now of just erasing it all and starting over. Maybe that's the cleanest solution.

[michael_on_mac]

Originally posted by delete:
I'm thinking now of just erasing it all and starting over. Maybe that's the cleanest solution.

Sounds good. My PB is so fresh, for me there's not much to erase anyway
So if your data is safe, and you have the time, I'd do it.

My partitioning scheme will be: 10 GB for the OS, 1 GB Swap (for OS), the remaining space for /Users and /Applications.

Michael.

[ryaxnb]

Just Archive & Install. No need to erase hd.

[stevesnj]

Originally posted by drainyoo:
Or is a quick erase good enough?

I did both for Jag..Archive and install and zero and zeroing is by far the best option but you obviously need to back up all your data and music. I had problems with archiving in Jag and will never do archive again. It left those little annoyances intact that a zeroing got rid of. The drawback...it took me 5 hours to zero my 40GB drive but worth it in the long run

[nobitacu]

I would Zero my HD out when I install Panther later on. Now, that's what I call a clean install.

Ming

[michael_on_mac]

Originally posted by nobitacu:
I would Zero my HD out when I install Panther later on. Now, that's what I call a clean install.

Ming

Sorry, but there is no point in that!.

Zeroing means overwriting the whole disk with zeros (or ones). Initializing / formatting / mkfs means putting up the logical structures on the disk so that the data can be found and zeroing the root directory (or node, or whatever, depending on the file system you use).

Now, when the OS writes data to a disk with no visible content (= there are no files/dirs in the root directory), it puts the data just whereever it likes, no matter what there was written before on the disk in that area. So as the former content (that cannot be accessed anyhow) is never read again, what the point in zeroing it???

Best,
Michael.

[Detrius]

Originally posted by michael_on_mac:
Sorry, but there is no point in that!.

Zeroing means overwriting the whole disk with zeros (or ones). Initializing / formatting / mkfs means putting up the logical structures on the disk so that the data can be found and zeroing the root directory (or node, or whatever, depending on the file system you use).

Now, when the OS writes data to a disk with no visible content (= there are no files/dirs in the root directory), it puts the data just whereever it likes, no matter what there was written before on the disk in that area. So as the former content (that cannot be accessed anyhow) is never read again, what the point in zeroing it???

Best,
Michael.

It's amazing how people just don't get it sometimes. It's like homeopathy. What's the point? It's just a placebo.

[RayX]

Originally posted by lacrymology:
Zeroing will not hurt, so why not? It may add a little extra time to the install, but who cares?
-m

lacrymology actually meant:

Zeroing will not hurt, so why not? It may add hours to the install, but who cares?

[CheesePuff]

I was going to zero my 60 GB 4200 RPM PowerBook G4 hard drive once, but I let it run for over an hour and it didn't seem to get anywhere so I stopped it, just reformatted the HD and installed Jaguar. Worked fine.

I will just do a simple reformat again with my now current Power Mac G4 machine when I get Panther tomorrow.

[iDaver]

Originally posted by michael_on_mac:
Now, when the OS writes data to a disk with no visible content (= there are no files/dirs in the root directory), it puts the data just whereever it likes, no matter what there was written before on the disk in that area. So as the former content (that cannot be accessed anyhow) is never read again, what the point in zeroing it???

Exactly. The only reason to zero a hard drive is if you're selling, giving or throwing it away. "Zeroing" is a security feature to prevent others from accessing old data. It serves no other purpose and would be a complete waste of time if you're just installing a new OS.

Reformatting is another thing entirely and it's a good idea to do it from time to time.

[Judge_Fire]

IIRC, in Disk Setup (OS 9) there was no separate 'format' option for remapping bad sectors, you had to use the 'zero' option to achieve that. A quick 'Initialize' wouldn't cut it.

http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=24764

Little indicates this behaviour has changed in OS X - anyone got some documentation?

J

[korn]

If you have the time and Back-up.. zeroing your HD wont do you any harm. It's like a spring cleaning.

[NeXTLoop]

Originally posted by Judge_Fire:
IIRC, in Disk Setup (OS 9) there was no separate 'format' option for remapping bad sectors, you had to use the 'zero' option to achieve that. A quick 'Initialize' wouldn't cut it.

http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=24764

Little indicates this behaviour has changed in OS X - anyone got some documentation?

J

Everything I've ever heard corroborates what you said. Zeroing the HD serves to map out bad sectors. So if you look at it that way, it's not a bad idea to do when you install major upgrades like Panther. You end up killing two birds with one stone.

[Sosa]

Slightly off topic here but what is the point of doing partitions?

[iDaver]

Originally posted by NeXTLoop:
Everything I've ever heard corroborates what you said. Zeroing the HD serves to map out bad sectors. So if you look at it that way, it's not a bad idea to do when you install major upgrades like Panther. You end up killing two birds with one stone.

I stand corrected. Thanks folks.

[iDaver]

I just got Panther this afternoon and upon doing an erase and install, it's going through a lengthy "checking installation disk" procedure which is taking close to 15 minutes. Could it be mapping bad sectors of the disk in the process? Anyone know what else it could be doing in these 15 minutes? A typical erase (reformat) usually takes mere seconds.

[michael_on_mac]

Originally posted by NeXTLoop:
Everything I've ever heard corroborates what you said. Zeroing the HD serves to map out bad sectors.

Yes - but: modern ATA drives correct (relocate) bad sectors on-the-fly. The zeroing process only assures that each and every sector is touched, so the drive is forced to do it now. But bad sectors do not just pop up and can be sorted out, it's more some kind of a slow decay within defective areas of the magnetic surface. Chances that you find all of them with one zeroing run are low, I fear.

So if you look at it that way, it's not a bad idea to do when you install major upgrades like Panther. You end up killing two birds with one stone.

One bird. The zeroing-for-a-nice-install-voodoo doesn't count

Michael.

[JonoG4]

Originally posted by iDaver:
I just got Panther this afternoon and upon doing an erase and install, it's going through a lengthy "checking installation disk" procedure which is taking close to 15 minutes. Could it be mapping bad sectors of the disk in the process? Anyone know what else it could be doing in these 15 minutes? A typical erase (reformat) usually takes mere seconds.

I always just click "skip" at that part. Haven't had a problem yet, but if you're drive is bad you could run into problems.

[vancenase]

panther CDs are in the mail ... so here's my question:

can you format/zero when doing a archive/install?

[Kwad]

Originally posted by xi_hyperon:
I think (and someone correct me if I am wrong) that the option to zero the hard drive is there if you want to make sure that no one can recover old files from your previous setup. If you're not concerned about this, then a quick erase is good enough. Wait for someone here to confirm or deny this though.

P.S. - Hey! I'm a project manager, and I'm not so bad.

*****You are right because when downloading Panther it does give the option to zero out your drive before installing because that is what i did before installing Panther.*****

[michael_on_mac]

Originally posted by iDaver:
I just got Panther this afternoon and upon doing an erase and install, it's going through a lengthy "checking installation disk" procedure which is taking close to 15 minutes. Could it be mapping bad sectors of the disk in the process? Anyone know what else it could be doing in these 15 minutes? A typical erase (reformat) usually takes mere seconds.

I skipped that too - if I remember correctly, the install software was scanning the CD in the drive on errors, right? Well, read errors on those CDs are pretty rare these days....

Michael.

[jgift]

I have a slightly used PB 17 1.5 and every time the install gets to Checking Your Installation Disk it freezes, whether at 10 or 60 percent, etc. I know the DVD Restore disks for 10.3.3 are good as were used on another PB 12 without trouble.

If skip this I get an install ok. Should I be worried? Is this a SuperDRive problem, or worse?

Once installed I can install from teh drive and watch movies, no problem.

Thanks.

[iDaver]

Originally posted by jgift:
If skip this I get an install ok. Should I be worried? Is this a SuperDRive problem, or worse?

I'd be a little worried and would probably want to use some other disk utility on it before using that disk for important data.

[jgift]

I'd be a little worried and would probably want to use some other disk utility on it before using that disk for important data.

I did a 45 min Surface Scan with Drive and it found no bad blocks, etc. I think the problem lies with the SuperDrive. Serious or not is the question...

I just noticed something though. After crashing yet again on Verification I rebooted into OSX and System Profiler ATA tab lost my DVD player settings. They were gone. I rebooted again and they were back and I could play DVD's again.

So, Verification is doing something to the drive when it checks so it shuts down and disappears from the OSX's view for a few reboots. Then all is ok.

SuperDrive problem??

The same DVD sails through Verification on my PB 12 to 100%.

[bmedina]

Originally posted by vancenase:
panther CDs are in the mail ... so here's my question:

can you format/zero when doing a archive/install?

No. How would the installer preserve your old data if it first has to erase it?

Zeroing will not hurt, so why not?

Praying to the sun god while standing on your head doesn't hurt, so why not?

Your logic doesn't make sense.

[Chuckit]

Originally posted by bmedina:
No. How would the installer preserve your old data if it first has to erase it?


Praying to the sun god while standing on your head doesn't hurt, so why not?

Your logic doesn't make sense.

You realize you're responding to two year-old posts, right? Jgift resurrected this thread with a completely irrelevant post, for whatever reason.

Anyway, yes, jgift's problem most likely is his Superdrive.

[iDaver]

Originally posted by Chuckit:
You realize you're responding to two year-old posts, right? Jgift resurrected this thread with a completely irrelevant post, for whatever reason.

Anyway, yes, jgift's problem most likely is his Superdrive.

No doubt he did a search and tried to come up with a relevant topic. You just can't win in these forums. Start a new thread and you're criticized for that too.

[jgift]

Well, the thread had wondered into Checking Installation Disks and so I thought to tag on since someone was actually talking about what I was experiencing. Sorry about net etiquette.

[Chuckit]

Originally posted by iDaver:
No doubt he did a search and tried to come up with a relevant topic. You just can't win in these forums. Start a new thread and you're criticized for that too.

When has somebody ever been criticized for not resurrecting a year-old thread? Yes, you should search before you ask a question, and there shouldn't be multiple concurrent threads on the same topic, but I don't think anybody's ever suggested that starting a new thread is necessarily bad.

Anyway, I didn't mean to harp on jgift. I was just expressing confusion.

[CharlesS]

Originally posted by michael_on_mac:
Yes - but: modern ATA drives correct (relocate) bad sectors on-the-fly. The zeroing process only assures that each and every sector is touched, so the drive is forced to do it now. But bad sectors do not just pop up and can be sorted out, it's more some kind of a slow decay within defective areas of the magnetic surface. Chances that you find all of them with one zeroing run are low, I fear.

All I know is that when I tried installing Panther on my Pismo, the first couple of times I just formatted the drive, and the install failed. What's more, on reboot, the disk would be unmountable, each time. Zeroed the drive, then the format stuck, so the disk would actually be mountable and I was able to install OS X on it. So apparently not all problems are fixed on the fly...

[- - e r i k - -]

Originally posted by bmedina:
Praying to the sun god while standing on your head doesn't hurt, so why not?

Your logic doesn't make sense. [/B]

Unfortunally "The it doesn't hurt"-mentality is what drives people to pay money for sh^t like homeophatic "medicine".

[Xeo]

Asking a problem when a search could answer it is a far cry from resurrecting old threads instead of starting new ones.

I would say that posting a new thread is better than resurrecting. The information could be out of date and not follow the topic correctly. Plus people end up reading a lot of useless information to get to the new post. If the old thread doesn't answer your question and you need more information, post a new thread, maybe even link to the old thread to say "this kinda deals with my problem, but..."

I would define resurrecting as posting in threads with no activity in the last month or so. Posting in a thread from a few days ago is not bad, nor is it resurrecting.

But that's just my opinion and is not necessarily the MacNN stance. I do moderate this forum, though, so keep that in mind.

As for zeroing your drive, the computer does not care if it is writing over all 0's or a combination of 0's and 1's. A quick erase will make the drive just as usable as zeroing.